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  Jimmy Mack (luke) 4-Laureate Username: luke Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
I have read that Erma Franklin could have been huge but there was only room for one Franklin at the top. Thoughts? I know Berry was interested in signing her(forgot what happened),and she did the original Peice of my Heart which Im not sure I ever heard. Was it good? | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 171 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.26.133 |
I like Erma's work and voice and delivery better than Aretha's. The original "Piece of My Heart" was very soulful, and decent to my taste. As a "screamer", it's one of my least favourite recordings by her, but ALL her work was high quality. I like "Abracadabbra" on Epic, best. She was a little less hard edged on much of her other work than Aretha's Atlantic recordings. She had a beautiful voice and great command of it. | ||
Jimmy Mack (luke) 4-Laureate Username: luke Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Helpful info --thanks. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 127 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.222.66 |
I LOVE Erma's original recording of 'Piece Of My Heart'! None of the other versions can even come close! Not Janis', not Etta's, not Bettye LaVette's, not ANYBODY'S! Erma didn't have Aretha's vocal range but her voice was richer and more sultry. She had several other gems in the late 60's on the Shout label besides 'Piece Of My Heart'. My favorites include 'I'm Just Not Ready For Love' (almost pure Rock but still very soulful!), 'Big Boss Man' (uptempo Folk-Blues number with kick ass background singing and one of Erma's best performances), 'Don't Catch The Dog's Bone' (an excellent Blues number written by Carolyn), 'Baby, What You Want Me To Do' and 'Don't Have The Right To Cry'. There was also some good stuff on the Brunswick label after her stint with Shout. I like the hit 'Gotta Find Me A Lover (24 Hours A Day)' the B side 'You've Been Cancelled' and her remakes of The Doors' 'Light My Fire' and Sam & Dave's 'Hold On, I'm A Comin'. You can find these recordings and more on a few Brunswick compilations along with several other artists. Most of the early 60's Epic recordings do nothing for me. Most of it is overproduced Sam Cooke/Jackie Wilson type Pop. Erma does shine on a few ballads, 'Detour Ahead' and 'Don't Blame Me'. The rest isn't among her best! Some of these recordings are included on her 90's Golden Classic compilation along with her Shout sides. LUKE, YOU NEED TO GET ERMA'S COLLECTION THAT CAME OUT ON THE GOLDEN CLASSICS LABEL IF YOU LIKE LATE 60'S SOUL! You won't be disappointed! The lady was bad (in a good way)! I'm not sure why she stopped recording after the early 70's? | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 562 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
There's also a Brunswick CD that has some of Erma's Brunswick output. This CD is split between Erma & Lavern Bakers' notable Brunswick songs. I have the CD & it's not bad. I'm sure that KevGo can supply more information regarding this. | ||
sideburnslim (sideburnslim) 3-Pundit Username: sideburnslim Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.175.175 |
In regards to Aretha's not signing with Motown, in her book (Aretha's that is) "From These Roots," Aretha Franklin says, "This is the time 1960, when Motown was starting up. They expressed intrest in signing me, but Daddy and I had our sights set on something bigger." I don't know if there was a similar interaction between Motown and Erma...but its possible. The 45 I have of "Piece of My Heart" is on Shout which according to the label was a division of Bang records out of New York. I believe it was recorded in 66 or 67. Erma's version is more focused on the song than Janis Joplin's rendition. Erma voice is smoother and on the whole is more enjoyable listen than Joplin's. A killer track but I have not heard other Erma cuts so I can't compare within her own discography. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 563 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Honestly, I cannot in all honesty compare Erma to Aretha. Once she got away from Columbia & Jerry Wexler helped her to find her true self, Aretha was simply a dynamo that rocketed to the moon. A side by side comparison shows that Aretha had an instrument, far superior to Ermas. If is unfair to compare the two of them. Hell, Aretha circa '67-74 was in a completely different league. In the context of the times, there's been no one like her since! | ||
sideburnslim (sideburnslim) 3-Pundit Username: sideburnslim Post Number: 54 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.175.175 |
I was not comparing Aretha to Erma. Motown had a lot of artists that were no where near Aretha's level...So they may have been interested in Erma as well. She didnt have to be as good as Aretha..if she was 3/4 as good she would have been qualified to sing on Motown..and thats not a knock on Motown. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 129 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.222.66 |
I've gotta disagree with you Juice. Erma was just as talented as her sis IMO but she didn't get the breaks that Aretha got or as many chances to shine. When she did get good material (like some of the tunes I named in my previous post) she delivered! I love Ree to death and I do feel that she's given some of the best vocal performances ever put on wax but I'm not so sure that she is REALLY the greatest female Soul singer of all-time. Just think if women like Linda Jones, Dee Dee Warwick, Judy Clay and even Erma had been given the same build-up and attention that Aretha got from Jerry Wexler at Atlantic. ALL of those women had that same Gospel Choir upbringing that Aretha had and ALL of them could sing their asses off WITH SOUL! I'm sure that they could've come up with some of their own tunes as well if they were allowed to record them just as Aretha wrote 'Dr. Feelgood', 'Daydreaming', etc. The same goes for the men like Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye. Sure these two were GREATS of Soul music and excellent writers but for every Otis and Marvin there was a hundred or more Howard Tate's, Baby Huey's and Eddie LeVert's who didn't receive as much mainstream exposure as Otis and Marvin for one reason or another. The 1960's were just TOO OVERCROWDED with talent and most of the best singers weren't allowed to reach their full artistic peaks. Aretha, Otis and Marvin are all excellent artists that I love and I don't mean to slight them in anyway but they are really only the greatest by default IMO. Sideburn, I see what you mean about Motown's female vocalists. It seems as if Motown was more into female Pop singers like Diana Ross, Brenda Holloway, Tammi Terrell, etc instead of intense Soul vocalists. Most of their best female Soul singers like Kim Weston (also great at singing everything else including Pop), Yvonne Fair and Blinky were pretty much ignored by the label. Jimmy, I'm sorry if I've gone too off-topic on this thread about Erma Franklin. | ||
Wonder B (wonder_b) 5-Doyen Username: wonder_b Post Number: 173 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.250.181.161 |
I got both her LP's on Epic and Brunswick and I feel she could have had a better career than she did, because she was probably overshadowed by her sister's success... I like those albums a lot, especially 'Soul Sister' on Brunswick...  Wonder B If you mess with the 'fro, you gotta go! | ||
Helene (helene) 2-Debutant Username: helene Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.32.166.34 |
For me, her version of "Piece of my Heart" is the only version. However, I know very little about this lady so I'm now going to go and buy some of her stuff to listen to over the weekend. I'll also check out her story on the net and see if I can pick up any info on her life. That's one of the great things about SFD. I really enjoy all this knowledge I'm acquiring. Thanks for this thread. | ||
Phil (phil) 3-Pundit Username: phil Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 212.129.42.181 |
Helene, you can order Erma's LP on Brunswick (vinyl reissue) from dustygroove, for $ 8.99.Also, there're 2 copies of the original pressing, on ebay.One is at $ 28.00, and it's still a good price. | ||
Lars Nilsson (lg_nilsson) 2-Debutant Username: lg_nilsson Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 83.226.11.98 |
This is her Shout single:  B-side is the Jimmy Reed R&B classic �Baby, What You Want Me To Do�. Lars | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 5-Doyen Username: westside314 Post Number: 313 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.198 |
I still play my 45 till this day...another Franklin that should have gotten her just desserts...'them' Franklin girls are vocally blessed... | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 204.108.65.10 |
I like "The Right To Cry" (also on Shout)very much, also. It makes a very edgy soulful alternative to the smooth version by Lennie Welch. | ||
lenny (lennytone) 3-Pundit Username: lennytone Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.241.87.19 |
I'm with Rodmann & Helene; Erma's "Piece Of My Heart" is totally great. I used to play that and "Gotta Find Me A Lover" on my old radio show all the time. The "Piece Of My Heart" CD is around; we still carry it at my store. I agree that if she had the same breaks she would have been a lot bigger, and same with Judy Clay. Another unsung vocalist is Ruby Johnson, who recorded for Volt. I can't think of any female vocalist better than her, and she never had a hit. | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 5-Doyen Username: westside314 Post Number: 319 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.198 |
Ruby Andrews was another underated singer "Casonova'... | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 569 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
What'ws up Dyva!!! If you thought that Casanova was great, I love I Guess That Don't Make Me A Loser!!! Gorgeous ballad, soulful as collard greens & pig snouts!!! I don't eat snouts  Erma was talented but following Aretha was much like Tommy Aaron following his brother Hank & Pete Rose Jr following his father Pete. It best, it's a difficult task. I don't hear anyone bigging up Carolyn in here. Carolyn was quite key in creating harmonies with Aretha. Those notes that she hit on Ain't No Way are sublime. The way that her voice soared was downright Angelic! Juice | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 133 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.222.66 |
Juice, those soaring, angelic high notes behind Aretha on 'Ain't No Way' were sung by Cissy Houston not Carolyn. Carolyn did write the tune though, along with Aretha. I have Carolyn's 1969 "Baby Dynamite" album on RCA and I don't think that she was in the same league vocally as Aretha OR Erma. She's a good singer but her style was softer and less intense. I would like to hear some of her other albums and singles besides "Baby Dynamite" though. I do think that Erma in her prime was just as talented as Aretha. Her style was different from Aretha's and much more bluesy but she was still just as talented. It's too bad that Jerry Ragavoy's Shout Records went under and they weren't able to give her the buildup that she deserved. I love Ruby Andrews' 'Casanova' to death but I haven't heard anything vocally outstanding by her. Not on the level of what women like Dee Dee Warwick, Judy Clay, Linda Jones and Aretha or Erma Franklin have put on wax. I've only heard a handful of Miss Andrews' songs. I'll be on the lookout for more. Lenny, I've never heard anything by Ruby Johnson but I've been curious about her for some time. I did read her story in the book Ladies Of Soul though. She tells an interesting story about Kim Weston in there. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 596 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Rod funny, but a book credited Carolyn for hitting those notes, go figure. As for Ruby Johnson, she was straight out of the Stax mold. If I Ever Needed Love & I'll Run Your Hurt Away were typical smoldering Stax ballads. She had some nice sides. | ||
Jimmy Mack (luke) 4-Laureate Username: luke Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
I read it was Cissy on Aint no Way. Ruby JOhnson, who died recently has once chapter in book Ladies of Soul(as well as BArbra Mason,Timi Yuro, Betty LaVette etc). Im gonna get an Erma Cd too-thanks for info!! I think Thelma Houston is in the soul league at Motown--and gives Aretha a run for her money. I think Thelma is the MOST underrated. In two music books I have, one say Lorraine Ellison gave the best vocal ever on record--Stay--and another says Darlene Love did on XMAS Baby Please Come Home. | ||
Helene (helene) 2-Debutant Username: helene Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.32.166.34 |
Phil, thanks for the tip - I'll check it out. | ||
Don (don) 4-Laureate Username: don Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.175.119 |
Wow, this is a great thread that I want to read this again and again and again. Sorry I missed out on this thread eariler before. | ||
SDF (handsome) 3-Pundit Username: handsome Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 170.118.158.14 |
Hey Juice! I also concur with Rodmann & JimmyMack..although Carolyn could hit those high notes, It is indeed Cissy Houston. This is listed in Aretha's 4 CD Definitive collection, where it lists the musicians & background vocalists. P.S.-Ruby Andrews is from my hometown-Chicago Handsome | ||
Reese (reese) 3-Pundit Username: reese Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.15.169.206 |
The incorrect info about Carolyn Franklin might have been started by an old 80s Rolling Stone music guide. It stated that Carolyn was a member of the Sweet Inspirations, which is of course not true. I've seen this same info in subsequent books. I gather that some writers assume that Aretha's only background singers were the Sweet Inspirations. While the Sweets are certainly are on most of her 60s Atlantic recordings, and also accompanied her on stage, Aretha also had as her onstage backup singers the Moniques, led by Carolyn. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 149 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.223.169.197 |
Hey SDF. I've got that "Queen Of Soul" boxed set as well and Cissy Houston is listed as having sung the vocal obbligato on 'Ain't No Way'. I also remember reading an Aretha Franklin biography years ago and the author wrote about how when Cissy and The Sweets went on the road with Aretha, Cissy would get standing ovations during her bit on 'Ain't No Way'. It's an amazing recording! Back to Erma Franklin, does anyone else like her song 'I'm Just Not Ready For Love'? It's featured on the Golden Classics collection that she has out. As I stated on my earlier post the song has a stripped down, Hard Rock edge to it but it's still very soulful. I recently found out that there are at least two versions of this song by Erma. Did anyone else notice this? I was on a record shop's website that features small audio clips of the records they sell. The clip for Erma's 'I'm Just Not Ready For Love' single featured a version of this song that includes background singers and strings that aren't on the Golden Classics CD version that I have. I know that this song was released on two different Erma Franklin singles (Shout 230 & Shout 234). Are both versions the same or different on those singles? I happen to prefer the Hard Rockish version that's on the Golden Classics CD. The strings and background vocals of the other version take away the hard edge of the song and Erma's gritty vocal. I should mention that 'I'm Just Not Ready For Love' was also recorded by The Ikettes in the early 70's. It's OK but it can't touch Erma's original! | ||
SDF (handsome) 4-Laureate Username: handsome Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 170.118.158.14 |
Rod, check yo inbox! Handsome | ||
SDF (handsome) 4-Laureate Username: handsome Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 170.118.158.14 |
Thanks Rod! Handsome |
