By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 11:00 pm:

one of the most dynamic productions on the northern soul scene (well that's what i think) and the man is a regular on soulfuldetroit. we are indeed priveleged. what were "bad bag production's" bobby? and who owned "compass"?

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.178 - 205.188.199.178) on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 12:04 am:

David,
Thanks for the compliment!
When I was a teenager in 1966, three mates of mine, Jeff Prusan, Ross Matico (Bud Ross)
and Erwin(Earl)Gripman got together and put up a hard earned $500 a piece and formed BADBAG PRODUCTIONS. We has some cards made with logo of a musical staff with those letters being notes on the musical scale.Hence the name.
Our publishing company was called MEAN GROOVE MUSIC. First we recorded a group that I had known called The Three Strangers, who were Salome Bey,
Melvin Wright and Ike (forgot his last name)
We did four songs at 919 studios "Why did you do it to me" "I'm not the one" "Run to my lovin arms" and one more which I forgot.
We made the rounds of NYC companies and finally Juggy Murray at Sue Records tok a liking to Why did you do it to me and released it b/w I'm not the one on his subsidiary Broadway .
It was in the Impressions mode.
Juggy changed the name of the group to
The Thieves, his reasoning being that they will steal all the young girls' hearts!

Ross had a used car lot in Germantown on Wayne avenue. We used to meet there in the tiny office to rehearse our acts. One Saturday afternoon, we noticed a young man looking at a car with his girlfriend. There was music being piped outside
and the young man was singing along. We went outside to take a listen and he ws quite good. The song was Try a little tenderness by Otis Redding. So we invited him in and I took out my guitar and asked him to sing some songs that he knew. He sang Stand by me, A change is gonna come and When something's wrong with my baby.
We asked him his name and he said "James Bunting"
Through his drawl we thought he said "James Bounty" and that is what he became, because it had kind of a southern flair to it.
So we put up another $500 a piece with our advance money from Juggy Murray and went into Cameo- Parkway studios and recorded "Prove yourself a lady b/w "Life will begin again" which had a "down south" vibe about it.
Karl Chambers was on drums, Roland Chambers and myself played guitars, Win Wilford was on bass,
and Leon Mitchell was on piano, and he also notated the horn parts that I dictated to him.
he backing vocals were done by The Universals and The Mello-Moods/Swans.
Technically I was the producer but we all believed in the democratic approach and did not want to single out any one person.
We went to NYC again and upon recommendation from Jimmy Wisner, who at that time was Tamiko Jones'
romantic partner and arranged for Len Barry,
we went to Compass records which was owned by
Michael (Mickey) Kapp) the son of Dave Kapp of Kapp records although it was not a subsidiary.
He loved it, made a deal on the spot and it became the first r&b and pop charted record that I ever had! Boy was I proud.
For a follow up Mickey wanted us to do Rags to riches allthough it was not a favorite of ours. It was political. The flip was Action speaks louder than words.
I will forward a rare picture of James when I return to Philly.

In 1986 I was at Lillie Yard Studios in Fulham
and I heard a voice calling "Bobby, Bobby Eli, are you up there I must meet you, you have a hit record"!!!!
I thought "what is he talking about"?
Anyway he said that it was "Prove yourself a lady" I said that was in 1967!!I must have been a time warp!!
Anyway the bloke was Ian Levine and he explained the whole Northern thing to me and the rest as they say is a mystery!!!!

Eli

By Ian W (194.75.128.2 - 194.75.128.2) on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 07:51 am:

Bobby

This site is worth it just for that one message! 'Prove Yourself A Lady' is the epitome of northern soul. If I had a hat, I would take it off to you! Thanks a million. Did 'Rags To Riches' get released? I don't know that one.

Ian

By Soultwine (195.93.32.173 - 195.93.32.173) on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 11:11 am:

Ian
yes - it was the flip to "Action speaks louder than words" Compass 7011 and its pretty good -i've never liked the song particularly but its almost unrecognisable-midtempo with a nice sax solo.The other side is best for me though with a better vocal overall.
Bobby
i'm looking forward to seeing that pic!.
Can you remember who the girls were on on "Prove
yourself.." . "And if i change my ways for you baby" ..they sound so cute!.
Do you know if the early seventies "reissue" was legit.?.
Phil

By phillysoulman (64.12.107.47 - 64.12.107.47) on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 01:50 pm:

When I first produced "Prove Yourself A Lady"
I had no idea that it would be thought of with such a degree of reverence in later years.
James wsa, in my opinion a very good artist but taking into consideration some extenuating circumstances which prevailed at the time, he was never developed to his fullest potential.
On Prove yourself.... we had total control of all aspects of production ie, the studio, musicians, songs, because it was "our baby".
With follow up, we were at the mercy of Compass records whose management was more in a conservative direction.
Prove yourself... was done in a more"Grittier" studio,Cameo-Parkway, where the follow up was done in Bell Sound in NYC at the choice of the company.
Because Jimmy Wisner originally hooked us up with Compass, we reluctantly and politically had to let him arrange the follow up, which, in my opinion was too polished by comparison, and lacked the "grit" of Prove yourself..
We did not want to record a pop standard. We were soulboys at heart and it was against our better judgement, but politics prevented us from having the final say in the matted. Needless to say ,James became a bit disillusioned by al of this and went on to record for Red Dog,
and went "into the frying pan, out of the fire" so to speak. The backing girls were Jean and Tina Thomas, better known in varios incarnations as The Swans, on Swan records and The Mello- Moods on North Bay. They were also on 123, by Len Barry, and on tons of Cameo- Parkway songs.

And oh yes, the "reissue" was a bootleg.

Eli

By phillysoulnan (64.12.107.47 - 64.12.107.47) on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 02:00 pm:

Please forgive the typos, it is the coffee!

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 05:17 am:

Hi Bobby,
Was "Run To My Lovin' Arms" the same song that Lenny Welch recorded? I figured it might be, since Lenny also did a version of "Rags to Riches".

Re: The Three Strangers -- is this the same group that recorded for ABC-Paramount? The record I have by them does sound very much like the Impressions.

Great story Bobby -- as usual!

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By phillysoulman (152.163.204.188 - 152.163.204.188) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 11:41 am:

Yes the Three Strangers were the same group that were on ABC. They also, believe it or not had a one off single for Mercury under the name of the Bums called of all things Bummidy Bum.(sp)Run to my lovin arms was not the Lenny Welch song.
Incidently, Salome Bey(his real name) is currently fronting a Reggae band!!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 11:42 am:

Bobby

Your story about the discovery of James Bounty sounds like something Hollywood might invent in their never-ending desire to "improve" upon history. Just goes to show how life can mimic art! Great record too. I bet you never dreamed back then that people might still be talking about it in the next Millennium, let alone still enjoying it!

By phillysoulman (152.163.204.188 - 152.163.204.188) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 12:07 pm:

Hey Ritchie, You are so spot on.
James wasn't even a professional singer at all. He just , as luck would have it, was at the right place at the right time. He was amazed that we even though that much of him and thought that it was some sort of gag as on "Candid Camera!!!!!
He could have easily gone down south to be a deep soul kind of singer for he had it in him.
Incidently, around that time we found a guy who we called "Just Joe" who we were trying to do a deep soul thing with but he lost interest in becoming a singer.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 07:38 pm:

bobby
if only every soul record could have it's story in print.

fantastic detail..thanks a million.

i look forward to seeing the photo.

any idea what happened to james?

By phillysoulman (205.188.197.179 - 205.188.197.179) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 03:03 am:

No one seems to know his whereabouts, although there are some leads that I will follow up on as soon as I get back to Philly.We have to put Sherlock on that one!!!!!!

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 03:47 am:

Bobby,
Good to hear you mention the Swans. It seems every major city had a girl group that appeared anonymously on dozens of soul records (here in Miami it was the Marvells featuring Annette Snell).

In a way it's a shame that the Swans are best remembered in this country for a Beatles novelty.
Well, at least Leon Huff received a co-writer's credit for "The Boy With The Beatle Hair".

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By phillysoulman (152.163.197.56 - 152.163.197.56) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 12:20 pm:

Jeff,
The other swans record was He's Mine on Swan.
They were also The Mello-Moods on North Bay with Tell love hello. In fact Jean Thomas was the girlfriend of Melvin Wright of The Thieves/Three Strangers. Probably still is!!!!

By phillysoulman (64.12.102.161 - 64.12.102.161) on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 05:04 pm:

The male backing group on Prove yourself a lady were the Universals. They had a record that I did about the same time called "New lease on life"/bw
"Without friends", on the Open label. Does anyone know of it??

By phillysoulman (64.12.107.49 - 64.12.107.49) on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 07:26 pm:

As I write this post the annual St. Patrick's day parade is marching past our Brooklyn flat, complete with many bagpipe brigades!!
This year it is even more poignant due to 9/11 and the loss of many people of Irish heritage.
So happy St. Patrick's day to all my Irish brethren. I think that I will go over to Kentish Town for a little nip!!

By John Lester (213.122.197.4 - 213.122.197.4) on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 09:09 pm:

Bobby....you certainly know London.....!!!

LOL

By phillysoulman (152.163.207.196 - 152.163.207.196) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 06:24 am:

Been there MANY times, and fancied moving there at one point.I have always felt a strong kinship with Britain as I have always felt that I have lived there in another lifetime. For a time I knew London better than Philly and found myself getting into the "wrong " side of the car and driving on the "wrong" side of the road and using "Britishisms" in conversation!! One time while using the Philly underground(which we call the subway) I found myself looking for the Bakerloo line!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 08:22 am:

I think Ken Livingstone has ruled out any plans to extend the Underground to Philadelphia.

This was probably in Jeffrey Archer's campaign when he was running for Mayor of London ;o)

By Ian W (213.122.9.56 - 213.122.9.56) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 10:54 pm:

Bobby, I only live a couple of hundred miles away from London but you know it much better than I do. They have an underground now?

By Eli (205.188.192.58 - 205.188.192.58) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:53 pm:

One day I was on the way to enter Victoria station
on the way to West Wickham, Kent and just as I was about to enter the police barricaded the enterance because of a bomb threat(pictures at eleven)

By John Lester (213.122.197.117 - 213.122.197.117) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:28 pm:

Bobby ...

I dont want to put you off of London......that happens a lot these days.

It's a bit scary where ever you are these days.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:38 pm:

You should come to the quiet and peaceful city of Lincoln.. though there is the slight danger someone might throw a potato at you.

By drums (208.251.209.82 - 208.251.209.82) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:28 pm:

Bobby Eli is Irish???

Come on!!! He is a soul brotha fo' Real!! Anyway, I can only hope that you write a book on the memories that only you have lived through!! You have done things in your life that most people would have dreamed of doing!!

There has got to be a way for these guys to turn off the computers and get to playing for a major audience!!

Talking is one thing doing is another!! Will someone pay these guys to get together for one concert!!!



Dm

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:33 pm:

Dm,
I'm kicking around a few ideas where this could possibly happen.The future could be interesting.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:51 pm:

Ralph

If it's half as interesting as the present, I can't wait!!

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.43 - 205.188.199.43) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:52 pm:

Top o'the mornin' to ye' mates! I've just 'ad me
scones 'n jam an' a cuppa. I am ready to tackle ye olde forum.
In actuality, I am a human chameleon and I transform myself into which ever social group I am with at any given moment.It is a genetic defect!!!

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:58 pm:

Ritchie,
I suppose we are all endowed with specific gifts in life. I've always done well with managing things. I'm beginnng to see things here that have piqued my managerial tendencies. You never know what can come of it.

By eli (205.188.199.43 - 205.188.199.43) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:04 pm:

They don't call it genITALIA for nothing!!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:04 pm:

Ralph

We await with bated breath :o)

Bobby

Some of us have been up for hours ;o)
(It's 3 pm here)

By Eli (205.188.199.43 - 205.188.199.43) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:07 pm:

I am the opposite of the reincarnation of Rip Van Winkle. I will sleep when I get to the big disc in the sky. For now I will continue the mission to protect the groove.

By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 04:52 pm:

I am pleased to say the The Northern Soul of Philadelphia volume 3 is about to be released by Goldmine featuring three James Bounty songs , two never before released Thieves songs and many other philly gems ,some by yours truly.
Look out for it.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:03 pm:

Good news, Bobby. I'll keep a look-out (especially because vols 1 & 2 have been such good sellers for me!) ;o)

By Dave Fleming (62.253.128.5 - 62.253.128.5) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 05:08 pm:

Bobby...The "Three Strangers" group you were going on about,i have a 45 by the "Three Strangers" called
"Find my baby"on "Frantic records"out of Philly,
would this be the same group?.
Cheers
Dave f....

By Dave Fleming (62.253.128.5 - 62.253.128.5) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 05:35 pm:

Repost as i dont think this went to forum list?

Hi Bobby, I have a 45 by the "Three Strangers"
called "Find my baby" on "Frantic" records out of
Philly,are these the same group that you were on
about?.
Cheers
Dave f...

By no stranger (64.12.106.44 - 64.12.106.44) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 10:07 pm:

Afirmative, indeed!!

By billy from philly (68.81.16.221 - 68.81.16.221) on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 05:05 pm:

bobby,whatever happened to your two friends erwin gripman&jeff prusan,the aspiring singers?

By Eli (152.163.197.182 - 152.163.197.182) on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 09:24 pm:

Yo Billy! Wassup bro??
Long time no hear from whatch been doin'?
Jeff is living in L.A., as far as I know and Erwin has an auto upholstery buisness in Philly and Bud Ross is themain guy at Faulkner Cadillac up on the Boulevard. When I get ready to buy my Escalade, as all brothers do these days, I will get it from him!!
BTW.. Check out the Northern Soul of Philadelphia vol. 3 and al of our stuf is on there.

Eli