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  bigdaddyg2k4 (bigdaddyg2k4) 4-Laureate Username: bigdaddyg2k4 Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 63.102.169.102 |
In our vast and in-depth discussions about the major contributors to T.S.O.P or as we call it, "The Sound Of Philadelphia", we often talk about the obvious persons who made this great music a household name and a sound for a generation. People such as Kenneth Gamble-Leon Huff, MFSB and top arrangers/producers such as Bobby Martin ,Thom Bell and our very own Philly legend, Bobby Eli who have shaped and molded a sound that has spawned many hits and influenced so many people, it's immeasurable how this music has impacted so many lives the world over in a positive light. Alchemists of this musical phenomenon have been given due respect and admiration by lifelong fans such as myself and others in this forum as well; only The Motown Sound can be a perfect compliment to the Philly Sound as it can be spoken in the same sentence so seamlessly since the fan base of the two genres are too many to number. But the Philly Sound would've never gotten its due respect without the staff and supporting cast of Philadelphia International Records, who played a major and important part in the creation and introduction of this music, and the other labels (such as Atlantic and Avco/Embassy to name a few) who also have benefitted greatly from a production and performance standpoint. I have often wondered what became of those who played their part of the Philly Sound, long after the heyday and the hits have come and gone (from the years between 1966-1987); we know that some members have passed on (such as Norman Harris and Ronnie Baker), still active in the music business in some form or fashion (Bobby Eli and Vince Montana still producing records, as do Earl Young, fronting his version of The Trammps to this day), or just retired altogether (Gamble-Huff involved in business and other ventures; Bobby Martin as a contributor to community service). But what about these other individuals who I never hear about post-PIR? Are they still involved in music? What ever became of them? Here are a list of names that I'm pretty sure members of SDF are interested (and probably anxious) to find out "WHERE ARE THEY NOW?" MFSB (& SUPPORTING PERSONNEL): Anthony Jackson, Charles Collins, Norman Farrington, David Bay, T. Life (produced Evelyn "Champagne" King's debut album at Sigma), Reggie Lucas (also written songs with Mtume-most famously for Roberta Flack), T.J. Tindall, Victor Carstarphen, Jerry Cohen, Eddie Green, Cotton Kent, Ron "Have Mercy" Kersey, Lenny Pakula, Harold Williams, Larry Gold, John Davis, Zach Zachary, Carla Benson, Evette Benton, Shirley Brewer, Yvette Davis, TNJ, Tony Bell-Sr., Cecil Womack (who later teamed with his wife Linda to form Womack & Womack), Quinton Joseph, Jimmy Williams, Norman Smith, Sam Reed, Dennis Harris PRODUCERS AND ARRANGERS: Ugene Dozier (is he related to Lamont Dozier?), Phil Hurtt (recent SDF guest), Dexter Wansel, James Mendell, Bunny Sigler (where in the world is he???), Frankie Brunson (although leader of People's Choice, still an integral part of T.S.O.P.), Richard Rome, Jack Faith ENGINEERS: Michael Tarsia, Arthur Stoppe, Don Murray, Kenny Present, Jay Mark, Carl Paruolo, Peter Humphreys, Dirk Devlin Folks, I know that this a pretty long list of individuals to cover, but it would be great to know that these people are never forgotten and we appreciate their contribution to the Philly Sound; so Bobby, SDF and other music experts, please find out what became of these extraordinary and gifted people. Your efforts are valuble and very grateful. p.s.: Bobby, were you involved in any of the sessions with the Ritchie Family? I have their 1975 album "Brazil" (including my favorite single, "Peanut Vendor"), arranged by Richard Rome. p.p.s. Does anyone have any photos of some or all of the mentioned above? Also, can anyone tell me who MDM is? MDM is listed as either co-arranger or co-producer for Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes' "Hope That We Can Be Together Soon". | ||
Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg) 5-Doyen Username: linda_di_fsg Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 165.170.128.66 |
As you know, Barbara Ingram passed away suddenly 10 years ago next month of a brain aneurism. Carla Benson still sings (beautifully) and checks in on the forum. I understand that Evette Benton no longer performs, but don't know that for sure. | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 2-Debutant Username: benlynx Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 195.92.168.164 |
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Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 2-Debutant Username: benlynx Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 195.92.168.164 |
R&B King Michael Tarsia on Vocals http://www.discmakers.com/musi c/pse/michael.asp | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 2-Debutant Username: benlynx Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 195.92.168.165 |
 http://www.stationave.com/bios.bunny%20sigler.html | ||
Manny (manny) 6-Zenith Username: manny Post Number: 423 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.51.125 |
Hello Submarine! Hey, Bigdaddy! You are like me a very phillysound lover. I read around two years ago in the web-site that Sony created for the "The Philly Sound. G & H and The Story Of Brotherly Love" 3 x CD box, in one page titled "Postcards from Philly", somebody tolds that Dexter Wansel was producing a sitar-player musician (indian?). I also got the name MDM in the credits of O'Jays "Live In London" LP. I believe says "recording mobile facilities" by The Rolling Stones and MDM" (i got it in spanish idiom). Shirley Brewer I only knows she appears in the chorus of "Love Has Not Time Or Place" (MFSB, "Universal Love" album) and one time in spanish "Rock De Luxe" a critical tolds she was a Wonderlove member and as a Motown artist, asked "when appears one album by this fantastic female singer?" I started recently a trheat where tolds that Anthony Jackson performed in Barcelona with spanish Ximo T�bar in July. Isaiah one time started a threat where included a link where explains Frank Brunson is back to the choir of his town for sing gospel. I remember also some good jazz musicians who have played with the MFSB combo as percusionist Miguel Fuentes, sax player Bobby Malach, guitarist James Herb Smith, flugelhorn player and arranger John Usry,... What a collection of good musicians! Peace & Soul Food | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1492 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Big daddy, For starters, MDM, was Harold Melvin's Million Dollar Management /Million Dollar Music. Here are somw personnel updates: Eddie green --recently deceased John Davis--deceased Ron Kersey--Incapacitated for many years due to several strokes. Larry Washington--deceased Lenny Pakula--Out of the business and seling cars Anthony Jackson--Toure all around the world playing his bass Charles Collins--Lives in Dallas and still playes and is involved in Gospel and much more. Was recently featured in Modern Drummer TJ Tindal--Rund his family's lighting business in Princeton, N.J. Larry Gold--owns "The Studio" the most successful new studio in Philly where most of the action is right now T. Life--Owns Badlands productions and does rap Tony Bell--deceased Cotton Kent-still active in the music biz and playing regulary in clubs Dennis Harris-banker Michael"Sugar bear" Forman-deceased Zach Zachery-semi retired but does the occasional gig Mike tarsia-still engineering Joe Tarsia-sold Sigma and runs an internet based musical instrument and equipment company carl paruolo runs a successful restaurant in upstate Pennsylvania and does the occasional engineering gig Jay Mark-still ebgineering in NYC Pete Humphreys bought Frankford Wayne and runs it as Masterworks Jimmy Williams-has played bass for the Ojays for decades. Quinton Joseph- still does things at the "ghost of PIR" but imm not certain what , except maybe clean up the tumbleweeds that roll down the halls Sam Reed-still gigs Yvette Davis-back in Philly after living on the coast for years Kenny Present-inherited his family's candy factory and is wealthy and does the occasional engineering gig Vic Carstarphen-played keys with the Tempts for years, and lives in LA Bunny Sigler-sings with the "fake Trammps" Richie Rome-still does charts and plays around town Jack Faith-semi retired but still writes some charts and plays sax Don Murray-an in demand jaZz engineer in LA and yes..I did play on the Richie Family stuff. In fact, I was the first on called for the gig when Jacques Morali and Henri Belolo came to town, but for some reason Ritchie Rome picked it up, hence the name. The girls became an interchangeable "act" later on as it was just a studio group. | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 306 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
I was also at PIR, bigdaddy, if you look at the thread Photo collcetion of Weldon A. Mc Dougal III you will see the photos of PIR, Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (Message edited by weldon on September 01, 2004) (Message edited by weldon on September 01, 2004) | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 5-Doyen Username: 1wicked Post Number: 255 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
Bigdaddy: Larry Gold has a CD project ("Larry Gold presents Don Cello") that is slammin' !! Bunny Sigler is featured on one cut that could spike the birth rate...if it ever got any airplay ! | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 5-Doyen Username: dvdmike Post Number: 333 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 65.208.234.85 |
There were two John Davises in the MFSB sax section, one Black and one white. The causcasian John moved to L.A. and did a lot of TV scoring. He did the horn & string arrangements on "The Boss" by Diana Ross. I assume that the late John Davis is the African American. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1499 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Your assumption is correct, Mike. John played bari sax on most of the stuff. And for a while,he also played tenor sax on the road with the Trammps early on. | ||
yoyoshep (yoyoshep) 2-Debutant Username: yoyoshep Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
Thanks for the info Eli. | ||
Manny (manny) 6-Zenith Username: manny Post Number: 427 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.51.194 |
Appart from the PIR illustrated encyclopedia thread by Weldon and also our Bobby "Enciclopedic" Eli, this trhead can be also very rich in information about Phillysound. I'm wondering about the relation betwen some musician-producers with the PIR label (they recorded for other labels). This is the case of Norman Connors, who appears as producer of some Jean Carne tracks, or Keni Burke, who appears on Curtom, PIR and others producing O'Jays, Curtis, and Jones Girls. Or some collaborators of Jerry Butler as Talbert who appears in their PIR albums. Or, also Ashford & Simpson producing-writing for Teddy Pendergrass... Peace! | ||
bigdaddyg2k4 (bigdaddyg2k4) 4-Laureate Username: bigdaddyg2k4 Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.138.55.48 |
My thanx & appreciation 2 all who has given us very interesting insights and valuble info on our beloved personnel who gave birth to the Philly sound. KEEP 'EM COMING!!! Also, very special thanx are in order 2 "Electronic E" & Mr. Weldon McDougal III for their contributions, for they are the link to the history of PIR and the historical events that made musical history. They are valuble and priceless assets to SoulfulDetroit.com. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1514 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Thanx Big Daddy! My recollections wil always be shared with you all.... just as long as I keep taking my Focus Factor..with Ginko Biloba!!!! If I hapen to run out or if the FDA takes it off the market, then... well.....faggedaboutit!!!(smil e) Now...what did you just say???? When did what start??? Kenny who??? | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1515 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Manuelo!!! All of the musicians were "free agents" and could work with anyone and any company. Eight of us(the main rhythm section) were signed as MFSB, but we were allowed to work with whomever we wanted to, unlike the Funk Brothers at Motown who had to sneak and do clandestine sessions. Our collective sound was unique and they knew it, and Im sure that G&H would have liked to have kept us under wraps, but we werent having none of that, as it was a new day and different times, different place. | ||
Manny (manny) 6-Zenith Username: manny Post Number: 431 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.52.178 |
Hello Submarine! Hey, Mr. Bobby Eli-seo! ("Eliseo" is a spanish name, :-)) Thanks for your explainations. But it seems to me as i formuled bad my question. I know previously that the regular personnel at PIR were totally free for work simultaneously with other labels. I refered to some other musicians who was in the PIR family very briefly as Norman Connors or others that, perhaps appears only as "guest" appearences (as Leon Ndugu Chandler and Mtume or also, in the vocalists field, Rev. James Cleveland). Also is interesting to see in the "guest appearences" field some collaborations by PIR acts as Teddy Pendergrass on Capitol with Stephanie Mills or Jean Carne on Epic Records with George Duke. And viceversa, Motown acts as Stevie Wonder appearing in PIR album by Leon Huff or Shirley Brewer on a MFSB album. Peace & Soul Food | ||
Carl Dixon (carl_dixon) 4-Laureate Username: carl_dixon Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 82.44.203.80 |
Am I right in suggesting that both Frank Bendinelli and Leroy Lovett were producing music and creating musical arrangements well before Gamble and Huff in Philly, and indeed Mr. Huff used to do session work for them, prior to the big time? Would I be wrong in assuming that musical knowledge was gleaned from that session work that had influence on the development of some of the Gamble and Huff early productions? | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 310 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
you are right Carl Weldon | ||
Garo (gary_james) 3-Pundit Username: gary_james Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 151.199.249.248 |
Eli, Just wondering about other pop artists and sessions you were involved with during that era. Did you play with other acts when they came to town to use the facility-- like Elton John, David Bowie, The Jacksons, etc? What's the biggest non-soul hit you were involved with? | ||
Carl Dixon (carl_dixon) 4-Laureate Username: carl_dixon Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 82.44.203.80 |
Thanks Weldon - from my humble perspective, I feel the Philly sound was just as important prior to the seventies, than during. I am no expert, but the wheels were set in motion probably after the war and into the 1950's and early 60's. I know the doo-wop era is a milestone, but set the scene, street corner groups harmonising everywhere in Philly and writers and producers trying their luck at a hit record! Without those efforts, I can see no Sound of Philadelphia as we know it. If I may stick my neck out and say that Motown had a style and sound and it was difficult to copy, so the Philly boys and girls went off at a tangent in the late 1960's with a different style of arranging - and it worked. This is where I respect tremendously those others for trying to compete in a difficult market place and come up with something different. The Harthon catalogue and Ben-Lees stuff is outstanding to say the least. It is these types of catalogue that must be acknowledged more than they are. Look at Mel�s fantastic label scans on the other threads and you will see the early days of TSOP! The dna, if you like. Weldon's knowledge and roster of musicians he used in the early days makes your tongue scrape along the floor. Along with others, Frank Bendinelli and Leroy Lovett are the true unsung hero�s, who in my opinion should be on that all too famous pedestal as well. Having met Frank last year through Bobby, I could not believe I sat in his home talking about Patti and the Emblems. It is a Bendinelli/Lovett title that is inscribed on the inside of my wedding ring - not Gamble and Huff! Their writing partnership was outstanding. Who else could come up with a title � I�m gonna love you a long long time�, just long enough to etch onto the ring? What would we do without those early producers? Thanks Weldon and all those who helped lift the cities profile so high with their music, it will never be forgotten. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1532 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Gary, The question should be what DIDNT I play on(smile) Probably the most "pop" artist I have worked with in a production capacith was Englebert Humpersinck in a production capacity whereby I produed half of his multi platinum album, 'After the Lovin', and the most "pop" artist whereby I functioned as a guitarist would have to be a tie between Vic Damone and Mike Douglas! | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 6-Zenith Username: ladymystique Post Number: 664 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 216.37.228.103 |
I am STILL broken up that Joe Tarsia sold the studio! I wonder if it will ever be the same?  | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1566 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.50.48 |
Hi Lady M!! Sigma will NEVER be the same. Its not in the cards. I give it less than two years and the place will be shutered for good. The people there have no clue at all. The magic is gone, the vibe is gone and most of all..the PEOPLE are gone. Its so bad that even the ghosts have left the building!!! There gonna turn part of it into some kind of music school. | ||
drums (drums) 2-Debutant Username: drums Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 148.177.1.212 |
Hi all, I am partners with the owners of the new Sigma Sound, and I agree with Bobby in that the people and the vibe are gone. But I disagree that the people there dont have a clue. Mario and his wife as well as George Haijoannou and I are working hard to bring the place up to spec using Studio Bauton www.bauton.com to give the place a badly needed makeover. But we arent stopping with just a makeover. We are bringing in NEW talent to show that Sigma Sound will be the BEST studio in Philly. There will also be facilities to accomodate video production as well, but according to the people there, no music school. I respect all of the great artists and musicians that have worked there and I hope to meet some of them as well as new artists and groups that want to continue the Sigma Sound tradition. But we are proud of what is being done to the place and you guys will too  Daren Metz Luka Digital Systems, Inc. Sigma Sound Studios www.noblecooley.com | ||
drums (drums) 2-Debutant Username: drums Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 148.177.1.212 |
PS... One of the songs on Jill Scott's new CD was recorded at Sigma Sound. I think this is carrying on the tradition of great Philly artists using Sigma??? D More are coming..... | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 314 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
Hi Drums, glad to see you guys got plans for sigma,I talked to Gordon the other day about doing a session soon, I wish you guys good Luck,before there was sigma, there was Roc-Co-Arts, and they had the best sound in Philly back in the day,it was there at 212 N 12 street, | ||
drums (drums) 2-Debutant Username: drums Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 148.177.1.212 |
Hi Mr. McDougal! When you talk to Gordon and George tell them that I will come down and lay down some drum tracks NO CHARGE! D | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 315 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
thanks, we will talk Weldon | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1571 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 70.16.133.145 |
Daren, In what capacity is your partnership at Sigma? Did you invest any money in the place? Just curious. | ||
drums (drums) 2-Debutant Username: drums Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.84.118.164 |
Hi Bobby! I cant tell the internet world my partnership with Sigma, but if you call me up I will give more details! But as you know, I am a tremendous history buff and I have been talking to you and others about bringing back the Philly Sound legacy, one way or the other ! Anyway, call me up! D | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 6-Zenith Username: ladymystique Post Number: 674 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 216.37.228.103 |
Eli...I agree...now when I pass it, I just sigh. I had hoped one day that I would record there, but I guess that wouldn't happen...music school? I wonder how that would work? The best teachers were THERE! I saw that Bunny has a CD on VOICE DISTRIBUTIONS label...you could get it on Maurice Watt's website...heard a couple of cuts and it is GREAT! Weldon...did you do PR at PIR also? | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 317 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
yes I did PR at PIR, and many other things,it's in the book,"The Rise And Full Of Philadelphia Soul", should be out in Oct 2004 | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 6-Zenith Username: ladymystique Post Number: 678 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 216.37.228.103 |
Thanks Weldon! Will look out for the book! |
