By Dave Moore (193.165.192.176 - 193.165.192.176) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 06:56 pm:

Hi all,

I have a rather vague question that someone may be able to answer for me. I heard a story a couple of years ago that Yvonne Vernee nearly ended up with the Supremes after Barbara Martin left. Can anyone verify this? Are there any records of her recording with either the Primettes or the Supremes?
Imagine Sonny Sanders, Robert Bateman working with Yvonne Vernee, Florance Ballard, and Mary Wilson. The world would be a different place!!!

Regards,

Dave

By John Lester (213.1.167.144 - 213.1.167.144) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 10:49 pm:

The phrase "wishful thinking" comes to mind...

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 11:55 am:

Actually Robert Bateman and Sonny Sanders did work (indirectly?) with Yvonne. She was the lead singer of a group called The Donays who recorded "Devil In His Heart" that was recorded at Correc-tone. It was leased to Brent, a New York label.
She then had her solo career at Sonbert/Correc-tone. SonBert refers to SONny and RoBERT. I think her "Just Like You Did Me" was written by Tony Clark.
Graham

By Dave Moore (193.165.192.155 - 193.165.192.155) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 08:37 am:

Hi Graham,

I have copies of her Sonbert and Brent releases. Do you know what happened to her?

Regards,

Dave

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 02:19 am:

She 's still in Detroit.
She joined the (Motown) Elgins and toured the UK when their "Put Yourself In My Place" was reisued in the early 1970s(?). I remember seeing her at a local (Lincolnshire) RAF camp - back in the days when a lot of American artists would perform at these venues, when security was less of an issue. She broke dpown in tears at the response of the crowd.
She also had a release on Correc-tone around 1965 - Do you have a copy of that too?
Graham

By Dave Moore (193.165.192.156 - 193.165.192.156) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 09:21 am:

Thanks Graham,
I'm a bit gutted that she was here in the 70s and I missed it! I am missing the Correc-tone 45 and her other release on Sonbert 3475. Talking of RAF camps. I remember when the US Air force used to be entertained in UK by the likes of Jr Walker, Little Anthony, Coasters etc in the 70s. All for a quid in! Ah happy days! So the rumour that Yvonne was in line for Barbara Martins slot with the Supremes is just a rumour?

Thanks for the info.

Regards,

Dave

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 03:39 am:

Dave, I don't know anything about Yvonne becoming a Supreme back in the 1960s. I've spoken to her on the phone a few times - but not for a few years - we planned to meet to discuss her career in detail, but somehow it never happened. I'll contact her to see what she says.
There was also a Correc-tone recording by Laura Johnson released on Brent. Do you have it - or have you ever heard it?
Graham

By Dave Moore (193.165.192.144 - 193.165.192.144) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 08:48 pm:

Graham,
It would be interesting to know if Yvonne ever actually sang with the Supremes, even if never recorded. I don't know the Laura Johnson 45. To be honest, I sort of drifted into the Detroit stuff through the northern scene. It sort of crept up on me. I have most of the larger label catalogues Carla/Karen/Golden World/Wingate/Motown etc. almost complete on Demos, but the more obscure stuff I am still learning about. It sort of revived my collecting habits a few years ago. Needless to say it has now become an obsession as far as the vinyl is concerned. Couple of 'Big Ticket' have proved elusive: Al Williams on Palmer, JT Rythm on Palmer, Narbay on Impact are three that I need. As Chuck Jackson said 'Good things come to those who wait!!'
Regards,

Dave

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 09:45 am:

Dave, I've never heard the Laura Johnson 45 either.
Another "Correc-tone" recording which I think you'll like is Marva Josie's "Later For You Baby/You Lied" - released on Time (NY), which may - or may not - be connected to the Brent label.
Do you know Wilson Pickett's "Let Me Be Your Boy/My Heart Belongs To You" which was the first Correc-tone release? It was also released on Cub, and later Verve. Both great sides!
I've been told that it's The Supremes singing on this disc and also Gino Washington's early 45 "I'm A Coward" - this is according to Gino. But when I asked Robert Bateman, he said it was The Andantes. I once interviewed Louvaine Demps (Andantes) and she couldn't remember singing on anything for Wilson Pickett.
Popcorn told me that Mary Wilson lived on 12th Street - across from the 1st Correc-tone studio and hung out there, so it's possible that The Supremes did background singing on those 45s. I'll ask Yvonne if she knows anything about it as I'm sure she would also have been hanging around the studio.
I used to have the Patti Young and Nabay 45s, but sold them. They're not for me. I've sent David a scan of the Ernstrat 45 and could also send a copy of Nabay if you want to take a look. I think Bob Babbit had a hand in writing it. The Al Williams was also released on Labeat. It'll cost you a lot to get a copy!
Cheers, Graham

By Dave Moore (193.165.192.186 - 193.165.192.186) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 06:45 pm:

Graham,
Cheers mate. The Supremes/Yvonne rumour is not quashed quite yet then! Thanks for the info on the Marva Josie 45, I will add it to my wants list. the offer of a scan of Narbay is very generous but I will pass mate. I WILL get the Impact catalogue completed! I have Al Williams on LaBeat (Issue only I'm afraid), but would love to own the Palmer Demo. Ah well, the search continues............

regards,

Dave

By John Lester (213.122.190.200 - 213.122.190.200) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 02:41 pm:

That is intersting what you said about the Supremes being on that Wilson Pickett 45...which track is it or is it both...where can I get to hear these songs...

There is a Wilson Picket 45 on UK President that I have in my collection and ONE side of that COULD be a Supremes backing.....I need to dig that one out..to remind myself

But Yvonne nearly a Supreme! I wait with bated breath....

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 02:26 am:

What I've been told is that The Supremes were on Gino Washington's "I'm A Coward/Puppet On A String" and also Wilson Pickett's "Let Me Be Your Boy/My Heart Belongs to You" I can't say that this is true - I'm not sure that it is.
The Gino Washington sides were later re-recorded and released on Correc-tone (or is it Sonbert?)and Ric-Tic (called "Gino Is A Coward"). This is the version that was something of a hit and some of The Debonaires are backing on this version.
The Supremes would be backing on both sides of the Wilson Pickett 45 as they were recorded at the same session. It was first released on Correc-tone, then nationally by Cub, and later on Verve.
Cheers, Graham

By John Lester (213.122.202.99 - 213.122.202.99) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 05:00 am:

Thanks Graham..

I have to admit that I have my doubts about hearing Diana Ross doing backing vocals for ANY artist who was on a similar or lower rung of the success ladder in the early 60's...so this should be interesting.

By Davie Gordon (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 02:23 pm:

Can't add much to this one except to say that
the Time and Brent labels were both owned by the same man, Bob Shad. There are a few compilations
of Brent / Time material on Ace but I'd have to check to see exactly what's on them

Davie Gordon

By Fury13 (64.79.86.127 - 64.79.86.127) on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 05:49 pm:

The Ace-issued Time/Brent CDs look pretty good to me. "Rockin' on Broadway" is the name of one of them, I believe.

Which "Coward" record by Gino Washington was the hit? The uptempo one with prominent guitar or the slower one with the horns and the "Gino is a coward" chorus by the background singers? Who ran Sonbert?

What label did "Out of This World" (Gino again) come out on? What a sound on that record! Primitive mix, muddy vocals, but what energy.

By acooolcat (211.78.0.219 - 211.78.0.219) on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 11:04 pm:

I haven't seen/heard those Ace CDs but will check them out.
The second version is called "Gino Is A Coward" and was a (minor national) hit when released on the Ric-Tic label. It has the same RCA matrix number as the one on Correc-tone (or is it SonBert?) and is obviously the same disc with a different label. The owner of Golden World (Ed Wingate) was funding some of the Correc-tone recordings at the time.
The first version is called "I'm A Coward" and Sonbert was a subsidary of Correc-tone. The owner (Wilbur Golden) let Sonny Sanders and Robert Bateman start it as he couldn't afford to pay them much.
I think Gino's "Out Of This World" came out on the local Amon label and was then picked up by Wand.

By Fury13 (64.79.87.29 - 64.79.87.29) on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 01:28 am:

Thanks acoool...

Funny, the one called "I'm A Coward" has the recurring "Gino is a coward" chorus by the background singers, but the one entitled "Gino Is A Coward" only has the line repeated a couple times at the end. Seems like the titles should be switched. So if I read you right, the more rocking one was the hit. And the band was Jeff and the Atlantics?

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 07:05 am:

Yes, that's right,the 2nd version has The Atlantics backing him. I think Gino used them on a few of his recordings.
The first one was a Correc-tone production, but after local radio DJs didn't like it Gino went and did his own thing. He also re-recorded the flip - Puppet On A String - but this is much closer to the original version.
Gino also released this on his own label, named something like Do-De-Re.
Have you heard Bruce Springsteen (?) singing "Gino Is A Coward" ?
Graham

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17 - 12.2.196.17) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:28 pm:

No, I haven't! I'll have to check that out!

Gino still performs locally on occasion, from what I've heard.

By Julian (205.188.198.36 - 205.188.198.36) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 07:05 pm:

Wow, I just recieved my Gino comp cd the other day! What a coincidence that you guys bring him up!

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17 - 12.2.196.17) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 08:03 pm:

Gino is an underrated talent, in my opinion. Some of his records remind me of Gary U.S. Bonds ("Out Of This World," "Come Monkey With Me") and others sound like mid-'60s Motown ("Romeo"). "Now You're Lonely" is just plain infectious.

His later stuff has a Norman Whitfield-era Motown atmosphere, I think.

By Ade (193.129.220.205 - 193.129.220.205) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 03:44 am:

First of all, David, this site just goes from strength to strength. A big thanks for your time, and also to everybody who's contributing to the forum. Fascinating reading.
Gino is indeed still touring regularly (he went though a bit of a "stripped down" period a few years back where he was only playing small clubs, and insisting on a blues approach of either accapella songs or accompanied by a guitar). I managed to catch one of these shows (and have a cd "souvenir") and i can tell you he can still "cut the mustard", believe me. Underrated definitely. His contribution to our scene is often overlooked. i think he's playing in Glasgow in the New Year David, at the Barrowlands.

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 04:15 am:

Are we talking about the same Gino?
When I spoke to him in Detroit he was a bit peeved that a guy in the UK had stolen his name - Geno Washington and the Ram Jam Band. I don't think the "real" Gino has ever been to the UK.
Graham

By Ade (193.129.220.205 - 193.129.220.205) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 04:46 am:

oops! I did say I was a newcomer! Sorry. it was the "other" Geno!!

By John Lester (213.122.198.87 - 213.122.198.87) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 07:14 am:

Geno Washington and the Ram Jam Band..my my my

That brings back memories of some 30 odd years ago...they used to play all the Motown hits when I saw them perform.

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.7.41.156 - 62.7.41.156) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 08:51 am:

don't worry ade there can't be anyone in the uk who hasn't fallen for that one at some stage.

i also recall seeing my first ric tic discography in the early seventies and thinking... how did that sandie shaw crap get on there.

anyway, i finally heard 'puppet on a string' by gino a couple of months ago, and thanks to graham as it happens.

it's not northern soul but it's hypnotic. fabulous music.

By John Lester (213.122.200.58 - 213.122.200.58) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 09:13 pm:

David

THAT WAS FUNNY!

As it happens, I used to go to the same school as Sandie Shaw aka Sandra Goodrich.....in those days, none of us would admit it - Sandie was unhip...we were all into the Tops, Temps, Vandellas, Supremes, the Miracles, Anthony and the Imperials, Aretha, Drifters...and Paul Peterson...oops!

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 09:40 pm:

john
are you featured in manifesto this month?

that paul petersen 45 on motown1129 blows me away
'you're love's got me burnin' alive'

By acooolcat (211.78.0.219 - 211.78.0.219) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 11:45 pm:

I'll bring this posting full circle and ask a question about one of Yvonne's songs.
I recently played back an interview I did a while ago with a songwriter named Ron Davis; he wrote the two Gino sides we've discussed (Coward & Puppet). He mentioned that he also wrote Yvonnes's Correc-tone release "So Much In Love" and said it was also called "I'm In Love." This latter title was released on the flip of Yvonne's "Just Like You Did Me" on the Sonbert label, so I wonder if it's the same recording but with a different title. Has anyone got both 45s that they can play and compare for me? Another song he said he wrote was Danny Woods' "You Had Me Fooled" but I'm sure Ron's name isn't on the record label. Very mysterious.
Have a great Christmas everyone!
Cheers, Graham