Soulful Detroit Archives - July 2004 WILLIAM "POOGIE" HART - BROKE MY HEART... Previous Next

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isaiah imani (isaiah)
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Username: isaiah

Post Number: 34
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 216.148.246.134
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 9:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last night I went to a free concert featuring the Delfonics(?), the Manhattans, and the Whispers, and discovered what SDF cognescente have been telling us all along, that the once great Mr. Hart has lost his pipes... That, in itself, is no crime, but the shameless tricks he resorts to are heartbreaking... Last night, in Brooklyn, amidst profanity-laced hoots and howls for him to get the hell of the stage, I hung my head to see what was once one of the great shows on earth, reduced to using Temptations material sung by Garfield Ruffin, and using his daughters(who can blow)as background filler...

Fortunately, sandwiched in between the once proud Delfonics, and the Wonderful Whispers, were the Mighty Manhattans, and their superb lead singer, Mr. Gerald Alston... Unlike Poogie, who had to resort to false bravado, twice saying, "I aint lost nuthin", Gerald Alston sang without his mike on a rendition of Sam's A Change is Gonna Come... No apologies or bravado necessary... I came to see the still fabulous Whispers, and left humming the songs of the Manhattans, who I would've paid my bottom dollar to see perform again...

Both the Manhattans and the Whispers did Old School proud last night... They still step like they did as young men, and the silver-haired Mr. Blue Lovett of Harlem U.S.A. was a stone-cold joy, turning the ladies out completely on his Kiss and Say Goodbye Rap(smile!) Papa can still pick dem dogs up, and lay 'em down. too!

The Mighty Whispers closed the show with a touching tribute to the soul departed, singing to the strains of A Song For Donny, they gave remembrance to Donny, Marvin, Rick, and Ray... And can Walter and Scotty Scott still blow soul, SAY YES, they can... I would've paid in full last night to see these cats Rock Steady all night long...

Peace!
Isaiah
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Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin

Post Number: 193
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 9:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are'nt you glad it was free ? The Manhattans and The Whispers are tight ! The Manhattans have an album (CD) out thats good, title escapes me at this moment but its worth your dollars. That Delfonic charade is sad indeed, Garfield Ruffin is Garfield Fleming if I recall correctly, as if he's David Ruffin's illegitimate son as they proclaim before they go into "Papa was a rolling stone" then I am David Ruffins Daddy ! I've seen this tired stage act and its not pleasent. Mr Fleming certainly imitates David well, right down to thew trademark glasses, but he aint David Ruffin.......only in his dreams......

Kdubya
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REESE (mah)
2-Debutant
Username: mah

Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 9:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone seen Wil Hart formerly of the Delfonics show? It is tight as well. Check him out when you get a chance. Wil Broke away due to Williams greed and inability to sing the original notes.
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1322
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Isaiah;
Now you see what I've been telling folks along about Gerald and his mind-blowing version of "A Change Is Gonna Come", he also backs off the mic whenever he does "Neither One Of Us" or "The Way We Were"!! Gerald's voice remains more fabulous than ever bar none that are in his vocal range. My man has church roots soul to the bone!!

Blue Lovette is from and grew up in Jersey City, N.J. just like all the "original" Manhattans. He now resides in Arizona. Gerald and his beautiful wife Edna still reside in Jersey City with their son Calvin.
S.S.

Gerald & Blue:
G
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1323
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Today's "Manhattans":
M
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
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Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1324
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Kdudya;
The Manhattans (featuring Gerald Alston & Blue Lovett) most recent album is "Live From Africa" featuring the fabulous song "Even Now" and the mind-blowing "Turn Out The Stars" which Gerald kicks azz with in their live shows!!
S.S.
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
6-Zenith
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 536
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.249.245.54
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Soul Sister,
What happened to Poogie HArts' voice, how did he lose it? If I may ask.
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
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Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1327
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Medusa;
I don't know "Poogie" personaly but perhaps Bobby Eli can shed more light on it.
I do know through someone in the biz who really knows vocals, that he told the promoter for the May show at the Lowew's Theater in Jersey City not to hire Poogie's group but instead hire Wilbur's group who sound so much better. I also heard Major Harris' voice was not too good anymore either. (?)Bobby?
I heard the Whispers need to do something to get with it as they are being burned all over the place and everywhere the Manhattans performed on one of these shows that Gerald stole the show and burned everyone. This is no suprise to me, whenever I saw one of these shows of many acts, the same thing happened The Manhattans & Gerald stole the show every time!!
S.S.
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
6-Zenith
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 539
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.249.245.54
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No not Major Harris~~~
I know it's been said that Aretha (and a few others) don't sound the same, but she's still recording and sounding good.
"BUT" how can your voice just go like that? Is he ill or something?
Singing is a Passion, you must keep it in practice. ( I could be wrong, but ~~~)
I believe if you can sing, you always can sing. Your voice 'MAY' be a bit slower, Lower, maybe you can't hold the high or long notes like before, voice may even crack or shake, but you can still do the damn thing (smile).
If you don't believe a singer is always a singer, just ask Mr. Jimmy Scott and lots of others that are still doin' it.
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
3-Pundit
Username: isaiah

Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 216.148.246.134
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Medusa, Good Morning!

What is meant by me(and others, I would guess)when I say Poogie's lost his voice is, he can't hit those notes he used to hit consistently... The key word is CONSISTENTLY... Truth be told, there was moment last night when he attempted The Love That I Gave where I actually thought he was playing possum with us all night(smile!) Nope, he was like Mike Tyson, still a champion for 2 rounds, and less than ordinary after that...

I know how you feel, as I, too, felt a cringing inside of myself for what has happened to our brother's voice, but it aint no crime... Stuff happens, Michael Jordan can't fly anymore, so what... The problem is Poogie may have Tysonesque delusions of being his former self... Like I said, TWICE last night, the man said, "I aint Lost Nothin!" He's got to get honest with himself, and get a voice that can simulate his own for his group, because it is a crime to take PAYING customers money for performances like he put on last night... By the way, that band he had was wonderful, and so was the Manhattans and Whispers Bands - straight bangin'...

SoulSisters, on the Kiss and Say Goodbye collectors edition, Blue, himself, says the Harlem is where he was born and raised, and only went to Newark, New Jersey to attend school - which is where he met the other Manhattans... Gerald Alston is from North Carolina, if I'm not mistaken...

Peace!
Isaiah
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1330
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Medusa;
I know what your saying. There could be many various reason a singer may lose his voice. I'm NOT saying it applies to any of the above because I don't know their story behind the scenes or possible cause.
Here are a few of the reasons one may destroy their vocal cords. In case of Frankie Valli constantly singing in high "falsetto" over a long period of time destroyed his vocal cords/natural voice, as in the problems with his voice today.
Other causes could be too much partying, druggin or drinking or smoking weed or cigatrettes. I think it has alot to do with the individual person's health and how their body tolerates these things. Some think smoking enhances their voice. Some realize none of the effects of the above until much later in life. Sometimes it's simply old age catching up to the person and energy level. Since Jimmy has not been drinking in so long his voice has gotten even clearer and more youthful. It may be different for sombody else. By the grace of God, Jimmy is the last of his peers, generation, and era of coming up in the music business thats still performing today. He feels truly blessed to be able to keep doing what he loves best at 79 years young, :-)! I beleive he's the last of his kind, the oldest living male jazz vocalist, the last of the living legends. I intend to do everything in my power to keep him safe, healthy, and strong so he can keep living his dream.
Medusa, thanks for the nice words about Jimmy:-).
S.S.
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Nosey (nosey)
5-Doyen
Username: nosey

Post Number: 225
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.153.113.238
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, Gerald Alston kicks "A Change is Gonna Come". Also, I've seen the Manhattans 2 years in a row and the act was slightly different each time, keeping it "fresh". I emailed them and thanked them for that.

Now, I saw Poogie this year and the "voice" fairy must have descended on him the night before because he sounded great that day just like the records.
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
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Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1331
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isaiah;
Thats not true, all Blue's relatives live in J.C. too, there must of been some confusion on the writer's part. Blue attended school in J.C. too, Lincoln High School with Kenny Kelley. Smitty went to Snider High School with Richard and Sonny, if I remember coreectly. But I will ask Blue about those liner notes. Yup, Gerald went to school in Henderson, N.C.
S.S.
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Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin

Post Number: 196
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 1:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Soulsister, Thats the name of it "Even Now", but I have the album Live In Africa too....One Love...Kdubya
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
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Username: isaiah

Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 66.119.34.39
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, SoulSister, these were not liner notes... These were the words of the Man, himself... It is a 2 1/2 minute recording where he says in his own voice that he is originally from Harlem...

Peace!
Isaiah
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1333
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 1:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isaiah;
Maybe he was born in Harlem and the family moved to J.C. later on. It could be an earlier part of the picture I'm not aware of. Any how I'll ask Blue what the exact story is. I'm pretty possitive he attended Lincoln High School in J.C.
S.S.
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
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Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 544
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.249.245.54
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 1:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never smoked, and I don't drink (only on New Years Eve). smile
I remember somebody telling me that if I smoked a weed joint, my voice would get better, (I did hear it's a bronchial dialator)...well, I'll never know. It's a bit too late for me to start smoking a weed. I really don't sing as much as I used to either, but when I have to, I know how to get my voice back in check.
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
6-Zenith
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 545
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.249.245.54
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Isaiah, what's Up?...
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
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Username: isaiah

Post Number: 39
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 66.119.34.39
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 2:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Believe me, SoulSister, I was shocked to hear him say that myself, as I beleived he was a Jersey guy myself... Frankly, it doesn't matter where ya from, it's where ya at that counts...(smile!)

Medusa, whatup, GingerBrownskin? I was looking for Juice last night, but it dawned on me that we coulda been standing right next to one another, and not have known who the other was...(smile!) a few Cats look like Mr. Freeman in our neck of town, including me, but that voice...all he'd a had to say was, what's happenin' bruh, and I'd a known, yep, this has got to the da Juice!(smile!) Next week, En Vogue's gonna be out there with Silk... Hope to see his face in the place...

Peace!
Isaiah
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
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Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1335
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 3:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isaiah;
LOL! Got that right! Plus all that matters is he has a great Baritone/Bass voice that complimented both Smitty & Gerald!!:-) :-)
S.S.
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Rhythm & Blues Showcase (rb_showcase)
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Username: rb_showcase

Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.175.243.82
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw the Delfonics at a club in New York last weekend. They were excellent. Three encores and a full house standing ovation. William Hart was in great voice, and they sung some of their rare classics. I personally don't have a problem with the Temptations tribute. There's nothing wrong with a group singing songs by other artists. It's good entertainment. Garfield looks and sounds like David Ruffin anyway and he does a good job with "My Girl".
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Kdubya (paladin)
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Username: paladin

Post Number: 198
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 9:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To R&B Showcase I dont have a problem with a Tempt tribute either as I've seen this done by other groups during lean times, The Dramatics tribute to the Tempts is legendary, however dont pee on me and try to tell me its raining.....Mr. Fleming is not David Ruffins child, yes he looks like him, sounds like him, just sing the dam song, perform your best but it's no use lying to a paying public about your roots.......Mr. Hart has lost a considerable amount of range and thats ok, shhh happens....they use every stage trick in the book to accomadate him and thats ok too...just stay real......some artists have incredible range and manitain most of it during their entire career....but the great common denominator is age /(diease).......towards the end of his career Eddie Kendricks was only a shell of the artist he once was...it could be attributed to his bout with cancer, Russel Thompkins voice to this day is still clear as a bell as is Eddie Holman........I love these guys but to see this group of Delfonics perform in this fashion is sad. I've seen them get standing ovations too....at the end of the Temptation medly which they close the show with...........

Kdubya
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Don (don)
6-Zenith
Username: don

Post Number: 629
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.57.105
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isaiah, I would say singing the song night after night over 30yrs can be a bit stressful and not easy on the outside looking in. I remember when William Hart sounded like Miles on a coupla verses, then everything else just flowed..incredible!!
Don
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REESE (mah)
2-Debutant
Username: mah

Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 12.33.141.41
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R&B, I agree with Kdubya, you can not honestly say that Wm Hart sounds as he did back in the day. He even admits to his closes friends and family that he doesn't have it like he used to. It is cool to be a die hard fan but keep it real. I love the Delfonics and I am connected in a way but even I can keep it real. If the Dramatics do or any other group do a tribute of the Temps on a limited timed set, it is usually because they do not have enough hits or they can't perform their songs as well as they can imitate other voices. The Delfonics have way to many hits to be singing songs from the Temps or anyother group. If you pay to see the Delfonics, most people feel slighted if they don't hear Hey Love or Somebody loves you, but you hear My Girl.
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
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Username: isaiah

Post Number: 43
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 216.148.246.70
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kduya and Reese, my sentiments absolutely to a tee... Like I said, stuff happens, and Will Hart losing his voice is not a crime... However, what I saw the other night, was Will Trying To Make A Fool Outta Me, and about 15-20,000 other Brooklynites... No, he didn't get no standing O, because the tradition here in my city is you get standing O's because you deserve 'em, and the hook when you deserve that... Ever been to the Apollo, R&B Showcase??? Seen any sympathy there??? What Will Hart got on Monday night was polite applause after his set, and that was out of respect to his tremendous track record...

To augement what both Reese and Kdubya were saying, not once did the Manhattans or the Whispers sing anything from someone elses book... They sang from their catalogue because they knew that is what the audience came to hear... I believe Will Hart knows that we didn't come to hear Garfield Ruffin do any David Ruffin impersonations, but that was the best he could give us...

I don't know, perhaps the venue being an outdoors affair was a problem, but it did not seem to affect Walter and Scotty Scott, nor Gerald Alston and Blue Lovett... For that matter, it didn't affect Garfield Ruffin!(smile!) All I know is that it was clear that the man was having some problems doing what came so easily to him 30 years ago on all of those hits...

Reese was on point about the Delfonics catalogue... We all know it is about as extensive as either of the other groups there the other night, but they were doing a terrible imitation of another great group... Like Kdubya said, don't pee on me and call it rain... You diss your own intelligence...
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
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Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1340
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Isaiah;
I beg to differ on the Delfonics catalog being AS extensive as the Manhattans and the Whispers, no way!! Both the Manhattans & the Whispers had hit records and some great recordings in the 60's before the Delfonics came on the scene and many more after straight to now!! What the Delfonics produced in late 60's thru eatrly 70's was great stuff but I don't think it compatres to to output and quality of the Manhattans & the Whispers, just my humble opinion but one I feel is right on.
S.S.
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
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Username: isaiah

Post Number: 44
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 66.119.33.170
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SoulSister, I have no problem with your statement at all... When I said their catalogue was as extensive as either of the two other groups, I may have over stated the case, but clearly this group has enough hit material, familiar to everybody, to perform for an hour without doing a Tempts tribute...

Don, you are right, William Hart losing his voice, I reiterate, no big deal - not to me it isn't(smile!) I fully appreciate what he's done in the business, and I gots my Delfonics material to prove that... But does that mean he can go around the country defrauding folks out of their hard-earned dollars - because of what he once was??? Would that make the paying customers feel better, because the guy defrauding them is named William Hart???

Peace!
Isaiah
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Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin

Post Number: 201
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 2:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reese and Iman/Holler !!!!!

Soulsister you are on point with your observations no arguement here, but they still have enough recordings; million sellers and big hits national and regional to keep fans enthralled for an hour. Remember many groups who are not established sing covers and other folks material because they are just starting out, hell in the case of the Delfonics they could have sung standards if that was truly the case. The public who pays their hard earned dollars will let you know about your performance whether its at the Apollo, Regal, Roostertail etc. The Whispers, Manahattans, Dells, Dramatics give you your moneys worth. Let me say this and then I'm leaving this alone.......Dennis Edwards and The Temtpation Review recieve standing ovations for singing the tempts catologue.....David Sea and the rest of the brothers thrown down......they actually do the Tempts better than the Tempts and it shows in their performance, not only can these guys sing but they can dance as good as they want...if you didn't know better you'd swear you were watching "THE TEMPTATIONS"...they can hold there own on stage with any other group out there.....thats what you pay to see...if they couldn't cut it, they wouldn't be making the bucks..........I have seen the temptations with GC and Joe Herndon and they take you back with a lot of the old songs like Dont Look Back and I'll Be in Trouble/Girls Alright with me etc and they do these songs well and they ceratinly give you your moneys worth....but if they ever became a mere shell of themselves.......I'd be the first to shout it out......
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Rhythm & Blues Showcase (rb_showcase)
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Username: rb_showcase

Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.175.159.113
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 2:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Delfonics show I saw was an excellent show. William Hart was in good voice that night. Garfield never fails to turn the place out when I see him.

In response to an earlier post: If I recall the Manhattans do a Sam Cooke tribute in their set and the Whispers do a Donny Hathaway tribute in theirs.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saluting other groups in your show, even if you have enough hits. A show tune or a standard shows some versitility. It adds variety to your act. Depending on the audience you are performing for, from a promoters stand point, it may get you the gig.
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REESE (mah)
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Username: mah

Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 12.33.141.41
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Soul Sister, I know we all have our opinions however, the Delfonics have won a grammy award for Didn't I Blow Your Mind and Was nominated for a grammy for LA LA. I do not recall the Manhattans getting a grammy. But that is not the issue. If you pay to see the Delfonics who has over 13 hit records and several recordings of standard remakes, you want to her them. I would not go to a Temptations show and expect to hear Delfonics songs.
Kdubya what's up? You make very good points. Sometimes William doesn't even show up for his shows, he sends out three guys, none of which have ever recorded as a delfonic, to perform and he keeps the money.
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Rhythm & Blues Showcase (rb_showcase)
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Username: rb_showcase

Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.175.159.113
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 3:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Theo Peoples sang with the Tempations he perfomed a cover of Whitney's version of "I Will Always Love You" and with the Four Tops the best song they perform live is "Always and Forever". (A Heatwave song). John Edwards with the Spinners used to blow the roof off the theatre with "Funny How Time Slips Away" a Willie Nelson tune. Mike Patilo in the Temptations Revue does and excellent cover of Brook Benton's "Rainy Night In Georgia". When I go to see them I look forward to this selection. Garfieled Flemming does a good job with Ruffin's material. (Although and I do agree that they should announce him as Garfield Flemming after the Temptations tribute is done).

In the live concert setting an artist has the opportunity to display their talent. They don't neccisarily have to just stick to their own material.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.61.188
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 3:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isaiah,
Juice was with Vonnie and I at the new PBS taping in Asbury Park.
Im sure that he will elaborate and post his take on the show later.

Soul Sis you hit the nail on the head with your post of 12:42.
BTW, Hazel Payne of Taste of Honey told me that she enjoyed talking with you yesterday!
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
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Username: isaiah

Post Number: 45
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 216.148.246.134
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R&B Showcase, it is true that Gerald sang A Change is Gonna Come, but he didn't do no whole medley of Sam joints(smile!)

The Whispers tribute to Donny Hathaway was written for them by Carrie Lucas in '79 or '80... It is Donny's music, and Ms. Lucas lyrics, and it is the Whispers song, a true and fitting tribute...

Gerald paid his respects to his idol, and the Whispers sang in remembrance of their lost comrades... Please, sir, don't compare this with what the Delfonics did... Once again, it is making a mountain out of a molehill, really... Can you quote me saying for the 15th time that this aint no real big deal in the larger scheme of things??? To SDForumers, just be forewarned before attending one of these Delfonics concerts...

Peace!
Isaiah
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1341
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 6:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Everyone;
Jimmy & I just returned home for a shopping center thats quite a distance from our house and this is the first thing I see. Okay, here goes...

Hi Kdubya,
The show was not my issue though I would take issue with it, I agree with you on that! Poogie looks rediculius trying to do reggae and other nonesense that the audience does not appreciate. He should be doing the original records that were so good, yes for at least an hour to 75 minutes per set. I was talking to Isaiah about the quality of output and amount vs. the Manhattans & Whispers.

Reese;
Your information is so wrong! The Manhattans did win a grammy for "Shining Star". William Hart could never touch Gerald Alston in the vocal department.
Again I agree, Poogie should be able to give his paying public at least a 60 minute show of their own songs before introducing anything else to the mix.

Hey Bro Bobby;
Good to see you back. BTW, that was Janice Marie Johnson of "Honey Cone" I was speaking with. :-)
S.S.
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1342
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 6:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GRAMMY WINNING "MANHATTANS":
M
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1343
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 6:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

M
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Soul Sister (soul_sister)
6-Zenith
Username: soul_sister

Post Number: 1344
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.43.165.74
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

G
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1940
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 4:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi R&B Showcase,

I hear what you're saying. I disagree with you to an extent & I'll tell you why. I have a friend whose company puts the shows at Wingate as well as the shows across from Keyspan Park in Coney Island. Now, she was there Monday night & believe me, she wasn't very happy with what went down & neither were here bosses.

The crowd came to hear The DELFONICS SING THE DELFONICS SONGS, point blank. The company hired them on the strngth of them singing songs that they were familiar with. They didn't need to hear anyone do a Temptations tribute, as Dennis Edwards Temptation Review had just played there. If they had wanted to see The Temptations, they could have waited for one of the FIVE TEMPTATIONS groups, or afilliate groups to come to town.
The crowd isn't paying to hear a Reggae version of Didn't I Blow Your Mind either.

Let me give you an analogy. What The Delfonics did was comparable to meeting a woman over the phone through a friend. The friend give you rave reviews about the woman & you've been talking to them for months. Now, you finally meet this woman & things look promising. Then, when it's showtime & you start kissing & dancing slow. As you dance close, there's the faint smell of Aqua Velva & the soothing feel of "HER" 5:00 shadow, brushing ever so gently against your cheek. Suddenly, you feel something hard pressing against your leg. Suddenly, you realize that something just ain't right. You ain't felling no keys, or a roll of quarters, because "SHE" don't have no pants pockets. Suddenly, you realize that.......

YOU'VE BEEN HAD, YOU DIDN'T LAND ON PLYMOUTH ROCK, BUT HIS ROCK IS RUBBING ON YOU!!!!

QUESTION?????? HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT???

In other words, YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU THOUGHT YOU WOULD OR WHAT YOU CAME FOR. Most importantly, SOME SURPRISES JUST AIN'T VERY PLEASANT, KNOW WHAT I MEAN :-)

TO make a long story short: Give the people what they want. Don't give me no brocolli & call 'em collard greens. If I want The Temptations, I want THE Temptations. When I want The Delfonics, I want THE Delfonics. To do that to an unsuspecting crowd is pure laziness & bullshit & I'll tell you this: if he continues to pull that crap, jobs are going to become scarcer than electronic equipment in a crackheads home.

The brother is simply committing career suicide. That may play elsewhere, but, in New York......NOT!! The brother needs to get a good manager & re-dedicate himself to mastering those Classic Gems that the people came to hear.

As I said, I know the young lady who books the acts for the Wingate concerts. I could try to get her to visit us & give you her perspective from a pure business standpoint. However, I can tell you right now that most people would NOT want to hear her honest truth & because of that, I doubt that I'd ask her to post. If she did, believe me, the picture will become quite clear & it's not flattering at all.

And it wouldn't be because she doesn't like them, It would be because some of these folks have come to New York & made their OWN business bad. You simply cannot mess up your bread & butter. When you don't respect your craft & burn, or bite the hand that puts the proverbial bread in your mouth, that's suicidal. After awhile, the word get around & then what?? Sponsors do not like to be burned. And when your last hit is 30 years behind you, you can't be star tripping. There's 500 other people just dying to take your place.

People aren't going to pay their hard earned money to see this kind of thing. I wasn't even there & the feedback came to me while I was watching folks sing their own songs for PBS. I'm telling you now, a few folks are on the verge of being blacklisted from certain venues here due to simply being prima donna screw ups. It's like sports: people tolerate a lot from a player who is dominant & puts the fannies in the seats. But, once he loses his ability to do that any longer, NO ONE'S going to tolerate their tripping. That, again is suicidal. Some of these folks should look at the example of the other artists from that era who still take care of business & respect themselves & their craft, as well as knowing what their fans want & expect to hear from them.

The brother needs to rethink his strategy & his song list.

(Message edited by juicefree20 on August 19, 2004)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1941
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 4:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isaiah,

My brother, you are on point with this thread. What I would say about losing ones voice is this: When you are singing falsetto, it's not usually natural. It is kinda like a false female voice & when a person is constantly singing at the top end of their vocal register & even beyond, that creates a great deal of astrain on your vocal cords.

Imagine a rubberband that is held fully stretched for an extended period of time. There is no refractory period of rest, as the rubberband is always stretched to its limit. At some point, the rubberband would lose its resiliency & ability to stretch further. Either, it breaks from any further strain, or like an elastic cuff of a jacket, stretches beyond repair.

It would be like running around every day, screaming at the top of your lungs for two hours. Eventually, you'd lose your voice & do some serious damage to your vocal cords. PERMANENT damage at that.

Then when you factor in other variables such as drinking, smoking, burning candles at both ends, etc, it's a recipe for disaster!!!

You simply have to take care of the instrument that God has blessed you with!!!
That's my take on it.
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
3-Pundit
Username: isaiah

Post Number: 46
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 216.148.246.134
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 9:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...or maybe add to that, kissin' strange men, eh???(smile!)

Great explanation for the possible reasons for the loss of one's voice, Juice... As I recall, there was some rumor to the effect that Russell Thomkins had gone through something similar, but has now returned to form... Perhaps, Poogie can have the same kind of renaissance in his career if he can admits that this is an issue for him...

On another note, these concerts are FREE to the adoring public, but the performers are there because the adoring public has expressed their adoration for them by requesting, through our Borough President's office, their presence for these dates... The artists actually get paid, and paid again through sales of their cds on prem... So, it is in their best interests to bring their best to the stage... BTW, while I could clearly hear the signature harmonies of the Whispers and Manhattans, man, I don't even know what these "Delfonics" were even singing in the background(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah
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REESE (mah)
2-Debutant
Username: mah

Post Number: 14
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 12.33.141.40
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 1:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well some of us are just die hard fans and no matter what, they can not see reality. I just want to say that if you want to see and hear a real Delfonic Concert, one where you will only hear Classic Delfonic hits (no tributes or special shout outs or reggae versions) you need to check out Wil Hart formerly of the Delfonics show. You see Wil had to cut away early on from William because he saw this happening. You will see what I mean when you see his show. If Wil has a show that requires more than 60 minutes, you will hear some classics that were rerecorded by the delfonics and maybe song from his up in coming new cd. Otherwise, just expect to her hit after hit.
Juicefree, you need to have your people contact Wil for a date or two.
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Rhythm & Blues Showcase (rb_showcase)
1-Arriviste
Username: rb_showcase

Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.175.243.104
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 2:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of us are die hard fans and are also promoters. Having booked The Delfonics because this was the perfect act for the audience that was attending a specific event. They were able to perform their own classics plus the tribute and some other standards that appeal to a diversified audience. All of those in attendence thoroughly enjoyed William Hart, Garfield Flemming and John Johnson's performance. The show had some variety to it.

A couple of weeks ago I saw the Delfonics perform at a Club in New York and they were very well received. It was an excellent show and the original lead singer who's voice is on the Grammy Award winning recordings, William Hart sounded great! No not like when he was 17 years old, but his acapella rendering of "For The Love I Gave To You" was most certainly a hightlight of the performance, and this audience too, was very satisfied. In fact they would not leave the club and demanded more!!! And they got it three encores!!! and a standing ovation.

The crowd came to see the Delfonics and they got that and more!!! Once again It was a great show!
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isaiah imani (isaiah)
3-Pundit
Username: isaiah

Post Number: 50
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 66.119.33.170
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 3:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R&B, how did I just know you were a pomotah!(smile!)

Listen, I don't know you personally, and I wont dispute the atmosphere, or the events that you depict, but what I've said here is what I saw - and heard... I will say this, that if you reccommend that people go see an artist, do so on the strength of the artist's present abilities, and not their track record...

If you are promoting the artist, make sure that the paying public is going to be handsomely rewarded for their ticket, or you are engaging in unscrupulous business practices, and should be avoided at all costs...

Recently, I read where 42-year old fighter, Greg Page had come out of retirement, and fought in a fight where the ring doctor's license had been revoked in another state, and the promotor had failed to provide paramedics and ambulances for the fight. Mr. Page was knocked cold, and suffered a stroke from the blow... As a result of more than an hour's delay in getting Mr. Page medical attention, he went into cardiac arrest... The man lives everyday of his life in extreme pain, and is a paraplegic.

Unscrupulous promotions in entertainment do not get this serious, but there is a relativity to it all... Sometimes, however, they get that serious for a fan, such as overcrowding, and stage effects that cause fires. Perhaps, a speaker blows over, and paralyzes an artist, or a riot breaks out, and the security is ineffective in controlling it. Perhaps, there's no security, because of unscrupulous promotional practices... It is all very relative, because ultimately, an unscrupulous promoter only cares about one thing, and that's making a dollar - by hook or by crook...

Peace!
Isaiah
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REESE (mah)
2-Debutant
Username: mah

Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 12.33.141.41
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 6:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Isaiah, Yeah! You are on the ball with that last post. You see when you are bais to oneside or one group, it shows up! People just need to be honest that's all. Everything is good though! Standing O for Poogie! Yeah right!!!!
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1953
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 7:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good afternoon everyone!

Hi Reese,

I hear what you're saying & I am honestly glad to hear whenever William or Wilbert do well. I liked both of the brothers & am very grieved about their situation at present. In all fairness, I think that all of us here LOVE The Delfonics. I know that we've got love for the Hart Brothers period.

As I have spoken with Isaiah on numerous occasions about our Soul singers, countless times, please let me assure you that he has no axe to grind with either one of them. I think that he's commenting on what happened Monday night. I will tell you how the COMPANY WHO HIRED HIM felt. They were pretty much dissatisfied with the performance. I won't get into any other specifics, but trust me, they are not very happy with what transpired Monday night....at all.

Again, we LOVE The Delfonics & bhow could we not? We grew up listening to their classic songs & they will always be a thing of beauty. For me, The Delfonics are a very special group to me. If fact, I was planning to bring an album cover for them to sign & had visions of speaking with them & to ask them just what happened with them musically. Well, as fate would have it, it absolutely poured that night. It was an absolutely miserable night, so, I just went to work. I figured that the show would be cancelled.

A few hours later, a co-worker came & told me about the horrible accident that befell Curtis. It was just stunning, as I just couldn't imagine such a thing occurring.

As a fan, I am extremely disappointed that we have been put into a position, where we have to choose sides between 2 BROTHERS, whom we cared about as ONE unit & not 2 seperate entities. Imagine it, we grew up enjoying both of them. Now, we have to choose one over the other. I mean, we have to choose one or the other & I ask this question: Is this situation fair to any true Delfonics fan??

As I don't know both sides of the story, how can I honestly be expected to choose between the two? As usually is the case in these situations, there are 3 sides to the story: Williams' side, Wilberts' side & the truth. Usually, the truth fits in somewhere between the two extremes.

As a lay person, with no true knowledge of the REAL issues between the brothers, why should I favor one over the other? I loved them both & I believe that it's very unfair that the fans have to make a choice at all. It's bad enough when this happens between friends. It's absolutely hoffific when you realize that they're brothers. If I'm forced to choose between them both, I'd have to choose neither. I grew up admiring the group as a whole. Simply put, I can't & won't choose between the two. I don't have the knowledge to choose sides & until the two of them come out publically & talk on the record about it, it shall remain that way as far as I'm concerned.

Everybody loses in the end.
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REESE (mah)
2-Debutant
Username: mah

Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.138
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 9:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juicefree, you do not have to choose between the two, what I was saying was check out Wil's version to hear and see a good Delfonics show. I understand that you do not know the situation as most of the fans do not, however you have seen one group already and it is sad that you were unhappy about what you saw. The truth of the matter is the Delfonics is and was always a group, if you ever ask William, he would not aggree with that truth. His truth is that HE is the Delfonics. Just ask or read one of his interviews. Then ask or read Wils response to the same type of questioning. It is a shame that the two brothers aren't together but I blame the nature of the business on that one. Look you know have two or three groups of Temps, two groups of Manhattans, two groups of Main Ingredients, several groups of Platters and Driffters. Who knows what happened. This is not just a Delfonic delima! The only thing I want people to know is that if you are dissatisfied with Williams so called show, then check out Wil's show. I am not asking you to choose who is right and who is wrong. ONE!
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Rhythm & Blues Showcase (rb_showcase)
1-Arriviste
Username: rb_showcase

Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.175.243.148
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 9:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An interesting fact is that you can recommend an artist and when some one goes to see them on an "off night" they may draw the conclusion that the artist has lost it. Some one else goes to see them and they're great. The point is that no one is 100% all of the time.
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REESE (mah)
2-Debutant
Username: mah

Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.138
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 9:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well R&B you are certainly right! But you are among the few people who has seen Poogie and said the show was good. Washington D.C.7/22/04. Read the review (constitution hall), Last week New York with the Whispers, Read the review. Atlantic City for the taping of the PBS special, did you know that Poogie's Delfonics performed. Well they did not appear on that tape. I wonder why not? Read that review as well.
No big deal, you are a true fan and or promoter so that is all that matters, right?
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Rhythm & Blues Showcase (rb_showcase)
1-Arriviste
Username: rb_showcase

Post Number: 10
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.175.243.148
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where can these reviews be read? I was at the Atlantic City P.B.S. taping. There were several acts on that show that were not at 100%, but video can do wonders and as a whole the show was superb.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1976
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 12:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reese,

You are correct in what you're saying. Unfortunately, I'm a 44 year old idealistic dinosaur type. As they're both alive & kicking (please pardon the pun) & singing, I would not pay to see either one, unless they are singing together. To me, blood is thicker than water & it's bad enough that Randy & Major aren't there any more. I don't want to see William & two guys who weren't present on those classics & likewise for Wilbert. If I can't see at least two Delfonics who sang on those classics, I'm not settling on seeing just one. I'm a stickler for the authentic. If the fellas couldn't be together due to illness or death, I'd feel differently about this. If either of them were to be forthcoming about what's really going on, I could go for that.

Until that happens, I choose none of them. You can call a camel a mule, but it ain't necessarily so. Just because Wilbert or William gets a couple of guys together & calls themselves The Delfonics, doesn't make them the "Classic" Delfonics. The "Classic" Delfonics were William, Wilbert, Randy & Major. The Delfonics just aren't The Delfonics without the two brothers. When I go to a restaurant for Filet Mignon, I expect exactly that. You can't give me chuck steak & expect me to accept it. When I pay my hard earned money, I want what I want. If it's not available, I try another store until I find it. If I can't have at least TWO of that classic lineup, I opt for none. It may be my loss, but not really. I still have all of their records & I'll continue to be satisfied with that.
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REESE (mah)
2-Debutant
Username: mah

Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 12:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I guess you really won't be paying to see a lot of concerts because, unfortunately, there are not many groups out there that contain all of the originals. Manhattans, Platters ,Temps, Blue Magic, Styistics, etc. None of these acts have all the originals and it is not due to any illness. To each his own though. I will check out Russell and the New Stylistics any time as well as Gerald and Blues version of the Manhattans. Great shows and they sound just as good asd the records too. I guess I am just a fan of the sound, specially if I am going to pay to hear it.
R&B if you were at the borgata in AC then you know why the delfonics were removed from the tape. That performance was so bad that the delfonics are not even mentioned in the line up on the dvd or the promo for the show. Since you were there, what is your reveiw of Poogie that night?
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Rhythm & Blues Showcase (rb_showcase)
2-Debutant
Username: rb_showcase

Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.175.243.254
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 2:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was at the Borgata in AC for the taping, and I do not know why their portion of the show was removed from the taping. Maybe someone else could elaborate on that.

As I mentioned in an earlier post there were several acts that were not at 100%, but with all the performers on the show for the two day event for a $50.00 price tag the audience got more than their money's worth.

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