| Author | Message | ||
  fayette (msshonuff4u) 1-Arriviste Username: msshonuff4u Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
can you tell me in your opinion what makes a song a hit.is it the vocals, lyrics, music all more one then the other.i heard songs that the vocals may not be the best and the music makes it a hit.and what singer that you know has it all. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 3-Pundit Username: rodmann Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.129 |
PROMOTION is what makes a song a hit! I've heard so many classic Soul songs that should've been hits but never made the charts because they didn't get promoted for one reason or another.  Today Promotion and Image is what makes a hit. Good vocals, excellent lyrics, musicianship and actual TALENT have absolutely NOTHING to do with it! If your record label promotes and you are a thug or a slut BINGO, you've got a hit! | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 3-Pundit Username: rodmann Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.129 |
I should also add that the general public has been thinking that THEY are the ones that had made hits and stars of recording artists through the years but they're wrong. It's all about PROMOTION! The public as a whole never even gets a chance to hear the best singers and songs if they aren't promoted. | ||
GOAT (goat) 1-Arriviste Username: goat Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.228.146.152 |
I have to agree with Rodmann. Today, it's all about the promotion. Just listen to the schlock they play on the radio today. Just terrible, yet, these so-called artists sell a million records. If it's sound that your talking about it has to be an easy beat and a catchy chorus. That's about it. Just look at The Beatles. Easy stuff, but wonderfully catch and easy to listen to. | ||
fayette (msshonuff4u) 1-Arriviste Username: msshonuff4u Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
i never thought of it that way. | ||
Dayo (dayo) 1-Arriviste Username: dayo Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.134.166.31 |
Lyrics that people can "own". | ||
tsaneladi (tsaneladi) 3-Pundit Username: tsaneladi Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.32.91.222 |
Lyrics that people can "own". Yeah, that helps make a good song, for sure. A catchy hook..for soul music a vocal with feeling..real feeling, all make for a good song. A hit,as Rodmann said, takes promo, promo, promo | ||
SoniT (sonit) 1-Arriviste Username: sonit Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.106.213.162 |
I agree with Rodmann 100% Look at some of these "hits" today? It's all about promotion and image. I'd love to say that it's the music, lyrics, vocals, etc. but, in reality, that's not the way it is. | ||
ralph (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
Rodmann I was about to take issue with you, but realized you are right on the money. In the old days it was about promotion also. It always has been. The difference being, promotion people then were contending for radio play with a lot of good product. So in the end, a good promotion man got his good song on the air. Sadly, today it really is about promoting some stupid image and very little to do with any talent that may go along with that image they are trying to sell. | ||
Greg C. (greg_c) 1-Arriviste Username: greg_c Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 166.84.225.61 |
Politics and good PR. You've got to be connected and know folks in the industry just to get your stuff heard. You can look at the state of the industry and see that it's not about talent! | ||
Kevin Goins - KevGo (kevgo) 3-Pundit Username: kevgo Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.115.136.66 |
Folks: If I may add to Ralph & Rodmann's point it is promotion that sells the record. I've seen labels criminally let good tunes fall by the wayside due to lack of promotion. No matter how much a radio program director or a record retail manager can expose an artist/recording to the public, if the label ain't putting the promotion dollars behind the record, it's sayonara. When I would speak to the record promotion men and women who worked for labels in the 1960s and 1970s they would always say that if the song had that certain charm (hooks, melody, story-telling lyrics and even a touch of novelty) it was easier for them to promote the record to radio and retail. While I do agree with Ralph on the point that image over music is what the labels are promoting nowadays, even that is getting old and tired. TV shows like Oprah as well as the "concert series" offered by the Today Show and Good Morning America are living proof that an artist has got to PERFORM before a LIVE audience in order to promote their records - a well-shot video ain't gonna be enough. Even a live appearance at a venue can help, for example Michael Jackson tied up traffic in Times Square when he appeared in front of Virgin Megastore to promote his "Invincible" CD - if he kept up the live appearances he could've sold more discs. Also what is being used in good ol' direct marketing - TV commercials were aired to promote Rod Stewart's CD of standards which helped sell the disc into the thousands (the recording went platinum). Kevin Goins - KevGo | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 4-Laureate Username: westside314 Post Number: 85 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.216 |
My view: People, places and promotional things... Id like to give a shout out to 'the dentist chair', 'the elevator' and 'the supermarkets'...where I have discovered some of the best tunes I have ever heard in my life... | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 3-Pundit Username: rodmann Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.129 |
Thanks Ralph. I was hoping that no one would think that I was suggesting that there wasn't any talent in the industry back in the 60's and 70's. There actually was an overabundance of vocal talent, excellent musicians and good songs back then. My point is that the record labels have ALWAYS had the power to dictate what artists and songs they think the public should hear because they have the promotion dollars. You can have all of the talent and great songs in the world but if your record label doesn't promote you don't stand a chance and the public will never hear you! It's because of this that people like Howard Tate, Dee Dee Warwick and countless others (SO MANY OTHERS!) aren't household names. These artists certainly had the vocal talent and their share of good songs but they were done in by lack of promotion and record label politics. And anyone who doesn't know that today's music biz isn't ALL about PROMOTION & IMAGE must be deaf, dumb and blind! It's because of this nonsense that non-singing Britney Spears can build one of the most successful careers of all time just because she played a naughty schoolgirl (kiddy porn) in her first music video, unknown rapper 50 Cent can sell millions of his debut album just because of the hype surrounding him getting shot 30 times, two teenaged Russian sluts can sell millions and millions of albums just because they like to French kiss each other every chance they get and THE MADNESS JUST DOESN'T STOP! What does MUSICAL TALENT have to do with any of this? Turn on MTV, VH1, BET or your Top 40 radio station and see and hear for yourself. The proof's in the puddin' people! | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 4-Laureate Username: westside314 Post Number: 92 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.216 |
Rodmann, I agree with you in no arguementive sense , however it has largely to do with promotion and who they are promoting it to. It reminds of the 70's whenthe big media issue about products that were being promoted to the Urban communities were 'toxic' as compared to the suburbian areas... The promotion think tanks sit down and figure out through pure media and statistics 'what are the ills of the world right now' or 'whats a major issue right now'...and find a poor choice of an artist who's 'schtick' is about a particular thing and they hit pay dirt. Britney came out during a time when clubbin, ecstacy and sexual endeavor where at a peak for the 'suburban girl'...50 cent (which he is really worth about a half of penny) a Brooklyn-ite was pushed in the time of the cop-killing the average folk and gunning down drug dealers era...making him the 'urban voice' for that generation'...and as for the 'Russian sluts'...lol...homosexaulity and bisexuality in music sells now...and they are the voice of that group of people, they young ones who want to come out that way...rebellious against society and their parental norms...not to say that there is a lost soul in there who is really in trouble with sexuality issues...but I can go on about that for days... People: the insensitive crooks/ Places: the record companies and where they recruit/ and 'things': the stuff you and I both mentioned above.= 'MONEY'. The madness will probably not stop until GOD destroys it. Peace Rodmann, DyvaNaye | ||
Richard Felstead (felstead2001) 2-Debutant Username: felstead2001 Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 128.40.91.183 |
Jeez guys, The picture you paint is a depressing one. I know what you're saying is correct, but it's still sad isn't it. I guess forward thinking Dj's that work for an independent Soul station funded by itself, hardly have an influence over the music buying public anymore. I do know for a fact that Solar Radio has an influence on UK fm led radio stations playlists. Radio One, Heart, and Capital's ( in the Uk ) playlists are now predominantly playing R&B ( black pop ) as a direct result of our influence in the 90's. The difference being is that they have never incorporated the classier and more specialist side of our music. Probably because it wouldn't attract the advertisers. We play it all and as a result don't get any support from any of the record companies. Go figure. You're right Rodmann, it is madness. It's all about the money and appealing to the lowest common denominator. Richard Felstead www.solarradio.com The Home Of Soul (Message edited by felstead2001 on April 23, 2004) | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 1-Arriviste Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.117.198.35 |
You know, commerce has its place, but when the entire society becomes defined by commerce, and commodification takes the place of culture, well, "depressing" things are bound to happen. | ||
GOAT (goat) 2-Debutant Username: goat Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.228.129.153 |
True to that Sudi Kamau. Just take a look at NOrth American society. Sad but true. | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 4-Laureate Username: westside314 Post Number: 139 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.211 |
..and that is my point EXACTLY. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 80 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.129 |
Dyva, I don't have a problem with "artists" being popular for political reasons but I'm still wondering what MUSICAL TALENT the most popular "artists" of today possess. I'm one of those odd music fans that looks for either vocal talent, excellent songwriting, good musicians or all of the above, first and foremost! Who gives a damn about a musical "artist" making a political statement when they don't have any musical talent to back it up? I'm sorry but I don't! And does anyone actually believe that "artists" like Britney Spears, 50 Cent and The Teen Russian Lesbians are sending out these political images and messages because they care about what's going on in society? Does Britney Spears really give a damn about young underage girls when she markets herself to them but takes every opportunity she gets in the media to show what an X-rated floozy she is and promote SEX? Does 50 Cent really care about African-American youth when he promotes violence at every opportunity and boasts about selling drugs to his own community? Do those two Russian sluts (I'm sorry, I mean two Russian young ladies) actually care about gay youth struggling with sexuality issues just because they like to French kiss each other in public SO STRAIGHT MEN CAN ENJOY IT? Try telling that to the thousands of homosexual men and women who receive vicious and sometimes fatal beatings daily for the smallest displays of public affection! The answer to all of these questions is an obvious NO! Today's music biz is all about SHOCKING WORDS & IMAGES and making FAST MONEY! Good old talent got left behind years ago! The reason I take all of this so personally is because I'm a young guy (23) and I feel that my generation of music fans is being CHEATED when compared to the excellent and NO NONSENSE singers, songwriters and musicians that the generations before us were able to enjoy! | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 5-Doyen Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
I hear what everyone is saying & you're right. I found an interesting article today. Maybe this can be the start of a new day: http://kevxml2a.verizon.net/_1 _2F4RTO104N4757P__vzn.isp/apnw s/story.htm?kcfg=apart&sin=D82 4N57G0&qcat=entertain&ran=4392 &passqi=&feed=ap&top=1 Juice | ||
MagyarEd (magyared) 2-Debutant Username: magyared Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.163.98.87 |
"What does classical training have to do with soul music?" here we go....... | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 81 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.129 |
Good article Juice. I can see where the male and the female students are coming from. MagyarEd, What does your question have to do with this topic?............. (Message edited by Rodmann on April 23, 2004) (Message edited by Rodmann on April 23, 2004) | ||
GOAT (goat) 3-Pundit Username: goat Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.228.147.176 |
I have to agree with the article. Rap lost it when 2 live crew filthed it up to XXX. No need to degrade others, or folks to have music. There can be plenty of angry words for our politicians, our environment, racism...but to degrade to get the shock value and exposure?? Too bad, as rap was a great thing in the '80s. Even today there are some great talented rap artists but it's the aszholes in every genre that screw it up for everyone else. | ||
MagyarEd (magyared) 2-Debutant Username: magyared Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.163.99.61 |
Rodmann, you're right. My comment has nothing to do with this topic. It's just that what I'm reading here reminds me of something from our SD past. Sorry; I'll try not to stray off topic in the future. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 85 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.129 |
No, I'm sorry if I sounded hostile MagyarEd. You post what you like. I was just having a hard time tying your question into the topic. No big deal.  | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 4-Laureate Username: westside314 Post Number: 155 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.198 |
Rodmann: 23 with a spirit of 32+ I am not in dissagrement with you, but YES! These artist beleive they are doing something to strengthen society. They get them Young, dumb and full of 'C-M' and wave the money in their faces. When BRITNEY realized that her bread and butter...little WASP girls parents were complaining about her image and what she represented, she send out a press release 'Im now celebate' to win her people back. Stories like this are plentyful in the world of music because it takes a artist to go bad and 'act human' and spend the record companies money and become a liability more than an money maker for them to clean up a persons image...can you find a reason for that Hilton girl being as popular as she is other than her family's money and she dresses and acts like a slut? And remember when she and the family fought tooth and nail to keep her slutty image clean...the sex pictures she took. 'Oh clutch the pearls, the family name will be ruined.' Money Money Money!...no one cares about being socially correct and decent in music anymore. Those who are...are their records selling? Well I hope Prince's does just on how good his music is and not his image, which people CLEARLY expect him to put that zebra skin jock strap back on and sing 'Controversy'...when his is preaching and performing and teaching the principles of what good music is supposed to be. The concrete question with an answer is what do you 'really' begin to do to 'stop the madness'. Something, is possible. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 4-Laureate Username: rodmann Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.129 |
I have no idea how to STOP THE MADNESS Dyva! I was hoping that you would tell me how we can. Dyva, all of this time we've actually been agreeing with each other but you have chosen to try to find something positive about today's music biz and come up with solutions for the problems. That's great! All I've done on this topic is complain and vent! I must sound like a bitter old man! LOL. The first thing I did when I finally got fed up with today's music was give up BET and the radio. Every now and then I listen for a little bit to see if there is something new that I like. I've been doing that less and less lately because I never seem to find anything new that's worth while. The Spelman Collage students in the article that Juice shared with us have the right idea. It's refreshing to see people my age speak out against this nonsense. Besides all of the unnecessary filth, the thing that bothers me the most is the lack of musical talent. Today's "artists" are a disgrace to the rich musical heritage that has been left behind. I kick myself every time I think about all the times between the ages of 5 and 16 that my mother (who's a singer) begged me to take piano, drum, bass and any type of music lesson. I refused because I thought I was too cool. If I knew then what I know now! LOL. One thing that I can do to help the cause is be a positive influence on my 2 year old daughter while she's growing up and encourage her to take music lessons and learn from other POSITIVE musicians and singers. | ||
DyvaNaye (westside314) 4-Laureate Username: westside314 Post Number: 166 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.212.74.198 |
Rodmann, In light of the first half of your comment, it has alot ot do with my line of work...(lol)... We are the consumer...we are also the promoters of this music...DONT BUY IT. Do petitions,write the record companies, protest the concerts, inforce the laws that deal with decency and order that pretains to normalcy in music and life in general, as a approach and what ever apllies where...write the media 'the old papaer trail' NEVER fails...congress: lobby. Etc...etc... It is partially that i can see some good in this music of today and it is because a rare artist comes out and shows them self through all of this madness...and I have a 21 yr old daughter who deserves a chance in this business with out becoming a victim of someone's 'couch'...so to speak. Her morals, values and principles ARE IN ORDER, but the entities that she will eventually have to deal with are 'dispatched demons from hell' who these satanic companies stay on the prowl for. My kid can sing...and I will encourage her to do her 'damn thing' indepedantly before I go to jail trying to kill someone who tries to take advantage of her...I fact, I have convinced her to do 'go independant'...I see mine and her future... | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 5-Doyen Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 224 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
To chime in, as I said in a thread on the old forum, these companies have multiple holdings. They're not just about music. They have other companies & subsidiaries. It's quite easy to discover their interests as they trumpet their holdings for Stock purposes. Boycott their soaps, soft drinks, electronic equipment & movies. People like this don't care about our rants, they care about our dollars. If we stopped giving them our dollars, they'd see things differently. Trust me, money is their God. Although they don't cater to us, they need us. Though they want to sell the music to our youth, they need us "old Schoolers" to buy their high end products & gadgets & their other products. If we started ignoring their products as they've been ignoring us, you can bet your life that things would change. Just talking a little reality here. Juice (Message edited by Juicefree20 on April 23, 2004) | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 2-Debutant Username: vonnie Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.252.166 |
I'm in agreement the promotion is the way to make a song a hit. I hope that Weldon McDougall will come on this thread and give us his story of promoting records. He was the promotion man for Motown records, and I'm sure he can fill us in on what he had to do to get records heard. | ||
Richard Felstead (felstead2001) 2-Debutant Username: felstead2001 Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 128.40.91.183 |
It's a throw away world we live in. Disposable incomes, disposable razors, disposable marriages,relationships and friendships. Recycled this, re-usable that.( music ) Videos and marketing now sell tracks, and not the tracks themselves anymore. Takeaway fast junk food, to irrelevant Bubblegum pop R&B. Plastic money, buy now, pay later. Style over substance. Everything, and I mean everything is all about image over anything morally correct. Force fed advertising images. The need for materialistic gain. Greed is good, more is good. "Don't forget the lottery tickets darlin'" etc, etc, etc. It's called western culture. I could add more regarding certain fragile politcal situations right now, but I think most of you are able to see where I'm going with this. I guess certain cultures have had enough. Please don't missunderstand me for one minute, no one has deserved the results of what certain factions have decided to do in the name of their religion, but you can see why they want to protect themselves from western beliefs and influence. Hell, we're all fed up with it all so............. | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 5-Doyen Username: ladymystique Post Number: 208 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.33.227.122 |
I hope I don't go off the subject by saying that I have NO idea why some of these songs are hits. I mean, IMO, some of these songs have no substance! If for commercial purposes, fine, but at least let the song have some MEAT to it! |
