| Author | Message | ||
  isaiah imani (isaiah) 2-Debutant Username: isaiah Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
SDForumers, one thing I have never understood about SOME of you is the reactionary way SOME of you deal with the perceived negative aspects of an entertainer's life... We are mostly 40 to upwards of late 60's and early 70's in age at this board, and yet there is this inability to accept the humanity of those whom we admire, and I would like to know why?(smile!) Additionally, I would like to know why it is quite alright to talk disparagingly of SOME entertainers, while declaring an immunity for others??? Why is it alright to talk negatively about Otis Williams, and not David Ruffin, when Otis has actually led a far more exemplary life than David??? I have read Sam Cooke's biography, about his liassons with his many different women, and his very dubious last affair at that sleazebag motel in Los Angeles, and you know what??? That man is still my idol, and he's gone be until I die... I can take folk talking about the negatives in his life not only because they are a matter of public record, but because I accept Sam's humanity... I love what the man represented beyond his being an entertainer, and accept that he had a serious weakness for the flesh of women - what real man doesn't? That being said, anything that is a matter of public record, such as one's struggle with a drug abuse problem, or even a clear issue of character such as, R. Kelly's(criminal?) dalliances with under age girls should be open to impartial conversation without all of the attempts to shout it down... If there cannot exist the ability to have at it about every entertainer's publicly disclosed issues, then, perhaps, ALL discussions about an entertainer's "negative" issues should be stopped??? I put "negative" in quotes because human frailty is not, in fact, negative, it's simply human... Some of the greats of this industry died alcoholics, drug abusers, womanizers, smoked weed, cheated and were cheated upon... A little rain must fall in everybody's life, including entertainers... We should be able to discuss ALL of it without mature adults flying into hysteria because someone they like, or have a relationship with, is the topic of discussion... Peace! Isaiah | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 413 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Welcome back Isaiah. In my opinion, I don't think Sam did anything wrong having ladies. He and his wife had an understanding. His only problem was, he was with the wrong lady at the wrong time. An artist being on drugs is so common, it's just an every day thing for them. Did you read Smokies book? (Message edited by sis on August 14, 2004) | ||
Ryon6 (tyrone) 2-Debutant Username: tyrone Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 209.219.209.68 |
Isiah, Personally, I have no problem with folks speaking about the negatives of some. Indeed, Diana Ross is my favorite entertainer but when I continuously read and hear of the negatives, yes it irritates me. She has so many positives in her life, I would rather read and hear about those instead of the negatives. Plus, a lot of the negatives are hearsay. So, I rather concentrate on the positive, it's good for the soul! | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 414 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Ryon6 - That's the way I feel about DRuffin. | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 6-Zenith Username: ladymystique Post Number: 576 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.33.227.92 |
Isaiah...I have seen you posting...welcome back...I've missed you!  First of all, I am able to take the bitter with the sweet. Entertainers, like others, are not perfect. But, doesn't make me stop listening to the great music of these artists. Sis...I believe that and also that Sam Cooke was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Remember that line in I HEARD IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE (believe half of what you see and none of what you hear)? That's true of some of what you see and hear in the media. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1920 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Isaiah: Two words bro - HERE, HERE!!! If I didn't have to run, I'd wax philosophically for a minute....OR TEN I'm with SIS & Lady M. Sam was definitely in the worng place at the wrong time. From everything that I've read, Sam was set up big time. I believe that they used Miss Boyer, who was on record as a prostitute that worked the bars. I'm sure that one Ms E James believes that it was a setup for sure. It was easy for the girl to set up Sam, because Sam & damn near everyone else in that area knew her...VERY WELL!!! If I had been Sam, as beloved as he was, I would never have been suspicious of the young lady either. Think about it, what woman in her right mind would have wanted to set up SAM COOKE??? I won't get into the morality of it all, because I can't justify it. However, it was pretty much known that after his son Vincent drowned, things in his marriage changed forever. I always found it to be quite curious, who showed up at his funeral, wearing SAMS CLOTHES. Let's just leave it at, things had changed & there was alleged to be an understanding between them. It's amazing how fast they swept the whole investigation under the rug at that time. I don't believe that ANYONE got any closure from it. Looks like Cali has always been pretty bad at investigating murders of black entertainers. All of that notwithstanding, I love most of Sams' music & regardless of his actions, he's just a man like I am. I've shot my dice a few times on a strange table or two. I can't act like men don't do the things that we do. Nevertheless, we need to stop putting our idols upon pedestals. No one could stand up to an image of perfection. If we allow them to be human, we'd be less disappointed when or, if they do mess up. WELCOME BACK ISAIAH!!! I love this thread, sometimes, we need to rethink who & what our heroes really are. Most of us don't know them like we think that we do. If walls could talk.......... (Message edited by juicefree20 on August 14, 2004) (Message edited by juicefree20 on August 14, 2004) | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 512 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.250.3.6 |
Lady Mystique, I like how U put that...that was right on time. Isaiah, I see what you're saying and I have to agree. Folks say and do what what they want. I'd rather not talk about their personal life, just listen to the stories in their music. 2 B honest, I HATE 2 hear someone drag any of my favorite people through the mud (LOL). We all have Monsters, oops, I mean skeletons in our closets...evem me (smile) | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
I agree with Medusa and Juice is also correct - IF WALLS COULD TALK, You just never know what goes on behind the scenes.....I have quite a few heros in show business.....most of mine are people I know...producers, teachers, mentors, family, and one singer and that is Olivia Newton John...I had several oportunities to meet her and I just don't want to.I got my first job in show biz because of her and her publicist....I Love her music, love her voice, love her public image, save the planet, save the trees, and the rest I don't need to know what she does. She is my all time favorite and I did believe the image she was when I was a kid - So long as no one is hurting children and animals I can ignore the rest because as Sis says - they all have stuff, it's a hard biz, regular folks have no idea the stress of a day in their lives sometimes...It looks so easy, so glamerous but it's stressful...lots of stuff,people, and things pulling at you and on top of that you have to be normal, a mom, dad, and a friend to you frineds and be normal too...It's a unique lifestyle and there is no guide book for it - Having the perk of money and fame does not make it easy, it's a great things to have..but there are cost that come and as history has shown us it's tough to be married in this biz, be sober, and stay on top.... I don't want to see anyone dragged through the mud. I guess it's a matter of what you want to discuss when it comes to them - they are entertainment for me so I don't like to hear or read people bash somone like Diana Ross when she is really no different than anyone here in my eyes, I love talented people and when I see someone changing boundaries and making a difference it doesn't matter to me their trials - their karma will catch up - I want to hear them sing. ... I enjoy the musicI don't know these people, most of my faves are not even with us anymore. I appreciate their contribution to art and music and what they do in private doesn't change diddly squat how much I love their voices and music. I see posters on this board get "bent" when their character is challenged - and we're not stars here. No one likes to be under the microscope and none of these peopl are perfect - they have perfection in the art and music adn thheir singin and that's what's important - their personal lives are just that "personal" I have learned many, many times it's not what it seems, it's not what you have read and it's now how it apprears to be.. rumors can stay as truth when people repeat the same old negatives all the time...then it's heard so much and then a nice thing is said no one beleives the nice things...... Signed, Rose Colored Glasses | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
PS I love to trash a politician though | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 416 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
I've never trashed Otis on this Forum. I dislike him for specific reasons, but I have not trashed him. I have no reason to do that. Both DRuffin and Otis are/were two different individuals, and you cannot compare the two, just as you cannot compare their singing abilities. Which is what's important. (Smile) I cannot recall that I've trashed any artist over here. I normally do not read those kinds of posts. There are only a few posters who thrive on starting negative threads. (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 66 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
I think you are very positive here Sis... I never read a post of yours that was negative.... You love the music -- it's clear that you do... | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 417 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Thank you Vickie. I do my best to try and stay positive. I love music, as it is in my soul. If I were to think of all the negative aspects of an artist, I wouldn't have time to enjoy the music. I'm listening to Thelma Houston singing "Don't Leave Me This Way." The girl know she did it on that song, and continues to do it. | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
That's how I feel too Sis... the music is too important..... we have soap operas and reality TV for the real life dramas LOL!! I'm off to bed now - You have a nice Saturday evening and enjoy Ms. Thelma - she's another one of my faves - I am proud to say I know NOTHING about her | ||
johneflat (johneflat) 4-Laureate Username: johneflat Post Number: 122 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.139 |
"Some of us got WHOLE CEMETARIES in the closet!" -EDDIE MUEPHY | ||
Kevin Goins - KevGo (kevgo) 4-Laureate Username: kevgo Post Number: 164 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.33.151.184 |
Isaiah: Welcome back to the Forum. I know how it feels to have been away myself. Baving a brother who is an actor, I learned very early that entertainers are HUMAN BEINGS and should be treated as such. I also agree about Sam Cooke's death. He was in the wrong place in the wrong time with the wrong person. A sad & tragic demise that should never overshadow the great accomplishments San achieved prior to his death (owning his own record label AND publishing company, obtaining ownership of his RCA masters). It ain't easy being in this business - Vickie's post explains it all. We should always keep in mind that these folks who entertain us, make us smile and put songs in our hearts are also human beings with quirks no different than ours. How many people do we know have the same frailities as a Diana Ross or a David Ruffin? I'll bet money many of us do and yet we would never hold our friends in contempt. Show biz folks should be shown the same courtesy and respect. Kevin Goins - KevGo | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) 5-Doyen Username: david_meikle Post Number: 320 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 82.1.160.213 |
Many people today look at the actions of others with cynicism. "Don't do as I do, do as I say." When I was at the swimming baths the other day I saw one of the better tattoos on one gentleman. It said "know yourself, respect others". Think of the impact that could make on our lives, and how this forum has improved in recent months as we edge towards such goals. David | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 2-Debutant Username: isaiah Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.139 |
Peops, good morning, and SisDetroit, thank you for the welcome back... Coming from you, it is greatly appreciated... And Kevin, thank you as well, and don't be so scarce in these parts, man...(smile!) Now, again, I think we are sanitizing things again... Juice, LadyM, Kevin, I accept the fact that Sam Cooke was a grown man, an adult, who was where Same Cooke wanted to be...that night, and every other night of his adult life(smile!) He rapped with this woman in a well-known nightspot, they got in his Ferrari, and checked into that motel together, and the rest is history... I don't have problems with that, as I, too, have made decisions I believed were good decisions, only to find out later, they were BAD decisions... That is life - for each and every one of us, and I accept it as such... That's my point... If an entertainer decides he or she is going to engage in some self-destructive behaviour, then THEY made that decision... In Pete Guralnik's book, he touches on how folk brought drugs to Ray Charles - had too - because Ray was blind, and therefore would've had some difficulty in obtaining the drugs on his own... O.K., that is a sighted person's faulty logic, thinking a blind person is helpless without the help of the sighted, but let's accept Pete Guralnik's logic for a minute... Does that mean Ray was compelled to indulge himself of what was brought to him??? No, he made a decision, as do we all, and I don't see where I have to get too excited about it... It is a matter of public record, which Ray, himself, proudly disclosed... If he can openly discuss his demons in a best-selling book, then who is anyone at this or any forum to shout folks down who want to discuss it??? Rick James, too, openly discussed his issues for the world to see on VH1... His recent passing does zero to change the information the he, himself, disclosed... I respect that about him, as he was always on front street about his lifestyle... There is no need for me to whitewash and sanitize a thing... What's interesting is that after it's been discussed ad nauseum, there really aint nothing to talk about anymore... Once again, I don't have a desire to talk "negatively" about anyone, but some at SDF do... I am wondering what makes it AOK to discuss one artists demons, while another artists demons are quarantined from exposure... Sis, you mentioned David's wife and children as a reason to protect his legacy, and I don't disagree... My question, then, using that logic, is doesn't Otis Williams have children, as well??? Doesn't Diana Ross have children, as GoGoGirl pointed out the other day??? Doesn't R. Kelly and P.Diddy have Mothers, and Aunts, and Grandmamas, who might read this board, too???(smile!) What, again, will be our criteria for who is, and isn't, discussed??? I am not challenging whether or not to discuss the PRIVATE lives of people and their kinfolk, as they are not a matter of PUBLIC DISCLOSURE... I am saying that publicly disclosed facts about anyone should not be shouted down, including folks who are friends and associates... If Whitney and Janet and Diana can be spanked from one end of this board to the other, without a discouraging word, then so should the sacred cows and patron saints of the industry... Peace! Isaiah | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
Why "spank" anyone here period..??? Celebrate what they do , accomplished, and add to our world...Like Sis said only a few people here get negative about these artists - great, if that's what one likes to talk about is some public figures problems then go for it - I, like Sis avoid those threads because I don't like smut and I don't like negative talking, whether it's facts that are known and admitted by a celeb or rumor most of the time it's not important to thew whole picture of what they contribute through their art and music. - Over paid ball players break the law, cheat, and indulge in drugs..but they have a lot of fans because people just don't care, they love their sport... Signed, Still loving it here in my Rose Colored Glasses and enjoying the music.. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 2-Debutant Username: isaiah Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.139 |
Vickie, your statement above means that this thread does not concern persons like yourself, then, correct??? Since you have made your statements here, however, I want to know how one can write - or read - books, which disclose the private and public details of an entertainment figure, and then say they don't like dealing with issues of this nature(smile!) Doesn't that sound a bit strange to you, if not totally hipocritical and disingenuous??? PEACE!~ Isaiah | ||
Don (don) 6-Zenith Username: don Post Number: 614 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.183.49 |
Hello Isaiah Don here, I'm glad you are back. I really enjoyed your Sam Cooke thread and website link to Sam. Thank you for sharing the info. I do enjoy reading threads you've created, and at they can be entertain to spark 'ones' imagination. Don in Chi | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 418 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
I have never indicated that DRuffin's legacy should be protected. His own contributions "as an artist" has seen to that. I mentioned that the "lies" regarding DRuffin in the movie was/could be believed for all time, which no doubt embarrassed his children, and could cause his grandchildren to be ashamed to proclaim that "DRuffin is my grand-daddy." I also indicated that the "truth" would have been more than sufficient to make the movie a hit. Things being said about Otis (or Whitney) are not lies. There is no reason for Otis's children to be upset simply because some people dislikes him. No one has set out to damage his non-exemplary life simply because of vengence or for whatever reason, while in the same breath speak with a fork tongue by saying "I love Otis." (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 419 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
BTW: I watch the "The Temptations" movie periodically, remembering the great music we had in my young days. The Classic Five was our group, and we have not given them to any other generation. We just allow them to listen to the music. The Temptations of today is not the same group even if there is still one member from the Classics. I accept the good, the bad, and the ugly, but I do not claim the lies. (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 69 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
HA HA HA This hipocritical and disingenuous person thinks you are a hoot...Sis must be a hipocrit to the if she watches The Temptations Movie.... Clue #1: You can enjoy, a book, a movie, a record, and not focus on the neagtives of it, it does not make you a hipocrit to do so. I love to read (smile) I love to write (smile) I love to listen to music (smile) Just because I do these things does not mean I partake in a public forum or elsewhere in my life where a discussion is degrating the singers or any other entertainer I like...I like knowledge (smile) HAHAHAHAHAHA - LOL | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 420 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Also, since I still love the Classic Five (which includes Otis), but currently dislike Otis, I must be hypocritical. Can I have it both ways please?? (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 2-Debutant Username: isaiah Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 149.174.164.84 |
Don, thanks for the welcome! I've always been instructed by the wisdom you bring to the board, as well... As a Chicagoan, I knew you'd dig the Ultimate Sam Cooke Website, as I did... Thanks for the prop... Peace! Isaiah | ||
Ryon6 (tyrone) 2-Debutant Username: tyrone Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 12.20.58.68 |
SisDetroit, Will you please email me at this address ryon6@prodigy.net please? I have a question that I would like to ask you. Thanks, Tyrone | ||
Ryon6 (tyrone) 2-Debutant Username: tyrone Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 12.20.58.68 |
Thanks Sis. Tyrone | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 421 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
You are welcome Ryon6. Okay, Isaiah, anymore grievances? Of course, as you know, my responses are just my own feelings, and does not relect anyone else's opinions. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 518 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.251.24.69 |
I don't know any celebrities up close and personal enough to say if I like or dislike them, (and I wouldn't want to say that about anyone, celebrity or not). I can only say I like or dislike whatever it is they do as far as entertainment. They're in the Limelight and folks are gonna talk, see this & that, secrets are gonna slip out somehow, somebody will know somebody and tell somebody etc. There's no one on the face of this earth that's perfect and that means everyone has a good, bad and ugly side about them...because we're what you may wanna call 'human beings'. We Like their music, we like their voice. Their other side is their human side, be it good, bad, or ugly. If they sing and they do drugs, then they're no better than the neighborhood addicts. Just because they're famous and get on stage and perform, does NOT make them any better? A Drug user is a Drug user, A Drunk, is A Drunk etc. Now Sis, I'm sorry, but there aint no kind of understanding in existence to have me accept the fact that My Husband shares his manhood with other women. Was she tricked or trained, that's very, very sad, if Sam Cookes' wife was dealing with that. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 422 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
LOL, I don't know why or what the understanding was between Sam and his wife, but some legally married couples do agree on living their separate lives while still living together. I realize men, as well as women, will have affairs outside of their marriages. The only difference for the artist, is that they have more choices of partners, of all shapes, sizes, and colors, across the country, in every state, and every city, on each day, and each hour. LOL Ruby Dee said she knew her husband was messing around, and that she could either accept it or reject it. She said she chose to accept it. She is a wise lady. As Isaiah has said, the lives of celebrities are open books for the public. Nothing wrong with that. You can talk all day about the drug addiction of celebrities. Drugs in the entertainment setting is the norm. (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) (Message edited by sis on August 15, 2004) | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1326 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.18.121 |
Quick story. My late wife , Gigi was a HUGE Diana Ross fan. We have been , individually and collectively to many of her concerts and she purchased tickets for many of out friends numerous times. In 1984 I was working at the Power Station in NYC quite a lot and during this time, Ms Ross was working on her second RCA album. One evening, Gigi went with me and we ran into Ms Ross in the lobby of the studio. This was during her affair with Gene Simmons of Kiss who was with her. Gigi aproached Ms Ross for a simple autograph. Even after mentioning that they had a mutual friend, being Gil Askey, Ms. Ross was EXTREMELY rude and arrogant to her, and from that day on, she wanted absolutely nothing to do with MS Ross, and neither did I,as there is no need for these "stars" to be rude to the fans who made them, because what goes up, must come down....way down!!. | ||
Vickie (vickie) 4-Laureate Username: vickie Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
I can understand that Bobby, I feel that way about some of the people I have work in TV with over the years...I just don't care to watch their show after I've watched how they acted and treated people all week/season/year. I do give people a try though if I have more than one experience then that's it ......Years ago I saw an actor on a HIT show cheat on his wife - (well leave a party to cheat) I know it happend cause the woman was friends with a friend of mine and confirmed it happened - I've never like him since...I don't need more than that - his wife was super nice and sweet... they've since divorced | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 522 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.97.105 |
...and isn't that's too bad that Drugs in the entertainment set is considered "NORMAL"? That's why I've always believed that celebraties are for entertaining and not Role Models. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 2-Debutant Username: isaiah Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.33.135 |
SisDetroit, did I call you out with my post, or something?(smile!) Your response to it is highly emotional, and highly personalized... Let me say this, I respect my elders to the extent that my elders can find it within themselves to respect me, so I wont say all that I really feel like saying to ya publicly... It is a level of respect you haven't extended to me, but I aint gonna let it be a thang, understand??? Your comments about Otis stand in direct contrast to the strong defense of David Ruffin's honor, his family and friends... I say Otis Williams' family and friends deserve the same level of respect... I know neither of these two men, and have zero personal feelings about them beyond their art, and that level of objectivity is what led me to ask at an earlier time, what was all of the angst directed toward him all about... After reading the posts from that discussion, I'm still not convinced the guy deserves to have all this spleen vented at him... You say he is "unexemplary", and I say that a man who has held his group together for 40 years has done an exemplary job... What he did in his personal life, I cannot comment on, because I was not there... But even that I have rarely heard of any negative press concerning the man - until this movie hit the screen - speaks volumes within the silence... Then again, Otis Williams and David Ruffin was not the focus of this thread to begin with, and it is not now... The point was mature adults having discussions about anything under the sun, and not attempting to shout each other down because something strikes them in their small little world as unpleasant... Who and what gives anyone the right to say this or that one cannot be discussed, should not be discussed??? Who decides what is the criteria for which artist will be pilloried while another is pampered??? Your relationships with these artists doesn't concern me, SisDetroit, and I do believe that if I should ever say something which does not meet with your approval about the artist that you should confront me directly, and not speak outta both sides of your mouth - and you know damned well what I'm talking about... At the risk of being banned again from this site, I will leave it right there... Peace! | ||
Moan (moanman) 1-Arriviste Username: moanman Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.119.145.245 |
In another cyber-arena, I wanted to write about the life and times and death of Rick James. I wanted to touch on his gift as a musician, singer, producer, and arranger. I wanted to say how his words and music provided much flava to the rousing soundtrack of my turbulent teens and early twenties. I wanted say: �Thanks for all that good shizznit, man.� Hey-- I truly mean that! I also wanted to say how it was a sin and a shame that lifestyle and temptations got in the way of his genius. But I didn�t harp on it. I could�ve waxed about his publicly known proclivities, but with his death, so fresh, it seemed more like a disservice to him and his MUSICAL contribution. Let the media vultures descend to eat away at the man�s carcass. In some cases, and in some places, indeed they have. Instead, I wrote in another forum, and now here, quite simply that: I loved the Funk and Roll of him, the flow and thump of his pounding basslines, and I dug how he succeeded in inventing a new label, a new sound� how he founded it, perfected it, did his own damn thing with it. I dug how he leapt over genres and color-lines, like a jester, part lewd gangsta, part funky merry-prankster, and how he made some of the most wicked music Motown had ever produced. I want to publicly thank him for �You & I� and �Fire and Desire� and �Superfreak� and �Mary Jane� and for introducing me to Teena Marie. I could have written a lot more about his humor (�I�m Rick James, bitch!�), his spaced-out stage clothes, his dating of the beauties, his penchant for excess, and the ultimately the mess it made. But instead, I�ve chosen to use my words to celebrate him and his enduring legacy. So, RIP, Rick, The Rickster, Mr. Punk Funk, Mr. Funk and Roll, Mr. Rick James. Wherever you are, I hope you�re playing a softer song, and maybe my sweet Syreeta will float in for the chorus, and perhaps she�ll sing along. That�s the way I choose to roll here, and in other places. The dissing of celebs is really getting to be old hat. It�s been said that we ALL have skeletons in our closets-- and there is a sad, and mad scary truth in that reality, isn't there? Oh. Glad to see you back, in fighting form, and rockin� this funky joint again, papa. ;-) One. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1343 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.9.134 |
Glad to see ya back, Moan!! | ||
Moan (moanman) 1-Arriviste Username: moanman Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.119.145.245 |
urruh, thanks for the sentiment, E. ;-) One. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1345 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.9.134 |
Two! | ||
paulie3$hoes (paulie3hoes) 4-Laureate Username: paulie3hoes Post Number: 126 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.9.134 |
t'ree | ||
Destruction (destruction) 5-Doyen Username: destruction Post Number: 289 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 199.173.224.24 |
...Now don't you step on my Blue Suede Shoes. | ||
Vickie (vickie) 4-Laureate Username: vickie Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 64.236.243.31 |
Hey SIs, I respect ya - I respect your honesty, integrity, and your maturity...And most of all the fact you are emotional and passionate about this music is a plus in my book.. A+ Bless You Sis... Vickie | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 425 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Your statement: "We are mostly 40 to upwards of late 60's and early 70's in age at this board, and yet there is this inability to accept the humanity of those whom we admire, and I would like to know why?(smile!)" My response: Who decided that the elders have the "inability" to accept the humanity? Your statement: "Why is it alright to talk negatively about Otis Williams, and not David Ruffin, when Otis has actually led a far more exemplary life than David???" My response: No one said it's not nice to talk negative about David Ruffin. Everytime a discussion starts on DRuffin, someone repeats his negatives. I'm saying that if someone continues to repeat what they've heard or experienced with DRuffin, which is contrast to what I experienced, then it is my right, and my duty, to tell you of my experience, which is the other side of the coin. I cannot recall anyone talking negative about Otis except to say that he as a producer, allowed the lies to remain in the movie, which lowers the light of the other Classics, and making himself an angel. This is not negative, this is the truth. Your statement: We should be able to discuss ALL of it without mature adults flying into hysteria because someone they like, or have a relationship with, is the topic of discussion..." My response: It's not what you say, it is how you say it. Your statement: Sis, you mentioned David's wife and children as a reason to protect his legacy, and I don't disagree... My question, then, using that logic, is doesn't Otis Williams have children, as well?" My response: Yes, and I wonder what Otis's children will ask him how the lies came about in the movie. As of yet, I haven't seen any devasting lies about Otis, that would cause his children to be publicly embarrased. Your statement: "I am saying that publicly disclosed facts about anyone should not be shouted down, including folks who are friends and associates..." My response: I've not seen that publicly disclosed "facts" have been shouted down. However, when lies are told publicly, and I know facts of the truth, then if I wish, I will "quietly" publicly inform of my experience that DRuffin was not just a spoiled idol, he was a pleasant human being as well. Your statment: "But even that I have rarely heard of any negative press concerning the man - until this movie hit the screen - speaks volumes within the silence..." My response: And it will continue to be silent, as none of his close friends have anything to gain by disclosing his private life. (I do not know him personally.) | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 426 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Thank you Vickie! | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 523 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 155.139.68.10 |
Each and everyone here should be respected, and so are the folks and topics we discuss here on this Forum. Otis has done a GREAT Job with the Tempts, and he's still here to tell about it. David is gone, but he was great in his time. I really don't think (and I could be wrong), either oneof them would care who defends whom, it's Temptations forever...and so far Otis is still with us...I appreciate what he has done and what he's doing. I also appreciated David E. Ruffin. He's missed. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 3-Pundit Username: isaiah Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.33.135 |
Moan, welcome back to the forum... Again, its a nice sentiment you've expressed, but my point is not about whether folks are going to speak ill, or not about performers... If the information is out there, and very public, none of us has any right to tell another forumer what they should and should not express... My concern is that if it's allowed for one artist, then all artists should be open to the same level of discussion, and SDF politicos should not be running aroung attempting to pontificate about which artist is going to be quarantined, and which aren't... We have seen a zillion rumors spread about Michael Jackson, but I've yet to see the man convicted of any of the charges leveled against him.... Many of us who get all uptight about our favorite artist being dragged through the mud, participated in the rumor-mongering about Michael Jackson... The same can be said about James Brown, and his recent domestic violence episodes ... I wanna know who decides this discussion is valid, while discussions of other artists and personalities is not??? Peace! Isaiah | ||
Moan (moanman) 1-Arriviste Username: moanman Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.119.145.245 |
In a more perfect world than this, everyone from layman, the man-on-the-street to artists would be treated equally. But the whole phenomenon of celebrity seems to be about the erecting and tearing down of demigods and deities. Maybe this is, in part, due to human nature, and part to the unnatural propensity we have to hitch our dreams and fantasies to the glowing star of celebrity. There is a Zen theory that basically ascribes to the notion that: �what people think about me isn�t any of my business.� To some extent, the same could be said of celebrity. So few us truly KNOW them, thus we place our impressions, our unreal expectations on them, based upon what we *think* or *believe* them to be. Some of us construct these impossible archetypes. Then, when one disappoints us, falls short of our concept, our *dream* of them (many times by displaying an all-too-human flaw, weakness or frailty or weakness), that celebrity has dared to upset that mythical apple cart, destroyed our collective fantasies. It�s arguable just what really makes a �good guy� versus a �bad guy� in celebrity circles, or in our daily lives. That judgment ultimately falls to us, as individuals. Can we be real? The reality is, we know in our heart of hearts, it�s damn hard enough just to be a good and decent human being sometimes. Imagine that AMPED to the nth degree by the hype and weight and volume and stress of celebrity! Idols topple and fall. They become these flawed people again. They reveal their feet of clay, and *we are tested on just how loyal we are to them, and/or their artistry. You got to respect those true, down-by-law admirers and steadfast friends who continuously have the back of a celeb. Here, I mean those ones who will we ride or die to the end. When a celebrity is in trouble, in a state of career suicide, in the public toilet of our media-driven perceptions (what up, Mike!), and most especially, in *death*, folks like dear SisDetriot will stand up and vigorously defend said celeb as fiercely and mightily as one might defend a good friend or family member. (Note today: there was a turn-out of supporters outside of MJ�s court appearance. The crowd was small by arena standards, but loyal nonetheless.) So it�s no surprise there is a discrepancy between whom and which celebs are supported here and elsewhere. Very few get to tell us their stories. Remember: �What people think of me is really none of my business.� Books, biographies, gossip columns, interviews, magazines, and now the net only give us sketchy views that dwell (all romantic) on the positives, in high times, and in low abysmal periods-- only mad negative ish, just pieces of scandal and fragments of accusation. Ever notice how the media hardly ever defends? It builds, tears down, stands by to see if you�ll rise again-- but rarely it DEFENDS. So we everyday people (the public) will choose for themselves just whom they�ll defend. Granted that barometer is skewed. There also will be those other celebs whom some will choose to devalue, dismiss and sometimes, disrespect. Plain and simple: we �love� some of them, and we can�t stand some others. It appears to be based upon experience, on history, on personal or visceral preference. Is it fair to applaud and praise some artists, then NOT acknowledge (publicly) their fug ups, shortcomings and weaknesses? No. Is it fair at the same time to devalue, dismiss and ridicule others� artists who do not share the same history with the heart? Urruh. No. It�s not fair in the least. But, in some cases, it�s understandable. Again, in this convo, we�re dealing with a topic as complex, controversial and subjective as celebrity-- those people who by their very presence in our homes, on our radios, stereos, film, video and TV screens, become the stuff of our (sometimes, wet) dreams. We�re talking about those strokers and soothers, those serenaders and speakers of the human heart, jack! And when was the heart ever an entirely *rational* organ? Feel me? One. | ||
Soul Sister (soul_sister) 6-Zenith Username: soul_sister Post Number: 1320 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 65.43.165.74 |
Hey Moanman L.; So good to see you here as well as other places Moan!! AMEN, now that was truly right-on! Your 3rd. paragraph says what I have witnessed time and time again from fans and idol worshipers in the music world. You put into words what I have reiterated over and over again, they make up in their own minds what they want to beleive about an Artist and most of the time its not reality. I just have to shake my head sometimes. (CHUCKLE)....... Take care, Your sis S.S.J. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 3-Pundit Username: isaiah Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 149.174.164.84 |
Moan, as per the usual, you've summed things up beautifully, and I will leave it there(smile!) Peace! Isaiah | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 6-Zenith Username: ladymystique Post Number: 596 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.33.227.92 |
Moan welcome! I read your posts and thank you for posting that wonderful post on Rick James. He was one of my favorites and I still can't believe he is gone! I loved him for his music, but he didn't half-step about his lifestyle and that I respect him for. It would have been a different story if he hid that life and after his death we just find out about it. Like I said, I don't believe that entertainers are perfect, they are just human beings and regardless of what happens in their personal lives, I will still listen to the music. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1943 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
I guess that I'll weigh in here. I checked out the DetroitYes site & I will say this: if Rick was alive to see some of those posts, Rick would be laughing his butt off. Rick was a brother who kept it real, didn't front & was no hypocrite. No one could possibly dog Rick, because Rick put his own business out. Rick let you know that he was going to live his life, his way, with no apologies. While I wouldn't have chosen his course, I sure respected the hell out of his for not trying to act as though he was Mr Rogers. I loved his music & I didn't know him personally as to say that I loved him as a person. Chances are that we would have gotten along, as I speak my mind without any pretenses as well & I'm no yes man. I don't think that Rick would really respect people like that, as "yes" men, are usually so due to selfish motives. I respected him for being Rick & not running from his frailities & excesses. I respect him for being real enough that he could even have a sense of humor about it. For people who keep it real, warts & all, I have to say that Rick & Bonnie Pointer are two of the realest people that I'ved ever met. Either you accept them warts & all, or you just step off from them. Either way, you know & knew what you were in for. His lifestyle will never detract from my appreciation for his music, as I seperate the two entities. It's just sad to think that we won't get to see what else he may have pulled out of his musical bag of tricks. He'll be missed by any real Funk fans!! There is a message for anyone who truly listens. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 3-Pundit Username: isaiah Post Number: 47 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.34.39 |
Juice, I agree wholeheartedly... That's why I loved Redd Foxx, Miles Davis, Richard Pryor - who told the world his mama was a lady of the night, and didn't give two cents what anyone thought of that... It takes a man of courage to bring it like that, and if folk can't appreciate the humanity of a guy like that, so be it... The man was as real as he wanted to be, and that's far more than what most of us can handle... In the end, however, we wind up respecting, if not loving, those kind of people... They represent most, through their candor and courage, what all of us aspire to... Peace! Isaiah |
