Soulful Detroit » Archives - July 2004 » Do You All Believe There's Any Music In Motown's Vault Of JJ Barnes? « Previous Next »

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Don (don)
6-Zenith
Username: don

Post Number: 757
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.174.61
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

?????????????????????????????? ????????????????????
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
6-Zenith
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 652
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.79.102.189
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably So~
Isn;t one of the reasons he wasn't as popular as the other Male Soul Singers back in the day is because he sounded too much like Marvin Gaye? and it would've been too much competition.
So, All is fair in Love & War, but not in Music?
Whoa~
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Don (don)
6-Zenith
Username: don

Post Number: 758
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.174.61
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You may be right Medusa. I been surfing the net since I got started but. I heard dozens upon dozen
of masters, sub copy masters and acetate yrs ago that would make a person's head spin. I'm hearing alot of now just unrelease tracks on Marvin that I heard JJ was cutting. I seem or assume that if Motown has alot of JJ's stuff in the cans, or not?That's why I started this thread in the first place and to see what other's have to say about it. Maybe it's pure speculation but who's to/can say. From what I heard of newer unreleased tracks by Marvin (all of a sudden?), I wonder if Motown just simply erased JJ off done tracks and Marvin just simply went in & redid the songs over again?? I been hearing about the Marvin vs. JJ situation for about 2 yrs now. One thing remains clear....Marvin had the stroke, juice & power to uh- .

Don
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Don (don)
6-Zenith
Username: don

Post Number: 759
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.174.61
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I heard many yrs ago was
"Sweet Thing" (I know about)
"Sweeter As The Days Goes By" (I also heard)
"Love Starved Heart"
and a few more I heard about I'll post later.

Don
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 81
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.229.69.231
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don,

I just want to take this opportunity to tell you how much I enjoy your posts at SD. Everytime I read your posts I always learn something AND I go back and read it again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Thanks so much for your contributions at SD and for enlightening this hometown (Detroit) girl.

(((Hugs)))

Arcadia
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Don (don)
6-Zenith
Username: don

Post Number: 761
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.174.61
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Arcadia,
I'am from Chicago but I know some of the D's roots. I know JJ Barnes been making music before Marvin Gaye came. It's safe to say that it must have given Marvin alot of panic attacks, because JJ could write his own material which it wasn't hard for him to do. No, I'm not here to gossip nor to start a verbal music forum war, I just want to talk about the music cause I do respect Marvin Gaye's contributions too. I had the pleasure and the oppurtunity to meet alot of folk from your hometown and other parts of the Michigan region. I wish could tell us about his trip to The Big D this summer. I wish that JJ could elaborate on some of his recollections on some of the sessions of songs he's recorded at Hitsville and/or the now defunct and torn down remains of Studio B (originally Golden World/Ric-Tic, etc) another one of my favorite studio/labels in your hometown of long ago. If other's that we're around and in the know that wishes not to parttake in this thread, I do understand (SITSOM). Also I'll be posting soon so keep looking for this thread, ok?

Thank you again Arcadia
Don
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 82
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.229.114.58
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was born and raised in Detroit. After school I left to live in New York. I have been in Detroit for the past two weeks because my Mother had surgery.

I remember JJ Barnes very well and loved to hear him sing "Baby Please Come Back Home" . Marvin Gaye was so unique, so eclectic! He started with his cool cat solos like "Can I Get A Witness", "Hitch Hike" and "How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You". THEN, he did several solos with female Motown artists like Tammi Terrell who I think made the best partner. Then there was a period of down time for Marvin. But when he returned with what I feel is one of the greatest songs of all time, "What's Going On" , I saw Marvin Gaye, from that point, as one of the most gifted singer/writer/producer on planet earth. His music was spiritual and held a self-contained vision that defined musical genius. Somehow, JJ Barnes, with all his natural inclinations was probably in the wrong time and/or place to even make a comparison. At the end of the day I think Marvin was just more talented than JJ. But I could be wrong Don.

I'll keep looking for this thread Don.

I hear Chicago is a fun city! I only went once to audition for the Disney Orchestra Scholarship. Piano and Violin are my loves.

Arcadia

(Message edited by Arcadia on September 05, 2004)
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 506
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.232.131.244
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 4:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't be surprised if there are at least a few more in the can, Don. Just when we think they'ved found them all, they keep finding a few more by many artists. There were thousands of recordings, so I still have hope that a lot more gems will be released. They still haven't released several of my favourites by The Majestics, Serenaders, Satintones, Mickey McCullers, Hal Davis, Kim Weston, Andantes, Gino Parks, Henry Lumpkin, Eddie Holland, Creations, Andre Williams, Shorty Long, Liz Lands, Hattie Littles, Fantastic Four,etc. (The list could go on). I wouldn't be surprised if there are also gems by Emanuel Lasky, too (Berry had to keep Thelma (Coleman) happy after he bought THELMA out, That's partly why she and Richard Street got some co-producing work. Emanuel was sitting there in that office with them, -so, I'm sure he got some recording time (same as J.J. Barnes and The Fantastic Four, after their contracts were bought up).
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
6-Zenith
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 657
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.79.121.238
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Arcadia,

It's good to see another Detroiter on SDForum.
I live in Detroit also..good 2 C ya.
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 83
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.229.117.72
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks so much for the welcome medusa.

Detroit is so unique and I'm proud to call it my home.
Thanks again!

Arcadia (After the roller rink)
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Manny (manny)
6-Zenith
Username: manny

Post Number: 432
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.124.52.38
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Submarine to all!

I only got a tune by JJ Barnes that sounds very like Marvin Gaye, "Sweet Honey Baby".
I got it in a double CD compilation "Northern Soul. Keep The Faith. The Cream Of Rare Soul» by various artists by UK Burning Airlines. I hate the fact that not says everyone of the tracks the original label, only some brief notes in the booklet tolds about Don Davis and his Detroit labels and some label's 45's are reproduced as a background illustration with the text ( Eddie Holman's RCA; Fidel's Keymen; Inspiration's Breackthrough;...)

This is the complete track list:
Disc 1
1- The Professionals: «That's Why I Love You»
2- People's Choice: «Save My Lovin For You» (*) is not the same People's Choice lead by F. Brunson
3- The Parliaments: «Heart Trouble»
4- Martha Starr: «Love Is The Only Solution»
5- L. Allen: «Can We Talk It Over»
6- Billy Arnell: «Tough Girl»
7- Paris: «Sleepless Nights»
8- Troy Dodds: «Try My Love»
9- Johnny Rogers: «Make A Change»
10- The Holidays: «I Lost You»
11- Melvin Davies: «I Must Love You»
12- Billy Kennedy: «Sweet Things»
13- The Fidels: «Try A Little Harder»
14- Eddie Holman: «Where I'm Not Wanted»
15- The Tokays: «Baby Baby Baby»
16- Steve Mancha: He Stole The Love That Was Mine»

Disc 2
1- The Trips: «Love Can Be Modernised»
2- Eddie Holman: «Hurt»
3- Emanons Orchestra: «Bird Walkin»
4- Eddie Hill: «I Can Hear You Crying»
5- The Servicemen: «Are You Angry»
6- Doni Burdick: «Candle»
7- JJ. Barnes: «Sweet Honey Baby»
8- Agents: «Trouble»
9- Gene Woodbury: «Ever Again»
10- Vince Apollo: «I Beat Witness»
11- Jay Lyle: «How Good Can It Get»
12- The Inspirations: «No One Else Can Take Your Place» (Instrumental)
13- Silky Hargreaves: «Lucky To Be Loved By You»
14- Rose Batiste: «Someday»
15- Jimmy Gilford: «Nobody Loves Me»
16- Pat Smith: «Whirpool»

Peace & Soul Food
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 84
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.229.18.190
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Thanks Manny for the song list!

I love your signature, "Peace & Soul Food"! It's funny because I've been eating at several of Detroit's soul food restaurants during my visit here and I promised I would give it a rest for a few days because I have gained a few pounds. I've had several versions of peach cobbler (yes, with ice-cream) and I have enjoyed each and every bite! I also had a dreamy pecan cream-cheese cake at a great restaurants called "Milts". Also great BBQ!

Thanks again for the list and the "Soul Food" shout out!!

Best wishes,

Arcadia
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Cool Ju (cool_ju)
4-Laureate
Username: cool_ju

Post Number: 90
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.138
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...several versions of peach cobbler (yes, with ice-cream)... also dreamy pecan cream-cheese cake..."


PREACH BROTHER!!!





(Hey was that Milt's on the east-side that you went to? Great ribs there.)
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David Meikle (david_meikle)
5-Doyen
Username: david_meikle

Post Number: 371
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 81.130.211.124
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 3:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Arcadia

Some really cool artists appeared at the Arcadia in the late sixties.

I have JJ's answers to the above questions on tape. I do recall that he thought something else was behind his non-appearance on Motown.

I'm sorry but must reveal all in a future webisode on this great man.
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 512
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.232.135.230
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 4:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hola Manny. If I'm not mistaken, "Sweet Honey Baby" was a Don Davis, Groovesville recording, and not one of the songs J.J. recorded during his stint at Motown. He did, however record a few while there, a few of which have already been put on CD. I wouldn't be surprised if a few more surface on new CDs in future.
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Davie Gordon (davie_gordon)
5-Doyen
Username: davie_gordon

Post Number: 205
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 80.225.154.39
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's what J J had to say about his year at
Motown - from a 1973 interview
[Blues & Soul no. 116, Aug 73)

"It wasn't that they didn't record me - because they had me in the studio almost every day with
one producer or another.
I cut things with Richard Morris, Stevie Wonder
- alone and with Sylvia Moy - with Dean and Weatherspoon who had been so successful with
Jimmy Ruffin, with Clarence Paul and with Norman
Whitfield. And some of that stuff was good.
I never really knew what they were doig. You see when they us over (i.e. Golden World) I was doing
OK and they seemed to ignore Edwin and me - it was as if they weren't interested so I got the hell out of there as soon as I could"

I'd guess there's at the very least an album's worth - after all he did work with six producers
and they'd all have cut more than one track.

I think I've a speculative list of his Motown tracks somewhere - I'll see if I can find it.

J J did some writing for Motown acts but the songs
in some cases were released long after he;d left
Motown - it's probable that J J did his own
versions of some of them.

Davie
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Manny (manny)
6-Zenith
Username: manny

Post Number: 433
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.124.52.199
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 9:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Submarine, soulful brothers & sisters!

Hi, Arcadia and Robb K,
Thanks for your nice words and for your info respectively.
Until now i believed Groovesville was only a production name ("Groovesville productions" and "Great Lakes prod." both by Don Davis appears in some Dramatic's album credits).

Peace & Soul Food (in the fast and in the spiritual senses, Arcadia, smile!)
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 88
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.229.18.65
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool Ju, yes! Milt's Gourmet Barbecue located on the east side at 19143 Kelly Road. I took a photo of it because of Milt's pink sign. It's just stunning as is the food. The BBQ ribs are a great treat and the portion sizes are awesome. The price is right. A slab is 20.95 or a chicken/rib combo (what I got) was 15.50. Check it out all!

David, thanks for your comments. I have to tell you this site inspires me and I was out taking pictures of a "hot corned beef" location (Queens Corned Beef) at 10:30 at night. It was the lone site of the location, dark, on Wyoming (and Pickford) with it's brilliant red neon sign that captured the moment for me.

About the Arcadia Roller Rink. Back in that day, parents were so strict and my parents didn't want me to go! I went to Cass and everyone loved the Arcadia! I know Aretha Franklin used to skate there and I think one of the Temptations. You should have seen how the skaters would FLIP-JUMP (BOOM) - AND LAND back on their feet without missing a BEAT! It was something to see David. I just wish I was more vigilant with a camera back then. The history in Detroit is overwhelming to me.

Can't wait for future editions of your web documentaries at SD!

Davie, I'm ready for MORE soul-food today. So, I'm gettin ready!

Manny, have a great day!

Happy Labor Day all.


Arcadia

(Message edited by Arcadia on September 06, 2004)
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Don (don)
6-Zenith
Username: don

Post Number: 765
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.49.44
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I whole heartedly agree with some on liking obscure, rare and early Motown. I understand now.
I never cared much for the pop crap that was done later, because alot of artist and in other cities been there done that. The Tempts Mellow Mood and The Supremes' Sings Rogers & Hammerstein & Live at The Copa was alright, but that's where it stops.

Where Motown stopped somewhat VIP, SOUL carried the torch, not taking nothing away from what GORDY and TAMLA was trying to do musically what other underrated artist we're doing. I'm not speaking so much about the so call ratical stuff, that I heard some spoke in past earlier threads.

There may have been ugly times but but there we're
alot of seriousness in the late 60's. Couldn't help but not to stop, look & see alot of civil unrest, social protest and life as we all lived in the urban cities and the concious message songs.

Moving on....

However, I liked what Motown's VIP & SOUL labels we're doing musically, and I also liked what other Detroit Labels we're doing more to my liking. That to me was and still is a good combination as I just desribed...yeah!

Don
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David Meikle (david_meikle)
5-Doyen
Username: david_meikle

Post Number: 372
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 62.252.128.19
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Arcadia

You are so correct and I'm pleased you are catching the bug.

Detroit has fantastic history across the board.

I'll be back next year. If you're available you are welcome to join us for the day to see what we get up to!

David
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Graham Finch (acooolcat)
5-Doyen
Username: acooolcat

Post Number: 202
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 210.200.105.229
Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a nice unreleased J J Barnes song called "It's Alright To Cry Sometimes" that he cut while he was with Fred Brown. I guess it was going to be a follow up to his "Poor Unfortunate Me" - it has a similar sound and tempo.
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mel(andthensome) (mel)
6-Zenith
Username: mel

Post Number: 621
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.43.74.72
Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)




JJ.
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David Meikle (david_meikle)
5-Doyen
Username: david_meikle

Post Number: 373
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 81.130.211.124
Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 3:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the pic Mel.

I looked for my tape last night but couldn't find it. Crisis!
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Uptight (uptight)
4-Laureate
Username: uptight

Post Number: 121
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.55.211.50
Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 3:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do hope you find it, David. Hopefully it is closer to you than you think.
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Don (don)
6-Zenith
Username: don

Post Number: 772
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.171.116
Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are some songs I heard on reel to reels that JJ cut first for Motown I talk about earlier. I know many might think they are Marvin Gaye unreleased material.

Hang On
My Love For You
I Found Something
Love's More Precious Than Gold
It's A Lonely World Without Your Love
Lonely Lover
It's A Bitter Pill To Swallow
Don't You Miss Me A Little Bit Baby.

Don
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Dave Rimmer (dave_rimmer)
1-Arriviste
Username: dave_rimmer

Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.44.242.222
Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another track that J J cut at Motown was 'Hole In The Wall'. It somehow surfaced in the UK on a rather strange 12" single on the Kool Kat label. J J was surprised to see it because he wasn't aware that any of his Motown recordings had escaped at that point.
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roy gennard (hitsville_chalky)
1-Arriviste
Username: hitsville_chalky

Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 82.37.209.23
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jj would have recorded loads of stuff at motown it would be good if they would be put on cd look at the track tell me aint it the truth what can you say apart from awsome it would be intresting if jj also cut show me the way i think has the years go on we will come across all unrealesed stuff and cover versions of most of the motown artists

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