| Author |
Message |
 
DenvrMotownLvr (john)
1-Arriviste
Username: john
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 24.9.226.3
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 7:44 pm: �� |   ��� |
Bobby, I recently picked up a greatest hits compilation of the Spinners issued by Rhino. I had always associated the Spinners with the Philly sound and assumed they were issued on PIR. The cd booklet indicates these songs were, for the most part, produced/arranged/composed by Thom Bell and Linda Creed, and issued on the Atlantic record label. Was this before the official creation of PIR? (I hope you don't mind the questions that are directed specifically to you, but I think most here at the Forum enjoy knowing the "backstory" of the creation of the classics. I know I do) |
mike s (mike_s)
4-Laureate
Username: mike_s
Post Number: 139
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 6:14 am: �� | ��� |
Hi John
Bobby will tell you more. The Spinners were signed by Atlantic after leaving Motown. Thom Bell selected them to work with when he was approached by Atlantic to do production work. Bell was signed to the publishing company co-owned by him with Gamble and Huff, Mighty Three Music.
So though he used musicians he usually worked with and also worked with Phil.Int, G and H were not involved other than their company published most of the songs. Hope that helps before Eli picks up. |
DenvrMotownLvr (john)
1-Arriviste
Username: john
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 64.207.31.110
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:16 am: �� | ��� |
Thanks Mike |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1407
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.6.86
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:00 pm: �� | ��� |
John,
Mike basically summed it up.
PIR started in '71.
The first release was by a guy named Gideon Smith followed by You're the reason why by the Ebonys.
G&H had nothing to do with the Spinners other than publishing the songs (with Thom) for the project and using the same musicians and studios , hence the "Philly Sound" |
dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike
Post Number: 313
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.85
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:42 pm: �� | ��� |
What a lot of people don't know about Philadelphia International is that Gamble & Huff offered it to Atlantic first. They passed on the deal as being too expensive and soon after, CBS prexy Clive Davis entered the picture and made a deal with G&H in his attempt to corner the market in Black music. PIR, as we know went on to become one of the major successes of the '70s. Another tidbit, G&H were at first going to use the Neptune name. Neptune was the Chess/GRT-distributed label owned by G&H from 1969-70. Shortly before or after the deal was made, they changed the name to Philadelphia International. |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1409
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.6.86
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 1:02 pm: �� | ��� |
Im glad they did change the name , as it had a better, pro ring to it.
FYI..They got the name from the Philadelphia International airport after seeing it up on the sign so many times.
In '77, a couple of "paulie3$shoes" type cats(capice) opened a recording studio not far from the airport called Alpha Internaional, to give the illusion that it was associated with "Sigma"--a Greek letter and "international" from PIR.
They later started a label caled Philly World, for the same bogus reasons, and had the nerve to actually have some hits!!
As I said, they were "connected", capice???
One day while the owner(front man) had a rock group in to test the studio, his father, the "construction guy" said to his son
" marrone--yo Pete, how come youse got dat f****ing s**t turned up so f****ng loud"?? |
mike s (mike_s)
4-Laureate
Username: mike_s
Post Number: 143
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 6:18 am: �� | ��� |
Bobby-
who was the guy with the ears at Philly World because they came up with a few good hits?
Eugene Wilde had two number ones with Gotta Get you Home and Don't Say No...though they may have been bought in on a production deal as I don't recall the artist was from Philly or recorded there (Florida?).
Also Harold Melvin's Talk It Up album which he did with Nick Martinelli and Bunny S. I trhink this was Harold's last album (?) and he was using a new girl called Nikko rather than Sharon Paige. Title track was a typical Bunny pounder while I Really Love You was one of those smoochy ballads Harold did so well.
Terri Wells' album was nice too (another Martinelli job) with You Make it Heaven, a great ballad and her version of I'll be Around did well in the UK as a single.
None of the musicians used though were from the MFSB crew although Norman H was used for arranging on some tracks and he even played guitar. Didn't he sleep? |
mike s (mike_s)
4-Laureate
Username: mike_s
Post Number: 145
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 6:30 am: �� | ��� |
Strangest thing about Philly World!
Looking up the hits of the artists above, the records were numbered downwards rather than in ascending order. So Eugene Wilde's first hit was 99710 while his last hit 18 months later was 99573.Anyone capice?? |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1424
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.55.239
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 8:54 am: �� | ��� |
Mike,
The "ears" at P.W. was Mike Forte who was a musician as well.
The company started out with some Canadian and Euro master purchases, and then Nick martinelli came aboard and did some decent things.
Eugene Wilde(Ron Broomfield) was from Florida and a member of TTF.
Pete's(the "ownere's") brother a "builder" went to Florida and met a shadowy Saudi character, Mohammed Bedrawi, also in the building business and somewhat wealthy, who dabbled in managing Eugene.
He had a hankering to get into the record biz, so one snowy night a limo pulls up to the studio with Mohammed and Eugene in tow, and they proceed to record a few songs that eventually come out under the moniker "Simplicious".
The owner, liking money got Mohammed to invest a lot of money in the company and turning over creative control to him.
Mohammed was a big megalomanic and because of this basically ran the show and picked and a&r'd the projects.
Somehow, the two Eugene hits evolved ,but it all went downhill from there, and Mohammed bought his way out just as he bought his way in.
I was involved with cuts on several albums, such as Cashmere, Joanna Gardner, Victoria Underwood and others,but it became a strange place to work out of.
BTW "Nikko" was Joanna Gardner.
Now as a studio, Alpha had a good number of hits recorded there such as Shame and others by Evelyn King, France Joli,HM and the Bluenotes later stuff,Brandi Wells, Fat Larry's "Zoom", Booker Newberrys "Lovetown" even some Blue Magic on capitol and a lot more.
The studio was pretty decent as an r&b place. |
Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20
Post Number: 2066
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 9:51 pm: �� | ��� |
Bobby: It's interesting that you mentioned Cashmere. I used to jam the instrumental side of Do It Anyway You Wanna. I also liked We Need Love & You're All I Need. |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1439
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.55.239
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:20 pm: �� | ��� |
I produced Can I, which was a big UK hit, and Someone like you, which were on the same album as We need love. |
Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20
Post Number: 2069
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:54 pm: �� | ��� |
Good stuff there Bobby. I have that LP & it's pretty good. |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1444
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 70.16.131.196
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 11:58 pm: �� | ��� |
That album was done in '84.
Cashmere were:
Dwight (formerly of Heaven and Earth from Chicago)
Darryl Burgee ( also a session drummer)
Mc Kinley Horton (also a songwriter)
He and Mike Forte wrote Dreamin by Vanessa Williams under female pseudonyms. |
Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20
Post Number: 2074
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 12:04 am: �� | ��� |
Bobby: Was his name Dwight Dukes??? |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1446
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 70.16.131.196
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 12:06 am: �� | ��� |
Sho' nuff was!!
Thanx for reminding this old man, over here!
He wasnt kin to Daisy, though! |
Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20
Post Number: 2075
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 12:09 am: �� | ��� |
Well, I sure wouldn't have wanted to see him wear a pair!!! I don't think that I would have liked that too much. Bo wouldn't have liked it either. |
Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin
Post Number: 232
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 8:59 am: �� | ��� |
Hello again this post of mine and Mike S response where taken from another thread. Can you add to this Mr Eli ?
Mr. Eli, since your memory is in fine form and you've recieved the necessary clearence from your physician can you riddle me this :
The group New York City were in my opinion the precursors to The Spinners trademark sound. While rummageing through the vaults of my record collection yesterday I came upon their album with "I'm Doing Fine Now" and Quick fast In A Hurry and wondered if you played guitar on this cut, ( no musician credit info)it certainly sounds like you ! What were those sessions like and what happened to this group ?
Second item : Found the album The Temptations which you played on and was produced by Thom Bell ! This album is out of print and rarely mentioned these days, but I found it to be very refreshing and one of my favorite Temptation albums. For the uninformed the hit from this album was the Richard Street led "Aiming at Your Heart", quite a classic unto itself. While listening to this album I wondered why the Spinners didn't recruit Richard Street to replace Philipe Wynne, I know he had the chops and would have fit nicely into thier trademark sound, whaddaya think ? By the way you were jamming on this one.....excellent...
Lastly, after watching Mcfadden & Whitehead on PBS recently, which was obviously filmed before his tragic passing, I dug deep into the vault and found their signature album with the cut Aint No Stoppping us now, of cousre you were listed in the credits but according to the back cover the Futures sung background on this albumand it listed all of their names including former Temptation (and one of my personal favorites Harry M, what were those sessions like ? Man I've had that album since it came out and I did not remember any of that information.
reading is fundemental..........
Kdubya
mike s (mike_s)
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:31 am:
------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
New York City's album by Thom Bell, Soulful Road is a superb album with some tearjerking ballads beautifully sung and also typically arranged by TB. This had: Happiness Is, Got to get you back in my life, Only You.
Their first lp was a bit flat with only 4 Bell tracks,including I'm Doing Fine and Quick Fast,in a Hurry. The rest were done by Wes Farrell.
Thom started working with the Spinners about six-nine months before NYC so he had already put down the mold with the Spinners through their first album that of course included I'll be around and Could it be I'm falling in love before he came up with I'm Doing Fine Now.
NYC vanished after their second album, I guess Chelsea lost interest when singles off the album didn't sell that well. Sad, though, as it's a fine piece of work.
As Bobby E was on most TB sessions of the time, I guess he was there for this album too (?). Any memories of what is one of my alltime favorites? |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1453
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.20.38
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 10:42 pm: �� | ��� |
yep,
I played on the new York City stuff too!
Interstingly, Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards were their guitarist and bassist for their gigs, and would sometime come to the studio to check out the sessions.
Later on when Nile and Bernard became Chic, they reflected with me on the times they came to Sigma and were in awe of what was going down!! |
Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin
Post Number: 238
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 9:26 am: �� | ��� |
Dam, Bernard and Niles, Jumpin Jesus ! like I said there was no way to know because no musician info was listed on the LP.
Now one last request could you comment on the vibe surrounding the Temptations working with you guys ? Since Motown (?) is notorious for leaving stuff in the can for eons, Is Harry W waiting in the wings with sides that where never released from those sessions ? I get the feeling that Thom and company didn't have enough time to really mold the Temptations sound', in short I mean the album is good but they appear to be all over the place....they sound like the Spinners, they sound like the Stylistics, they really rock on the tune Just Aint Havin Fun (with Dennis doing a lil Bootsy thang and Melvin blasting the bottom) and yes they sound like themselves, even when Dennis was singing about Life as A Cowboy.... Mr Eli this has been a mystery to me for a lot of years......what do you recall ?
Kdubya |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.25.141
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 3:58 pm: �� | ��� |
Kdubya,
Bernard and Nile didnt play on the NYC sessions.
There were in their road band and csame by the studio several times to hang out.
As far as the Temps sessions go,the guys werent around too much( except for Elton John's sessions) as Thom likes to work only with the musicians present.
The guys sounded great, but I didnt care for the material.
We also did "Hear to tempt you" on Atlantic, with Norman Harris producing.
I didnt care for that one either,cause for me it didnt represent the "classic" Tempts sound that well. |
Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin
Post Number: 246
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:12 pm: �� | ��� |
Thanks my friend I appreciate your candor. Their album "Hear To Tempt You" was not very good to these ol ears of mine and I think you noted from my post I couldn't quite pin point what they were trying to do on the Thom Bell project. I still love the album though, Dennis, Glenn, Melvin, Richard and Otis were in fine voice, and I am of the opinion that the powers that be should have grabbed Richard Street (no dis to John Edwards) after Philipe left the group. I thought he would have been a good fit and maybe, just maybe,he and Bobby would have gotten along.
Kdubya
Open their eyes......... |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1470
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.25.141
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:17 pm: �� | ��� |
Although those Tempts cd's were recorded in Philly with "all the bells and whistles",
what I think is that there was "too much Philly, and not enough Tempts"
There could have been more of an effort to use more creativity to maybe come up with something new, like maybe a Philly-Detroit hybrid kind of thing, and having been on the scene from day one, I know that would have been no problem. |
Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin
Post Number: 248
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:21 pm: �� | ��� |
I hear you......loud and crystal clear....you da man ! |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1471
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.25.141
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:57 pm: �� | ��� |
... What Thom did with the song "Life is a song worth singing" with both Mathis and Teddy, are good examples of what a little creativity and Dennis would have destroyed ( in a good sense) a song like that. |