| Author | Message | ||
  isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 81 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 170.224.224.92 |
During the Salsoul and Felder*Harris discussions the subject of disco and its detractors came up for the umpteenth time, with no clear reasons as to why there was such hatred for the style. That is what it was, a particular style of Rhythm and Blues music, not a genre unto itself... My question to the forum is what were the perceived problems with this style of music??? In light of the fact that there were plenty of ballads and slow and mid-tempo stuff that came out in that era, it could not be based on any dearth of those kinds of songs - or could it??? Just asking... Was it the perceived domination of the airwaves by dance music, or the so-called redundant rhythms of the music(smile!) In short, can anyone at least offer some reasons as to why there is so much hatred around for this particular style of music... Clearly, after a few years, everything starts to get stale, and disco did get wo' out after awhile... Is it possible that it's about the backlash, rather than a dislike for the style when it ruled the day??? What is your take, anyone...? Peace! Isaiah | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 586 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Isaiah, I always felt Disco was given a bad rap. Too bad! The music was real. It had Rhythm. Real musicians. Great arrangements. Everyone dressed well. Compare all that to today's present Rap and Hip Hop scene....... | ||
Spyder Turner (spyder_turner) 4-Laureate Username: spyder_turner Post Number: 121 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 68.42.246.252 |
HEY ISAIAH, BACK IN THE 70'S I WAS WORKING 42 WEEKS A YEAR TRAVALING AROUND THE COUNTRY DOING THE NIGHTCLUB CIRCUIT. WHEN DISCO CAME IN ALL THAT CAME TO AN END BECAUSE THE CLUB OWNERS STOP PUTTING SHOWS IN THEIR CLUBS AND STARTED HIRING DJS. IT WAS A HELL OF A LOT CHEAPER THAN BRINGING IN AN ACT, AND I HAD A TWELVE PIECE BAND AT THAT TIME, SO WHEN THE WORK GOT SCARCE I HAD TO LET THEM GO. I CAN'T SAY THAT I HATE DISCO BECAUSE I DID GET A HIT ON THE ROSE ROYCE ALBUM "IN FULL BLOOM", DURING THAT TIME. BUT I DID CUSS A LOT. I GUESS IT'S LIKE WHEN THE NEW GUY COMES IN AND TAKES YOUR JOB. | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 5-Doyen Username: 1wicked Post Number: 274 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
Isaiah: IMHO, this is the easiest question you have ever posed to the forum !! (LOL) To answer the question, my dislike of disco stems from the following: (1) The emphasis on BPM (beats per minute) and the lack of substance. Lyrical content and true musicianship took a serious dump (overall) during this era. (2) The use of looped electronic "noise"...that could send even the most sane person to "Twin Palms" Psychiatric Ctr. (3) The purging of label rosters ("Classic Soul" mainstays) in order to make room for all of those true "one hit wonders" (4) Bellote & Moroder, The Village People, Meco, Gino Soccio, Lipps, Inc., Alcazar & the like...but primarily that Euro schlock that dominated the period. (Bonus personal reason) The "Studio 54 Syndrome"...that caused every hole in the wall to try & become (like) this this famous club they'd read about & adopt similiar music....while alienating their fan base. | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 5-Doyen Username: dvdmike Post Number: 354 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 65.208.234.85 |
Disco was okay until it became too techno, i.e., Giorgio Moroder, Kano, Gino Soccio, etc. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 83 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.34.39 |
Now, that's a LEGIT answer, Spyder(smile!) Can't knock it, gotta prop it... Now, Ralph, what's all this talk about rhythm and dressing well, man??? You giving me the impression you were a fixture at all the swingin' clubs, man(smile!) Yeah, the kids today are completely the anti-fashion generation - even the so-called neo-soul crew... But all things must come around in due time... There's still hope that they'll turn back to dressing well when this phase of their lives is over... Peace! Isaiah | ||
Richard Felstead (felstead2001) 4-Laureate Username: felstead2001 Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 128.40.91.183 |
Great thread Isaiah. Personally, I loved the music, and I loved the era. As Ralph has already stated the music was real, played with real instruments. At it's peak, disco music was everywhere...... on the radio,in the clubs, and in the charts. Even groups not normally associated with disco music jumped on the bandwagon for a hit or two. Of course, their was disco music that was classy, ie: Was that all it was - Jean Carne Giving it back - Phil Hurtt Darlin' darlin' baby - The O'Jays You got me running - Lenny Williams etc, and you had your cheesy stuff, that frankly, leaves you cold, if you happen to hear it again today, but to answer your question fully, you have to look a lot deeper than just the style of music. In short, it wasn't the music that was hated so much, it was the scene and the people that went to the disco's that were hated and misunderstood. If anyone cares to do a little research by going to various web-sites that cover this form of music, the over riding theme that you gleam from all the information that's on offer, is that "middle white America", were scared of homosexuals. I spent about ten months last year researching this subject for my radio shows on Solar, and I can assure you, that most normal people became paranoid, and actually felt that gay people would take over. Let's face it, whether we care to admit it or not, it was disco music that the gay community latched on to. They felt they could express themselves properly, through the music. In the mid to late seventies, it was a much more care free time. Aids did not appear till much later, so people were quite blatant with their behaviour, and it frightened the majority of hetrosexual americans. Some of the sights at Studio 54 ( probably the most famous disco, in the world ) were pretty outrageous, remember. All the drugs, and the private parties that went on "downstairs" became legend. In the UK, things were a little more relaxed because we tended not to be so paranoid. We took it more in our stride, because our media and press were not so forthcoming with their homomophobic views. I'm not saying anything here that hasn't been well documented anywhere else, but in my opinion, I'd say disco was hated and misunderstood because the gay community latched on to the music. Hetrosexuals that were comfortable with their own sexuality liked it too. I was one of those, and it didn't bother me at all. My liberal views were not the norm though back then. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.33.135 |
Well, well, Richard, now that's a VERY interesting perspective(smile!) I never thought that homophobia might be part of the picture... Deep!(smile!) Now, I know of a bunch of clubs here in New York, particularly the Paradise Garage, Larry Levan's spot, that was a world famous Gay hangout, but not all clubs, obviously, catered to a Gay clientele... These clubs in Brooklyn, for example - uh uh(smile!) Lots of clubs in Manhattan were considered "meat markets", places where cats went specifically to meet the ladies... How the scene gets all confused with alternative lifestyles sounds completely right-wing conservative hysteria stuff... But an excellent perspective, Richard... Let's see how many endorse this... Peace! Isaiah | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 86 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.33.135 |
1Wicked & DvdMike, yes, the techno stuff rubbed me the wrong way at times, but that was not the majority of so-called disco/dance music of the period... A great deal of the music of the period is Philadelphia International's and Salsoul's output, along with the Chic's, Rose Royce's, Melba Moore's, Linda Clifford's, Side Effect, South Shore Commission, the BeeGees, and I could go on endlessly... Throws a bit of a chink in that argument, fellaz(smile!) 1Wicked, did you speak on one-hit wonders???(smile!) Come on, now, this is one we've covered quite a bit at this forum... There were a whole lot more one-hit wonders in the '50's and '60's than there were bonafide stars that consistently produced great music... The problem in the late 1970's dance era was much the same as it is now, with the role of producers, and those producers as stars, and not the artists... Nevertheless, I'm not here to defend disco, so I accept your reasoning as legitimate. As one who enjoyed dancing, and was not all that concerned with the depth of the lyrics when doing so, I was good to go... Remember, 1Wicked, Bananafanafofana wasn't exactly no deep lyricism(smile!) Peace! Isaiah | ||
roger (roger) 5-Doyen Username: roger Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.35.87.17 |
Hello Everyone. Great subject for a thread Isaiah, and one that I've thought of raising myself a few times!! In the "Felder and Harris" thread Juice mentions that in the Anti-Disco backlash people "Threw the baby out with the bathwater" and that is EXACTLY how I would describe it. Speaking totally personally ( as a white English male who discovered "Soul" music in the late 60's ), I feel that some of the best music ever came out in the so called "Disco Era", especially in the early years ( 1973-76 ). To my ears tracks like "Once More With Feeling" by THE WHISPERS, "Helplessly" by MOMENT OF TRUTH, "Night to Remember" by EDDIE HOLMAN ( and hundreds of others from that time ) are equal in quality to anything before or since. To me the "disco" sounds of 1973/4/5/6 were just a new, fresh update of dancable "Soul"/"R&B" Those first records I mentioned are relatively unknown outside Soul fans but huge international mega-hits like "Rock Your Baby" by GEORGE McRAE, "Boogie Oogie Oogie" by TASTE OF HONEY, "The Love I Lost" by HAROLD MELVIN or "Le Freak" by CHIC also still sound good to me. The later era, ( 1977-1980) did see a disturbing influx of trashy sounding ( mainly British/European records) and I don't think that standards were so high, but even so I still find it utterly bewildering the way that so many Americans still seem to shudder at the very term "disco". Around 1990 or so, I used to trade music tapes with a D.J./Pen-Pal I had in Sacramento California, and one one of the tapes I compiled I included "Just Can't Give You Up" by MYSTIC MERLIN, amongst a selection of "Mellow/Funky/Jazzy" favourites. To my ears this particular track is a tremendous Jazzy/Dance track that happens to have been recorded around 1980, but his response I found amazing, apparently it was "Disco" and the "Driving Beat" would mean that it was ( back then at least) a total No-No for him to play at any of his gigs. He did hint though that he, personally, actually LIKED it!! So where did it all go wrong. To me, the backlash occurred when, in the wake of the "Saturday Night Fever" movie various "Country" and "Rock" acts started to make records with a "disco" sound .. e.g. "I Miss You" by THE ROLLING STONES, "Do You Think I'm Sexy" by ROD STEWART, plus various recordings by people as diverse as DOLLY PARTON and THE BEACH BOYS. Putting it bluntly, some people ( usually non R&B/Soul fans ) have just never understood the appeal of being in a nightspot and dancing to recorded music. They could safely ignore the phenomenon when it was the preserve of socially peripheral groups .. "Gays" as Richard has mentioned, also the Black and/or Latino people who generally made the music, and various ( often white and "straight" ) urban sub-cultures in cities like New York and in certain parts of England!! Once their own musical heroes started to dabble with "disco" it became another matter!! Roger | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 5-Doyen Username: 1wicked Post Number: 275 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
DVD Mike: That is the sound that IS disco to most that were in a capacity to see the tides changing. Euro schlock. Most music leading up to that period would be considered "Danceable R&B" (WRT most artists discussed her). There seems to be a tendency to call anything that was played IN a disco or anything you could dance to that was released during a certain time period "Disco music"...and that would be far from true. Take for example "Darlin' Darlin' Baby" (as I look at Richard's post). This is a timeless piece...and had it appeared on "Ship Ahoy" or on anything released from 1985 on, no one would consider it a disco song. Taco's "Puttin' On The Ritz" was (cheezy)disco. Gino Soccio's "Dancer was disco. "Darlin' Darlin' Baby" or "The Love I Lost" ?? Not hardly...no matter how many spins they got in the clubs !! Spyder: I hear ya !! I was in retail record then...and I saw good selling artists like The Manhattans and Tyrone Davis get dumped by their labels...and others try & change their style (losing their fan base) just to compete during that time period. I didn't realize what disco did to the touring/live side of things until a bit later. Isaiah: WRT fashion...maybe there is a change in the mix. If you check out most of the recent periodicals, many of today's rap and "other" vocal stars (I can't bring myself to call 'em R&B or "singers") are doing layouts in suits & ties. Perhaps it's the vision of the art director...but I'm hoping it's a new trend. Also.'ve noticed that several of the major hip hop clothing entities (Sean John, Phat Farm, & others) are heavily promoting their business wear lines this fall. Maybe...just maybe.... | ||
Chi Drummer (chidrummer) 4-Laureate Username: chidrummer Post Number: 144 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 24.15.230.109 |
I think the hatred of Disco is two fold. Part of the problem was how the music was constructed. The other was the "scene" Disco engendered. Middle-class America grew to dislike both. Points were well made by Richard, 1wicked and Rodger. I would tie some of those threads together to answer Isaiah's question this way: What happened to disco was definitely a backlash from mostly middle-class white males, who by 1978, felt surrounded by music that was created by, played by and made for (your choice of combinations) Black/Latino, gay, well-dressed, Europeans. The music was everywhere, by their perception and was considered a direct attack on Rock and Roll. The last straw was the Stones and Rod Stewart jumping on the bandwagon. This perception was the breeding ground for what Chicago (and the world) knows as the Disco Demolition. Even the creators of the event, Steve Dahl and Garry Meier had no idea their little stunt would have the kind of impact it did. The event gave the rest of middle-class America an excuse to do what they'd been wanting to do anyway...take that annoying dance music off the air and get back to some good ole' Rock and Roll. | ||
zebop (zebop) 4-Laureate Username: zebop Post Number: 128 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
I remember that stunt in Chicage when I was a kid, I thought it was vile. Even then I knew what the subtext was. Coincidentally, good disco as I knew it was also coming to a close, but the turn of the decade--all those things and more contributed to the end of it. What so bad about disco? Nothing, really but after a certain time, the sound got annoying. There was a point where all of those r&b acts who got that big disco hit couldn't come close to matching it again. That's a lot of careers that went down the tubes--and created total BS. I do have to disagree with the cutoff date of disco. The stuff from the '80s is dance music to me, polished, synth-based r&b or not. Disco IMO ended around December 31, 1979... | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2257 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
I think that Spyder, Richard & Wicked are on point with their assessments. Yes, Disco music sounded the death knell for many live groups. When you think about it, Discos & DJs made a lot of sense for many different reasons. For one thing, as a DJ, we played a variety of songs & a club owner couldn't possibly hire all of those bands & artists every night. Too cost prohibitive. From a purely economic standpoint, DJs made sense for club owners. I can understand how artists would hate what took their jobs. Also to be considered were those stupid label heads that followed the trend & even turned a Jazz singer like Arthur Prysock into a Disco King. Their insistence that their R&B stars go Disco helped no one. They bought into the glitz & hype, rather than allow their artists do what they did best & whose music, by the way, was the essence of Disco music in the first place. The label heads effectively killed the veteran Soul stars careers. Let's face it, it was much easier for them to come up with nameless, faceless studio concoctions (who would require little grooming & commitment), then to continue to invest in the careers of the veteran Soul artists. The artists who just happened to know their way around issues like publishing, royalties, etc. It was cheaper for them to pour money into these one hit wonders, who were quite disposable. At that point, the labels were into pushing records, not artists. If a record hit, an artist could play damn near 10 track dates a night....30 minutes at one club, 30 minutes at another club & get paid. No band to pay, no dissension within the group. The label owners were in heaven....until the unsold records started being returned in 1979. The Disco that everyone hated indeed was ushered in by the Euro Disco producers mentioned by Wicked. And as Richard points out, that music was definitely latched onto by the Gay community. In fact, many of the producers & remixers of that music, came from the Gay community. Their music flipped everything around, to the point that original groups like The Trammps & Chic were on the wane, while Sylvester, et.al began to take off. These producers wrote from a decidely pro-female lyrical standpoint & conversely, from an insider standpoint, Gays as well. Whereas, in the beginning, most of the Disco Stars were men, (with a little Carol Douglas & Ecstasy, Passion & Pain sprinkled in), now the womans voice was heard loud & strong. Those producers wrote music that seemed to speak from a womans' sensibility & again, one can't simply ignore the Gay overtones as well. The last thing that sealed Discos' fate to be hated was when it went mainstream America. Once something goes mainstream, damned if they don't take all kinds of poetic & creative license with it. The finished product never seems to be a accurate depiction of real life. First of all, some jackass came up with a totally unrealistic view of Disco life. Let's take Saturday Night Fever as an example. Now, John Travolta may have been cool & all that, HOWEVER!!!! John would have gotten his ass royally stomped if he tried to clear an entire dance floor whlie dancing like a Russian. They didn't do that crap in any club that I played at, or, went to. Not in Brooklyn, not in Queens & damn sure not in Manhattan. If they did, it was only after seeing Saturday Night Fever, bet on that. Saturday Night Fever was a complete parody of the Disco experience as a whole & frankly, with apologies to Mr Stigwood, et.al, was total bullshit & a misrepresentation of what I knew club life to be like. Movies like that are what you end up with when people steal a culture from others, then distort & twist it all to fit their idea of how it SHOULD BE. I defy any or you to walk into a New York City club, slide across the ENTIRE dance floor while on your knees, spin across the ENTIRE club & kick out your feet, while doing a Kossack dance. Try it sometime! If that movie had been real, John would've punched at least 30 people in the face, knocked over another 75 & we'd have heard about it the next day on the news...."BERZERK DISCO MAN GOES CRAZY IN CLUB, GETS SATURDAY NIGHT BEATING FROM 250!!!" You could do all of that on The Soul Train Line, not in a club filled with 300 people who paid their hard earned money to dance, not to watch some guy bogarting the dance floor. You only had that kind of free reign when they had dance contests. The "King Of The Disco" my buttocks!! In my club, there were MANY Kings & Queens of the dance floor, not just one. I guess that it was a long way from Brownsville to Bensonhurst at that! They other thing is that many people associated Studio 54 with the ENTIRE, much less, the REAL Disco experience. Studio 54 was not the Disco experience that most of us in New York had. We didn't dress in feathers, we didn't work in paint stores & we weren't that damn dysfunctional. We were hard-working folks who partied on the weekend & let our hair down a bit. WE DID usually find a new friend along the way. Hey, priviledge was its own reward  For worse, the images of Saturday Night Fever & Thank God It's Friday (a truly insipid movie) are the images of Disco that resonates in the minds of most. Factor in the weekly images of Dance Fever (SORRY DENNY) & other Disco shows & well, you have a not too pretty chronicle of the Disco Experience. The REAL Disco experience was great!!! | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 5-Doyen Username: 1wicked Post Number: 276 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
Isaiah: First of all...I'm glad I wasn't drinking a Coke or cup of coffee when you dropped that "Bananafanafofana" line !! You would have owed me a keyboard (and I'm still ROTFLMBAO) !! Low blow, Isaiah....you get points taken away ! (1) Of the groups you listed, only the Bee Gee's would be considered a "Disco" group (though their careers pre-dated disco & lived beyond it.) The others were R&B acts or vocalists that were viable OR had hits during the time period. Again I state: Because a song/group was played IN a disco does not make it a disco song/group. WRT labels...Salsoul was built around club play & made a conscious effort to deliver "disco music" (though much of their output was (again) "Danceable R&B...think SKYY or Aurra). PIR, on the other hand did NOT take as active a role in "Disco"....but got the airplay and club spins doing what they had been doing. For "Love Is The Message" or "The Love I Lost" to be as big in the disco's as they were was a testament to the quality song crafting, excellent musicianship, and overall universal appeal to those songs and many others. Now, WRT "One Hit Wonders"...I wasn't putting a negative slant on the subject..just speaking from the knowledge that "Disco" was a producer's medium. "Disco" was sooo hot that labels were signing any & everyone that fit their perceived disco mold and producers were getting the same basic vocalists signed to multiple labels under different names. It was all about getting the product out there..to the DJ pools and clubs and "creating" a hit....and (from my personal experience) there was NEVER a time when more product from VARIOUS artists was dropped in the stores. Stores were bombarded weekly with new material...75% of it Euro Schlock. There was little, if any, artist development...and if one song happened to hit, there was little or no time to work on the next single because the producer was working on something "current" or his next "big thing"...and had no time to get back to said "artist". The fact that they may have been "One Hit Wonders" was the nature of the business...not anything they may have done wrong. (Message edited by 1wicked on September 07, 2004) | ||
Kdubya (paladin) 5-Doyen Username: paladin Post Number: 259 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 206.185.64.23 |
You guys really have something to say and theres not much that I could add, true disco music ushered in a new era in social circles that it was ok to be gay. 2. It also provided the back drop to celebrate the art of dance, be it with man-woman,woman-woman or mano-mano. To me this was a good thing because I have always loved to dance. Thirdly, through the wonders of the media (radio/TV/movies) this behavior was beamed and talked abut from coast to coast. The Village Poeple became poster childs for the gay movement and love was in the air. Disco to me was long playing records with just enough funk to throw down a mean step or two on a saturday night. I think that as you all have noted that when the soul artists were pressured into making disco music just to chase the dollar for the record company sucked royally. I have gone back through the crates of my record collection and I'll be damed if I wont find a album or two or three where groups like the Tempts or Manhattans and many others have a stinky disco effect record out that didn't sell diddley and I say to myself ...this is why this record is in perfect condition, I could'nt stand it then and I cant stand it now.......jeez and just about every producer in the world had to have strings in the music, shades of The San Remo Golden Strings..but other than that....... Kdubya | ||
Richard Felstead (felstead2001) 4-Laureate Username: felstead2001 Post Number: 115 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.92.194.17 |
Wow, some fantastic points people. I love my soul, I love my jazz, and I love my modern gospel, but I gotta tell ya it all started with me, with disco, or club music, whatever you wanna call it. As always Juice, ya had me rollin' about, but most people's points are pretty spot on. The plain and simple fact is what killed disco was disco. It beacame too popular, and once something becomes mainstream, it is usually over. Yes Saturday Night Fever played it's part in the downfall, and I agree, Thank God It's Friday was dire, but remember we also had Car Wash. Rose Royce was formed by Norman Whitfield for the sole purpose of that film, as many of know, I'm sure. No one can knock their success, in fact they are still credible today, because they recorded many fine tunes, on the more funky tip. For me Chi summed it up perfectly, as I did my research, white homophobic US radio of the time would not allow disco to dominate any longer. It had become too successful for it's own good, and mainstream radio had had enough. Bear in mind people that there hasn't really been a style of music that has captured the imagination of "joe public" in the way that disco has, ever since, and we are talking nearly 30 years on. That is some achievment. Of course, there is good and bad disco music. As far as lyrics are concerned, who the hell wants to put the world to rights, when you're dancin' to some bad ass boogie ? !!!!! :-))))) However, Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes achieved this which the anthemic "Wake Up Everybody". Gloria Gaynor summed it up best for me, when she said fairly recently, that, and I quote, " Disco never really died, it just evolved". How right she is, house music, garage and soulful garage are all modern day evolutions of disco. Masters at work,and Blaze, could contribute most of their influences having come from the disco era, and their Latino ethnic background. It lives on, and I for one, will be forever grateful. ( wink ) | ||
Manny (manny) 6-Zenith Username: manny Post Number: 438 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.51.4 |
Hello Submarine to all! This is a thread about a very complex subject. It's very hard for starting to define what is disco music. Is a music style? Can we talk about Disco in the same level as we can talk about Soul or Jazz or Folk? Was Disco born and died in specific years? How was lived the "Disco" experience in spanish music club and radios? When I was aged betwen 10-14 years old, here in my town have some "Clubs" (not called "Discos") where plays James Brown, Isaac Hayes, Bar-kays. My oldier sister come to these locals ans told me what music were plays and she got some of these singles or heard it at radio and says "this song plays every saturday at "El Sol" (The Sun) Club). Also played slow ballads (from "Je t'Aime, Moi Non Plus" to "Me & Ms. Jones". Also remember at these same years the smash hit by George McCrae with the drum machine in the intro and the stores full of "Miami Sound" - "Soul Explosion" singles. Little after the Miami "Soul Explosion" logo was replaced by "Disco Explosion" logo (Hues Corportion, Betty Wright). After, at 14 yeras old I discovered the Philly Sound ( I knows previously some songs) and i was captivated for the strings and horns and the soulful vocals. At the same restaurant where i discovered Phillysound (two compilations) also were some Barry White albums and a compilation by ABC records called "Ultrasonidos para discotecas Vol. 1". The artists: Jad Trumpet, Mamas & Papas, Barry McGuire, Four Tops, Rufus,... (???!!!). This was in 1976 and much after I have read by many spanish music criticals this was the last year of soul and the "birth" of disco. Many "hippies" talks very bad about all the black music. Except jazz, all is disco. If some soul artist plays with Rolling Stones (as Stevie Wonder), this artist "was a exception" because got the recognition by a Rock musician (!!!???). Curiously when at 18 years I started to work in a Disco (at this moment the word "discotheque" was used and appears at the neon letterings), the people danced with Marianne Faithful, Talkin Heads and Mike Oldfield more than with Salsoul, Motown or PIR R&B danceable material. Simultaneously comes the euro-disco (Boney M, etc.) and progressively the music that were played in the discos becomes more and more "txun-da txun-da" until the "M�quina-Bakalao". I'm totally agree with 1Wicked. "Darlin' Darlin' Baby" is SOUL music (danceable and a treasure also for heard at home!). Of the entire PIR catalogue, IMHO only "Strut Your Funky Stuff" by Frantique deserves the adjective of Disco without some other consideration. Epilogue: what is disco? perhaps is only a word invented by a bussines-man. Ricky Vincent in his book "Funk", says that after 1976, many radio-stations stoped playing soul music and only played disco-oriented music without message in his lyrics. No more "soul" and no more social-concerned lyrics in the radio from 1977 on. From this time on this author consider that the only Funk bands who can keep on produce quality music were the self-contained bands who were more free about the "manipulation" aspect of the "producers" and bussines mans. Perhaps the bad disco music was simply the "fast food" of funk that wants the public (or the bussines man) for consume speedy at the dancefloor and for replace it speedy and constantly by others. Allways have had bad and good danceable music. There are good jazz danceable as Charlie Parker's "Tico Tico" or Duke Ellington's "Caravan". There are classically Vals (as "Blue Danuby"!!). There are good soul and funky danceable as "September" by EW&F or Double Exposure's "Everyman". Or also good latin music by Fania All-Stars. Those music can be also heard at home enjoying it. Some bussinesmen and some ignorants says this was disco and put it under the same umbrella with Boney M? They got enough problem with his ignorance. Peace & Soul Food | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 6-Zenith Username: ladymystique Post Number: 660 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 216.37.228.103 |
I loved disco in that to me it brought many people together. I mean you had the FUNK people, the POP people, and the R&B people, but when DISCO came on, it was universal. I for one love disco music! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1564 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.50.48 |
Hey Juice, Your post of 9-7- at 3:04 pm still has me rolling on the floor. What you said was SO true, my friend, and only you could have said it like that! FYI, back in '79 when I was doing things at A&M records, they wanted me to produce a 'disco" album on the Tijuana Brass!!!! There were even some blurbs that leaked out into the music press. Would that have sealed the nail in the coffin, or what??!@#$^*()+ Mahronne!!!!! (sorry paulie) | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 5-Doyen Username: dvdmike Post Number: 362 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 65.208.234.85 |
Juice, that was one of THE best posts I have ever seen in this forum! You're funny. TOMMY: Funny how? | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 89 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 170.224.224.134 |
Great comments, 1Wicked, Kdubya, Chi Drummer, and Juice! Yall all got me smiling(smile!) Peace! Isaiah | ||
Moan (moanman) 2-Debutant Username: moanman Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.119.145.245 |
Disco? I�m not a hater, pa. Far from it. Personally, I had the time of my life in the clubs, styling, tryna be profiling and hustling to cuts by like MFSB�s �It�s Summertime�, GQ�s �Disco Nights�, The Blackbyrds �Rock Creek Park,� etc. etc. etc. Hell, I even won a dance contest cutting a mean rug to War�s �Galaxy�. I think it was that very cool, well-timed *dip* that shook the judges, but I digress. I dug & purchased a maddening amount of disco music, back when I was young and foolish. The pulse and beat and urgency of its form gave true party freaks some memorable tunes and unforgettable moments. Barry brought us lush orchestrations, and killa arrangements. Much of it was music to dance to and /or get laid by. Can�t be too mad with that, right? Cats like Don Ray and Juggy Murray Jones brought an edgy vitality to the table, while folks like Mandrill, while not technically "disco", bumped up a more tribal influence-- and it was all good. There was a *quality* of musicianship mixed in with the talentless, ridic and the sublime. It was your basic good time music, man. Chic�s �Dance Dance Dance� and �Freak Out� and Norma Jean�s �Saturday� these were staples, damn near *anthems* to the mindless diversion and frivolity of the time. And if the DJ deemed to spin some Funkadelic� yo, then it was over, and the floor was packed. Maaaaaan, many of us lived for that ish. Remember The O'Jays "Livin' For The Weekend"? Well, trust, that sentiment didn't lie. But what it lacked, for the most part, was meaningful lyrics. That concept was exchanged for fun and frantic/romantic escape. With a few exceptions, the True Singers seemed to disappear from the scene. Not good for them, our ears and emotions, nor for the state of good and lasting music. Then it went all electronic and pumped up the volume of gadgetry, and the soul was lost. The beat increased, and it all began to feel robotic and not half as danceable, original or quixotic as it once was. Still, give me some Savannah Band vamping it up, some MFSB jazzing it up, throw in some Barry lusting it up, and you had the makings of a serious parrrrr-tay, baby! One. p.s. urruh, Juice. You wile, man. You wile. lol. | ||
Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce) 3-Pundit Username: lynn_bruce Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.107.18 |
Spyder hit it on the head for working musicians.It was the begining of the end for live music in the Detroit area. All thru the 60s full-time jobs as a musician were plentiful in the Detroit area and all over America In 1972 I was playing drums with Mr.Bo and the Bluesboys.We had jobs and clubs all over Detroit to work in 6 NIGHTS A WEEK!! Flash forward to 1977.I was working with a local Detroit group called the Blue Notes. We were working as many one nighters in the Detroit area as we wanted to book. As we rolled into the 80s.We would see less and less clubs with live music. We started doing weddings, private parties, back yard graduation gigs,anything to keep it going. Remember when it was tacky to have someone playing records at a wedding instead of a live band?? When we first started doing weddings,it was all bands in the multi-room halls. As the eighties rolled by,we saw less and less bands and more djs. One time we were carrying our instruments into a Roma hall(a big wedding spot in Detroit at one time)and this bartender came up and said" THANK GOD a live band,all I hear anymore is damn canned music and I'm going nuts!!!---That's when I knew the good life was over. We still worked but the jobs got less and less. For a joke I said we ought to advertise as a dj with a live band on the djs breaks.That way we could take long breaks with no one bitching about how long we were off and just play records on our breaks as long as we wanted.LOL After working together from 1977 till about 1999,we kind of lost heart and just kind of drifted apart.It just wasn't worththe effort to keep practicing new songs for that once or twice a month gig. The sad thing is these guys were kick-ass musicians that could play good blues,rock,standards,latin,coc ktail music,or even polkas and tarentellas. It's gotta be rough for the young musicians starting out-- to lay out all that money for an instrument and practice for hours,and then have so few places to play. I guess us older musicians really had it made and didn't know it by being able to make it as a full time musician without working a day job. I for one am really greatful that I played in the 60s as a musician.It was a great time to be a musician in Detroit!!! P.S.--I really liked playing disco,you could move around the drums and still keep that disco beat cooking.Little did I know that the drum machine was beating down the door to get in on the gigs.LOL | ||
Spyder Turner (spyder_turner) 4-Laureate Username: spyder_turner Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 68.42.246.252 |
it was r&b until people without rythym DISCO-vered the beat. HAHAHA, LOL | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2280 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Spyder, That's so true. Some folks were tripping all over themselves trying to dance to those James Brown syncopated beats. Al Jackson had that little hesistation beat working. I can see it now! It must have went something like this: "Man, I'm so confused! DUDE!!! Like do I clap on the ONE, or do I clap on the 2????" The producers saw this & said: "Hmmmm......this isn't good. These folks are getting mixed up, stumbling around from vertigo & just don't look very hip. Hmmm....let's see.....EUREKA, THAT"S IT!!! I'VE GOT IT!!!!! Everyone can count to FOUR...THAT'S THE TICKET!!!!" That Euro Disco was a steady 4 on the floor & now, even the rhythmically challenged could get their boogie on. HOWEVER............. Some folks still can't figure out what beat to clap to. That's why many still clap on every beat. It sounds more like a square dance to me...... "OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, Stand up straight, prominade Boogie to this Disco beat we made...YEEHAHHH!!! Swing your wife, swing 'er low Kick 'er in the butt & she'll let go....YEEHAHHH!! NOW DOSEY-DO YOUR PARTNER!!! HMMM....Disco giveth.....SOUL TAKETH AWAY Now, where's Shabba Doo & Rerun when we need them (Message edited by juicefree20 on September 08, 2004) | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 589 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Lynn, How you nailed it! We all worked six nights a week during the 60s. Monday nights off and more than likely ending up at Rose's to see who was sitting in. At one time I would tell out of town musicians that if they had anything going at all, no matter what genre, they could make a good living playing in Detroit. Too bad things changed. My brother and I ALWAYS credit the amount of time we spent playing to our success. We once did about six months in NYC and had four nights off the whole time. Those were good days Lynn as you well know. | ||
Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce) 3-Pundit Username: lynn_bruce Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.107.18 |
Juice,that clapping on beat. If you want to see a drummer go nuts,just set him down with a lot of of white folks (and I'm white) trying to clap along with a song. I don't know why God did that to white folks when it came to a sense of time,but sure as shit they'll be claping on the beat unless someone starts it for them.LOL | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2281 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hey Lynn, Let me tell you a inside secret. Now, this has been a guarded secret for generations, so you'll have to promise never to divulge this. Ok...here goes (sniff, sniff). This malady (sniff, sniff) also affects (Gasp) BLACK people too (SOB, SOB)!!! Yes (Sniff, sniff), that's true. I said it, because I had to get that (sob) monkey off of my back (HEAVY SOBBING!!!!). And they don't even have a charity or a telethon for it either!!! First O.J., then Michael & now this!!!! I'm sorry that I just let this skeleton out of the closet. I only hope that my brethren will (sniff, sniff) for(sniff)give me. (HEAVY WAILING!!!!!) | ||
Chi Drummer (chidrummer) 4-Laureate Username: chidrummer Post Number: 157 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 24.15.231.253 |
Lynn, Didn't you know that all but the very coolist white folks are genetically designed to clap on one and three? They can also clap ON the beat if it's very simple. This is why polkas are so popular. Or so I've been told... | ||
Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce) 3-Pundit Username: lynn_bruce Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.107.18 |
Chi,LOL,but hell even the polka has a strong back beat on two and four---but they still gotta clap on one and three. Juice, I grew up in Inkster pretty much an African American community plus I was the token honky in a black blues band and seeing some black people dance with two left feet,I know what you mean.(of course THOSE people probably had a lot of white blood in them)LOL | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1572 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 70.16.133.145 |
Not for nothin(sorry paulie) but I get vertigo watching most white people try to dance, and Im kind of white,(whatever that is) but not 100%. I hate going out to white clubs for that reason, and if I do I usually close my eyes, and I have to leave because I feel as if I need some medicine for vertigo. Now, i am not a dancer on the outdide, but on the indide I feel as if I could be in the Soul Train Line!! Sometimes when I watch an old bandstand kinescope I actually get dizzy watching those spastic kids do whatever that thing is that they do, and just think, this was supposed to be a groundbreaking tv show. For me, it was heartbreaking watching all those white kids tring to find the beat!! | ||
Charise (mistrivia1) 6-Zenith Username: mistrivia1 Post Number: 553 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
LOL- ELI!!!! HA HA HA!!!! P.S. Got your email Good for you! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1574 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 70.16.133.145 |
..now on another note.. folks gotta have riddim for other tings too..nah mean?? So if the dancin thing aint hap'nin then what about.. ahem ..dem udder t'ings, capice??!@#$%^&* you GOTS to have it together in the sack too, capice??(a groove is a groove is a groove!! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1575 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 70.16.133.145 |
BTW.. Could y'all just picture Lawrence Welk in the sack.. a one-a an- a -two-a an- a - thhree-a ooh baby on the one and three to a polka beat!! | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 5-Doyen Username: dvdmike Post Number: 366 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 65.208.234.85 |
Lawrence Welk got on the phone and said, "Operator, give me a-one-and-a-two" "Thank-a you for those funky tunes" | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1597 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.162.127.40 |
All right Mike!! Time for some of that Gangsta Polka!!! Roll out the barrel(of the nine) Nothin but a "P" thang K.W.A.-- Keeshkas With Attitude Kill Baasi Polka with my baby daddy | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2296 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Bobby, Don't forget that they must do it "IN BOOGIE MOTION"!!! Cause that's the way, uh huh, uh, huh, they like it, uh huh, uh huh!!! | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 5-Doyen Username: dvdmike Post Number: 370 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 4.158.75.90 |
I'm looking for the "Disco Polka Swing" LP by Stosh from Osh Kosh | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 6-Zenith Username: robb_k Post Number: 519 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.232.148.63 |
I also think Disco music got a bad rap. To me, it was just a version of fast seventies and eighties soul. Alot of it was shlock (too much techno, too much repitition, etc. ) but a lot of it was also good. Most of it is not my style (although my own record label produced a lot of it). but I can appreciate good work by the musicians, arrrangers and yes, even writers!!! on some of the better quality disco records. I guess I liked the fast soul that was "fringe" disco. I probably wouldn't like most of the songs with a lot of repitition, and funny, modern instruments and machine-generated sound. | ||
funkcity (funkcity) 2-Debutant Username: funkcity Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.162.75.102 |
Disco Lives! Well it has been morphed for the worse! While at the gym yesterday there was a constant barrage of commercial free electronically produced "world" disco music blaring from the overhead speakers. No real instruments, shitty sounding drum machines/samples etc... I had to leave! It just about drove me crazy!! So I asked.... What is the source? The guy behind the desk said it was from the satellite TV music station. hmm... ****** But back in the 70s and early 80s the recording studios..LOTS OF THEM, were doing rhythm, horns, string, vocal overdub sessions and everyone was working...the musicians,engineers,producers. ..everyone.. and Disco had a lot to do with that. And despite all the fantastic technology of today, something has been lost ...in a dramatic fashion I might add! | ||
Tenyu (tenyu) 1-Arriviste Username: tenyu Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 69.201.129.151 |
http://www.beatsandwords.com/a udio/tenyu.ram | ||
Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce) 3-Pundit Username: lynn_bruce Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.107.18 |
Ralph,Roses bar is still there on Vernor.We go to mass at St.Anns by the Ambassator bridge and come down Vernor.Every time I pass it I get flashbacks.I remember standing out in front on it in 1960 on my breaks and getting a lesson by this Baptist guy walking by on why I should be saved. The monday night band jamborees.When I;d have Marcus Terry,myself,Johnny Echo,Norman Sands,all of us drummers doing round robin drum solos on my one set.We'd end up with all of us playing one drum and the crowd loving it. All the musicians that would show up on monday jam sessions would have free beer tabs,plus it was a good way to show club owners that were there what your band had,so we always were packed on those jam session nights. I remember after the gigs getting together with other bands at the Mexican Village,Grecian Gardens,or we would all go to Pompeiis in Dearborn to listen or sit in to the all night jazz jam sessions there. All these memories come flooding back every sunday when I pass Roses bar. The place is still there,but not open right now and kind of lonley looking. So many great Detroit musicians came thru those funky-ass doors. If only we'd had a vidio camara to tape those jam sessions!! A lot of musicians spirits that have passed must stop in there to jam,, All these things come flying into my head EVERY sunday whenI pass that funky run down boarded-up bar called Roses. | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 605 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Lynn, Thanks for the update on Roses. I suppose I would have been suprised if the place was still open.Thanks for jogging my memory on a host of things Lynn. It is too bad video cameras weren't around back then. Can you imagine..........? | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2346 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
So, to sum this up, in my opinion there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with good SOUL dance music! Disco was nothing more than WHERE we gathered to dance! Now, mass produced, mainstream Disco was another matter!!! DISCO WAS GREAT & SO WERE THE TIMES!!!! | ||
Bob Olhsson (bob_olhsson) 2-Debutant Username: bob_olhsson Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.247.222.95 |
The first disco records were really great. Unfortunately it quickly turned into a fad that resulted in a series of the most cheaply produced, non-innovative records in history. It also became mostly producer-oriented with the singer being treated as an afterthought. The clubs cheaping out and dropping live music heaped insult onto injury. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2347 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
And the live music industry hasn't been the same since. The venue owners cite the expense of hiring live bands& insurance costs. Considering what they want to pay & the costs of keeping a band together, makes it pretty rough going. Makes you wonder where the musicians of the future will come from??? |
