| Author | Message | ||
  SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
My brother says it is none other than Jamerson on that song. One of those times when Jamerson quietly went to Chicago. Any comments? | ||
Manny (manny) 4-Laureate Username: manny Post Number: 155 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.12.117 |
Hi, SisDetroit (Emerald)! Is the same tune by Jerry Butler, writed by Gamble-Huff? In this case, it's one of my favorites by the Jerry-G & H 60's period. I no have heard the one by Jamerson but i got a good cover by Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers. Peace & Soul Food! | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 203 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Thanks Manny for your response. I was hoping someone would come on and confirm that it is Jamerson on Jerry Butler's cut. I guess no one knows. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 158 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.223.169.197 |
Hi Sis. The only thing I know is that 'Never Gonna Give You Up' wasn't recorded in Chicago or Detroit. It was a Gamble & Huff collaboration that was recorded in Philly. The Jerry Butler collection that I have doesn't have any musician credits. Maybe Eli would know exactly who played bass? 'Never Gonna Give You Up' is one of my favorite songs by The Iceman. There's also an excellent 70's version by Bonnie Bramlett & Dobie Gray on Bonnie's "Lady's Choice" album.  | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 204 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Rodman - Thanks. Have you noticed the bass lines? Can you recognize Jamerson on Butler's cut? | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 4-Laureate Username: ~medusa Post Number: 105 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.249.244.222 |
Sis, it's a great possibility...I also believe Dennis Coffey did hit a few licks on his Guitar on a couple of Jerry Butler tunes...can anyone here elaborate on that? | ||
Dennis Coffey (dennis_coffey) 2-Debutant Username: dennis_coffey Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Hi Medusa. I did play on a few Jerry Butler tunes but a lot of times we did tracks and they were used by various artists. AllMusic.com lists some of the albums I played on. | ||
Bob Babbitt (bob_babbitt) 1-Arriviste Username: bob_babbitt Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
The Bass player on the Jerry Butler sessions for the most part was probably Louis Satterfield who also played on Rescue Me..... Also I am not sure how much James went to Chicago, or Chicago came to him, but I can tell you that I went to Chicago with some of the Funk's many times to record...I do not remember doing any sessions for Jerry Butler..Bob Babbitt | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Thanks, Dennis & Bob. Hope everything is going well with you, and hope to see you this summer. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 160 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.223.169.197 |
Hey Sis. I don't want to lie to you. I'm no Jamerson expert! LOL. The only bass players that I can usually single out on a record are Bootsy Collins, Marcus Miller and Stanley Clarke. 'Never Gonna Give You Up' was featured on Jerry's 1968 "The Ice Man Cometh" LP. I'm sure that one of our forum members has that album and they can tell you exactly who played bass if there are any musician credits on the back cover. Good Luck! | ||
Manny (manny) 4-Laureate Username: manny Post Number: 158 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.11.124 |
Hello again, soulful friends! Hi Sis Detroit (Emerald), In my first post I don't have well understand your question. BTW, about G & H and their first period of collaboration with Jerry Butler is high intersting to visite this page: �The Hit Men: kenny Gamble & leon Huff� http://members.aol.com/boardwa lk7/gamblehuff.html Here tolds: � (...) The "Jerry Butler sessions" were the first Sigma Sound Studios sessions. Before, Gamble & Huff with Joe Tarsia recorded at Cameo Parkway Studios. (...) The first was "Only The Strong Survive".� Also in a vynil compilation �Best Of Jerry Butler 1958-1969� by Rhino Records appears this information about this track: "Never Gonna You Up" (Mercury 72798) was recorded in May '68. As Rodmann, I can't distinguise a bass player except some cases very particulars as Anthony White or Jaco Pastorius, but I think at Sigma Sound at this time probably was Winnie Walford (ex The Romeos) or Ronnie Baker. Bobby Eli knows surely! Peace! | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 206 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Great information. Thanks to everyone. I'm gonna run that information by my brother. | ||
JMM (jmm) 1-Arriviste Username: jmm Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 198.110.207.195 |
Does anyone have an mp3 of the tune they could send me (jmallo@nmu.edu)? I have seriously studied Jamerson for the last two years and may be able to tell if it is one of his bass lines. When you learn to play the lines there are always signature passages and the way he follows the melody in certain spots. I recognize them not only by feel but certain techniques and the open strings he plays during his lines. His upright bass approach is very recognizable from a technique point of view. I also have a safety valve litmus test. Almost without exception (99% of the time) I can play songs for my 11 year old daughter and she picks out Jamerson's playing. She doesn't acknowledge him be name but can feel him. She will classify most songs as "Dad, that one is OK but not really great." If it is Jamerson, she won't answer my questions because she is dancing! | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
JMM - I see we have another Jamerson fan coming up in the ranks. That's great. I'll have someone send you the MP3. And thanks. Give us a good review of the bass lines after you hear it. (Message edited by sis on May 22, 2004) | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 432 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.55.162 |
The personell on "Never gonna give you up were as follows: Ronnie Baker--Bass Earl Young--Drums Norman Harris--Guitar Bobby Eli--Guitar Leon Huff--Piano Vince Montana--Vibes Arrangement--Bobby Martin Recordrd at--Cameo/Parkway(Regent) Studios, Philly Engineered by Joe Tarsia | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 433 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.55.162 |
BTW, Sigma wasnt open just yet, so we were still recording the G&H sessions at Cameo/ Parkway,which by that time was owned by Bob Lifton of Regent, NYC, hence the name change. That bass run that Ronnie does at the end of the inner choruses does have a "Jamisonesque" style, hence the belief that it could have been him, but it was our very own Ronnie Baker. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 212 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Thanks Eli - I've printed this information for my brothers. BTW Eli - I forgot what hotel they are staying in Philly. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 434 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.55.162 |
Hi Sis, Im sorry that because of a prior commitment, I'm unable to attend tonights show, although I would have liked to attend. Heres my e mail address just in case you find out where they are staying, so I can at least give him a call. phillysoulman@msn.com | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1005 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Good afternoon to all! Bobby, glad you cleared that up. I have the LP & no musicians were listed. I searched the net....nothing. That is simply one of my all-time favorite songs! What is it about all of those classics that have stayed in my heart from such a young age??? I didn't even know anything about love at that tender age. Still, I can remember those days as though they were yesterday. I can remember the feeling, the vibe, everything so clearly. I guess that's what great music does! Bobby, thanks for the clarity regarding this. Everything about this song was great!!! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 436 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.55.162 |
Hey Juice, I feel a tear welling up in my eye!! Just to have been there and to have contributed musicaly and spiritually to those monumental sessions, and to have absorbed every musical nuance from those hallowed halls, and to have been personal friends with those guys, even up until this very day, is a blessing indeed!! | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 213 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Eli you have mail. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 437 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.55.162 |
Hey Sis, I dont see anything yet. Maybe it takes a while. Did you send it to phillysoulman@msn.com ? | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 438 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.55.162 |
Got it! | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1011 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hey Bobby, When I think of those relatively innocent days & the way that people treated each other, the way that we respected our neighborhoods & look at what's going on today, it hurts me to my heart. Those days were by no means perfect, but damn, we had hope, we had dreams. That music was a reflection of those times when we still dared to dream about love, peace & togetherness. Those were songs of optimism, of pride & of love. Maybe I'm looking back through rose colored glasses. Somehow my memories tell me that what I remember was real & that it was pretty damn sweet back then. Not perfect, but sweet & much safer at that. Now THAT'S keeping it REAL!!! | ||
JMM (jmm) 1-Arriviste Username: jmm Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 204.38.22.245 |
I see folks have confirmed that the bass player on "Never Gonna Give You Up", is not Jamerson. I would like to humbly concur. There is too much space in the intro. Jamerson would have given the intro more syncopation even if only on a few notes and would have possibly provided a pick up line prior to the vocals. There is little bounce in the verse and very un-Jamerson lines in the chorus. The few passages that emulate Jamerson's style don't really have his feel. The tone of the bass is also quite different from Jameson's tone. This is not intended as a criticism of the bass player on the record. It is a nice bass line and to have the opportunity to play on such a great song is quite an accomplishment. We all should be so talented and lucky. Thanks for the chance to critique this piece. I have studied Jamerson for a number of years and seriously for the past two. The process has been very rewarding. It is a great pleasure to identify and play his style. I have never tried to emulate any other player in my 40 years of playing music with the exception of when I was a drummer and tried to learn Jim Fox (James Gang) licks, but feel some kindred connection with the feel Jamerson had on the bass. I have been made aware of a member of the forum who post by the name of "Bassman" who also plays bass and is very much into Jamerson. I would love to here from you Bassman. I am currently in a Motown band in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Three of the main members are from the metropolitan Detroit area. You'd be as surprised as I was what goes on up here. It would be my greatest dream to be in a Motown group in the Detroit area. I would make the 8 hour drive for gigs and practice. |
