| Author | Message | ||
  bigdaddyg2k4 (bigdaddyg2k4) 2-Debutant Username: bigdaddyg2k4 Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 206.157.26.221 |
From the day that we're born, us folks have been listening to music, whether awake or sleep, consciously or subconsciously, when we hear a song that we like or is familiar, we listen to it. Of course we can name off the top of our heads our favorite artists and songs that we love, but what about people that are responsible for the beats and rhythms that accompany that artist(s)? We at the SDF have discussed to great detail the artists, the music and the stories behind them, but we need to dig a little deeper to the tightest rhythm sections that were are still are, legendary. We have sung our praises about the Funk Brothers, MFSB and the Muscle Shoals rythym section, but who really stands out as the best ones of all? Here are a few examples that I came up with that makes a section really perculate like hot Coffee. 1. The right sound for the right artist (Producers, songwriters, etc.-like Peanut Butter & Jelly, not Peanut Butter & Mayo) 2. The era that particular recording was produced (e.g.; the Motown Sound, TSOP, etc.) 3. The personnel (a car can't move without the engine parts working in sync, right?) 4. The ability to play the instrument(s) according to detailed instructions or improvisation when the section knows their parts and each other (Miles Davis was a master in this forum, solo or otherwise; Sun Ra is a whole 'nother conversation) and 5. The great possiblity of a section becoming influential and legendary by not just playing in one group/session, but in others as well (Good example, The Crusaders-Joe Sample, Wilton Felder, Nesbert "Stix" Hooper, Wayne Henderson and Larry Carlton-awesome together, but also legendary sessionmen for other artists such as Steely Dan, Patti Austin and others). But even if those reasons still doesn't convince you enough, check these names out, and tell me if you agree that some of these individuals/groups did or did not make a major and essential contribution to the history of recorded music as we know it. Note: Some or all core musicians are mentioned only for reasons of their respected musical gifts and abilities in due respect and just to the artist/lead singer/leader(s) in order to only complement their performances not to diminish them as a whole. Names are listed in no particular order. 1. The Funk Bros. 2. MFSB 3. The Crusaders 4. Toto (David Paich, Steve Lukather, Mike, Steve and Jeff Porcaro) 5. Earth, Wind & Fire 6. Louis Johnson 7. Lee Ritenour 8. The Muscle Shoals Rythym Section 9. The backing band for Al Green's Hi recordings 10. The Original Bar-Kays (from '65-'67) 11. Barry White's studio musicians from '72-'80 including the Love Unlimited Orchestra 12. Stuff (featuring sessionman Steve Gadd) 13. Herbie Hancock's Headhunters (listen to the album and it will change your life!) 14. Miles Davis ('nuff said) 15. The various incarnations of Miles Davis' sections throughout his career (too many to mention, but I personally emphasize his output from '69-'74) 16. The section from Angela Bofill's albums "Angie" (1978) and "Angel Of The Night" (1979) (Notably Eric Gale, Francisco Centeno and Dave Grusin) These are just a few examples of what a tight rhythm section is all about in the annals of modern and traditional music. All SDFers are required to list their favorite musicians in any order, style or taste. I listed mine, what's yours? | ||
johneflat (johneflat) 3-Pundit Username: johneflat Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 152.163.252.200 |
That's a pretty comprehensive list BD, I would the groups put together by Donald Fagin for his Steely Dan projects, especially liked THe Royal Scam lp with Bernard Purdie, Chuck Rainy, the Brecker and Larry Carlton. Also loved the original FOURPLAY lineup. | ||
johneflat (johneflat) 3-Pundit Username: johneflat Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 152.163.252.200 |
whoops.......i would ADD i mean... | ||
Manny (manny) 3-Pundit Username: manny Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.10.159 |
Hello again, friends! Hey, Bigdaddy, These are some of the combos responsibles of the rythm and the horns of many soul tunes that, IMO, deserves the consideration as "Soul Artists" and also many have soul recordings in his own: -MFSB -Rythm section and strings & horns of Chi-Sound (Chi-lite's songs) -Funk Brothers -Crusaders -Booker T & MG's -Bar Kays -Mar-Keys -Meters -Fania All-Stars (the combo for many boogaloo and salsa artists!) -The three incarnations of Salsoul Orchestra (directed by Vince Montana, Thor Baldurson and Patrick Adams, i believe with some members of the rythm section invariables) -KC & The Sunshine Band Peace & Soul Food! | ||
SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 1-Arriviste Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.115.75.194 |
thats a MEAN list..Thank you for mentioning STUFF!!! Criminally Underated!! okay here goes.. Watts 105st Street Rhythm Band The JB's Wonderlove CHIC Pleasure Raydio | ||
Galactus (galactus) 2-Debutant Username: galactus Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 207.144.253.114 |
Miles Davis was definitely a master.....but I'd have to put in a word for Art Blakey and his Jazz Messengers....particularly when they featured Clifford Brown! I'm biased....Brown is my all-time favorite trumpeter!! Sorry Miles, Lee, Freddie and others!! | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 3-Pundit Username: dvdmike Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.253.182.29 |
To me, James Brown's band was the tightest | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 535 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
I think that JB was the greatest hands down. The other greats have been mentioned here by others. How did anyone forget to mention Sly & Parliament/Funkadelic. Also Atlantic's crack studio crew of the 60s & 70s: Cornell Dupree, Richard Tee, Bernard Purdie & I have to include King Curtis. | ||
Soulaholic (soulaholic) 4-Laureate Username: soulaholic Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.40.105 |
JB's get my vote Some not mentioned: War Tower of Power Trammps Nite-Liters Brothers Johnson LTG Van McCoys little group of musicians Salsoul Orchestra Booker T & Band Frankie Maze & Band Patrice Rushen & Band Just a few | ||
Boynextdoor (boynextdoor) 2-Debutant Username: boynextdoor Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 4.165.171.153 |
The tighest band I ever heard accompanied The Pointers Sisters at the Bachelors III in Ft. Lauderdale back in about 1977. They blew the audience away. God only knows who they were. The Pointer Sisters were equally explosive! Anyone out there have any idea who they might have been? | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 4-Laureate Username: robb_k Post Number: 149 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.28.203 |
Jazz Crusaders Jazz Messengers Miles Grayson Herbie Hancock (Blue Note) The Three Sounds Merced Blue Notes Funk Brothers Young Holt Ultd. | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 2-Debutant Username: 1wicked Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
Great choices all...but some are actually self-contained bands & NOT true session guys. I will add the "At-Home Symphonic Funk Orchestra". These were the guys that played on all of Wayne Henderson's productions, and included the likes of Ronnie Laws, Donnie Beck, The Beckmeier Brothers, Bobby Lyle, the rhythm section from Side Effect/The Boppers,"The Boppin' Brass", and of course, "Big Daddy" himself. | ||
Charise (mistrivia1) 1-Arriviste Username: mistrivia1 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
1wicked, what cha know about Side Effect & The L.A. Boppers?(smile). My favorite song by the Boppers "Is This The Best". Side Effect had many songs, my 3 favorites by them "The Lord's Prayer","Gorgy Porgy" & "The Loneliest Man In Town", this was during the Miki Howard era!!!! All of you practically mentioned all the bands I like. I have a soft spot for Young-Holt Unlimited, because "Soulful Strut" used to play every morning on KDIA-Lucky 13, before I would go to the babysitter's. I love, love, love that song, the piano, drums, everything. Just a classic song!!!!! P.S. 1wicked, I can't leave out "Bananas" by Side Effect!!! | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 2-Debutant Username: 1wicked Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
LOL...Charise, one of my best friends went to school with Augie & knew most of the guys well before he joined the military. He hipped me to them when we worked retail record together. After moving to L.A., I met and became good friends with Bob Grieve of the Boppin' Brass...and he schooled me in "Life With Augie 101". So yeah...I KNOW about Side Effect/The Boppers/The Boppin' Brass. LOL Personally..I liked the Helen Baylor period. | ||
bigdaddyg2k4 (bigdaddyg2k4) 2-Debutant Username: bigdaddyg2k4 Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.138.55.87 |
Don't forget friend of SoulfulDetroit.com and native Motown-er Dennis Coffey and his Detroit Guitar Band, the guys who put "Scorpio" on the map. The sessionmen for George Benson's "Breezin" album from 1976: Harvey Mason (Drums), Jorge Dalto (Keyboards), Phil Upchurch (Guitar), Stanley Banks (Bass) then on later sessions in the '70s and '80s featuring Richard Tee (Piano), Robert "Pops" Popwell, Abraham Laboriel, Louis Johnson and Neil Stubenhaus (Bass), Lee Ritenour (Guitar), Steve Gadd, John Robinson and Jeff Porcaro (Drums), Ralph MacDonald and Paulihno DaCosta (Percussion), Jerry Hey (Horns, Horn arrangements) and Jay Graydon (Synthesisers, who also served as his Producer as well). | ||
bigdaddyg2k4 (bigdaddyg2k4) 2-Debutant Username: bigdaddyg2k4 Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.138.55.87 |
One more: Weather Report, who's core musicians include Josef Zaiwaul (Keyboards), Wayne Shorter (Saxophones) and the late, great Jaco Pastorius (Bass)-one of the tightest, most precise and adventurous groups in Jazz history. | ||
Manny (manny) 3-Pundit Username: manny Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.11.18 |
Hi again, soulful friends! Some others: -Ramsey Lewis group (as a trio and as more than 3 members, including Cleveland Eaton and Maurice White) -War (including harmonicist Lee Oskar) -Blackbyrds (featuring keyboardist Kevin Toney) -Instant Funk (who also backed TNJ's, Dexter Wansel and Bunny Sigler among others) -Return To Forever (including Joe Farrell, Chick Corea and Stanley Clarke) -CTI All Stars (including Bob James, frddie Hubbard, Hank Jones, deodato, Stanley Turrentine and George Benson) -Incognito (with many personnel changes but allways with the unmistakably guitar by Jean Paul "Bluey" Maunik) Peace & Soul Food | ||
Wonder B (wonder_b) 4-Laureate Username: wonder_b Post Number: 163 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.51.160.56 |
HOw about the Meters for tight... George Porter and Zigaboo Modeliste... awww I'm a jungle man... that's what I am....  Wonder B If you mess with the 'fro, you gotta go! | ||
Don (don) 4-Laureate Username: don Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.179.210 |
Luther Addison Muddy Waters Motheer's Finest (Late 60's/early 70's) Chicago EW&F James Brown Isley Bros Tower Of Power Blood, Sweat & Tears Slave Cameo Roger/Zapp (and/or) Zapp/Roger Bootsy Collins Bernie Worrell & Woo Warriors Funk Bros Prince Rick James, Teena Marie & Stone City Band MSFB Body Count Enemy Squad (A P-Funk spin off band) Four Tops/Temptations band from 74- War | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 5-Doyen Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 302 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 70.16.138.49 |
For me, all of the Steely Dan records, especialy Asia, defined the word "tight" to me insofar as rhythm players are concerned. The Muscle Sholes rhythm section also did it for me as did the Hi and Stax sections.. | ||
Don (don) 4-Laureate Username: don Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.179.210 |
Gene Ammons Young & Holt Unlimited Patrice Rushen band of the 80's Stanley Clarke George Duke Coltrane Miles Original & Current Saturday Band Steely Dan Paul Simon's band from 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover and Graceland era. Peter Gabriel band from late 80's early 90's (60's, 70's & 80's) Bar-Kays! And band that's currently on tour w/ Del Fonics, Harold Melvin's Blue Notes & Stlistics. Van Halen w/ David Lee Roth Missing Persons Bad Brain Fishbone Erika Badu Jill Scott The Roots | ||
SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 64.169.104.77 |
how can we forget: MFSB (hey Bobby!) I still marvel at what they did and it STILL stands the test of time! If I could only play like Earl Young..(wishful thinking..) Speaking of which.. Bobby, I was curious to know are you playing on a song that I am literally hooked on now ( I just found it recently) entitled "Never Can Say Goodbye" by The Philly Devotions..I love that "shuffle" pattern that Mr Young does and Mr. Baker's bass ..awww simply divine! PS: That song should have been a HUGE hit! | ||
SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 64.169.104.77 |
DON: good call on Van Halen w/ Roth..They were a much better group with him. They will never admit that though. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 5-Doyen Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 305 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 70.16.138.49 |
Hey SF! I most certainly play on that one, and yes, Columbia should have put their muscle behind it like they did with EWF and all the others. I never understod why companies make a deal with someone just to "lose the record" for tax reasons. Never could figure that one out. Time to open a hardware store. Quick, someone please hand me a #4 drill bit and 3 wing nuts!! | ||
ralph (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 165 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
Bobby, I'm opening my shoe store right next to your hardware store. Send Paulie in and I'll give him a deal. | ||
Livonia Ken (livonia_ken) 2-Debutant Username: livonia_ken Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 136.1.1.101 |
(Insert joke about "Soleful Detroit" here) Ahem.  Regards, | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 2-Debutant Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.117.198.35 |
A lot of great rhythm sections have been mentioned. One of my favorites is the Tower of Power rhythm section. David Garibaldi, Chester Thompson, and Rocco Prestia have all heavily influenced my thinking about drumming, keyboard playing and bass lines. And then Bruce Conte was a perfect compliment to blend things together. But, to my mind, the quintessential rhythm section has to be the Count Basie 1939 rhythm section of Papa Jo Jones (d), Walter Page (b), the institution Freddie Green (g) and, if you will, Basie (see quote below). Honorable mention would go to the "The Atomic Mr. Basie" rhythm section of the fifties with Eddie Jones on bass and Sonny Payne on drums. You just can't groove any harder than the Basie band, and the heart of that is the rhythm section. These were the zenith of Basie rhythm sections. Count Basie in Downbeat 1939 on his rhythm section: "No Rhythm Worries" "I am sure that the rhythm section is right as it is. It's the one section that has given us no trouble at any time. And when I speak of the rhythm, I mean bass, drums and guitar. You can count me out." Lester Young in 1956 in Downbeat on Basie's rhythm section: "The Basie rhythm section was good because they played together and everybody in it was playing rhythm. They played for you to play when you were taking a solo. They weren't playing solos behind you." At the heart of any Basie rhythm section from the beginning up until the time of his death, decades after Count Basie died was Freddie Green. No one before or since has made the plunking out of three-note chords, one to the quarter-note groove so hard or speak so eloquently. The quotes above and the following exerpts are from http://www.freddiegreen.com/qu otes.html Count Basie called Freddie Green the 'tieup' man of the rhythm section. "He actually holds the band together", Basie said. Louis Bellson "Freddie Green to me was one of the greatest rhythm players I have heard in my life. He had a certain stroke with the right hand that really was a great marriage to the right hand of a drummer, to the right hand of a bass player, and the right hand of a pianist. It was something that you had to watch because his stroke was not straight up and down, more this way - from the top of the fretboard and back - moving forward about three or four inches and back again, with a light pulsation on beats 2 and 4. He was just loud enough so you could feel it. He blended so perfectly with the bass, the piano, and the drums that if you talk about four guys that were married - that Basie rhythm section - that was it!" | ||
Wonder B (wonder_b) 5-Doyen Username: wonder_b Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 80.14.113.173 |
Well MFSB is sure to be on that list of course... but where's Bobby???? LOL  Wonder B If you mess with the 'fro, you gotta go! | ||
Manny (manny) 4-Laureate Username: manny Post Number: 97 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.12.90 |
Hello again, soulful friends! Hey Wonder B! This is a game? in this case is very easy: Bobby is the man with a hat that is smiling, just behind Larry Washington, at the center of the group (the epi-center or the eli-center of MFSB, smile). Some other rythm section that deserves are mentioned: -Fat Larry's Band (they performed live with Blue Magic) -Commodores (they backed O'Jays live) -Rufus (also backed O'Jays live jointly with Johnny Guitar Watson in their 25th aniversary american tour) -The rythm section with the O'Jays in their 60's live performances (Dyke & The Blazers?) -Azymuth. Their percussionist, Ivan "mamao" Conti, is genial! Peace & Soul Food | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 5-Doyen Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 306 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 70.16.138.49 |
Im the guy in the apple hat as Manny had said. Some say that I kinda resemble paulie3$hoes, capice@#$%^& | ||
Don (don) 4-Laureate Username: don Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.78.27.135 |
Hi Slyfan_3000, Thank you man, I think VH was the bomb with David Lee. I think they we're the only band that I give credit to by creating the California Sound, and no one has duplicated the sound since. I do like a few songs that Sammy Hagar did with them..."Could This Be Love", "How Do I Know When It's Love" and "Right Now". I always thought that Sammy was very consistant on supplying Eddie, Alex and Anthony with material. Those are Sammy's songs totally. What woke me up to Sammy was the video of "Right Now", that's when I finally knew how talented this cat is, and that was the biggest hit they (VH) ever had before Sam's departure. I do favor Roth. To Bobby Eli, I worked at quite a slew of record stores and believe me-you, they couldn't keep a MSFB LP in the stores. I knew they sold like bananas. I don't see why in hell that WB or Sony don't release this PIR, sales would rocket! It makes no sense. I already posted, I'd just like to say my condolenses to the Family and Friends of MR. WHITEHEAD of Mc Fadden and Whitehead fame. | ||
SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 68 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.119.52.47 |
Don: well, I wont say they created the California Sound perse..They added on to it..but groups at that time like Suicidal Tendencies, Red Hot Chili Peppers were making some noise in the underground circuit and were raising the stakes at the time too.. Roth had an edge that helped take the group to the next phase..Hagar was NOT the man for that group..It seems to me they wanted to kinda "smoothe" their edges by getting Hagar..They couldve gotten Dee Snider at least!!(lol) but Roth was the man w/o a doubt.. I was just listening to "Panama" the other day.. | ||
SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.119.52.47 |
corr: smooth PS: Hagar is talented by all means but VH was no the group for him | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 5-Doyen Username: ladymystique Post Number: 321 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 216.37.228.106 |
IMO, Prince's NPG, the JBs, and Mandrill | ||
Don (don) 4-Laureate Username: don Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.175.119 |
SF3000, Oh, they VH did have a Cali or southern Cali sound. I mean you could just feel it, hear it, sense it (and not to sound nastay), even smell it...(laugh). Your right Hagar wasn't the man for the band, although VH's music and sound seemed way too watered down for my taste Slyfan_3000. LadyM, you are so right, how could I forget about those J.B.'S, darlin. And Manny did mention Rufus & Chaka (Khan). What about Willie Mitchell's and Al Green's Hi Records studio and Stax/Volt musicians. I've seen them play live on several occasions. | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 5-Doyen Username: westside314 Post Number: 353 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.216 |
MANDRILL BRASS CONSTRUCTION THE JB'S WAR EARTH WIND AND FIRE OHIO PLAYERS YOGI - backing up that whole 'All Platinum' series of peformers... Ray Parker and Raydio BAR KAYS ISSAC HAYES MOVEMENT BARRY WHITE THE CORPORATION - especially with the Jackson 5 HARVEY AVERNE SERGIO MENDES WILLIE COLON RAY BARETTO EDDIE PALMIERI TITO PUENTES OLATUNJI AND THE LIST GOES ON... | ||
zebop (zebop) 2-Debutant Username: zebop Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
I've got to agree about Van Halen. Sure they weren't Led Zeppelin, but with David Lee Roth they were great. A group with hooks that broad needed a sense of humor and that's what Roth gave them. Love the JB's too of course. I do have to say I prefer the 71-74 edition, they could do anything. Finally got a chance to hear some of those tracks from Zaire in '74--amazing. Loved Hi Rhythm too a little more when Al Jackson was drummming--he had a slightly lighter touch and was always surprising. I love MFSB too, I can still play "Bad Luck" and almost go crazy. |
