Hip-Hop Samples

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Author Message sideburnslim (sideburnslim) 3-Pundit Username: sideburnslim Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.175.175 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 12:12 am: �� ��� Here is a question for the forum... Does sampling ever add to the music..Is it a legit art form? What samples and the resulting "new" songs do you like? Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 119 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.222.66 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 4:40 am: �� ��� I'm only 23 so I missed most of the Soul songs and artists that we discuss here at the forum because I wasn't born yet. Thanks to Hip-Hop I've discovered SO MANY tunes that I never would've known about. Here are some of my favorite Soul tunes that I found out about from Hip-Hop samples. The Rap tune is in parenthesis : YOU ROAM WHEN YOU DON'T GET IT AT HOME by The Sweet Inspirations (ONE/Ghostface Killah) IT'S OVER by Eddie Holman (NUTMEG/Ghostface Killah) IMAGINARY PLAYMATES by Rene & Angela (IMAGINARY PLAYER/Jay-Z) TRYING GIRLS OUT by The Persuaders (GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS remix/Jay-Z) I GET HIGH (ON YOUR MEMORY) by Freda Payne (GOOD TIMES/Styles P) CRAB APPLE by Idris Muhammad (CHECK IT OUT/Grand Puba & Mary J. Blige) NO ONE'S GONNA LOVE YOU by S.O.S. Band (NO ONE'S/Foxy Brown) RISIN' TO THE TOP by Keni Burke (LOVE NO LIMIT remix/Mary J. Blige) These are JUST A FEW that I can think of. If it wasn't for these songs being sampled for Rap, I never would have discovered them. Sampling can be very creative when rare and overlooked tunes are sampled and other times it can be just down right stupid! How many more times can James Brown's 'The Payback' or Cameo's 'Candy' be sampled? (Message edited by Rodmann on May 04, 2004) Dayo (dayo) 2-Debutant Username: dayo Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.136.178.202 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 5:09 am: �� ��� The one that springs to mind is the chick who sampled Backstabbers intro. Thought that was sublime Vonnie (vonnie) 4-Laureate Username: vonnie Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 9:35 am: �� ��� Dayo, That Chicks' name is Angie Stone. Dayo (dayo) 2-Debutant Username: dayo Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.134.189.245 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 11:14 am: �� ��� thanks Vonnie Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 529 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 3:11 pm: �� ��� This is my third attempt at posting this. Everytime I try to post it, my ISP disconnects. I guess that my ISP doesn't like sampling If you ask me, when done correctly, sampling can certainly add to the music. By sampling, I'm not reffering to the wholesale ripoff of a track. Any idiot can do that. I'm talking about creatively taking snippets of samples & creating an entirely new song out of it. I think that the most creative use of sampling was done by Prince Paul on De La Soul's 1989 LP debut, Three Feet & Rising. That LP used samples as far ranging as a French instructional record, The Jarmels & The Turtles. Who would have ever thought that you could take such unthinkable elements & create a rap song that worked. I mean....THE TURTLES & RAP MUSIC????? UNTHINKABLE!! Pete Rock employed snippets of Jazz, particularly horns & created some of the best & harmonic Hip Hop. Actually, sonically, his songs were musically on par with the best of Pop & R&B of regardless of any era. What I appreciate most about sampling is the fact that it's brought attention to many obscure songs that many of us have never heard. It's also given new life & attention to some long forgotten artists. Examples of this is Kick In The Door by Biggie. He took I Put A Spell On You & flipped it completely upside down. He gave that song a completely different energy & intensity & musically, it was great. It also caused people to turn their attention to Screamin' Jay hawkins, who had faded from the limelight long before. Another example is De La Soul's use of samples in their song Saturdays. Their use of The Mighty Ryeders Evil Vibrations & I believe it was Lou Donaldson's Light My Fire, created enough interest, as to have their LPs re-released. I'll be back with examples of good use of sampling. I have to check my records, as, I wouldn't want to forget anyone. Juice (Message edited by Juicefree20 on May 04, 2004) SDF (handsome) 3-Pundit Username: handsome Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 170.118.158.14 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 3:28 pm: �� ��� Hi. Sampling can be good or bad. It's bad to me when different artists keep sampling the same song. 2 examples of this is Debarge's "Stay With Me & A Dream". I also agree with Juice on some songs that used sampling and create an entirely different song. I will also be back later with examples. Handsome SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 1-Arriviste Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.119.53.216 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 3:55 pm: �� ��� Right on Juice!! I see you are up on it! You too Rodmann!! Ghostface..wow...got that new album?? Its the sure shot!! Sampling is another form of sound collage as you would do with photos but in audio form. Im glad you mentioned Prince Paul who litterall is a sampling genius..what he did with "3 Feet High and Rising" was a trend setter of its time. The Turtles, The Blackbyrds, The Mad Lads.etc..I thought it was rather insteresting what Paul, Marley Marl, 45 King etc were doing at the time with these records due to the fact that Black Radio as well as R&B in general was going through a serious idendity crisis neglecting a lot of these artists and their works. While these kids were being exposed to these great songs and groups via sampling. It served as an educational tool beyond just flipping a beat. I was very fortunate to grow up hearing these artist pre hip hop and sampling so I kinda feel like the middle man but I do know it feels good to know that new life is breathed into these timeless recordings. Esp, for the obscure artists who never received their due such as The Mighty Ryders!! That album is a monster!! "Evil Vibrations" is the party rocker!! Also, sampling is an extension of what Kool Herc, Afrika Bambattaa, Grandmaster Flash, Clark Kent, etc were doing back in the days of the DJ era...Mc's would rhyme over these obscure beats and Breakdancers would "B Boy" over these songs as well..So we must give credit to the "Ghetto PD's" for educating so many and keeping these records alive when radio didnt! Known affectionetly as the "Poor Man's Band" sampling (when done correctly) is a creative tool in its own right..Pete Rock's productions are timeless. I still flip out on what he did on "Mecca". Cant forget DJ Premier and The RZA.. Good Uses Of Sampling (I can help you Juice!!): Dummy..PORTISHEAD(lp) Owner Of A Lonely Heart..YES 900 Number..45 King Back To Life..Soul 2 Soul Players..Slum Village Come Clean..Jeru The Damaja Mama Said Knock You Out (LP) ..LL Cool J Enter The 36 Chambers..Wu Tang Clan ANY Ghostface Killah release! The Bizarre Ride2..The Pharcyde The WORSE example would have to be... Ice Ice Baby..Vanilla Ice there are a lot more but that one stands out like a sore thumb.. to the beat yall! One Love! Vonnie (vonnie) 4-Laureate Username: vonnie Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.252.200 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 5:36 pm: �� ��� Slyfan, I have to agree with you on your naming "Ice Ice Baby" as the worst case of sampling. IMHO it was not "sampling", it was "trampling". Manny (manny) 3-Pundit Username: manny Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.10.159 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 5:37 pm: �� ��� Hello again, Soulful Friends! Somebody here have heard US 3's samples in their "Hand On The Torch" Cd (Blue Note, 1993)? Their sample of Herbie Hancock's "Cantaloupe Island" is very good. Peace & Soul Food! SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 1-Arriviste Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.115.75.194 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 5:59 pm: �� ��� Vonnie: LOL!! Yeah that song is a total mess..(sorry Vanilla, nothing personal..) GOAT (goat) 3-Pundit Username: goat Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.228.144.159 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 6:11 pm: �� ��� I say no. It doesn't add anything and usually destroys the original art form. I don't mind songs being re-done but when they are sampled as a beat and just a few lines are repeated....yuck! One person who does this constantly is P.diddy. Can't the man think of his own grooves? I hate it and wish they would stop. BTW: What ever happened to the good rap days? Did NWA and the like destroy the REAL black rap? SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 1-Arriviste Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.115.75.194 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 6:23 pm: �� ��� GOAT: One thing you must realize is that Sean Combs never claimed himself as being musician..he is a purely a performer. In actuality, rappers themselves arent musicians they are writers and lyricists. The music serves as an aid...Although, they are folks like Pete Rock, Prince Paul, etc who enhance the sounds and educating the masses while moving them a----s. When you say Good Rap..do you mean like the old Sugarhill, Enjoy Records days..that is timeless!! NWA enhanced rap and made folks aware of the conditions of "Urban America"...They really didnt sample a lot they had live musicians a lot of the time...Dj Quik never uses samples at all... Another form of brilliant usage of sampling is Public Enemy!! The BOMB SQUAD really changed the game back then too...Where ya at CHUCK D!! sideburnslim (sideburnslim) 3-Pundit Username: sideburnslim Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.175.175 Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 12:49 am: �� ��� I don't think NWA purposely destroyed it...its just that rappers can't seem to get past it...and its about time they did! Rodman did these samples really track you back to the originals? 90% of the time the sample sources are never listed so how could you find the names of the original? Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.222.66 Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 2:46 am: �� ��� Hey Slyfan, Ghostface and the whole Wu-Tang Clan are the most creative when it comes to sampling IMO because they go after those rare and forgotten tunes that were ignored when they were first released. Ghostface's "Supreme Clientele" album is a classic and has some wonderful samples from The Sweet Inspirations, Eddie Holman and Rufus Thomas among others. I WILL FOREVER BE GRATEFUL TO GHOSTFACE FOR INTRODUCING ME TO THE SWEET INSPIRATION'S 'YOU ROAM WHEN YOU DON'T GET IT AT HOME'! That song has become one of my all-time favorites! I never get sick of it! Damn, those women could sing! If I hadn't have purchased "Supreme Clientele" I would never have heard it. Sly, I don't have that new album yet but I will be getting it pretty soon. Is it good? What are some of the samples? Sideburn, most of the albums that I have list what song is sampled in the album credits but as you pointed out that's not always the case. All of the tunes that I listed have the artist and song that was sampled in the album credits. GOAT, I do see where you're coming from. Sampling is a double-edged sword. On one hand it's good because it exposes young music fans to excellent songs that they would've never heard. It's also nice to see classic artists and songwriters make royalties from songs that weren't big hits the first time around. On the other hand I think that sampling is stifling creativity in today's Black music. Non-talented and lazy "producers" (I use that term loosely!) are allowed to rely on samples because in most cases they have no real musical talent. It's not so bad when new life is breathed into rare and forgotten tunes but what's so creative about sampling a song that EVERYONE knows and has never forgotten? P. Diddy, Kanye West and several others are major offenders of this. What the hell is so creative about sampling tunes like Chaka Khan's 'Thought The Fire', Mtume's 'Juicy Fruit', Cameo's 'Candy', 'James Brown's 'The Payback', David Bowie's 'Let's Dance', Lisa Stansfield's 'Been Around The World' and so on? Things are so screwed up now that today's "producers" are sampling songs that used samples! Non-singing Ashanti's smash hit 'Foolish' sampled Biggie Smalls' 'One More Chance' which sampled El Debarge's 'Stay With Me' only a few years after Biggie had a hit with it. It gets even worse! Mariah Carey's 'Boy (I Need You)' sampled Camron's hit single 'Oh Boy' which sampled Mary J. Blige's 'I'm Going Down' which sampled Rose Royce's 'I'm Going Down'! This is talent? LOL. It seems as if today's young "producers" couldn't write a jam all by themselves even if their last name was Smuckers! Eli (phillysoulman) 5-Doyen Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 239 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.30.61 Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 10:34 am: �� ��� Right on Rodmann!! My sentiments exactly. BTW..Pray tell..whats gonna happen to those overly ostentatious $400,000 Maybach auyos that Ashanti and Ja Fool had "purchased" tsk tsk tsk!! At least Jigga could afford his! SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 2-Debutant Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.119.53.191 Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 3:55 pm: �� ��� Rodmann: I feel you dawg but Kanye doesnt really sample heavily...He is actually a genius!! Did you pick up his album?? Let alone did you hear Janet's single?? Naw right now there are a lot of cat like Jay Dee and Madlib that are putting out hotness without the whole sampling thing and its still butta..I think as long as you are creative the samples (ie RZA, Pete Rock, Primo, etc) its cool but to have a crappy rapper on top of a loop is totally wack.. Well, as you know with Ghost..there always something interesting on his albums but he takes sampling on a whole 'nother lever...The highlight of the album is a very famous song that he (or the label) must have paid big bucks for because he doesnt use 8bars or a loop or a snippet..HE SINGS OVER THE ENTIRE ORIGINAL TRACK...He outdoes BIZ on this one and knowing GHOST you are gonna be on the floor laughing when you hear it. I guess he figures if im gonna pay this much for a song I might as well take the whole thing...GHOST is the man I tell ya... Now with RZA, he takes it a step further..a lot times he would look for some of those musicians from the HI Records/Muscle Shoals Team to do work on some of WU's albums...Thats some seriuous LOVE right there..Issac Hayes was on the last Wu Tang album..I remember David Porter giving mad props to WU in an interview 3 years ago..im like wow!! RZA is a serious digger...my mentor use to roll out with him and they would hit up record stores on the regular and he would buy damn near the whole store.. It is about to taking the music to the next level though..loops are cool but cats are going to the lab doing their own thing like Hi Tec, Jay Dee..etc sideburnslim (sideburnslim) 3-Pundit Username: sideburnslim Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.175.175 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 12:54 am: �� ��� How about the GZA's sample of the Barkay's "In The Whole" for the song "Living in the World Today." On the first Liquid Swords album...that was great! Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 132 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.222.66 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 2:47 am: �� ��� I hear ya Eli! Ja Rule's Rap career is pretty much washed up. I hope he saved his money! LOL. Sly, I liked several of Kanye's "productions" at first but only because I liked how he updated somebody else's old tunes. The things that he's chosen to update haven't been all that rare to me though. He's chosen known and proven hits to sample that any Soul fan over 30 is already familiar with. His "Chipmunk Soul" shtick is starting to get old and he's running it into the ground. I'm not gonna be impressed with him until I hear him come up with a jam ALL BY HIMSELF without help from samples. Sideburn, I only found out about that Bar-Kays tune because of GZA sampling it. Another excellent sample was Junior Mafia's use of Sylvia Striplin's 'You Can't Turn Me Away' on their hit 'Get Money'. I wouldn't have discovered Sylvia Striplin or her excellent Roy Ayers produced "Give Me Your Love" album if it weren't for Junior Mafia. SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.115.75.186 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 12:35 pm: �� ��� Ja Who....that dude is played out like Pee Wee Herman and a Cameo fade...He was never really "IN" the first place..He got by through association with Jay Z and DMX..etc. Naw you have to get Kanye's album...there's only one sample on there and that's a Marvin Gaye (Distant Lover) and he even flips that sweet! But naw..check out his single "All Fall Down" w/ Syleena Johnson (Sir Syl's daughter). Janet Jackson's single off the new album. The new Dialted People's..the dude's got some skills.. The voice thing is a little played but you know who started that whole thing....RZA. Also check for Jay Dee and Madlib..these cats PLAY instruments and are coming with the heat w/ original songs.. ditto: I too have to thank (ala DJ Clark Kent) Junior Mafia and Black Moon for putting me up on Sylvia Striplin too... SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.115.75.186 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 12:37 pm: �� ��� FYI: that was for you Rodmann and friends.. Peace. Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 582 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 6:13 pm: �� ��� I thank God that I was around for the originals (most of them anyway). Give Me Your Love was HOTTT in my rink at the end of '80. I know that it was on a small indie label, but, I was still shocked that this record never charted R&B at all. That was a hot record. As we're talking about Sylvia Striplin, does anyone remember her group, The 80s Ladies & their smoker: Turned On To You? SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 44 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.115.74.188 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 6:52 pm: �� ��� Yeah, I agree Juice..It didnt hit me that she made "Give Me Your Love" until I discovered the B Side to "Turn Me Away". I use to hear that song on KGFJ (LA) as a shorty thats how I remembered it. That record STILL packs the dancefloor believe it or not.. I remember "Ladies"...Uno Melodica was a great label that had a lot of potential..The founder/owner of the label was Roy Ayers/William Allen. The roster consisted a number of artists that Roy & Edwin Birdsong were working with at the time. Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 591 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 7:23 pm: �� ��� Brother, I believe that jam still packs 'em. Give Me Your Love was slammin' & it still sounds new. It could be a bit of a pain to mix with it's shifting time signature. ME NO CARE!!! Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 134 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.222.66 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 7:27 pm: �� ��� What's up Sly. Everything that I've heard by Kanye has been a sample. There's gotta be more than one sample on his album because his first two singles are samples of old songs. I kinda gave up on Rap a while ago because of weak rappers talking the same nonsense and the fact that most of the songs I liked used samples of old songs so I just started listening to the originals. Every now and then I hear something new that I like and I go get the CD. Juice, I started to respond to this topic earlier but it made me think of Sylvia Striplin and the next thing I know I was listening to her whole album! The songs are excellent and Roy Ayers studio band around this time was so tight! My favorites on there include 'Keep Pushing', 'Give Me Your Love', 'You Can't Turn Me Away' and 'Will We Ever Pass This Way Again'. I can't believe that 'Give Me Your Love' and 'You Can't Turn Me Away' didn't make the R&B charts. Sylvia's squeaky voice is definitely an acquired taste. I don't think that I would care for her singing as much as I do if it weren't for Roy's excellent production. In the hands of a less sympathetic producer she would sound horrible. I've also got that Eighties Ladies album. For some reason I've never liked 'I Turned On To You'. 'It's Easy To Move', 'I Knew That Love' and the vocal and instrumental versions of 'Ladies Of The 80's' are much better IMO. Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 597 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 8:17 pm: �� ��� Hey Rod! It's amazing that none of her songs charted R&B. The 80s were truly strange. It could just be the small regional Indy label/poor distribution blues. It's still hard to believe that Roy didn't have enough clout to get more airplay for her, as Roy was always pretty respected in the business. Amazing! SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.119.55.202 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 8:44 pm: �� ��� Rod: I hear ya..naw the whole album may have like 3-4 samples..But I dig Kanye for the fact that he is going against the grain with the whole anti bling factor and actually has concepts that are well thought out for his songs..But yeah, I hear you.. the new generation doesnt have that same fire...Everything up to 95 was my limit although there are some groups that are still putting it down..Slum Village, Talib Kweli, Common, Madlib,Outkast,etc...I stopped listening to the radio a while back and just went with strictly indie artists... I was always a fan from jump pre sampling..Thus, I love it all. SF3000 (slyfan_3000) 3-Pundit Username: slyfan_3000 Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 67.119.55.202 Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 8:45 pm: �� ��� JUICE: HAHAAAHAA...That song IS hard to blend in..I thought it was just me..LOL. Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 601 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2004 - 10:05 pm: �� ��� My mixing theory was to mix in measures & bars. I listened to subdivisions, 8th notes, 28th notes, like that so that the measures would line up. That record would match up perfectly, but once the verse came in BOOM!!! Everything changed up! Still, the jam was hot. As long as you chose the right song, it would work. Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 723 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 12:16 am: �� ��� I meant 16th notes. I know from 4th, 8ths, 16ths, 32nds & 64ths. I have no idea what 28th notes are. Apparently, my keyboard does I just caught this typo. Cool Ju (cool_ju) 2-Debutant Username: cool_ju Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 12:33 am: �� ��� I was looking at that the other day. "28th notes?" Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 726 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 12:37 am: �� ��� That would be a heck of a trick, I'll tell you that!!