By david, glasgow, scotland (213.1.155.71 - 213.1.155.71) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 08:57 am:

graham you said recently that 'i love you madly' may have been recorded at tera shirma.

do you know of any other ric tic outings possibly recorded there?

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 02:19 pm:

I'll check.
I've just sent you a couple of scans of other TS recordings involving Clay McMurray, as well as the Ernstrat disc.
Cheers, Graham

By MIKE TERRY (205.188.197.159 - 205.188.197.159) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 11:44 pm:

I RECALL RECORDING THE WHOLE IS A STAGE BY THE FANTASTIC 4 AT UNITED SOUNDS STUDIO.ALSO A INSTRUMENTAL CALL YOU GOT TO PAY THE PRICE.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 11:52 pm:

Mr Terry - Mike
YOU GOT TO PAY THE PRICE is very well-known over here, a true "Northern Soul" classic. Many a Soul fan has it in their collection - I certainly have the Ric Tic 45. I guess back then you never imagined people might remember it in the year 2002, let alone love it!
By the way, it's number four in my all-time top ten instrumentals:

http://www.ritchie-hardin.com/soul/mytopins.html

By john Lester (213.122.200.225 - 213.122.200.225) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 01:32 am:

Can someone pinch me please and wake me up...

Mike....do you realise how many of your records are in our collections....and most of us here live in the UK...

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 12:11 pm:

Mike Terry

I came across 'Pay the price' on a RIC TIC Relic compilation album that came out here, in the UK, in the seventies. I had heard 'Ooh Pretty Lady' by Al Kent and loved it. I later bought the RIC TIC single in about 1989 and paid £5.00 for it. These tracks are still being sold now, here in the UK! If you played the sax (maybe - but I think you did!) on 'Our Love (is in the pocket)' by J J Barnes, I have been playing that, with other stuff from the sixties, including 'Competition ain't Nothin'/Carl Carlton which are on a CD I received for Xmas, everyday! I actually played the J J Barnes track, through my CD walkman, to somebody last week in a central London restaurant! The guy asked me why he had never heard this song before and how can he get hold of a copy, because his 19 year old son has started to buy 1960's Motown stuff and loves it!! The guy, a friend of mine said he loved it to and wanted to know about this music he had never been privileged to hear.

The music is current, as far as many are concerned - infact, I am right this minute playing the J J Barnes track to somebody!! If you are in contact with Mr Al Kent, I am absolutely sure he would be amazed too, at the popularity of his compositions and productions.

Cheers

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 12:21 pm:

Mike Terry

I meant to mention the Fantasic Four/Can't stop looking for my baby'. That was on the same RIC TIC compilation and I love it. 'The cheapest greasy spoon' line has never sounded better!

Cheers

Carl

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 12:30 pm:

Looks like the forthcoming Ric Tic/Golden World CD compilation will sell more than a few copies to members of this Forum alone! Any more news on this...? I wonder when we can look fwd to a sneak preview of the tracklisting??

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 12:36 pm:

I will certainly be after a copy - all the volumes they release, infact!

Carl

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 12:48 pm:

How about a little "no-prize" competition for the folks here...? Why don't we try and come up with a possible tracklisting for the CD? Whoever gets the closest to the actual article gets no prize, simply the accolade of "Ric Tic Clever D**k"!

(By the way, I selected 27 tracks for my own personal "Best of.." CD, from just Golden World singles, without touching on Ric Tic at all, so distilling a mere 18 titles from both catalogues will not be an easy task!)

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 01:05 pm:

Great idea - but I am no expert on Golden World or RIC TIC. Not like you guys! So I may not qualify for the title. But here's a couple that I know and enjoy:

Ooh! Pretty Lady - Al Kent
You've got to Pay the Price - Al Kent
Shades down - Detroit Emeralds
Hey! - Barbara Mercer, which I love, by the way.
Can't stop looking for my baby - Fantastic 4
Just the Lonely - Fantastic 4, love that too!
Girl in the Candy store - The Reflections

Also some of the 'b' sides are great to, especially Al Kent stuff. Plus loads of stuff I have never heard please AND most important, as many out takes, mistakes, errors, count ins and twiddley bits that make my mouth water!

Cheers Carl

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 01:21 pm:

OK, here's my two-penn'orth.... Not in progam order:

RELECTIONS - (JUST LIKE) ROMEO & JULIET
JUANITA WILLIAMS - BABY BOY
BARBARA MERCER - HEY!
GINO PARKS - MY SOPHISTICATED LADY
TAMIKO JONES - I'M SPELLBOUND
EDWIN STARR - AGENT DOUBLE-O SOUL
ADORABLES - OOH BOY
JJ BARNES - PLEASE LET ME IN
EDWIN STARR - BACK STREET
JJ BARNES - REAL HUMDINGER
SAN REMO GOLDEN STRINGS - FESTIVAL TIME
EDWIN STARR - HEADLINE NEWS
AL KENT - YOU'VE GOT TO PAY THE PRICE
LAURA LEE - TO WIN YOUR HEART
AL KENT ORCH - OOH PRETTY LADY
BOB WILSON & THE SAN REMO QT - ALL TURNED ON
FANTASTIC FOUR - CAN'T STOP LOOKING FOR MY BABY
BARBARA MERCER - NOBODY LOVES YOU LIKE ME

Plus all the ones I left out!
Maybe you might guess my preference is for the Golden World stuff. (Sticks neck out here, anticipating flak) At its best, this is as good as anything on Motown.

PS - some of these tracks are probably "missing" from the Motown archives!

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 01:35 pm:

I hope they are not missing! I am sure I have a Tamiko Jones/ I'm Spellbound, on Contempo, from the seventies. I must dig it out. Is it a re-make?? I do not have enough Golden World stuff to compare really. I do hope extensive sleeve notes go in. Mind you, we could consult our distinguished guests on the forum as well as those guys who already know about the stuff.

Carl

By John Lester (213.122.194.33 - 213.122.194.33) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 02:20 pm:

Motown cares very much for its vault stuff....so dont worry too much...just go ahead and hope.

Please add on Coming At You- Refelctions PLEASE

By John Lester (213.122.194.33 - 213.122.194.33) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 02:24 pm:

Motown cares very much for its vault stuff....so dont worry too much...just go ahead and hope.

Please add on Coming At You- Reflections PLEASE

In fact put on the whole of that British Ep

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 02:34 pm:

Actually, the question of "missing" Golden World tapes has already been discussed on this Forum. Maybe John can throw some light on this....? I know that certain masters are now in the hands of Goldmine through their Groovesville licensing deal, though some possibly belong to Motown after BG bought out Ed Wingate in 1966. Barbara Mercer's HEY and NOBODY LOVES YOU.., JJ Barnes' PLEASE LET ME IN, plus the Adorables, Carl Carlton, and a few more.

I don't have the Spellbound 45 on Contempo, so I can't comment. However, John Abbey & co did license some titles from Don Davis in the early 70s (JJ Barnes - Sweet Sherry and a whole album's-worth of material) so it's possible that their "Spellbound" may have been the original.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 02:41 pm:

John
The Reflections' COMIN' AT YOU is one of my all-time favourites!!! I only have it on a CD I remastered - from an open-reel tape that I recorded in 1971 - from a bunch of borrowed 45s, and I haven't found another copy of that particular track again since. (I even asked Tony and Gary if they could help me find another copy!)
Comin' At You was a constant-spin in my neck of the woods 1971-72, so that song and I go back a long way.

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 06:00 pm:

I will check the Tamiko Jones track. I also have a Contempo 'To an early grave' by J J Barnes. I will check that too. I have never heard 'Comin at You', but somehow, I think real soon I will be.

Cheers

Carl

By phillysoulman (205.188.197.159 - 205.188.197.159) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 06:48 pm:

I have actually played on a Tamiko Jones session!She was dating arranger Jimmy Wisner Of Len Barry fame after he divorced his wife. I went to his house in New Jersey to rehearse for the session and met her there for the first time.
The title evades my mind right now , although it will probably resurface.I don't know for which label,but it was in the sixties.

By Dave Rimmer (213.1.130.101 - 213.1.130.101) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 08:18 pm:

The Tamiko Jones release on Contempo is not the original version of Spellbound. From memory John Abbey was married to Tamiko Jones at the time she re-recorded the track.

Dave Rimmer

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 08:51 pm:

John Abbey was married to Tamiko Jones?

Talk about taking your work home with you! ;o)

By Poly Esther (152.163.195.182 - 152.163.195.182) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 09:12 pm:

Forgive my ignorance, but as a somewhat youngish punter and novice musician,and because of the proximity to where I live in England, relative to any worthwhile "specialist"record shops,I have not been able to find any of the compilations that you speak of. I have through my limited historical research, been aware of Al Kent and have heard some of his recordings at various allnighters. My question is was Al Kent an actual person or was it a ficticious name applied to those various Golden World instrumentals as a guise for someone else.
As i have previously mentioned, on another post,I dabble with the bass somewhat and I play a "Status" brand bass that I purchased second hand. I believe it is a British manufaturer although I am not quite sure.
It does not even come close to a Fender Precision bass used by James Jamerson and Bob Babbitt.
I have tried to transcribe various bass parts but my fingers just can't handle it, especially with the Status.

Cheers,

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 09:51 pm:

al kent's real name was al hamilton.

i've got a picture (albeit from a distance) of him in united sound, courtesy of ed wolfrum.

a united sound story will be the next studio webisode. some great pics to let you all see, including of one mr mike terry.

By John Lester (213.122.202.178 - 213.122.202.178) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 10:30 pm:

David..get ED to find his check letter please...

BTW, I think the Tera Shirma story has just got to be just one of the many successes of this site.
The United story will be another one, I am sure..

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 09:13 am:

Poly

Your English accent is wonderful to listen to. Maybe if you are down in London we could all meet up for fish and chips or jellied eels!

Your bass guitar surely has LaBella flat wounds on though?

I like the writing team of Hatcher/Hamilton/Morris - that was the first time I was aware of Ric Tic and the like. The Hamilton being Mr. Kent.

By Ian W (213.122.170.22 - 213.122.170.22) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 08:51 pm:

Thanks Mike Terry, Al Kent, Ed Wingate and all staff and artists at Golden World/Ric Tic. That's how I began collecting Detroit 45s and I don't think you could find any better. How about a section of value-for-money double-sided singles? My money goes on Edwin Starr's SOS/I Have Faith In You but I guess Darrell Banks' Open The Door To Your Heart/Our Love would give it a run for its money.

Ian

By Ian W (213.122.170.22 - 213.122.170.22) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 08:56 pm:

Oops, I think I read somewhere that Dennis Coffey does the guitar lick on You Got To Pay The Price.
Also Ginger occasionally plays a vocal by one of the Supremes (can't remember which one) singing this - quite different to Gloria Taylor's version.

Ian

By Poly Esther (205.188.199.161 - 205.188.199.161) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:10 pm:

Carl,

We must do that sometime. I will be in London on Saturday. I am going to scour the various shops that cater to rare records and maybe you can point me in the right direction.
Poly Esther

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:10 pm:

headline news and harlem is another ace double sider.

By Dave Rimmer (213.1.132.230 - 213.1.132.230) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:35 pm:

Poly,

I tried to post this direct to you but your email addy isn't available.

If you are in London next Saturday, stay for the 100 Club allnighter.

If you or anyone else for that matter need more details get back to me off the forum.

Dave Rimmer

By Lester in disguise (213.122.192.177 - 213.122.192.177) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:54 pm:

It's Jean Terrell who does that vocal on You Gotta Pay The Price...one that nearly landed up on the Supremes box set.....spoiled by yours truly I am afraid

Sorry guys, you are gonna hate me for this, but I actually thought you would prefer The Day will come Between Sunday And Monday....guess I was wrong ...again!!

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 10:52 am:

Dave Rimmer/Poly

I am a member of the 100 club and due to the wonderful shift work I do am am unable to attend......again! As for hunting old soul 45's, I would think the all nighter dance venues would be best, but you will pay the 'market' price upwards of £5.00 to anything like £400+. I must admit I have not really spotted that many record deals these day, although, because of this forum my eyes are a little wider than before (Sorry, I must copyright that line!!).

By John Lester (213.122.195.128 - 213.122.195.128) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 01:49 pm:

Carl

Tell us some of the acts that you have seen at the 100 club in Oxford Street right in the heart of the music capital - London....

I seem to recall...Lenny Williams, Maxine Brown, Johnny Bristol, Mary Love, Kim Weston...

Even that list shows you that we Brits know good music when it hits us in the face.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 02:46 pm:

John

Only if I had - I dropped Ady an e-mail asked whether my wife and I could join. He promptly replied yes, and sent us the memberships. However, that was only in the last 3 months or so and as their all- nighters seem to fall on a weekend I always have to work, sometimes on the overnight shift too, I am stuffed. My shifts are 12 hours long and tiring and really odd hours. However, The Metropolitan all-nighter in the Holloway Road always falls on my weekend off - so that is not so bad. Therefore I have never seen any acts at the 100 club. I may have to book time off to do it.

But as you mentioned Mary Love, I saw her and the band (with her husband I believe playing keyboards) at the Jazz Cafe in the last year or so. She was excellent. I bought the Kent CD from there that evening and heard 'Lay this burden down' crystal clear at home at full volume. That is a great track, I love those Motown style back beats and the beginning, piano, bass and drums......electric to see her perform it.

Now Maxine Brown would have been nice to see. Did she sing 'Let me give you my lovin'? I am sure she did. I fell in love with that in 1976, when I heard it on that Pye DiscoDemand LP. From memory, that was Ian Levine�s first professional sleeve notes he wrote. He told me that and I got him to autograph the sleeve for me!

Isaac Hayes appeared a couple of years ago too. That was super. The musicians had a break while he sang this love song with just the him and the piano. When the band came back out, the wah wah man said to the music director 'are we doing Shaft??' - I read his lips. He was so excited when he nodded back, yes we are! You could see the thrill in his face too.

I must admit John, I have not seen that many classic sixties acts. I saw the Detroit Emeralds, New York City, George Macrae, Linda Carr and Jimmy Ruffin in Hull in my teens and since then Motown acts down here in London. But as you have probably gathered I am in gear and trying to pay my respects to whichever artists tour here, before they pack in and call it a day for one reason or another. I still think New York City, lifted me out my seat and took me to heaven. Their vocal harmonies when they sang solo were terrific. Accapella, I think they call it. It really moved me. I would love them to sing one of my songs with that same style. I still have a poster, I think advertising 'Quick, fast, in a hurry', which I adore for personal reasons, that was given to my best friend in 1974 I think. He is no longer with us sadly, but I know his spirit is around me and strange things keep happening to me - very odd! However, even though not as good as 'I'm doin' fine' I love it.

I remember seeing Edwin Starr in Hull, when he was recording on 'Bradleys' and had just released 'Stay with me' I think. I bet even he cannot remember that one!

Cheers - I've rambled.....

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.52.110 - 213.122.52.110) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 02:54 pm:

carl
stick on mary love's 'i'm in your hands'.... the epitome of our music.

i also enjoy listening to her 'newer' stuff ie. 'sandbox'.

By John Lester (213.122.199.189 - 213.122.199.189) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 12:01 am:

that whole Cd was bootiful....

I love I'm In YOUR hands.. doop dooooo dooo...YOUR hands...that's a cracker, David

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 08:36 am:

And to think she cut the demo of 'A tough of Venus' according to the sleeve notes!

By John Lester (213.122.201.206 - 213.122.201.206) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 07:11 pm:

Have you heard it by Marvin Gaye?...Touch Of Venus that is?

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 08:21 pm:

No - when did he do that?? I was trying to get them to play it on some Tennis thing at work, somebody was called 'Venus' - but I know nout about sport!

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 08:29 pm:

I have dug out the Contempo 'I'm spellbound' by Tamiko Jones. It was written by: Mccoy, Redd,Crosby. It was produced by her and Marlin McNicholls in 1975 (wow, I was only 4 months old he he)! It says Jobete(LDN) Ltd on the label. Does that mean maybe Mr Hank Crosby has a contribution?

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:26 pm:

Carl.

Re "I'm Spellbound" - the writers were

Rose Marie McCoy - veteran New York singer / writer - she's been in the business since the
early 50's

Gene Redd - ex-doowopper with the Fi-Tones, went
into writing / producing with looooads of credits
- possibly most succesful as the producer of all the early Kool and the Gang records - owned Red
Coach the label that gave us northern favourite
The Carstairs ( who included Cleveland Horn who
was later in the Fantastic Four who were also
produced by Gene on their first single)

Jimmy Crosby - don't remember anything about him
off hand

By John Lester (213.1.132.120 - 213.1.132.120) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:53 am:

Rose McCoy....I have a 45 by her on Brunswick....Andy Rix was sniffing round it on one of his vists to my home......so it must be worth a fortune!!! Naaah, only joking..but there is a link with Shrine somewhere....gotta be

Jimmy Crosby Gene Redd..."Monkey See Monkey Do".....one word...FABULOUS.

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:15 pm:

John,

Re Rose Marie McCoy - I don't know if she ever
did anything at Shrine but it's almost certain
Eddie Singleton knew her or at least knew of her
- I haven't checked her BMI account but her song list is probably huge.

That Brunswick single - haven't heard it - it's
from around '74 / '75

By phillysoulman (64.12.102.169 - 64.12.102.169) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:11 pm:

GENE REDD PASSED AWAY ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ,MAYBE MORE. I PLAYED ON TONS OF RED COACH THINGS WHEN HE RECORDED AT A STUDIO OWNED BY JESSE JAMES CALLED FUTURE GOLD. WE DID THE TEMPREES DEDICATED...... ETC. THER AS WELL.
JOHN GARY WILLIAMS OF THE MAD LADS HAD A PHILLY THING AROUND '73 AND '74 AND HE DID THE TEMPREES AS WELL I BELIEVE THAT THE WHOLE WORLDS GOIN CRAZY WITH US . IT AMAZES ME EVEN NOW AS TO HOW MUCH STUFF I PLAYED ON.
MOST OF THE REDD COACH STUFF FEATURED YOGI HORTON ON DRUMS AND FRANK PRESCOD ON BASS. THEY WERE PART OF THE ALL-PLATINUM BUNCH OUT OF ENGLEWWOD N.J. JESSE'S STUDIO WAS GOOD BUT HE WENT RELIGIOUS AND MADE A MINISTRY OUT OF IT.
tHE OUTSIDE SIGN READS, "MALCOLM AUTO PARTS"

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:50 pm:

Bobby,

That's the first I've heard of Gene Redd's death
- jeeeez, ten years ago ...

John Gary Williams "The Whole World's Going Crazy"
- that used to get played nearly every time I went
to this soul club I used to go to about 10 years
ago. It was held in a pub called "The Kilt" in
Wishaw, a little town about 15 miles east of
Glasgow. Great memories - would you believe I
saw, in person no less, Johnny Bristol, Jo Armstead and the great Sam Dees there.

Jesse James is now a minister - well, maybe he'll
make a better minister than producer. I can't say
I ever really rated his productions. Stuff like
"Boogaloo Down Broadway" sounded dated to me when they were new releases.

By Ken Sands (63.212.148.148 - 63.212.148.148) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:01 pm:

I Love You Madly was recorded at Magic City Records 4track studio on Grand River(now gone)
by myself and Steve Smith as second engineer.
It was later transferred to 8 track at United and overdubs done and remixed by me as well.
Ken