|By cl (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:57 pm:|
Although it may be unimportant to others here, on this forum I know this will be understood.Glory stealers are those jive ass west coast/east coast musicians(carol kaye,Bernard Purdie etc)who claim to be on the old motown recordings.The story goes something like this:tapes were sent to LA or Nyc to be done over by these hot shot studio pro's.This is so much garbage.When the likes of James Jamerson and Benny Benjamin and Earl Van Dyke are available........well I think you all get the story.What does not get told is some of the recordings Van dyke,jamerson, et,al detroiters were on that were not motown label recordings.The sad thing is that Kaye and Purdie are fine musicians with great legacies in soul and pop music.I suppose I understand the need (ego) to want to be associated with these great records.But because they are well known amongst afficianado's they are able to spread these falsities thru magazines, etc.And that is sad because James Jamerson and Bennie Benjamin and Earl Van dyke were the guys who gave motown it's sound and they are all but forgotten.
|By John Lester (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 06:58 am:|
I am not sure the likes of Benny, James, Earl Van Dyke, Robert White will ever be forgotten. In fact, it's outlets like this web site which make sure that errors are put right. That is why we need to support it!
The Carol Kaye saga has gone on for years but there is a HUGE following for James Jamerson and I am sure his work will never be allowed to be passed over. And I am mighty glad of that.
I personally have made it my life's work to make sure that ALL the producers, engineers and back room staff get their just dues. Check out recent Motown compilations...Harry W put more than HDH on the Tops box set - producers Marv Johnson, Hank Cosby, Smokey etc are also represented.
|By david, glasgow, scotland (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 07:34 am:|
i asked carol kaye if she would allow me to introduce soulfuldetroit through her forum.
she replied that she 'did not think it was appropriate right now'.
|By CL (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 05:07 pm:|
That is interesting david! John Lester thank god for you.
|By maredda (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 07:14 pm:|
I concur. When I first heard about the Carol Kaye saga, I just thought "WHATEVER." James Jamerson was the bass king, I don't think anyone would dispute that. To hear of such wild allegations to the contrary would be fallacious! The Funk Brothers are the Kings of Instrumental Soul, and that's an objective fact.
|By Dave Moore (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 03:53 pm:|
The true legacy of genius will always show through. The talent of James Jamerson, Benny Benjamin, Earl van Dyke, Sonny Sanders, Robert Bateman, Robert White, Dave Hamilton, Dennis Coffey, Mike Terry, George Clinton, Richard Wylie, Russ and Ralph Terrano etc, (Oh to be a Detroiter buying records in 1966!)was unbelievable. The fact that this talent managed to "congregate" in one place is even more unbelievable. The fact that we are still searching, discussing and collecting their music is testament to their immense talent. As "someone" once said "it's what's in the goove that counts" and the grooves in question, as far as James, Benny, Earl and the gang are concerned are full of their "soul" and could never be passed off as anything else!
|By david, glasgow, scotland (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 07:53 pm:|
the list of musicians who worked at motown is nothing short of incredible.
|By Ralph Terrana (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 10:21 pm:|
WOW Dave,No one has EVER referred to me as a genius!!
|By John Lester (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 07:01 am:|
When the cap fits..WEAR IT!
|By Ralph Terrana (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 02:29 pm:|
Well then I must say I'm flattered John. Thank you.
|By Dave Moore (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 07:14 pm:|
The name of Terra-Shirma on a record is a sure sign of quality. The pleasure you have helped to give fans this side of the "pond" (and now beginning to be recognised on your side), is huge. You guys have played a major part in some of our lives and for that sir, please take a bow!
|By Ralph terrana (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 10:13 pm:|
Thank you so much for the kind words.I was fortunate to have extremely talented people working for me. The whole focus of the entire staff was to make Tera Shirma as good as it could possibly be. Now all these years down the line and I'm learning our dreams had been realised. I find this all very humbleing.
|By daverimmer (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 10:59 pm:|
Your dreams became our dreams Ralph.
It's just such a shame that it's nearly 40 years ago and so many of those great musicians are now dead. The vast majority of them will never know how much their work was appreciated by a bunch of nutters over here.
I think it's only now, with the accessibility of the internet making communication so easy over groups of people on either side of the Atlantic that the musicians and arrangers, and producers, as opposed to the artists, are actually becoming aware of how much their work was, and still is appreciated.
You, and others like you created a sound, and feel, that was instantly identifiable as DETROIT. It's intrigued, fascinated, and frustrated me for so many years now that I don't think I (Or probably any of the other fans on this forum) will ever be able to give it up.
And for that I thank you.
|By Ralph Terrana (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:24 am:|
Well Dave, if I can speak for all those who can no longer speak for themselves, a heartfelt..you are welcome.
|By acooolcat (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:45 am:|
Ralph, one of the guys that we Brits idolize is Mike Terry. He's living in Detroit but unfortunately doesn't want to dwell on the past and talk about his work.
What can you remember about his contribution to the Detroit sound? He played Bari' sax on a lot of sessions, but to me his arrangements make so much difference to the quality of the recording. Any memories or comments?
|By Andy Rix (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:34 pm:|
Ralph ..any memories of 'The Gallop' by Milton Wright & The Terra Shirma Strings ?? One of my fave band tracks ever .. those strings are incredible
|By Ralph Terrana (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 01:08 am:|
Mike was one of the major players in the Detroit music scene. A gifted musician and a talented arranger/producer. Mike is kind of a quiet guy. Slightly on the serious side.At least this is how I saw him from my perspective in the studios.At any rate he was definitely a guy you would instantly like. I'm sure he has his reasons for keeping the past to himself.It would seem to fit his personality.
|By Ralph Terrana (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 01:12 am:|
You jogged something loose here. I do remember something with Tera Shirma Strings attached to it, but I sure don't remember what that was about or why it had the name Tera Shirma.If anyone knows the story on this one, I'd be interested to hear it.
|By Dave Moore (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 06:16 pm:|
The record Andy is refering to is:
The Gallop-Milton Wright & the Terra Shirma Strings - Carla 19002. A vocal version was also released under the title - I belong to you on the Satiron (141) label. The instrumental is a real full on production with swirling strings over a repetative but subdued drum beat. A real classic detroit pruduction. Hope this has jogged your memory and you can maybe give us some more info.
|By Ralph terrna (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 12:54 am:|
Wasn't Carla Ollie Mclaughlin's label? Does it say who the producer was? This is all vaguely familiar but I can't quite put my finger on anything.
|By John Lester (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 04:39 am:|
Put that thinking cap on again Ralph.....we are all on the edge of our seats here.
I suspect that this Forum is going to have to tell YOU what you did! LOL
|By Ralph Terrana (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 05:00 am:|
This forum has already pretty much told me what I've done.You guys scare me.
|By Dave Moore (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 06:49 pm:|
Thats right, Ollies stable of labels were Carla, Karen, Moira named after his children. The music on this group of labels along with Inferno, Impact, Revilot and the Groovesville produced numbers form the basis of many a record collection over here. I have all the Karen and Carla stuff but, unfortunately I am in the Czech Republic and my records and notes are in UK. I have an awful memory and so am going to be little help in research until I get back. I'm sure as this site develops the number of vinyl junkies will grow. I'm also sure that the guys will jog a lot of memory cells of all concerned. Can't wait!
|By Ralph Terrana (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 06:57 pm:|
I'm definitly looking forward to seeing what pops up in the near future. I'll be interested in hearing what you have on Ollie's lables when you get home. Maybe it will kick start some more memories for me.
|By Andy Rix (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 11:30 pm:|
Ralph you must know that Ollie's son Ira is in the industry working for Atlantic in NYC. One of the sweetest conversations I had was with Ollie's daughter Carla when I called to speak with Ruth (wife) ... I said "who am i speaking to" she replied "I'm Carla, you know Deon jackson 'love makes the world go round' on Carla records..well that's me" ..how sweet is that
|By acooolcat (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 12:54 am:|
Ralph, a few of Ollie's records that you might remember are;
Cool Jerk - The Capitols
Rosemary, What Happened - Popcorn Wylie
Magic Corner - Belita Woods
I could send you complete label listings if that would help.
|By Ralph Terrana (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 02:38 pm:|
It's interesting to learn what Ollie's son Ira is doing these days. I remember Ollie bringing him to the studio one day and introducing me to him. He was about five years old I guess. A real cute little guy.
|By Ralph Terrana (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 02:43 pm:|
Yes I do remember some of Ollie's productions. Still curious About the Tera Shirma Strings thing though and if in fact that was Ollie's production. Does anyone know if Ollie is still around today?
|By david, glasgow, scotland (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 06:25 pm:|
ollie passed on 19th february 1984 aged 59 years.
don't know circumstances.
|By Ralph Terrana (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 07:51 pm:|
Thanks for the information David. That saddens me. Ollie was definitely one of my favorite people.
|By acooolcat (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 04:57 am:|
I guess the old bank had high ceilings - which made recording strings an option for you as the sound/accoustics were more suitable than some of the other, smaller studios in Detroit.
I'm sure someone can send you anRA of the 45.
|By Ralph Terrana (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 05:09 pm:|
Yes the cielings of the building went several feet above the second floor. I guess it worked in favor of the rather large string sessons that took place.
|By maredda (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 04:44 am:|
Speaking of the Funk Brothers, my professor, Saxist extraordinaire Nathan Davis, puts together this Jazz Seminar and Concert at my school every year, and we get to interact with the great jazz cats of today. Well anyway, Charles McPherson, born in Kansas raised in Detroit, played in Jamerson's first band. I know Charles' music, but I didn't know that. At any rate, he paid our Funk Bro a great complement by saying that he could have been a first rate jazz bass player. Sure, we knew that, but to hear Charles McPherson say it is icing on the cake.
|By Ralph Terrana (220.127.116.11 - 18.104.22.168) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 02:47 pm:|
So many bass players I have known and some that I haven't had the pleasure of knowing ( Paul McCartney for one ) Give credit to Jamerson for his influence in their earlier musical training. James Jamerson was an incredible musician.
|By acooolcat (22.214.171.124 - 126.96.36.199) on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 08:16 am:|
Hi maredda, I'm sure that jazz was the first love of most Detroit musicians. The Motown stuff was simply a way of paying the rent, and I'd say that Jameson WAS a great jazz musician.
|By Bob Olhsson (188.8.131.52 - 184.108.40.206) on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 05:40 am:|
Jazz was probably the one common interest that absolutely everybody at Motown shared. Almost anybody (including the technicians in the shop) could spend hours telling me about their experiences with various jazz players. It was our passion.