Soulful DetroitArchives - July 2004 � When Did Background Singers Get Shoved So Far In The Back? Previous Next

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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 284
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:22 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recently saw some old 70's footage of both Natalie Cole and Aretha Franklin and I couldn't believe how far up front their backup singers were. The more I thought about it I remember Tina Turner, Dionne Warwick, Ray Charles and several other artists of the 60's and 70's had excellent backup singers that provided great harmonies and were very visible.

What happened to the background singers? Ashanti, Britney Spears and Musiq wouldn't be so hard to take if they had some background singers like David Lasley, Peggi Blu, Tawatha Agee, Jocelyn Brown, Cissy Houston and The Sweet Inspirations, etc to provide the harmonies! All we get now is a few out of tune amateurs calling themselves backup singers. Every now and then I see Paulette McWilliams or someone that can actually sing performing behind an artist but their mics are turned down so low that you can barely hear them.

Bring back the backup singers and turn up their mics so we can actually hear them!
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
5-Doyen
Username: luke

Post Number: 401
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.198.48.201
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:35 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ask Mary and Cindy!
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Shawn1 (shawn1b)
4-Laureate
Username: shawn1b

Post Number: 124
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.30.14.44
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:36 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most of the people you mentioned I never really thought of as background singers since they Cissy,Jocelyn,Tawatha since they sounded just as good as the people they backed sometimes even better .Dionne started as a background singer .But ya know I really haven't heard any backgrounds that really stand out these days,just good enough to say they sound good but nothing that stands out as GREAT .Shawn
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 285
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:50 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) LMAO @ Jimmy Mack! Whew!

I totally agree Shawn. Who is the top background vocalist in music today anyway?
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.67.194.76
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:57 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's just me -- Cindy Mizelle's biggest fan. She's on most of the music productions on network TV (Grammy's, Divas Live, Motown 45) with the Ricky Minor Band. And she tours with many of the top acts (Whitney, Steely Dan, Luther, DMB, etc), along with super talents like Tawatha Agee, Lisa Fischer, Brenda White-King, to name a few.

Also, Pat Lacy has quite a reputation as a top BG vocalist and is now the vocal coach for American Idol.

Any of these BG vocalists could out-sing most anybody on the charts today. We've discussed before and heartily agreed to that!
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 286
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:13 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Linda. You know I've been hearing Cindy's name mentioned so many times through the years but I've never actually had the privilege of hearing her voice (at least on lead vocals). I'll definitely be on the lookout for something from her.

Linda, I totally agree about these background singers we've mentioned singing circles around today's top "talent"! Maybe that's why they keep them so far in the back with their mics turned down so low? They don't want to get blown off the stage! LOL.

It was so odd looking at that old footage of Natalie Cole singing 'This Will Be' with her two background vocalists were right on each side of her. Aretha Franklin, Luther Vandross and Chaka Khan are a few other artists that always feature very prominent background vocalists. I guess the really talented singers like them can take the heat!
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
5-Doyen
Username: luke

Post Number: 402
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.198.48.201
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:20 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It always bugs me that as the divas age the background singers get younger (they think it will rub off??)and the older background singers get bushed back even further!!Not Fair!!--ps it was so great to see Louvain Demps on PBS specials!!
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 287
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:33 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So true Jimmy! Preach on!

You have to give Luther Vandross his credit. Being a former top background vocalist he always had excellent taste in BG singers for himself. Ava Cherry, Tawatha Agee, Cissy Houston, Paulette McWilliams, Lisa Fischer, Darlene Love, Merry Clayton, David Lasley, The Sweets and even Cheryl Lynn have did session work for him. I think his regular backup group before his stroke might have been Cindy Mizelle, Lisa Fischer and Tawatha Agee. He never turned his back on all of these excellent vocalists.

James Taylor and Bette Midler are another two artists that have held onto the same background group of vocalists for years. (Ula Hedwig, David Lasley, etc).
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 99
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.67.194.76
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:50 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Luther always had the best vocalists working with him. I've heard that's from his days doing session and jingle work. Once he "made it" he never forgot the people he worked with.

I had the chance to meet him in 1990 because I was sitting in the front row with a lapful of CDs and LPs of his vocalists. He came over and asked what I had and brought me up on stage and introduced each singer and held up their product. After the show, he sent somebody to bring me backstage where we talked about our favorite vocalists, etc. It was an evening to remember!

Rodman, Cindy's 1994 solo CD is readily available on Ebay and GEMM.com. Well worth the it, you won't be sorry.
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Gil (gil)
2-Debutant
Username: gil

Post Number: 30
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 67.33.162.57
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 1:40 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fonzi Thornton and BJ Nelson also make the list of legendary session vocalists. I think they have both worked with Luther.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 755
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.22.19
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 8:43 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the recent Songwriter'sHOF awards show, the BG singers were Ava Cherry, Cindy Mizelle and Fonzi Thornton.
BTW..I produced an album on Ava Cherry in 1979 caled "Ripe" on Curtom/RSO.

She was loads of fun to work with.
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Nosey (nosey)
4-Laureate
Username: nosey

Post Number: 160
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.153.113.238
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 8:59 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda Di: Is Tawatha the daughter of Evelyn Turrentine-Agee out of Detroit? She sings with a powerful gospel quartet called Evelyn Turrentine-Agee and the Warriors. Just curious and Nosey.
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dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike

Post Number: 200
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.61
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 9:23 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was listening to some of Dionne's Scepter records and her sister Dee Dee is prominent on quite a few of them, particularly on "Don't Make Me Over", "I Smiled Yesterday", "Make The Music Play", "Reach Out For Me" and "Walk On By" to name a few.

In Chicago during the seventies, the prominent background vocalists were people like Kitty Heywood, Theresa Davis, Joni Berlmon, Rhonda Grayson, Sue Conway, Ada Dyer, Pat Henley, Keithen Carter, Ricky Linton, Billy Durham and Connee Draper.
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
5-Doyen
Username: luke

Post Number: 404
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.198.48.201
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 9:55 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent per Luther holding up their product. BAckground-or call and response singers -are so important and help to make the record--think of AInt No Mt High Enough--which was on Nip/Tuck last night during nose surgery!, Aint No Way, Suspicous Minds--wasnt Cissy on Susipicious Minds? and is it definite that Telma Hopkins sang Shut Your Mouth on Shaft?
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Shawn1 (shawn1b)
4-Laureate
Username: shawn1b

Post Number: 125
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.30.14.44
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:24 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I am NO ELVIS fan but one song I do like him is Suspicious Minds cause of Cissy and I don't think Ain't No Way would be what it was without Cissy background vocals,to me Cissy is probably the ultimate backgroud vocalist of the Soul Age her song with Dionne,Aretha and other are pure CLASSICS.Shawn ps Rodman I don't think their are any stand out Backgrond vocalist of today ................
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 756
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.43.205
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:53 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The high voice on Aint no way was Carolyn Franklin.
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dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike

Post Number: 202
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.61
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 11:12 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobby, the high parts on "Ain't No Way" were sung by Cissy Houston.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 757
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.43.205
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 11:31 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Really??
OK.

I do know that CF wrote the song.
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dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike

Post Number: 203
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.61
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:30 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Carolyn was a very good songwriter. I also liked "Save Me" and "Angel"
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.67.194.76
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:40 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nosey - I don't know much about Tawatha Agee so I can't answer that question, but I'm sure somebody else here can.

Bobby - I've had Ava's LPs since they were released. Great stuff. Her style is more rock than I personally like, but she's got mad talent. I hung with her a few times and she is a blast!

DVDMike -- didn't Connie Draper tour with Patti for a while? I believe she's the backing vocalist who hit the high note when Patti did "Ain't No Way" in her show.

I saw Patti in Buffalo in the early 90s. Because Jean Carne was appearing the next evening, I stayed overnight to catch her show. Patti's band had a few days off and apparently had stayed overnight and some of them were in the club where Jean was performing (the Tralf). Jean sang "Ain't No Way" and when the moment came for that note, Patti's singer (Connie Draper??) hit it from the back of the room and Jean's eyes almost popped. She had no idea who or where it came from! It was really cute.
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dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike

Post Number: 205
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.61
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:49 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that might have been Connie Harvey from Philly, but I'm not 100% certain. Connee Draper used to tour with Jerry Butler, but I haven't talked to her since she left Chicago several years ago.
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Reese (reese)
4-Laureate
Username: reese

Post Number: 106
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.15.169.219
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 1:04 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ON Patti's LIVE IN NEW YORK dvd, Connie Draper does the high note in AIN'T NO WAY.
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 288
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 4:27 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda, that's so cool. Who were Luther's background singers at the time you met him in 1990. Was it Lisa, Cindy and Tawatha? I love Tawatha's solo album and her work with Mtume. The only thing I've heard by Lisa is her excellent hit single 'How Can I Ease The Pain'. I'll definitely be picking up Cindy's solo album just to see what all the fuss in the industry is about! LOL.

Eli! I can't believe this. You produced Ava Cherry's "Ripe" album? I've been wanting to get my hands on that LP for some time now with no luck! I always assumed that it was produced by Curtis Mayfield since it was released on The Curtom label. So you're the Big Bad Wolf that allmusic.com says refused to let Ava record any of the Rock songs that she had written with David Bowie? LOL. Seriously, can you tell us more about Ava and the "Ripe" project? What do you think about Ava vocally? Did you two record any ballads and midtempos or was it a complete disco/dance album? I've only heard one song off the album. I think it was called 'You Never Loved Me" or something like that.

DvdMike, you're right about Dee Dee's vocals being very prominent on Dionne's records. You can also hear her featured on most of the Scepter/Wand material released during the 60's. She's almost singing a duet with Maxine Brown on 'Oh No Not My Baby'. Her beautiful voice also sticks out like a sore thumb on Dionne's live album with Isaac Hayes. There's something about the voices of those Drinkards (Dionne & Dee Dee Warwick, Cissy Houston) and the women they sang with Judy Clay and Sylvia Shemwell that sticks out! All of them are family and they each had very distinctive voices. It's amazing.

But does anyone else notice that today's singers young and old have the background singers shoved all the way in the back with their mics turned way down low, dressed up in black and as plain as possible? In the 60's and 70's it seemed as there was a camaraderie between the star, the backup singers and the musicians. Today it's all about the so called "artist" and no one else! You would NEVER see one of today's solo artists feature his or her backup singers right next to them on stage with the mics turned up like Natalie Cole, Aretha Franklin, Sylvester etc did. I wouldn't mind it if these new artists had the vocal pipes to back up such arrogance but they don't!
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 165.170.128.66
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 4:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann, I may have an extra "Ripe" LP. Will let you know when I get home. If so, it's yours.
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 290
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 4:40 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Thank you so much Linda! I've had such bad luck with internet record stores lately. They tell you things are in such good condition but when you get it in the mail it's another story! I recently got burned on a Hodges, James & Smith LP I ordered.

Just let me know if you have it and how much you'll charge me. You can keep me posted at rodmann2981@insightbb.com. :-)
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 102
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 165.170.128.66
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 4:45 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I do have it, there's no charge.

(Message edited by linda di fsg on July 21, 2004)
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 291
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 5:14 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're too sweet Linda! If you email me I'll give you a list of several LP's that I have. I've got about 600 Classic Soul LP's. I might have something you're interested in. Maybe we can trade?
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 758
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.45.33
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 5:48 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodman,

I was introduced to Ava in Chicago by Curtis Mayfield and his partner Marv Stuart back in '78 and we immediately hit it off.
She is a blast to hand with and I loved her universal appeal.

We had many talks of her association with Bowie.

I didnt disuade her from doing "rock" its just that she was into doing some r&b at the time and so was Curtom.

She flew to Philly (NJ actually) and stayed at my home and we basicaly hung out and tok our time with picking songs.
There were also several songs on the lp that she previously recorded which I updated.

Funny story:

You know how Ava looked and dressed at the time, well, one bright sunny day in Philly while cruising in my (at the time)yellow convertible Mercedes, I made an "illegal turn"
The cops stopped us and discovered that I had several unpaid tickets.

I told him that I would go to the precinct right then and pay the fine.

So, Ava dressed in bright yellow hot pants and witha fire engine red "twisties" dread hair do and the personality of life, proceded to go back to the holding cell area while I paid my debt.
needless to say there were whistles and shouts from everywhere while Ava "put on the charm"

I was pleasantly surprised when several years later she became one of Luther's mainstays!!

Ava..Gotta love her!!!
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
5-Doyen
Username: luke

Post Number: 407
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.198.48.201
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 6:39 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So no one knows if Telma sang Shut Your Mouth on Shaft?
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 292
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 7:08 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMAO! That's hilarious Eli. I don't know what she was thinking with the orange hair-do but judging from the few pictures I've seen she was a knockout! And she still looks damn good today. Just gorgeous. The men in the holding cells must've gotten quite a treat that day! :-)

Jimmy, If you look up Telma Hopkins' bio on allmusic.com I think they list her as having said the famous "Shut Yo Mouth" on Isaac Hayes' 'Shaft'.
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
5-Doyen
Username: luke

Post Number: 408
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.198.48.201
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 7:10 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks Rod.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 760
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.45.33
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 7:25 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a pic taken at my late wife Gigi's surprise birthday party in 1979.
In front with butt out is Keith Barrow(RIP), and L_R are:Gigi (RIP) Ava Cherry and Carla Benson, of the Sweeties

keith

(Message edited by phillysoulman on July 21, 2004)
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Shawn1 (shawn1b)
4-Laureate
Username: shawn1b

Post Number: 126
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.30.14.44
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 9:46 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reese on Patti's concert( When she did Ain't No Way)I wished she had left the hight notes out cause she couldn't touch Cissy's performance Matter of fact I wanted her to shut up .Shawn
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Songstress (songstress61)
2-Debutant
Username: songstress61

Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 68.101.247.165
Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 9:47 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann, well if the backup singers behind today's singers are as strong as say Tawatha, Lisa Fischer, Fonzi Thornton etc I would guess today's artists have their backup singers positioned behind them with mic's turned down real low so they won't get upstaged!

All of those backup's like those I just mentioned and those like Kevin Owens, Cindy Mizelle, Ullanda McCullough would sing circles around most of today's new "so called" artists.

I will say that I really like the tight sound of the background singers that sang behind D'Angelo on his live CD at the Jazz Cafe. They included Angie Stone and Karen Bernod. This group was was off the chain with their tight harmonies..
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1429
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 2:08 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that the background singers got shoved into the background with the advent of the Video Age. When style & image became more important than actual singing, the background singers really became BACKGROUND SINGERS. Back in the day, background singers accentuated the performance of the lead singer. These days, far too many "singers" talent comes through rack mount pitch correctors & copious amounts of punch-ins.

Besides, how do you think that these "stars" who can barely hold notes, much less modulate on key feel about having their background singers get more shine than them? Their egos couldn't take that. If they were truly interested in real longevity, they'd understand that strong backup singers are crucial.

Look at someone like Luther who gives his backup singers some of his spotlight & praises them to the high heavens. Remember Sylvester & Two Tons Of Fun. He had no problem featuring them & if anyone remembers his Live LP from 1979, those women simply destroyed You Are My Friend. AND HE WAS ESTATIC & PROUD OF THEM!!! Somehow, I think that todays disposable singers are too insecure to allow their backgroun singer to either steal the show, or, expose them for the non-singers that far too many of them are. Then again, when I think about it, these days many of the people that they employ as background singers aren't raising any hell themselves. It's like they put their cousin or buddy Jeffrey & friend Shaquana down. Usually, the backups are just as limited as they are. Ever hear some of these folks sing hooks these days??? I'll tell you, it's sure not a sweet inspiration to my ears.

Man, what a dropoff & when you consider the lack of technical proficiency & musical knowledge of many of todays producers, the future looks grim. How are the future singers going to learn how to sing true harmony & things as such. I bet that many of them wouldn't know a flatted fifth from a fifth of Hennessey.
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Gil (gil)
3-Pundit
Username: gil

Post Number: 31
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 67.33.162.57
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 5:45 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa has been with the Rolling Stones on each of their tours since 1989. She is always featured, especially when she does Merry Clayton's solos during "Gimme Shelter".
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 251
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 11:15 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Everyone!

I concur with everything that is being said about the background singers! Rodmann & Linda Di, I finally got my copy of Cindy Mizelle's cd, and she is an excellent vocalist. Linda, I had mixed Janice Dempsey (another great session singer) with Cindy Mizelle. Janice was the lead vocalist on Najee's "So Hard To Let Go", and Cindy recorded I Can't Let Go. At any rate, a lot of those sessions singers traveled in the same circles. I was looking at an old Melba Moore cassette last night called "Soul Exposed" and it featured Lisa Fischer, Janice Dempsey & Cindy Mizelle on background vocals.

One thing I can say when I buy an artist, I read the sleeve, and check out the background singers., then on a whim, i will go and buy thier product. Very seldom am I disappointed.

On the Luther tip, he also had Michelle Cobbs & Crystal Wilson (Shanice's Mom) on background vocals. Diva Gray, Alfa Anderson, Norma Jean Wright, Alex Brown & Lynn Davis are also great session singers.

I have always loved Tawatha's strong, distinctive voice. I have every Mtume recording & her solo lp.

We already know about the Drinkards & Sweets...they were a force to be reckoned with!

Handsome
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 104
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 165.170.128.66
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 1:13 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would guess that Lisa's tours with the Rolling Stones are quite lucrative, probably better than most solo artists' careers are! She also toured with Tina Turner's final tour. However, it's still nice to hear her record on her own. She's on "A Twist of Motown."

Has anybody heard of a CD coming out in the next week or two on Verve and featuring his background vocalists doing a tribute?
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 253
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 2:18 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda, who's background vocalists...Luther's? I haven't heard about that, but that's great if they are.

I also have A Twist of Motown & Lisa's "So Intense" cd. d. Linda Di, have you heard Lisa Fischer & Kevin Owens (another Luther background vocalist) singing on Kirk Whalum's "Give Me Your Love"?

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 293
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 4:43 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) THANK YOU for the great image Eli! Man, those seem like really good times back then. And I wasn't even alive yet! I missed all the fun! Wasn't Keith Barrow a recording artist?

Songstress and Juice you two are telling it like it is as usual! EVERY LAST WORD! And I'm so glad that you guys brought up three of the best, Ullanda and Two Tons O' Fun (Martha Wash and Izora Rhodes). Ullanda has a very sweet voice that was perfect for background singing. I've heard two of her albums and I like several songs. Martha and Izora shouldn't be singing behind ANYBODY! Whew! It's tragic that those girls weren't more famous than they were. But I'm thankful for the wonderful recordings that they gave us with Sylvester. And let's not forget another one of Sly's favorites, Jeanie Tracy. It's a damn shame that these people aren't working in R&B anymore!

Linda, I remember reading a few years back about Lisa Fischer singing with The Stones. Nothing against Lisa but I wonder why they didn't hire Merry Clayton? I'm thinking that Merry didn't want to tour? Her husband of many years, sax player Curtis Amy passed away a few years ago. Maybe she wanted to be with him?

Handsome, I had no idea that Shanice Wilson's mom was a singer. I wonder what happened to Shanice. Since the industry is so screwed up right now that she (and anyone else that can actually sing) can't get a record deal she should be making some of that session vocalist money!

Does anyone else remember back in the 90's when Patti LaBelle and Lisa Fischer tied for best "R&B Vocal Performance By A Female" at the Grammy's? The look on Patti's face! LOL.
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 105
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.67.194.76
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 5:33 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, I clearly remember the Grammy's in 91 (92?) when both shared that award. I'm a huge Patti fan, and I certainly appreciate Lisa's talent. Can't take nothing away from her. But something weird happened there. Patti recovered quickly though after "that look." Then I guess she realized it was better to share than not receive at all? Still a very strange thing to happen.

(Message edited by linda di fsg on July 22, 2004)

(Message edited by linda di fsg on July 22, 2004)
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 254
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 5:44 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember that very well, too Linda & Rod. Patti did have this look on her face and almost went back to her seat because she thought it was a mistake.

Rod, as far as Shanice's mom goes, Crystal, Shanice & Crystal's sister Penni are singing a song on "Motown Comes Home". Speaking of which what happened to Trey Harris, who recorded �Just When you Think It�s Over�. Not being funny is Trey a male or female? I couldn�t tell from the singing voice, and nowadays you can�t tell by names.

Handsome
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Reese (reese)
4-Laureate
Username: reese

Post Number: 110
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.15.169.219
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 5:49 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember Patti and Lisa at the Grammys as well. Not to slight Lisa, but I never understood how her single HOW CAN I EASE THE PAIN tied with the eleven songs that made up Patti's album BURNIN'.

That said, it was a good moment. If only to see Patti finally recognized, and to see how graceful both women were.
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Gary (gary)
4-Laureate
Username: gary

Post Number: 88
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 172.134.170.14
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 5:50 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice...thanks for mentioning Martha Wash and Izora Rhodes. That live cut of "You Are My Friend" is one of my all time favorites, those girls can BLOW.

You said it right, Rodmann; they shouldn't be anybody's backup singers. They don't get anywhere near the respect and recognition they deserve.

Bobby...excellent pix, as usual.
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 255
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 6:13 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary, you are right!

I have that song on my best of Sylvester cd, not taking away from Patti (God knows I love her too), they do a great cover! I remember Jeannie Tracy when she was on Star Search singing Dionne Warwick's, "I'll Never Love This Way Again"..she blew that song out of the water.

You guys should hear Two Tons sing "Gone Away"!

Handsome
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 771
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.51.238
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 10:37 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How could I forget Thelma Hopkins and Joyce Vincent-Wilson.
They did most of the HDH and Ric Tic /Golden World stuff.

They were also the mainstay on all the Flaming Ember records.
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Gil (gil)
3-Pundit
Username: gil

Post Number: 33
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 67.33.162.57
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 1:09 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good one, Eli!!

I had a big crush on Joyce as a kid (around the same time as Cindy Birdsong and Tamara Dobson...I guess I'm a two-timer!). She exuded class and charm.

It's so funny now that most people today don't know that Telma Hopkins was such a big star in the music industry. They just know her from her constant stream of television shows over the last 25 years...she definitely is prolific!
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 256
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:54 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't Pamela Vincent, Joyce's sister? At one time she did back-up for Aretha in the 70's. I still have the Jet with a picture of Aretha (very svelte at the time)with Pam, Brenda &I forget the tall light-skinned lady name, but she sings alto & has been with Aretha a long time.

Handsome
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Gil (gil)
3-Pundit
Username: gil

Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 67.33.166.196
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:28 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, they are sisters. They occasionally perform together
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Gil (gil)
3-Pundit
Username: gil

Post Number: 36
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 67.33.166.196
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:30 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 263
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:37 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Gil!

Who's older?

Handsome
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 417
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.198.48.201
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 6:32 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has Vesta been a background singer? What happened to Clydie King?
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
5-Doyen
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 337
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.79.164.57
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 7:21 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey....Wait a minute, is this Pam Vincent from Detroit ??? It looks like her, but I'm not 100% sure...
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Gil (gil)
3-Pundit
Username: gil

Post Number: 38
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 192.44.136.113
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 9:27 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, it's Detroit's Pam Vincent. Was going to post another pic, but having difficulty doing it from work.

I'm not sure which one is the oldest (between Pam and Joyce).
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 296
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 9:41 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda, Handsome & Reese it was so funny when Patti and Lisa tied for that Grammy. I love Miss Patti to death but she looked PISSED when they first called that tie! LOL. Linda, you hit the nail on it's head, Patti got her act together after a minute or so. A tie is much better than a lose!

Reese, at the time I didn't get how Lisa was able to tie with Patti on the strength of one performance either. Maybe it was because the category was "Best R&B Vocal PERFORMANCE By A Female"? That makes sense because the average music fan only knows Lisa for that one vocal performance on 'How Can I Ease The Pain'.

Gary, it's a shame that singers like Martha Wash, Izora Rhodes, Loleatta Holloway, Jeanie Tracy, Jocelyn Brown and several others no longer have anything to do with R&B. It seems as if the Black music industry kicks the talent around but they hold onto the clowns! LOL. It's sad. I gotta laugh to keep from cryin'!

Great pics Gil. Wasn't Joyce a member of Tony Orlando's Dawn along with Telma Hopkins? Which one is Joyce in these pictures?

Jimmy, I remember seeing Vesta being interviewed on BET several years ago and she was saying that she backed up Chaka Khan for a period. I have no idea what her or Clydie King are up to nowadays. I do know that Clydie sang backup on Merry Clayton's 1994 Gospel disc "Miracles".

Does anyone know who the background singers were on Z.Z. Hill's 1977 hit 'Love Is So Good When You're Stealing It'? That's a wonderful song by Mr. Hill and the background singers have such a great sound! I've only had the single for years so I don't have any info about the musicians. I do know that the name of the album it's on is "Let's Make A Deal".
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 106
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.67.194.76
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 9:47 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vesta was scheduled to perform here last weekend, with Impromp2. But she cancelled, don't know why. Cherelle filled in for her. I had just left so I'm not sure how it went.
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Gil (gil)
3-Pundit
Username: gil

Post Number: 40
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 192.44.136.113
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 9:48 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann,

Joyce is on the right in both pics. And yes, she was in Dawn with Telma Hopkins. I wonder if they keep in touch?
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 298
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 12:50 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Gil. It's odd because Joyce looks a lot like Telma Hopkins in those pics! LOL.
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Don (don)
5-Doyen
Username: don

Post Number: 402
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.75.172.131
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 11:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the days of hangups, egos, divaness, fame & admiration are/we're long gone and good ridness. Some singers love their bkgrd singers with them so, that they'd want to hear themselfs or to harmonize with them. Technically it's just as a producer or a production cordinator would have them do.
Don
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 274
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 1:16 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda Di, that jazz tribute cd to Luther Vandross you were talking about is scheduled to be in record stores today!

Handsome
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 112
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 165.170.128.65
Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 4:32 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Handsome. I did hear though that Luther's vocalists aren't featured as much as I originally heard they were. But it still sounds nice. I heard bits of it on Jazz Trax over the weekend.
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 281
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.13
Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 5:26 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Lindi Di.

I listened to some tracks as well. I'm going to buy it. Thanks for hipping me up to it, in the 1st place.

Handsome
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
5-Doyen
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 350
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.250.175.171
Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 10:07 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pam Vincent was a Back Up singer when we were in High School~~~WOW
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1wicked (1wicked)
5-Doyen
Username: 1wicked

Post Number: 196
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.126.64.72
Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 12:48 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vesta did background for Chaka & others before making her solo move. As a solo act, she wowed 'em and developed legions of fans..but it wasn't enough to keep her label deal and she was dropped (because she wasn't a video hottie). Seeking other changes...she dropped her boyfriend who *supposedly* had her blackballed via his major league entertainment ties. Though she lost the weight (and looks AMAZING), no label deals were dumped on her desk, and (at last report) was hosting a morning drive show on a Radio One station in the DC area. (And trust...the lady is as funny as she is vocally talented.)
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 283
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 1:55 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have this tape of Vesta singing & giving tribute to La Vern Baker & her songs from some years ago (other tributes were on this program as well). She was awesome! And 1wicked, I must concur, Vesta is a cut up!

Handsome
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Rick (bassik4)
1-Arriviste
Username: bassik4

Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 68.163.34.180
Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 10:27 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All,
I agree with SDF.Vesta was definately the real deal. What ever happened to Ulanda McCullough? She broke out a while back with Ashford and Simpson producing her first album.
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Shawn1 (shawn1b)
4-Laureate
Username: shawn1b

Post Number: 130
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.30.14.44
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 12:40 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone I forgot Izora Armstead and Martha Wash they gave some fabulous performances behind Sylvester.Shawn ps LOVE ME SO TWO TONS OF FUN !
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1511
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 12:49 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wicked, you ain't lying there!! Vesta is one bad girl!!! Back in '86, I fell in love with her first LP. Don't Blow A Good Thing, Get Out Of My Life, Once Bitten, Twice Shy, You Make Me Want To Love Again, It's You & My Heart Is Yours were excellent songs.

Her 1988 LP, Vesta 4 U Had the splendid ballads Sweet Sweet Love, Congratulations & Running Into Memories & the funky 4 U.

Her 1991 LP, Special Had the ballads: Special, Person To Person, I Don't Wanna Cry Anymore & I Promise Love & the funky TLC, Do Ya & Compassion.

Hey Rick, thanks for mentioning Ullanda. Man, you just took me back to 1979, when I used to put her Around & Around on nearly every slow tape that I made. Man was that a great song; the arrangement, her lead vocal & the harmonies were exquisite. Then there was her 1981 blast, Bad Company. They used to love that at the rink that I played at. I too wonder what she's been up to?

The fact that these two talented ladies (especially Vesta) can't get a deal is further proof of my thesis, "Music Theory According To Juice". Basically, the summation of my thesis boils down to this.......Todays' music industry is an ass!!!

I'm so tired of seeing superior talent constantly pushed aside due to "Marketing". I'm not trying to date these ladies & their body type should have nothing to do with assessing their talent. If this was Russia, no one would care about Vestas', Marthas' or anyone elses size.

If this was The Golden Age Of Radio, no one would care what they looked like either. Technology when misused is dangerous. The age of video Has hurt many a career & this just absolutely ludicrous. I can't play a poster of any of these models/pseudo-singers (remember Vanity & Appolonia??? Looked real good, sang REAL BAD!!!). Give me the substance over the flash any day!! Looks & weight shouldn't matter when it comes to singing.
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Charise (mistrivia1)
5-Doyen
Username: mistrivia1

Post Number: 270
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 198.81.26.46
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 12:55 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice, check your email!!!
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Heikki (heikki)
4-Laureate
Username: heikki

Post Number: 81
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 62.248.150.35
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 2:17 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Juicefree20,

today in Russia they would. These days they have a similar scene over there (unfortunately).

Best regards
Heikki
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1520
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 2:54 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Heikki

Damn, I gues that Westernization has spread everywhere!!! Sad, isn't it?
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 308
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 9:33 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're Tellin' It Like It Is once again Juice! I totally agree!

Rick, I found an excellent article all about Ullanda and her struggle with a fashion and jewelry addiction. She's remarried since this article was written, is now going by the name of Ullanda Innocent-Palmer and has been singing Christian Music for years. Here's the link:

http://www.nisbett.com/library /all_that_glitters.htm

I've heard Ullanda's last two albums (she recorded three) and there are some good songs on them. My favorites are 'You're Gonna Wanna Come Back', 'Rock Me', 'I'll Just Die' and 'Men Kiss And Tell'.

Ullanda has a very sweet and pleasant voice that's great for background harmonies and jingles but I just don't think she's an outstanding lead vocalist. Don't get me wrong, she's a good singer but there's nothing distinctive about her vocals IMO. Sarah Dash and Mary Wilson (although I love 'Red Hot' and 'Let's Pick Up The Pieces') are two others that have pleasant voices but their singing lacks intensity when they're on lead. It's almost as if some singers are restrained in the background for so long that they can't quite cut loose when they're the lead vocalist.

Does anyone else agree that some of the great session vocalists were much better background singers than lead vocalists?
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 286
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:50 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you Rod!

Here are some more great session singers...

Josie James
Yvonne Lewis
Brenda White-King
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 287
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:55 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod, I re-read your question and have to
re-evaluate my answer...Yes & No.

Tawatha, Cissy Houston, Lisa Fischer, Cindy Mizelle & Audrey Wheeler are great session & lead singers.

It depends on who it is. Some cut loose & some don't, but it is not always because they were regulated to the background. To me. Some are just innate lead singers & some are not. Some can do both.

Handsome
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 885
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.22.60
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 2:47 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a tidbit that I posted some time ago, but for the benefit of the "newbies" i will post it again.

As you all must know by now, there are some Philly groups whom are just not cut out to sing background vocals in the studio or anywhere else for that matter.

One day back in the last century, I had some time booked to mix a particular album which I was producing on a rather well known Philly clasic soul act.

I sat down at the desk, took a sip of my morning coffee and then proceeded to throw up the faders to have a listen.

To my horror, the background vocals which I meticulously recorded with the "pro studio singers" were ERASED and replaced with the REAL members of this particular act!!

It sounded like kaka-doo doo times ten and then some.

Somehow, the members of this group persuaded the studio powers that were to let them in the studio to work on a song that one of the group members had been working on and used that as an excuse to pull out my tape reels and proceed to do their thing.

Needles to say, this infuriated the powers that were at the production company because now I had to re-hire the "pro singers" once again and replace the kaka doo doo vocals and then proceed to mix the stuff.!@#$%^&*()_
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 886
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.22.60
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 2:53 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heres another quick tidbit.

In 1979 at the height of the disco era, I had a hit song that I produced called This Time baby by Jackie Moore.

That June we were booked to do the Disco Ball at the Rosseland Ballroom in Nyc.

We had the band booked but we needed to hire some backing singers.

Some close associates of mine managed some acts, one of them being a 16 year old Whitney Houston, so they sent her and Brenda White (King) and they tore it up!!

A year later I started Brenda, Tawatha, Gwen Guthrie and Norma Jean as my NYC backing vocal crew.
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 290
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 3:00 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Mr. Eli!

Great Tid bits. They all seem great to work with!
I love me some Gwen Guthrie too!

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 291
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 3:02 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, and that other background singer for Aretha I was talking about, name is Margaret Branch (the tall light-skinned lady on the Jet cover with Pamela Vincent)

Handsome
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 888
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.22.60
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 3:32 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SDF,
Sadly, Gwen G passed on sometime in the mid nineties.
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 293
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 5:05 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eli, I knew that.

Thanks.

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 310
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.221.46.59
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 5:28 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Handsome, I didn't say that ALL session vocalists couldn't sing lead, I just said that SOME were better off in the background. I've already listed several of my favorites in my previous posts. Some of them were so good that they shouldn't have been singing behind anyone.

I don't think that Margaret Branch is tall and light-skinned. In the pictures I've seen she was dark and short. She's Aretha's cousin and she sang backup for her for many years. Aretha talks a little bit in her book about having to fire Margaret for being unprofessional. I've always wondered if Margaret ever recorded solo?

Eli, I remember you saying that you used Tawatha on many of your sessions. What can you tell us about her? I've been a fan of hers since her days with Mtume. Her voice has a sharp and piercing quality to it like Cissy Houston and Dee Dee Sharp. I'll never understand why she didn't record a follow-up to her excellent 1987 solo album "Welcome To My Dream"? :-(
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 895
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.22.60
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 7:16 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tawatha is a short(ish), cute light skinned woman with a sweet yet powerful soprano voice.

You can really hear her good on Whatcha gonna do with my lovin, by Stephanie Mills and on my Jackie Moore album, With your love, on Columbia.

She is a consumate pro and wasusually the leader and contractor on the sessions she sang on.
My friend Mtume was kind enough to "loan" her and his girls to me.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1525
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 7:30 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's up all!!!

Brother Handsome, what's up duke??? Man, Audrey Wheeler was fabulous. I loved her vocals on the Unlimited Touch LPs. I also love her performance on the duet ballad, "Oh, How I Love You Girl" with James "D Train" Williams. Her solo LP from the late '80s wasn't quite bad either.

Rod: Thanks for the info about Ms McCollough. It's good to know more about her, as she has simply disappeared off the radar here in NYC. By the way, I am editing that little package we discussed. Cool Edit & Waves are simply magnificent!!!

Bobby: Needless to say, This Time baby was huge here in the clubs in '79. '79 was the last great year for Disco. One question, who thought of the percussion licks during the breaks on the 12"? I agree with you about Tawatha, I loved her work with Mtume & I loved her solo LP. I can't imagine that the voice that absolutely destroyed Did I Dream You, can't find a solo deal anywhere. I said it before, I'll say it again: THE MUSIC INDUSTRY IS AN ASS!!!!

I also miss Gwen Guthrie.....a lot. What a talented songwriter she was & I loved her LPs. My favorite solo songs of Gwens' is Passion Eyes, It Should've Been You, Padlock & Seventh Heaven & of course, Ain't Nothin' Goin' On But The Rent. Back arounde '86, that song absolutely aggravated me, as every unemployed woman was running around singing it. It was an anthem!!! When one of them told me that nothing was goin' on but the rent, I told them to get off their lazy a***s, turn off the soaps & get a damn job. That way, they could pay their OWN DAMN RENT!!!!

Gotta have a J.O.B. if you wanna be with Juicefree :-)

Gwen is missed!!!! RIP!!!

(Message edited by juicefree20 on July 29, 2004)
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 898
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.22.60
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 9:43 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Juice,
The percussion was overdubbed in NYC at Media sound by Jimmy Maelen.

I just let him go at it thuu the whole song and just picked the best parts and used them.

Of course, those were the days before sampling so we looped certain sections and flew them in where needed.
That was some feat to accomplish with a live track, where the tempo varied slightly in places!!

The mix was done by John Luongo at Media Sound in NYC with yours truly in the house as well.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1548
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:54 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobby,

That was a pretty good percussion feat. Imagine that, musicians actually had to PLAY an instrument. WOW!!!! You mean that you had no Pro Tools, No Korg M1, Korg Trinity, or Korg Triton to work with?? No Kurzweill 2500??? No Sp1200s, no Cubase??? Ye gods man, whatever were you thinking of????? You can't make good music mwithout those things, get off the stick ol' chum. How can you not be electronic???

Man, you can't fool me, I Know that you used a sampler for Love Won't Let Me Wait & Sideshow. Fess up man, fess up. I know that the technology wasn't even invented then, but still...I know that you had them. Real people can't play like that. After all, they don't today, do they??? Well, ok, Prince does & a few others do too. Ah, it's the Pro Tools....it's got to be the Pro Tools :-) :-) :-)
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
5-Doyen
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 362
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.79.93.196
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 11:03 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sometimes, I think when they had their Back~up singers along side of the Lead Singers, was so the voices could have the same level. Now with so much advanced technology, they could have the Back~Up singers in another room , and they can now sound as if they were still along side the Lead singer...or something like that (LOL).
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1552
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 11:24 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Medusa,

I also think that there's also a different connection that they made when in the same room. For example, Marvin & Diana recorded their parts seperately for that LP. And you know what, it sounds like it. There was no chemistry, no connection & none of the hoped for fireworks. It was a lifeless & rather sterile affair.

They may be able to get the same levels, however, they won't be able to capture that same level of excitement. There's no interplay & some of the best backing parts have been ad-libbed through the interplay of the singers. That possiblity is diminished somewhat through this impersonal way of recording.
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~medusa~ (~medusa)
5-Doyen
Username: ~medusa

Post Number: 363
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 68.79.165.164
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 8:14 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

most likely...
I can't see how anyone would record seperately, when singing (to me) is a form of art, it's a passion...a song like any other art, has to reach it's peak...you know, that very special part of it that gets the excitement going.
(To me) that means that you put yourself in it, you have to feel it, even if it means to free~style.
That;s one reason I don't like it when a person RE~records a song exactly like the original, it's boring.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 902
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.22.60
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 9:07 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pati Labelle and Michael Mc Donald recorded On My Own seperately, Mike in LA and patti in Philly.
endless Love by Lionel and Diane was also recorded seperately.
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 295
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:13 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann, the person I'm talking IS Margaret Branch, who sings alto. The person you're talking about is Brenda, who sings soprano and is dark & short, and Aretha's cousin. Take my word for it!

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 296
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:20 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heeey Juice!

Man I love Gwen Guthire! My favorite songs are:

Shoulda Been You
Love In Moderation
Just For You
Say It Isn't So
Passion Eyes
You Touched My Life
Ain't Nothing Goin' On But The Rent
They Long To Be (Close To You)-Particularly the opening intro & end
Padlock

Mr. Eli, you can also hear Tawatha's distinctive vocals on Phyllis Hyman's You know How To Love Me & Under Your Spell..but you knew that already:o)

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 297
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:30 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice, I remember when my eyes opened to Audrey Wheeler...when I heard her sing on Jeff Lorber's, "Step By Step". I didn't put it together until later that she was the vocalist in the group Unlimited Touch before that record, particularly on the song, "Searching To Find The One". I knew about her solo project and never bought it. I'm on the lookout for it now. She originally did, "Can You Stop The Rain", that Peabo Bryson covered later. To my understanding, She is now married to my boy, Will Downing.

Handsome
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1556
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 6:39 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's up Handsome!!!

I hope that you got to hear Oh How I Love You Girl, her duet with D-Train Williams. It's not a line for line duet. She comes in near the end, but it's a helluva song! I liked You Touched My Life, I still have a mix tape with that from '88. Pretty nice ballad there! I forgot to mention Outside In The Rain, Miss My Love, Peek-A-Boo & Rockin' Chair.

By the way, does anyone remember Siedah Garrett?? Couldn't she be considered a backup singer as well???
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1557
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 6:59 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobby,

Patti & Michael were magic, they gave a comsummate effort on that song. Even though it was recorded seperately, those two definitely know how to drench a song in emotion.

As for Diana & Lionel, in my opinion, that is simply the most boring, lugubrious, tedious, schlocky #1 hit of all time!!! I'm telling you, that song makes me contemplate hurling myself in front of an 18 wheel semi on a turnpike, at midnight....rush hour...the morning rush, anytime at all!!!! The mere thought of that song puts my passionate side in severe retrograde. As I write this, I am in severe agony just thinking of that song.

Bobby, I thought that we were cool. I thought that we were like Bosco & milk, like Laurel & Hardy, like Jheri & curl, like diaper rash & Desitin. Then you went & mentioned Endless Love...man....I'm wounded. That really hurt, man!!!

I'd rather listen to P-Diddys remixes of Billy Don't Be A Hero, I Am Puffy & Count Me In. I'd also rather hear Kanyes' remix of They're Coming To Take Me Away (Speeded up, of course). Finally, I'd rather hear versions of Sideshow & Love Won't Let Me Wait by The Lettermen, Morris Albert, The King Family, The Lennon Sisters, Mitch Miller, Perry Como AND The Singing Nun, than to ever hear Endless Love again in my entire life!!!!

I only wish that they had recorded the song seperately, as in on a seperate planet in a galaxy far, far away.......from my ear shot...in the year 2525!! At least I wouldn't have been alive.....to hear it!!!!!

I hope that this will not affect our friendship :-)
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 922
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.44.131
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 9:21 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JF, you a funny dude!!
Lololol!!!
Would the "current crop" know what lugubrious means??

BTW, Audrey Wheeler was also one of my NYC session ladies on occasion.
She is quite a talented and fun lady indeed.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1569
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 10:53 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Verry much Bobby of E! You know, it would be too lugubrious for me to attempt to explain it. Not that I'm an elitist, or anything like that. I'm just a small little postal man, but I do work hard for my customers!!!!

Audrey was alright with me!!
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 311
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:14 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info about Tawatha, Eli. Juice, you most likely already know that 'Did I Dream You' wasn't the only jam that Tawatha had on her solo album. There was also 'The Waiting's Over', 'Love Shine' and the brilliant slow jam 'No More Tears'. Epic records completely fumbled the ball with that album! With all of the excellent songs on "Welcome To My Dream" they chose to release 'Thigh Ride' and 'Are You Serious' as the singles! Those two songs are nowhere near the best on the album. And 'Thigh Ride' was a large enough hit IMO that Miss Agee should've had another album released. What happened? Every time I think about this woman's talents now being wasted singing behind The Dave Matthews Band I could scream! :-(

Medusa, that's an excellent point you made about the sound systems of the 60's and 70's. I guess today's technology would make it easier to hear he backup singers without having so far upfront.

Thanks for clearing that up about Aretha's cousin SDF. Did Brenda ever do any solo recordings?

Juice, I'm LMAO at your 'Endless Love' comments! My jawed dropped as well when I saw Eli mention that one! LOL. And if the Diana & Lionel version wasn't bad enough, Mariah Carey and Luther Vandross thought it was necessary to remake that piece of trash! Uggggggh! Who buys this stuff? :-(

Guys, I'm always getting Audrey Wheeler mixed up with Alyson Williams for some reason? Alyson was in the group High Fashion with Meli'sa Morgan in the early 80's. She also had some solo singles in the late 80's.
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 120
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.67.206.19
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:46 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just posted on the Alicia Keys thread -- but wanted to add my comments here on this subject thread. Alicia has 3 background vocalists and featured them prominently in her show. They did an old skool medley at one point while she changed outfits. She appears to be very secure with her gift and willing to share center stage with others. Major props to her. And her singers were awesome!!!
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 318
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 3:11 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm glad you enjoyed the Alicia Keys show Linda. I personally don't care for her but at least she's a real musician! You've got real musicians and you've got "artists". Musician's have a connection with their band and backup singers. When it works it's like one wonderful musical unit. Today's "artists" have absolutely no connection with the band or their background singers. It's all about them (the "Artist")! They couldn't care less if they were singing with a live band, over a track or if the have to lip-synch! They just want to be seen for the hell of it! LOL.

Linda, it is nice to hear that Miss Keys is confident enough in her talent that she doesn't have to hide her backup singers waaaaaaaaaaaay in the back with all black on! LOL. I've got a new respect for her. :-)
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
4-Laureate
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 122
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.67.206.19
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 7:58 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Rodmann -- Like you, I'm not Alicia's biggest fan, but I appreciate her musicianship, which is why I want to support her (and was curious to see her perform live). Everybody was decently clothed and there was no M-f-ing or carrying on like that. If for that reason alone, I felt it was a decent show.
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 458
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.198.48.201
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 8:19 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice--Im sensing you dont like Endless Love. Would u like it more than a rap version of the DeFranco family Heart Beat Its a Love Beat????
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 307
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 11:25 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Rod!

I'm not sure if Brenda (Bryant, I think that's her last name) ever did solo. To my knowledge she always backed Aretha as a Sweetheart of Soul.

Allyson Williams made one song I liked, Just Call My Name, with Philip Ingram from the group Switch & younger brother of James Ingram. I remember the group High Fashion, but was so glad when Mel'isa Morgan went solo. I have everything she has made too. Wonder what she's doing nowadays. At one point she also did back-up for Chaka Khan.

Juice-Man, I have mostly all the D-Train records, and I have the cassette with the song, Oh How I Love You Girl. I also have the lp he did Columbia records. One of my favorites was Child of Love. I also like James Williams on Will Downing's cover of I Don't Want to Lose You. James' voice is quite distinctive too.

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 324
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 5:36 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally agree with you about Alicia, Linda. It is refreshing to see someone sell music instead of sex and violence for a change. She is a true musician!

Yeah Handsome. 'Just Call My Name' was a big hit for Alyson. She also had a song with someone named Chuck Stanley that I like a lot called 'Make You Mine Tonight'. I think it was a hit but it wasn't as big as 'Just Call My Name'.

Jimmy, how did you come up with a rap version of The DeFranco Family's 'Heartbeat, It's A Love Beat'? LOL. What sad is the fact that I can actually hear Kanye West sampling the hook of that song and speeding it up to a chipmunk tempo for one of his productions. Ha!
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 319
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 10:52 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod, I remember seeing the DeFranco Family on American Bandstand in the ealry 70's, LOL!

Handsome
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1622
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 12:08 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good Afternoon all :-)

Handsome, ROd, Linda: Whazzup!!!!!!!!

Jimmy: I'd rather hear a Hip-hop/Disco medley of The DeFrancos meet The Partridges meet Ethel Merman with Yoko Ono the guest lead!!!!

Walking on thin ice, INDEED!!!
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 322
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 1:16 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Juice!

Whacha Know Good!

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 331
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 5:07 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought you folks might get a kick out of this link I came across. The Sweet Inspirations have a new album out called "In The Right Place":

http://www.frixionrecords.com/ sweet.html

As most of you know The Sweet Inspirations (Cissy Houston, Sylvia Shemwell, Myrna Smith & Estelle Brown) sang background for just about anyone who was anybody in Pop and Soul in the 60's and 70's. From Aretha Franklin to Wilson Pickett to Nikki Giovanni and on and on and on. Today they're primarily known as Elvis' long time backup group. Like most of the other Classic Soul artists that can actually sing The Sweets are now making albums and singles for the Dance/Club Music crowd. The latest line up is Myrna Smith, Estelle Brown and new member Portia Griffin. I'm not too crazy about what I heard in those audio clips from this latest album but I'm just glad that the girls are still at it! And they're lookin' good!

Does anyone know how original member Sylvia Shemwell (Judy Clay's sister) has been doing lately? I know that she had a stroke about 3 years ago but I haven't heard anything since. Hopefully she's made a full recovery and she'll be able to join the other girls pretty soon. I just love that woman's voice!
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Reese (reese)
4-Laureate
Username: reese

Post Number: 118
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 204.152.13.242
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 10:05 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The last time I saw Sylvia, she was being interviewed for a CNN story about Elvis. It was when a lot of his singers and musicians were touring with a new show that had Elvis on film, and them singing live.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 70.16.137.151
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 10:35 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geez, they could have come up with some better songs than that, as they deserve MUCH better as god as they sing.
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 333
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 5:50 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reese, when exactly did you see Sylvia? Was it before or after the stroke? They've had several of those Elvis tours (without Elvis) over the years and Sylvia was a part of them until she had her stroke. After that she just seemed to drop off the face of the Earth. I hope she's doing ok.

Eli, I totally agree with you about those lackluster songs. I'm thinking that their record label just wants to sell the dance singles (which will be remixed a million different times) and the rest of the album is simply filler. I couldn't tell if it was just the poor quality of the audio clips but the girls just don't have that Sweet Inspirations sound on those recordings! It's one thing not to have Cissy Houston but the loss of Sylvia Shemwell in the group may have been too much. I'm hoping that they sound much better in person than they do on this new album.

Eli, did you ever use The Sweets or any of the original members on any of your sessions or live dates?
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 340
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 6:00 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod, I agree! The 4 of them (Cissy, Myrna, Sylvia & Estelle) just has a certain blend that's just UNDENIABLE. Granted, each in their own right are exceptional singers with great session & church backgrounds, but when you get them 4 together, you're in for a chirping azz good time!

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 341
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 6:07 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eli & Rodmann, Guess what I'm listening to?

Tawatha's Thigh Ride & Did I Dream You!!!

Damn, that woman can sing!

Handsome
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1079
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.25.185
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 12:19 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rodmann,
I never emplyed the sweets in any sessions, but I did play on their G&H produced album in 1970.
I remember Cissy bringing her little daughter to some of the sessions!
I actually knew them before that while I was with the Vibrations.
They were some real down to earth sistas!
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1706
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:33 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yo Handsome,

Speaking of Allyson Williams, have you heard her latest song? Soft And Warm is pretty doggone good.
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Rodmann (rodmann)
5-Doyen
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 337
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 4:58 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whoa Eli! So you knew little Whitney way back when! LOL. Thanks man.

You're absolutely right SDF. All four of The Sweets were great lead vocalists (especially Cissy and Sylvia) but the blend that they had together was magical! The excellent 1973 Stax album "Estelle, Myrna and Sylvia" proved that the girls still had what it took without Cissy but I'm not sure about this latest Myrna, Estelle and Portia combo. I'm sure that all three of them can still sing but it's just not the same without Sylvia or Cissy. I'm still hoping that Sylvia will join the group again.

Didn't someone say on the old forum that The Sweets (the original line-up) were supposed to join Aretha on tour? What happened with that?
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 348
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:26 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod, I remember somebody saying (Reese?) that it was only Cissy Houston, because I raised that same question some time ago.

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 349
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:40 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod, I just went on that Sweet Inspiration link...Myrna looks like Lola Falana! If Sylvia & Cissy were on it, I could only guess what color their hair would be, ha ha!

Handsome
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1713
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:44 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's up Handsome!
Hey Rod,

Did you get the song yet??
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 350
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:45 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check yo inbox, Big Bro Juice!

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 351
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:46 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, I haven't heard the song yet Juice...I'll check out though!

Handsome
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1716
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Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 2:55 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok Bro Handsome,

I'll check the box. Lately me & ebay have been tighter than Billy Paul & Mrs Jones. We REALLY have a thing going on :-)

Send me that song list we talked about & I'll see what I can conjure up!!

Peace!
Juice
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Username: rodmann

Post Number: 349
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Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 2:50 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again Juice.
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Post Number: 355
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Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 5:59 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know who the background singers were on Z.Z. Hill's 1977 hit 'Love Is So Good When You're Stealing It'? That's a wonderful song by Mr. Hill and the background singers have such a great sound! I've only had the single for years so I don't have any info about the musicians. I do know that the name of the album it's on is "Let's Make A Deal". There's gotta be at least one Z.Z. fan on the forum that has this album!
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Heikki (heikki)
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Post Number: 85
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Posted From: 81.17.199.27
Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 11:46 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rodmann!

On the album cover of Let's Make A Deal - containing Love Is So Good - it says "Maxine Williard Waters and Julia Tillman Waters appear courtesy of Warner Bros. Records, Inc."

Best regards
Heikki
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Post Number: 358
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Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 12:24 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Heikki! You know, I've asked about the background vocalists on that track since last year and you're the first one who's even bothered to answer me! LOL. Does the album credits for "Let's Make A Deal" list the musicians from track to track or are Maxine and Julia just listed as the primary background vocalists for the whole album?

I've seen The Waters' mentioned a few times on this forum before and of course I've read their names on album credits but I know absolutely nothing about them except that they were very popular session vocalists. If they did backup Z.Z. on 'Love Is So Good When You're Stealing It' I see what all the fuss was about! Those girls sounded great! What are some of the other tracks where they really stand out vocally? I'd love to hear more from them!
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 357
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Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 11:02 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod, The Waters are on "Someday, We'll Be Together", but you knew that already.

Handsome
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Reese (reese)
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Username: reese

Post Number: 120
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 204.152.13.208
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 1:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann:

The interview that I saw with Sylvia was , I believe, when they did the first "Elvis on film/and everyone else live" tour.

Re the Sweets reuniting with Aretha, last year Whitney gave an article in which she stated that a meeting was taking place. But the reunion didn't happen. Cissy did show up to sing AIN'T NO WAY with Aretha during her 2003 Boston concert. I don't know of any other guest spots she might have done.

BTW: I was just watching the Sweets last night. They were backing up Elvis during his Hawaii concert in 1973.
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SDF (handsome)
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Post Number: 364
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Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 2:07 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reese, you just had to rub it in abour the Sweets, ha ha! Is this something you have on tape?

How have you been?

Handsome
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Reese (reese)
4-Laureate
Username: reese

Post Number: 121
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 204.152.13.208
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 2:19 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Handsome,

the Elvis Hawaii concert was just re-released on dvd. It contains every bit of footage shot for the special, including the rehearsal, and the after-show taping of additional songs.

So far, I've only watched the show itself. Unfortunately, the background singers can barely be heard. I hope they are more audible in some of the other footage. But the girls did get a brief moment in the spotlight when Elvis introduces them.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
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Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1162
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Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 2:26 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had the pleasure of using the Waters on two sessions in L.A. on an artist named John Finley for 20th century.
The record never came out.
He was a dynamite singer, and believe or not, the former singer with the group Rhinoceros, but in the context of our project he was like a male Peabo Bryson.
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 365
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Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 2:42 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Reese :o)

I'll be sure to check that out!

Handsome
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1787
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Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 4:00 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Handsome,

Nothing was in my inbox partner. I may have a surprise for you next week. I'll keep you posted!!!
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 368
Registered: 4-2004
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Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 5:27 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll resend Juice...I received some undeliverable receipts.

Looking forward to the surprise :o)

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Username: rodmann

Post Number: 359
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 7:15 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Reese. I tried emailing Sylvia Shemwell earlier this year but the address that I have wasn't any good and my mail was returned. The girls are supposed to have a website at www.thesweetinspirations.com but the site has been under construction for about 2 years now. I doubt that it will ever be up. Again, I hope that Miss Shemwell is ok and that she'll be able to record again.

According to allmusic.com The Waters recorded a few LP's of their own. 1977's "Waters' on Warner Brothers and 1980's "Watercolors" on Arista. I'd like to hear these albums!

Handsome, I remember awhile back KevGo told about how he interviewed The Ikettes' Robbie Montgomery and she said that she sang on 'Someday We'll Be Together'. It's almost impossible trying to figure out who actually sang on that song!
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1wicked (1wicked)
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Username: 1wicked

Post Number: 215
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Posted From: 24.126.64.72
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 9:18 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann: Wasn't The Waters 1st album on ABC (where the seemed to do the bulk of their initial sessions) ? Also...why do people always refer to Maxine and Julia when referring to The Waters...but totally forget Oren ?????
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Heikki (heikki)
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Username: heikki

Post Number: 92
Registered: 4-2004
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Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 1:37 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rodmann!

(Sorry, I'm a bit late with this answer), but there's not a tract to track listing on Z.Z.'s Let's Make A Deal album.
That same album contains one of my all-time favourite Z.Z.Hill tracks, This Time They Told The Truth (written by Frederick Knight). That and his cover of Mr. Nobody, Somebody I cherish the most.

Best regards
Heikki
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Robb_K (robb_k)
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Username: robb_k

Post Number: 447
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.228.212.116
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 6:40 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's not forget The Dells, who MADE many Chicago hit records for the "hit" artists.

Also, Curtis mayfield and Otis Leavill backed up many of Major Lance's cuts, as well as Billy Butler and The Enchanters/Chanters did for him, Gene Chandler, and others.

Also The Blossoms, Sweet Inspirations.

Van McCoy and his stable of artists, used to do backgrounds for one another. Van often several-tracked his own voice.
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Username: rodmann

Post Number: 365
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Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 7:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey 1wicked. I don't have the two albums by The Waters that I mentioned, I just got that info from Allmusic.com. There could be another album that just isn't listed at Allmusic. I'm just now discovering The Waters so I had no idea about Oren. The only names I usually see on credits are Maxine and Julia's.

Thanks again Heikki. Z.Z.'s 1978 album "Let's Make A Deal" is available on a twofer CD along with 1979's "The Mark of Z.Z. Hill". You've talked me into it Heikki! I'm gonna have to order the cd! LOL. I'm looking at the song listing on Allmusic.com and I don't see the 'Mr. Nobody' track you mentioned?

Robb, I know that The Dells backed up Barbara Lewis on her hit 'Hello Stranger', what are some of the other singles that they sang background on?

Does anyone know who the male backup group is on Chuck Jackson and Yvonne Fair's excellent, unreleased Motown single 'It Must Be Love Baby'? Could it be The Originals? I'll never understand why that great recording didn't get released!
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Heikki (heikki)
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Username: heikki

Post Number: 95
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.17.193.223
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:16 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rodmann!

I'm afraid Mr. Nobody, Somebody was released only as a single (MHR 221) and I haven't seen it on any compilation. It might be on some, but I just haven't noticed it.

I must warn you that on the Mark album there are a couple of awful disco tracks, but a few decent ballads, too.

Best regards
Heikki
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SDF (handsome)
5-Doyen
Username: handsome

Post Number: 372
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 12:14 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right Rodmann, the world may never know, ha ha!

1wicked, to my knowledge there are 4 Waters-Maxine, Julia, Oren & Luther. My guess is for some background tracks they always use the female counterparts?? I'm guessing for their lp on ABC it was all 4 of them.

Handsome
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1818
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 6:10 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod,

The Dells sang backup on some Dinah Washington music. The Dells sans Marvin Junior sang backup on The Players' "He'll Be Back". They also sang backup on some JoAnn Garrett songs such as "Big Bad Wolf". I'll check & get back to you about some others if I can locate my info.

(Message edited by juicefree20 on August 10, 2004)
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Username: rodmann

Post Number: 374
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:49 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Heikki. I'm sorry I misunderstood. When you mentioned the 'Mr. Nobody' track I just assumed it was on the "Let's Make A Deal" album.

Juice, The Dells backed up the great Dinah Washington! Wow. I've read that they did quite a bit of session work in the early 60's when their hits were scarce but I had no idea that they were backing legends like Miss Washington!

Robb K, it's funny that you should mention The Blossoms. I was just listening to my favorite recording of theirs, 'Good, Good Lovin' from 1967. What a great song! It scraped the bottom of the Soul chart but it should've been a much bigger hit.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1824
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Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:02 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's up Rod??

For some real good info on The Dells, I'd suggest that you pick up these books by Robert Preuter: Chicago soul & Doo Wop - The Chicago Scene. These books are invaluable & you'll see just how much of that talent was intertwined. I was surprised to learn how far back these musicians & singers go & how they re-connected in the future.

These books are simply a MUST HAVE!!!! Along with Sweet Soul Music. If you don't have them, pick them up as soon as you can!!!
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1wicked (1wicked)
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Username: 1wicked

Post Number: 219
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.126.64.72
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:59 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Handsome: I'd forgotten about Luther...but most of the sessions I recall (from the credits) had background vox from Maxine, Julia, and Oren. For some reason, Luther was not included after a certain point.
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 411
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:57 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kool, 1wicked.

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Username: rodmann

Post Number: 382
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Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 5:35 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Juice. Now I remember that you suggested those two books for me on the old forum in a Patti Drew thread. I had totally forgotten. It's a shame that I'm from Chicago and the Chicago Soul scene is one of the areas of Soul music that I know the least about! LOL. I will definitely be buying those books soon or at least looking for them on my next trip to the library. Thanks man.
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 7:53 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since I was lucky enough to get the background singer information on Z.Z. Hill's 'Love Is So Good When You're Stealing It' (thanks again Heikki) I'll try it again. Another song with great background vocals that I've always been curious about is Aretha Franklin's 'If She Don't Want Your Lovin' from her 1982 album "Jump To It" which was produced buy Luther Vandross. I don't have the album but I've had a mp3 copy of this particular song for a few months now and I'm always knocked out by the great background singing on it.

Luther went all out for "Jump To It" and hired Erma & Carolyn Franklin, Cissy Houston, Darlene Love, Myrna Smith (of The Sweet Inspirations), Merry Clayton, Tawatha Agee and several other top session vocalists to sing background throughout the LP. The only voice on that I can make out singing backup on 'If She Don't Want Your Lovin' is Cissy Houston's. I'm not sure who the other ladies are that she's singing with? Will someone who owns this album please let me know who sang backup on this song along with Cissy? Hopefully the musicians are credited from track to track in the notes instead of just one long list. Thanks.
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 446
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Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:39 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod, I have the album.

I will look tonight and let you know, if someone else doesn't beat me to the punch, ha ha!

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Username: rodmann

Post Number: 424
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Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 9:10 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Handsome. It's a fairly common album. I know that several SDF members must have it.
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 455
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Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:53 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann, here is the info you requested, along with some other tidbits!

Aretha Franklin-Jump To It (lp/cd)

If She Don't Want Your Lovin'-written by Sam Dees
Background vocalists: Cissy Houston, Stephanie Spruill, Darlene Love, Paulette McWilliams, Alexandra Brown

Jump To It-Background vocalists: Cissy, Tawatha Agee, Phillip Ballou, Brenda White, Michelle Cobbs, Fonzi Thorton, Luther Vandross

(It's Just) Your Love-Background vocalists:Cissy, Stephanie, Darlene, Brenda Corbett

Love Me Right-Background vocalists:Tawatha, Phillip, Norma Jean Wright, Brenda, Michelle, Fonzi, Luther

It's Your Thing-Background vocalists:Erma Franklin, Pamela Vincent, Sandra Dance, Brenda Corbett

I Wanna Make It Up To You-Background vocalists:Erma Franklin, Pamela Vincent, Sandra Dance, Brenda Corbett & The Four Tops

Just My DayDream-Background vocalists:Cissy, Stephanie Spruill, Darlene Love

Rod, Myrna is not on the Jump To It album at all. She is on the Love All The Hurt Away & Get It Right lps, (which I also have).

Aretha Franklin-Get It Right

Get It Right-Background vocalists:Tawatha, Yvonne Lewis, Phillip, Brenda, Michelle, Fonzi, Luther

Pretender-Background vocalists:Tawatha, Yvonne Lewis, Phillip, Brenda, Michelle, Fonzi, Luther

Every Girl (Wants My Guy)-Aretha-Lead & background vocals

When You Love Me Like That-Background vocalists:Cissy, Myrna Smith, Darlene, Paulette, Luther

I Wish It Would Rain-Background vocalists:Sandra Richardson, Brneda Corbett, Margaret Branch

Better Friends Than Lovers-Background vocalists:Michael Lovesmith, Danny Smith, Arron Smith

I Got Your Love-Background vocalists:Cissy, Myrna Smith, Darlene, Paulette, Luther

Giving In-Background vocalists:Cissy, Myrna, Paulette, Luther

Aretha-Love All The Hurt Away (just a few songs for background's sake)

Hold On, I'm Coming-Background vocalists:Cissy, Estelle, Darlene, Margaret Branch

It's My Turn-Backgrund vocalists:Cissy, Myrna, Estelle, Darlene, Margaret Branch

Truth & Honesty-Background vocalists:Cissy, Myrna, Estelle, Darlene, Marci Levy, Jo Ann Harris, Linda Lawrence

Search On-Background vocalists:Marci Levy, Jo Ann Harris, Linda Lawrence

On some of Aretha's Atlantic sides:

Try Matty's:Almeda Lattimore, Margaret Branch, Pat Lewis (I've never heard of Almeda & Pat before)

Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing:Cissy Houston, Myrna Smith, Sylvia Shemwell & Judy Clay

Sit Down & Cry and The Weight: Cissy, Dee Dee Warwick, Sylvia Shemwell

I'm In Love-Cissy, Deidre Tuck (who is she?), Gwen Guthrie, Judy Clay

Rod, also note that on Chaka Khan lp, "Naughty", that featured singles, Clouds & Papillion (aka Hot Butterfly) most of the vocals on that album were by Ashford & Simpson, Ullanda McCullough, Cissy & Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, Hamish Stuart (from AWB) & Mark Stevens (Chaka's brother).

Hope I didn't kill you with the info, ha ha ha!


Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Username: rodmann

Post Number: 432
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Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 8:41 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whoa Handsome! Thank you man! I had no idea that 5 backup singers were on 'If She Don't Want Your Lovin'. The harmony is so tight that it only sounds like 2 or 3! LOL. I was thinking that it was only Cissy Houston & Darlene Love singing behind Aretha. Unreal!

I could've sworn I read somewhere that Myrna Smith and Merry Clayton appeared on the "Jump To It" sessions. I'm not sure where I got that from but obviously I was mistaken. I do know for a fact that Aretha didn't do all her own background vocals on 'Every Girl (Wants My Guy)'! I know I hear Tawatha (and possibly Cissy) on that! LOL.

'Jump To It', 'It's Your Thing', 'When You Love Me Like That', 'Every Girl (Wants My Guy)', 'Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing', and 'Young, Gifted And Black' are some of my favorite jams by Aretha and all of them have great backup singing. Aretha sang the hell out of 'Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing' but that little bit that Cissy Houston, Myrna Smith, Sylvia Shemwell & Judy Clay did at the end knocks me out of my seat every time I hear it! Those girls were tight!

Handsome, Luther's voice is very prominent on Chaka Khan's 'Papillion (aka Hot Butterfly)'. As a matter of fact his voice is so distinctive (like Cissy Houston and Dee Dee Warwick) that you can spot him on almost everything he sang on as a background vocalist! LOL. I'm not sure if you know it or not but Luther sang lead on the original version of 'Hot Butterfly' with Greg Diamond's Bionic Boogie a few years before Chaka recorded it. The Sweet Inspirations also recorded the song before Chaka on their 1979 "Hot Butterfly" LP.

I've seen Almeda Lattimore's name on labels and credits before. A few singles in my collection (that I can't of right now) have her listed as the writer. There's also a single by her called 'These Memories' (Mainstream 5575) that's supposed to be a huge Rare Groove collector's item. That's about all I know. If I remember what the songs are that she wrote I'll get back to you. It's so funny that you brought her up because I've always been curious about her myself and wondered if she's related to Benny (Latimore) in any way?

On another note, my question to everyone is who the hell is Fonzi Thorton? For years I've seen this man's name on album credits but I still have no idea who he is! I'm also having a hard time figuring out what he sounds like since he's usually on tracks with several other background singers.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1960
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 9:01 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Rod,

Fonzi was afilliated with Luther & if I remember correctly, Chic back in the day. He was a background singer & had a dance cut back in 1983 named Beverly.
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SDF (handsome)
6-Zenith
Username: handsome

Post Number: 473
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:31 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And to add to Juice's comments Luther & Fonzi are best friends. Fonzi did a lot of session work and is an excellent singer. I remember seeing a clip of Luther, Fonzi, one of Luther's sisters on Sesame Street singing back in the 70's, I think.

Fonzi Thornton & Robert Wright produced The Jones Girls 1984 RCA lp-On Target.

Rod, on Aretha's Every Girl (Wants My Guy), I agree with you. I was only stating what the lp said...it was probably a typo.

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 474
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:32 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Rod, I did know about Luther's version with Bionic Boogie. It took me 10 years after that to find out who made the song, though Luther's voice stood out, which is a good thing, because Luther is my boy!

Handsome
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SDF (handsome)
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Username: handsome

Post Number: 482
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Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 1:21 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann, I just thought about it..some of Luther's session singers are on Tramaine Hawkins A & M lp, entitled "The Search is Over" (Fall Down-Spirit of Love was the single), which was also produced by Robert Wright & Fonzi Thorton. I remember Tawatha Agee & Fonzi singing background on some of the tracks...I have to pull this album out to be sure.

Handsome
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Rodmann (rodmann)
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Post Number: 448
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Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 12:08 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Handsome. Chaka's version of 'Hot Butterfly' is my favorite but Luther's isn't bad. I still haven't heard the version by The Sweets but AMG.com says it's horrible.

I had no idea that Fonzi produced Tramaine's "The Search Is Over" album. There's some great songs on there. My favorite is the second single 'In The Morning Time'. That's my jam!

I did a little research and I see that Fonzi released two albums for RCA in the early 80's. Like Juice pointed out he was also a background singer for Chic and in 1978 sang lead on a song titled 'I Work For A Livin' from the little known Nile Rodgers produced soundtrack to the film "Soup For One". Thanks to the magic of filesharing I was able to hear 'I Work For A Livin' and I was knocked out! Whoa! Fonzi has a great voice and the song is great! Why this jam was never a hit we'll never know! It's definitely worth a listen if you can find it.
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1wicked (1wicked)
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Post Number: 237
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Posted From: 24.126.64.72
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 12:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann: Just O.K. ?? (LOL) Bionic Boogie w/ Luther's version of "Papillon" is the definitive version and is STILL a Stepper's jam ! I dig Chaka's version too...but her reading of it is totally different and (IMHO) lack's Luther's "fire".
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Rodmann (rodmann)
6-Zenith
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 451
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 1:00 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL. Hey Wicked. I didn't mean to slight Luther in any way. It's just that I became accustomed to Chaka's take on the song because I heard it for years before Luther's. Now since when has Chaka Khan ever "lacked fire"? :-)
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Rodmann (rodmann)
6-Zenith
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 470
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 3:31 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) I FOUND IT! I finally found an update on the condition of Sylvia Shemwell of The Sweet Inspirations! I'm thinking that I'm the only member of the forum that gives a rat's behind but here's the link and a few recent pics if anyone's interested:

http://www.elvis.com/news/full _story.asp?id=664

Sylvia's lookin' good! According to the article she's not doing as well as I had hoped but she is getting better. Sylvia and her sister Judy Clay are two of the most brilliant yet underrated and neglected female vocalists of all-time IMO. I just love their singing! I will definitely be writing Miss Shemwell and wishing her well at the address that was included in the article.
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Wonder B (wonder_b)
6-Zenith
Username: wonder_b

Post Number: 673
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.48.121.43
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 5:06 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Rodmann, Fonzi Thornton had two LP's under his own name after years of background vocals (another cat who used to sing background with him was Phillip Ballou) and his biggest single was 'Beverly' a song from his first LP. I am showing here the cover of his second album.
FT

Wonder B
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2088
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 56.0.103.25
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 2:22 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, if memory serves me, Mr Ballou sang with Change as well.
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Wonder B (wonder_b)
6-Zenith
Username: wonder_b

Post Number: 678
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 193.253.226.116
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 7:07 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You got that right Juice... but he did so many sessions (like Fonzi) it's strange that nobody ever produced even a single on him...

Wonder B
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Rodmann (rodmann)
6-Zenith
Username: rodmann

Post Number: 474
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 12.223.151.165
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:57 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info about Fonzi, guys. Wonder, I had seen the cover of Fonzi's first LP but this is my first look at "Pumpin" cover art. It's interesting! LOL. :-)
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SDF (handsome)
6-Zenith
Username: handsome

Post Number: 491
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 2:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rodmann, that 'cause Fonzi's "pumpin", ha ha!

As you all know Fonzi & Phillip Ballou sang with & backgrounded with Luther for years. Some of the session singers travel in the same circles.

Handsome
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LeVan45789 (levan45789)
1-Arriviste
Username: levan45789

Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 166.107.155.197
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 7:04 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Sweets version of Hot Butterfly is great. I have their album from 79' I bought it for their single at the time Hot Fun which is also great. These ladies really can sing.
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SDF (handsome)
6-Zenith
Username: handsome

Post Number: 506
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 5:09 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think anyone has mentioned the Ridgeway Sisters-Gloria, Gracie & Esther. These ladies can chirp their azzes off too. They are singing on Anita Baker's new song, "You're My everything". They also have sang behind Aretha Franklin on a few of her Arista albums. I'm assuming these ladies are out of Detroit?

Handsome
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 43
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 6:01 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Rodman,
Thank you for the post on "the sweets"
I had no idea of Sylvia's conditon.I had the pleasure of working with them in the mid 70's on a project for caribou records. Sylvia is just plain "awesome". We had great fun!! Estelle has quite a sense of humor. (I had to crop this photo ,so i lost Myrna) . I'm still learning how to navigate. Much Love to the "Sweets", especially to Sylvia. I will try to get in touch with her. thanks Rodman.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2274
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 6:14 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Phil,

If you can e-mail me a copy of the original picture, I can resize it & send it back to you for posting.

juicefree@hotmail.com
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Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg)
5-Doyen
Username: linda_di_fsg

Post Number: 188
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 165.170.128.65
Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 2:44 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check out this article about background singers -- http://www.grammy.com/features /2004/0806_sessionsingers.aspx

Great article about singers who are so talented (and in many cases, more talented than the front!)

(You go, Cindy! A voice from the heavens!)

(Message edited by linda di fsg on September 09, 2004)
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SDF (handsome)
6-Zenith
Username: handsome

Post Number: 514
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 170.118.158.14
Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 3:23 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda Di, that was a great article...Big Props to Cindy Mizelle & Brenda White-King (background vocalists for LUTHER)& Brenda's husband-Curtis King!

Thanks!!

Handsome
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 52
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 10:02 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to juice, i can re-post the entire photo with the "Sweets". (Richie Rome, Myrna Smith, Sylvia Shemwell, Myself & Estelle Brown) at Village recording studios in L.A.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1601
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 70.16.142.171
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 11:32 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey Foss,

I remember that sweater!
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 54
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 3:02 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobby,Dat's Cause Youza way back Brotha' like me.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2312
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 6:11 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Phil,

Like I said, anytime bro!! As I also said, consider it repayment for I'll Be Around, My First Mistake & Givin' It Back To You!!!

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