| Author | Message | ||
  NY-DELL (dell) 3-Pundit Username: dell Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 38.117.188.10 |
I've had numerous conversations with my friends regarding "Contest Winners" who get these great contracts, from shows like American Idol & Star Search, etc... How does the industry look upon these winners and what effect does it have on the industry, are they really respected ? it would seem to me that someone busting there hump for years would have a problem with this. I saw Mariah Carey on the Today Show a few months back with a contest winner...when Katie Couric asked what advise she could give she said "I really don't know what to say I never had it so easy I had to work for everything I ever got...I didn't have the luxury of winning a contest" or something along those lines...I'm sure that lottery winners are not looked upon the same as wealthy families with old money...What's your take on this ? | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 787 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.51.238 |
You've got to crawl before you walk!! Everybody's got to pay some dues! I have absolutely no respect for MOST of these contest winners. There are very few who possess that "X factor", that je'nes' se'quois(sp) that certain something that sets them apart from all the rest. Most of these people have very quick careers and poof..they are gone in a puff of smoke, and are yesterday's news. Give me a seasoned pro any day, or at least someone with the desire to work REAL HARD to make it...for the long haul. I am not easy on people..I am a task master, and anyone new who desires to work with me, prepare yourself, but at the end of the day, you will thank me for it, and have no regreats. | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
I agree with Bobby, Having been in TV for so long I learned from the best of the best in my envoirnment..Discipline, focus, details, being a team player are all important to any project you tackle.. If you want to succeed, hard work and dedication is what's needed........The best part is watching something grow from an idea into something that can touch people and inspire them....Passion is contagious.. I would't want to win a career in a contest... The contest doesn't groom you for what's ahead with that career... | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 788 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.51.238 |
In the words of that famous phil-os-o-pher, Aldous H. Noteworthy.................. These are the four stages of an artists' career: 1. Who's Johnny Newbag? 2.Get me Johnny Newbag 3.Get me a young Johnny Newbag 4.Who's Johnny Newbag? | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
very true Eli | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 5-Doyen Username: rodmann Post Number: 297 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.59 |
I don't get it. Why would anyone respect a contest winner less than they would a recording artist who didn't win a contest? Isn't the music industry today really one big contest? Who can get the attention of a record producer or label head? Who's got the best image to sell records (forget about talent)? I can respect a Fantasia Barrino, Kelly Clarkson and Ruben Studdard much more than an Ashanti, Britney Spears or Llyod Banks. Fantasia, Kelly, Ruben might not be the best all around performers but they got where they are on vocal T-A-L-E-N-T alone! Not who they knew or who they're screwing. They sang their azz's off LIVE, week after week on national television at a time when the most popular "singers" (Ashanti, Justin Timberlake, Usher, etc) have questionable singing skills and ALWAYS lip-synch. Look at an "artist" like Ashanti. She got her record deal by being Murder Inc's first call studio floozy. Then Irv Gotti decided to give her a record deal. She obviously didn't get one on talent! You can find that type of "talent" on the corner of any Main St. in America! And Mariah Carey's not one to talk either. She won a contest called "Screw The Boss". She squeezed Sony Music president Tommy Mottola in all the right places and then reaped the benefits of his juice! She says that she "had to work for everything she got" but if she hadn't have been sleeping with one of the most powerful men in the industry she wouldn't have been in a position to work for anything. She was a good singer in the beginning but if it wasn't for her relationship with Tommy she never would've had the career she's had! I wonder if this sort of snobbery is what kept talented performers who happened to win TV contests like Cheryl Lynn (The Gong Show) and Peggi Blu (Star Search) from making it to the top of the music biz like they should have? (Message edited by Rodmann on July 24, 2004) | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 433 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Hmmmmmm! Rodmann makes some interestng points. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 806 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.51.238 |
That may be so, but I have NO respect for "automatic stars". Most of them are flashes in the pan and have the shelf life of a roach! Even Fantasia's and Diana's singles dropped WAY down on the Billboard charts. I will reiterrate, You have got to crawl before you walk. | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 435 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Bobby, I'm in complete agrement with you. Unfortunately, at times, things get out of whack. In reality, I don't think I would enjoy going into the studio with one of these " Flashes ". As you most certainly know it takes a certain amount of professional sophistication to properly sing in the studio. I'm sure many of their recording sessions were a " Pull ". | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 372 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.232.142.144 |
I haven't seen any of the current or recent TV singing contests, so I can't comment on them. But, I was told Frances Nero won a contest, and with it a "guaranteed" record issued by Motown. I was also told that her "entering" Motown Corp. through that contest was why they didn't push her career (or possibly didn't even CONSIDER recording her more. If her two recordings on her Soul record were any indication, I think she would have done very well. Was this an early example of "no respect for a contest winner?" Connie Van Dyke also got her "guaranteed" Motown record through a contest. I believe there were a few more during the 1960s. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 5-Doyen Username: rodmann Post Number: 301 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.59 |
 Oh My! Look at that last post of mine. I hate it when I write something off the top of my head and when I come back and read it later, it sounds SO harsh and angry! LOL. Eli and Vickie, I actually agree with you two in a way. (Who am I to disagree with people who have worked in the music biz for years?!) I think that you two came from time when a "professional" was really a pro and an "amateur" was somewhat amateurish. Today I think those lines have been blurred. It seems as if "artists" are getting rich and famous before they learn their craft. They're still amateurs. And the reason they got record deals in the first place is also shady IMO. People are getting deals just because they have "the look" or they're friends with or related to someone famous. Talent is almost never a factor in this. If this is the way that people are getting signed I'll take a contest winner any day! Fantasia, Kelly, Ruben and the whole American Idol gang don't really send chills down my spine with their voices either. I respect them because it's just so REFRESHING to see someone get a record contract based on vocal talent! | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
Hey Rodmann, I didn't think you sounded harsh - we're just bantering here...I see what you are saying though.... I am not in the music biz directly but I see the same thing happen in TV world.. You do have to crawl before you walk....I think talent wins a contest - but there's so much more that comes into play, like with anything really.. When these folks win a contest, I agree there are talents out there and a small handful make it and have staying power...there's so much to learn to stay afloat with your career and although a "contest" can get your foot in and maybe get you seen or signed, there's much more to maintaining a career....There's "show" and "biz" and a lot of the time these contests are "show" they are entertainment and the perosn who won knows very little or nothing about what they got into, ....People like Bobby or Ralph would do great producing someone who was a pure talent...(contest or not) but if that person does not have the right back bone for this business, their talent can't keep them going, there's a skill and a certian type of person that makes it.. I worked on Star Seach for a few years, so much talent there - but only a few have careers now... | ||
Bob Olhsson (bob_olhsson) 1-Arriviste Username: bob_olhsson Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.247.222.83 |
Gladys Knight was an Original Amateur Hour winner and she is arguably one of the most skilled, talented singers anybody I know has ever encountered. I also wouldn't assume those kids haven't paid any dues and I certainly wouldn't assume they won't be paying plenty of them in the future. Forty years ago, talented youngsters could actually earn a living performing. Today they can't. The "reality" shows clearly demonstrate that Madison Avenue doesn't know squat about what the public likes. Hopefully they are just the beginning of a move away from flash and back to real flesh and blood singing. | ||
johneflat (johneflat) 4-Laureate Username: johneflat Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.139 |
....We're also living in the age of the "disposable" artist, so I just these kids have someone to tell them this..... | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 37 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
Children's contest and young adult contest are very different....Gladys paid her dues before she made it big, the contest she won didn't make her a star.....it set her on her way and she had good family suppport....she started young and therefore was groomed along the way (paying dues) When Gladys made it big she had paid plenty of dues, and was in many compititions by then, others like Tammi Terrell did many talent contests too...These competitiions now are making it known that most of these singers are ametuers who never pursued anything before.... Instant fame /record deal is what I thought we were talking about..... Got to love Wiliiam Hung | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 828 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.47.183 |
If anyone here has the opportunity to buy Simon Cowell's book called" I dont mean to be rude but...... pick it up for some great insights to what we are discussing here. | ||
Rodmann (rodmann) 5-Doyen Username: rodmann Post Number: 303 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.221.46.59 |
Ok Vickie. I think that we're actually agreeing with each other. Once upon a time in the music biz the record labels were signing seasoned performers who had been in the music biz for a long time. Of course these proven talents had more performing skills and knew more than a mere amateur. The point I am making is that today almost everyone getting signed is an amateur! Amateurs are hitting the big time and getting rich without ever learning how to properly sing and perform. Look at Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake, two of the most lackluster but successful singers in the biz. They're even more pathetic when you consider the fact that they've been "performing" since they were small children. Why haven't they learned how to sing in all those years? I agree that a lot of these contest winners do have a lot to learn about the biz and becoming better performers. I'm just saying that I respect these contest winners because at least they've proven that they do have the raw skills to become talented performers one day. Ralph, will you be kind enough to explain to us what a "pull" session is? | ||
NY-DELL (dell) 3-Pundit Username: dell Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 38.117.188.10 |
OK, I started this thing then sat back and watched the fireworks....Yes , as someome posted this is actually the age of the disposable artist...the 20 year artist is gone career in this business will never last that long anymore. The hardest thing that most of these contest winners have ever gone thru is the waiting in line for their audition on these shows sleeping on the sidewalks and in the pouring rain...Now it's not so much that I don't respect them it's more that I respect a "Fighter" more, as Eli said you gotta crawl first | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 38 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
NY - Dell some crawl from contest to contest - LOL | ||
Chi Drummer (chidrummer) 3-Pundit Username: chidrummer Post Number: 38 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 24.14.41.10 |
Dear Ms. Vickie, I don't suppose you can tell us what happened to the original Star Search winner, Sam Harris. This guy had pipes and was fairly good looking. Motown signed him, gave him crap for songs and then he just disappeared. Can you lend any insight into what happened? | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 834 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.20.145 |
You said it..they gave him crap for songs. Also, for me he was 'over the top' as a singer and he tried TOO hard to prove himself. | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
I have no idea what happened to him.... I did hear that he was doing jingles but I don't know if that's true....It seems I heard he was in NY too doing shows there ( this was a long while ago)...I didn't know him. I often wondered what happend to him....If he was still at it ... I agree with Bobby though, I think he may have tried too hard and he just ended up one of the flavors of the week... It's like after you win The Miss America contest, what do you do??? You get endorsments and a few gigs - but then it ends... | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 838 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.20.145 |
EXACTLY!! | ||
Tony Russi (tony_russi) 5-Doyen Username: tony_russi Post Number: 183 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.210.0.107 |
I know what you mean Eli.There seems to be quite a few out there that "oversing"..I guess to compensate for bad material. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 840 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.20.145 |
Even Johnny Ray over sang but he had great material (for his era) and he had his "schtick", the crying thing, which sold him at the time.. | ||
NY-DELL (dell) 3-Pundit Username: dell Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 38.117.188.10 |
Does anyone give any of the current crop a chance to sustain a good career....I think Clay just may do it | ||
zebop (zebop) 4-Laureate Username: zebop Post Number: 81 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.139 |
I think Clay could do and has done well. Both Ruben Studdard and Kelly Clarkson haven't been recorded all that well. For all of his impressive singing on AI, Studdard is a derivative singer. Clarkson seems to like rock n' roll--but I think she'd do better doing straight r&b or funk or else she'll get boxed in like Pink. Fantasia's a big question mark. I'm not exactly happy with the prospect of her being produced by either Missy Elliot or Macy Gray. Kimbereley Locke and Tamara Gray aren't all that exciting either... (Message edited by zebop on July 26, 2004) | ||
NY-DELL (dell) 3-Pundit Username: dell Post Number: 48 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 38.117.188.10 |
Zebop: I'm not feeling Missy or Macy either for Fantasia.....But I am expecting Good things from "loser" La Toya London | ||
zebop (zebop) 4-Laureate Username: zebop Post Number: 82 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.139 |
NY-Dell, I think La Toya will be fine--too bad she got aced out of the competition for Jasmine Trias. I mean really Fantasia's an immensely talented girl--both Missy and Macy are a step down. I never really got the hype over Missy in the first place... |
