| Author | Message | ||
  FrankM (frankm) 2-Debutant Username: frankm Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.152.61.83 |
Someone has contacted me to ask If I ahve any knowledge of an English female songwriter who contributed material to Motown. I have never heard of this but then again I find out new stuff on this board every week. So any thoughts on this. I am aware that the Four tops recorded Mike Pinder's (Moody Blues) "Simple Game" and "So deep within You" as well as Justin Hayward's "You Stole My Love". Are there any other examples of English wrietrs working with Motown Acts? | ||
Davie Gordon (davie_gordon) 4-Laureate Username: davie_gordon Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
HI Frank, They're thinking of Pam Sawyer who's originally from Essex (Romford I think). She worked mainly as a lyricist and has tons of great songs to her credit. Wonder what she's doing now since good lyricists seem to be redundant in these days of "grooves" - i.e pad out oneesentence till it lasts four minutes. DAvie | ||
FrankM (frankm) 2-Debutant Username: frankm Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.155.225.46 |
Thanks for that Davie, I'll note her down as the most likely candidate but are there any others? | ||
Davie Gordon (davie_gordon) 4-Laureate Username: davie_gordon Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
None that I'd call soul writers - there's Kathe Green but she's more pop - and we're still haggling over whether she's English or Scandinavian on the official Motown forum. Basically if there are any others Pam's the only one who's done anything significant. I don't have time to do her credits but try doing a search on the BMI database at www.BMI.com or the All Music Guide at www.allmusic.com Davie | ||
mel(andthensome) (mel) 6-Zenith Username: mel Post Number: 421 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.43.74.75 |
Pam Sawyer a great writer features on many a good track. playing a 45 now on Chicagos Special Agent Label(no.2013) Barbara Acklins 'Im not mad anymore' written by Pamela Sawyer and Lori Burton. cheers mel | ||
mike s (mike_s) 4-Laureate Username: mike_s Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
If I remember right Pam teamed up with Lori Burton when she first went to the States and later signed with Motown. Burton didn't go with her though. I think one of their first hits was Prince Harold's Forget About Me in 1966 on Mercury, arranged by the great Leroy Glover. Also did It Won't Hurt for the O'Jays. Did she write the music or the words?? | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 5-Doyen Username: dvdmike Post Number: 228 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 65.208.234.61 |
Sawyer and Burton also wrote The Young Rascals' first single, "I Ain't Gonna Eat My Heart Anymore" | ||
Davie Gordon (davie_gordon) 4-Laureate Username: davie_gordon Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
MIke, in most cases Pam's the lyricist. You're right about Lori Burton being her first writing partner when she came to New York. The pair were signed by Berry Gordy to Jobete but Lori later decided she wanted to stay in N Y so Pam teamed up with other writers. The pair of them recorded as The Whyte Boots who had a single "Nightmare" which is legendary among girl group collectors - about a cat fight that ends up in death. Think Shangri-Las. About a year ago I did a lot of research into Pam's career - maybe I'll dig out the notes and do a bit more work on them. She is / was a great talent. | ||
Phil (phil) 4-Laureate Username: phil Post Number: 117 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.36.156.45 |
I've tried to do some research on google, but I couldn't find a lot, except that she was born in London. I also saw she co-wrote with Ivy Joe hunter the great song "Desperate situation", that is on Marvin Gaye "Lost & Found" CD. I checked my old Motown LP's, and I saw her name (always associated with others) on Four Tops' "Soul Spin", "Changing Times", "Nature planned it" and Supremes'"Love Child", that se co-wrote. Davie's right, I suppose that she was the lyricist, as on "Just Seven Numbers", she's associated with Leon ware. Where is she, now ? | ||
mike s (mike_s) 4-Laureate Username: mike_s Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
Didn't know she had co written Desperate Situation. Got to say Ivy Jo's own version is my preference to Marvin's! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 997 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.27.222 |
Pam had a web site but I cant seem to locate it, as its under her pub/prod co's came, which i cant seem to remember right now. Ginko please!!. | ||
Phil (phil) 4-Laureate Username: phil Post Number: 119 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.36.156.82 |
Mike, if you say you prefer Ivy Joe's version, it must be something ! Can you tell me what label & number ? Thanks. | ||
John Lester (theboyfromxtown) 4-Laureate Username: theboyfromxtown Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.131.142.248 |
Desperate Situation was first issued on Jimmy Ruffin... Pamela comes from Romford in Essex...my part of the world! | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 401 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.228.222.67 |
I'd forgotten that "I'm Not Mad Anymore" (one of my all-time favourite songs) was written by Sawyer and Burton! What's the story on a NY-written song being picked up by a small Chicago label, who used, almost exclusively, songs from their in-house writers; and when they DID go outside, it was almost always other Chicago writers??? Did Barbara, or her manager hear that song by accident? -and like it so much she HAD to record it? | ||
Davie Gordon (davie_gordon) 4-Laureate Username: davie_gordon Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
Phil, about the Tops "Just Seven Numbers" the L Ware there is LaVerne Ware not Leon Ware. LaVerne Ware's a pseudonym for Gloria Jones. As far as I know Pam never worked with Leon Ware so when you see the credits "L Ware - P Sawyer" you can take it that it's Gloria and not Leon. There's a lot of confusion over this - a lot of Gloria's work get attributed to Leon Ware. Robb, I've no idea how Special Agent managed to pick up on the song. I wonder if there's a NY version still to surface. Possibly Lori Burton herself ? - Does anyone have a track listing for her Mercury album ? It's good to see so much interest in this topic. I'll do some work on the Burton - Sawyer listing and post the results towars the end of the week. | ||
mike s (mike_s) 4-Laureate Username: mike_s Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
John - didn't know Jimmy had the first version of Situation. It was on his recent Ultimate Collection double album in the UK and first appeared on a UK only album back in the 60s. That latest cd credits Frank Wilson and Pam Sawyer as writers with Frank producing.However,the Ivy Jo single and the Marvin album I have credits Pam and Ivy Jo...hmmm. Phil- I think it was on the album that was set for release on VIP in late 70/early 71 but never got issued. Don't think it has appeared elsewhere but may be wrong on this. I have got it on a 'home'cd of rare tracks (not released- sorry!) but believe it was available on acetate some years ago.John or Davie may know more. Ivy's version is much harder and more intense, closer to Jimmy's than Marvin's. Perhaps Harry W could look at unearthing that album and any other stuff by Ivy as his I Still Love You was pretty good too. | ||
Phil (phil) 4-Laureate Username: phil Post Number: 120 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.36.161.102 |
Davie, thanks for the info, I didn't know that L Ware was for Laverne, and that it was a pseudo for Gloria Jones. On the LP "Diana & Marvin", "My mistake" is credited to Pam Sawyer & G Jones,this time she didn't use her pseudo ! Mike, thanks to you, too. I'm not a 45 collector, and I've NEVER heard Ivy Joe' voice. But maybe one day ? |
