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  Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 224 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.28.185 |
I apologise for my blanket statement with its "factual tone". It was quite a bit exaggerated. Blanket statement s like that are meaningless, in any case. I should have written that I had seen on acetate, master tape labels and recording session records and tape lists, that many, many Motown hits recorded by many of the Motown artists. Knowing that, if someone tells me a given song was recorded by a given artist, and I had seen and heard it, or seen it on an acetate with that labeled, or seen it on a list, I would corroborate its existance. If I had not heard it and not even seen it or seen it listed, I would not rule it out as having been recorded, unless a source informed us that it was NOT recorded. When I commented that "I wouldn't be surprised if Martha and The Vandellas or The Velvelettes had recorded "My Guy", that was a logical statement based on the sheer number of Motowns hits I had seen recorded by various Motown artists. At the time of that post, I had not been told that Martha and Cal had informed interviewers that their groups had NOT recorded that song. I was informed of that, only in your following posts. If I had known that previous to my post, i would not have made that speculative statement. Further, I mistakenly assumed that your list of artists that did NOT record "My Guy", Stonewall, was based on what had been released on vinyl and CD, and possibly what Harry Weinger had stated did exist, and assumed (wrongly)that there were many tapes that have not been looked through and categorised yet. I assumed that even Weinger couldn't tell all of what exists and doesn't exist. I had no idea that your list may have come from interviews asking artists which songs they did NOT record. I'm truly sorry that I continue to make statements that appear to be claiming to be factual, when they are just speculation. I hope this experience will help me to couch my statements in the proper terms, so casual posters and readers won't think incorrect "information" is correct. Also, I hope you don't think I would say that what I remember (poorly) from 30 years ago should be trusted over the memory of the people who were involved in the recordings, and the interviewers who assembled the information. As I mentioned above, I hadn't known that the artists, themselves had mentioned that they hadn't recorded that song, until after I had made that post. | ||
Stonewall (stonewall) 5-Doyen Username: stonewall Post Number: 272 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.237.10.142 |
Robb the K, your post is one of the nicest. The Boy From Crosstown and I were emphatic, for sure, and I'm glad that U see why. Don't kibbutz! Your memory is excellent and most impressive. U know so many things from your first-hand experience that none of us could possibly know. Of course, that is the positive purpose of a group effort like the Soulful Detroit Forum. Trust me, from what I've heard about other "Boreds" -- and one I mistakingly and briefly learned from trial by fire -- SDF is the best and U prove it. I have to tell U that I get such a kick out of how U must read but never comment on the verbal games between Juice and me, Jimmy Mack and me and SDF Some-hand and me. Especially those last two, they are so dishy. Speaking of dishy, Love Child and Spookie are on vacation for a week -- not together!! That's really kool of U! Bless U, Robb, and I'm sure she will. Lastly, Robb the K (no relation to Murray the K), to give U a chuckle, U truly can sing BEYONCE & DESTINY'S CHILD #1 hit single, "I'm A Survivor", as U got caught between the 1-2 punch "Crosstown" bus and the "Stonewall" bar and U survived! ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ While I'm here, everybody, I went out to get the national t.v. magazine, T.V. Guide, re: M-45. I took the great time and, yes, trouble to relay and print every word for U all to read and evaluate. If interested, just go to the familiar and popular "Countdown M-45 file". If anyone else reads any M-45 blurbs anywhere worthwhile, please input them on that file, too, so we all can see. Tanx! OMG, less than 47 hours to M-45!! | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 225 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.202.183 |
Thanks for the kind words, Stonewall. I don't want to come across as pompous. I really like the people on this forum, and want it to remain a positive place. But I also have to be careful to make sure that I clarify what is "educated speculation" from information from official sources, so that people don't accept the speculation as "absolute fact". I made that mistake many times before, assuming that "facts' printed in soul fanzines or told to me by long-time major music collectors, or even some people who had been in"The Industry" in the day (and should have remembered correctly), was true and accurate. This is especially important for casual or infrequent readers, who may base decisions on faulty information. That's what's great about this forum. We have people from the industry who work in it now (KevGo), and did when the music was being made (Ron M.,Dennis C.,Mike M.,Weldon,etc.) and artists who visit, etc. -so we get first hand information. I started on SD only a few months before this new forum, and have had many of the questions I had for over 40 years answered by people here. Much "information" and many "facts" I had "learned" from big-time collectors and even people that had been in the business had turned out to have been speculation, and had been spread through rumour, and people acting as "authorities". A lot of that I had volunteered on SD to answer questions, only to discover that it had been inaccurate. So, I know how it feels to accept "information" as "fact", only to find out it wasn't true. Anyway, I'm sure this additional experience on the mary Wells thread will keep that ideal in the back of my mind, to keep me on the straight and narrow path. As far as participating in your fun-and games portion of your posts- When I'm retired (in about 30 years, I hope to have enough free time to do that. Although, I have to admit, that often a lot of it is over my head. As for now, I'm already in danger of my work projects crashing and my losing my career, by spending what time I do on SD. That's why I stayed away from the SD Anonymous thread. Ironic, isn't it. After I've got no clients anymore and living in the streets, I'll have the time to post on that thread (which will then be in the archives). But, ironically, I'll have had to sell my computer just to eat, and will smell too bad to be allowed in the Den Haag public library, to use the internet for free. Actually, they charge a nominal fee now, which I won't be able to afford. In answer to your question about where my records are: The main bulk of my 45s are in L.A., as I was able to move most of the sevral hundred I had in 1966 from Chicago. I acquired the greater portion of my collection during my last 2 years in Chicago and those university years (through 1971) in L.A. I still have a few hundred 45s in Chicago with a cousin. I have most of my albums in Den Haag, plus all my European 45s, and some US 45s, and some CDs. I have most of my CDs in my flat in Munich, Germany. I'm not rich, one of my partners in our animation studio inherited the top floor of an apartment building, so I use one of the flats for free. I guess when we "strike it rich", he'll take out 20-30 years of back rent from "my cut". As far as my main home, - I consider that Den Haag. I hope to leave L.A. after no more than one or two years. As to shipping the thousands of 45s and couple thousand albums, I have a one-shot deal set up with a friend of mine in Bremen, whose best friend works for a container shipping firm in the port of Bremerhaven. He said he would "throw my records into the empty corner of someone else's paid container for free", as I've recorded a lot of good music for him over the years and drawn some original drawings of Disney characters for his kids. So, all I have to do is make sure they're packed well and rent a trailer, and drive them from Bremerhaven to Den Haag. It's not all that far. I hope I can keep the collection together until I die, and hope to get together with some other collectors, to start a Jazz/R&B/Soul/Blues Museum/Library in Den Haag. If I start it after I retire, perhaps I can make a modest salary there as one of the curators. The way things are going moneywise, I'll probably have to work as long as my mind is intact and I can hold a pencil steady. Cheers, Robb (Message edited by Robb_K on May 16, 2004) | ||
Stonewall (stonewall) 5-Doyen Username: stonewall Post Number: 277 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.237.10.142 |
Robb the K is very real. I too spend perhaps too much time on the Board; however, as I recently told my other half, I'm not spending it gettin' intoxicated at a bar or smacked at a drug party or loosing it at a sex gathering or whatever. Plus, Robb, as U reminded everyone, U exchange mucho 411 and ideas here, educate others, learn yourself and make Board friends -- which, I understand sometimes develops beyond just cyberspeace. Hey, Spookie, wazzup? Regarding Motown singers covering other Motown artists' songs, some singers wanted to do that, some needed to do that to get noticed or have a hit, while others were ordered to do it. However, there is a fourth category of singers who do not relish doing other artists' songs unless there is a reason such as MARTHA REEVES doing "Everybody' Talkin'". Totally different from the white male original. Or it can be a standard such as "More" or simply a different take like "I'll Say A Little Prayer". Nonetheless, they don't seek nor accept orders to cover a fellow stable artists' songs. They want their own identity and/or sound. While MARY WELLS had the #1 "My Guy", for example, M.R.V. was on the verge of having the #1 international song/Motown anthem "Dancing In The Street", so they weren't interested in doing nobody's "Guy". They soon had their own guys such as "Wild One", "My Baby", "Jimmy Mack" and "Honey Chile". Anyway, let's hope everyone at SDF strives for fact not fiction, and accuracy not assumption. We will all be the better for it! One other point, if I may, since everyone saves so much money by being at home on the SDF Board and not out spending it, that U should surely support the Soulful Detroit Forum, which is the conduit of so much of your enjoyment. U can write it off to your entertainment buget, if needed to justify it financially in your own mind. On the header above, a selection is: "Support This Site". This urging is coming from an individual Board member not a Board administrator. I also practice what I preach! | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 226 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.203.27 |
Good point about supporting SDF. Also, from what I saw of the recording dates, it seems to me there is a category of "duplicate recording" that you didn't mention. That would be the case in which the song was not yet a hit for the artist who would later have the hit. In that case, it would not have to worry about their recording "someone else's song" or that it might give them less chance to find their own identity, if they had only a limited number of opportunities in the recording booth. I assume that Berry and Motown's higherups didn't always have clear in their minds which artist was going to be given the full push behind a given song. More than one (and many times several) got the "A-style" background track and production values, before the final decision was made. Weren't there even some situations in which the record-buying public and/or DJs helped make that final decision? | ||
Stonewall (stonewall) 5-Doyen Username: stonewall Post Number: 296 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.237.10.142 |
No, Robb, actually M-town did not give the full "A"-side treatment, etc. to every song of the same cut to different artists. Also, U have to realize, too, they did not, for example, choose five artists and have them all record the same song on the same day! When MARY WELLS recorded "My Guy", e.g., everyone knew it was for MW. Smokey wrote it for her! MARVIN GAYE wanted "Dancing In The Streets" performed by the big-voiced, calling-out MARTHA REEVES. And so forth. Again, my point is that every Motown artist did not, figuratively speaking, record every Motown song as U originally ass-umed and so posted. Again, I appreciate your apology and now I must go out to din-din on the eve of M-45. Note: 25 Hours from M-45! [See the new M.R.V. file w/ 411.] | ||
Bless You (bless_you) 3-Pundit Username: bless_you Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 192.28.2.17 |
8 hours til M-45! Unfortunately, two of Motown's most beloved and yet overlooked acts, the "ettes" girls -- Marvelettes and Velvelettes -- will not be seen, despite the fact that lead singers Gladys Horton and Cal Street, plus other group members, are ready-willing-and-able to perform and bring joy to their many fans. The Marvelous Marvelettes and Velvet Velvelettes FOREVER! BTW, you know what sounds great? Mixing together the acapella of Cal & the girls on the karaoke disc with the Funk Bros instrumental with the organ -- of the classic (and remade by Bananarama) "He Was Really Sayin' Something"!!! One of the greatest early Norman Whitfield tracks! B.Y. |
