By John Lester London (213.1.130.143 - 213.1.130.143) on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 09:43 am:

Many of you guys out there will be aware that Motown 45's printed a check letter which denoted the song's producer, recording engineer and mastering engineer. Thus for example

Gladys Knight's "If I Were Your Woman" was M-K-T2 where, I believe

M = Clay McMurray
K = James Green
T2 = Terrana

Bobby Taylor's "Blackmail" was C-K-T2 where

C = Hank Cosby
K = James Green
T2 = Terrana

As far as I am aware, T3 was also allocated to Terrana but I don't know which one is Ralph and which one was Russ? Any ideas?

There were two lists of check letters (they changed around 1967). I am trying to compile the definitive list but I need help. Most of this information comes straight from the US 45's but there are gaps. Does anybody have information which I could look at to compare with my list?

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 02:41 pm:

John, I was T3 and yes my brother was T2.
Because Russ and I are twin brothers the secretaries referred to us as T2 and T3 instead of using our names.Very cute. And I must be honest here....some of these girls were real lookers!!

By John Lester (213.1.179.135 - 213.1.179.135) on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 05:09 pm:

Thanks for that Ralph. You have now confirmed that you are the first named producer on one of my favourite records of ALL time...Stoney and Meatloaf's "It Takes All Kinds Of People"...T3-T2-V-T2! I recall when I first saw that "produced by Terrana-Valvano-Terrana" on the 45, I thought, this has got to be a classic and it was...I still play that 45 and I want to give my heart felt thanks for 30 years of keeping a smile on my face.

Besides the obvious Rare Earth tracks, you seemed to spend some time with Stoney (Patti Jerome) and Meatloaf. Any memories of those days you might like to share.

I guess you must know Bob Olhsson (check letter O1) who used to work with R Dean Taylor. Bob's working out of Novato, CA last time I heard.

What do you and your colleagues think about us Brits who still worship the Detroit scene (besides maybe thinking we are a bit mad!!)?

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 07:01 pm:

john
this is intriguing!

who was responsible for bobby taylor and the vancouver's masterpiece 'don't be afraid'?

david

By John Lester (213.122.191.170 - 213.122.191.170) on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 08:37 pm:

Sadly "Don't Be Afraid" was not issued on a 45 so it is not possible to ascertain the check letter references. However, I believe that the track was originally allocated to the Vancouvers (it was on Bobby's "solo" album) and the production is clearly in the style of one of my idols, Hank Cosby.

By Julian (152.163.206.196 - 152.163.206.196) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 12:19 am:

Greetings!
Hey John, I still have that list of whoms' check letter is whoms' that was posted on the Motown list a year or so ago. It is stored on a cd that I have to locate.
I havent gotten the opportunity to ask Mr. Dennis about his letter yet, he always seems busy. I asked his son, but he does not know.
Julian

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 01:20 am:

John,
Thanks for the heartfelt compliment.If we put a smile on your face for thirty years
the whole deal was worth it.
Kindest regards,
Ralph Terrana

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 01:24 am:

John,
Sorry I completely missed the remainder of your message.I've been in the studio all day and I'm a little frazzled. I will answer the remainder of your letter early this week.
Ralph

By RalphTerrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:40 pm:

John,
Still running a little short on time, but I will begin to address some of your questions. First of all to clarify for you:
Patti Jerome was not Stony. Patti was the wife of super producer Harry Balk. She was a real trip and a remarkeable woman. Sadly she passed away a few months back. Stony's real name was Cheryl Reese.( Reese being a name through marriage.) She would later, when working as a solo performer and then back-up singer for Bob Seeger use the name Shawn Murphy,which I beleve is her actual maiden name. I recently saw Bob Ohllson when he and his wife came to visit me in Monterey. He has since moved to Nashville to set up his mastering business there.
More later John.
Ralph

By John Lester (213.1.132.111 - 213.1.132.111) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 06:58 pm:

Ralph

Put me down for your first purchaser when the book comes out.....meanwhile keep talking!

I was unaware of the tragic news for PJ...my sympathy goes out to loved ones.

Tamla 54215
TLC (Tender Loving Care) (S8/W7-U-T2-L1)
Pam Sawyer, Gloria Jones, Cal Harris, Russ Terrana, Orson Lewis

Tamla 54215/VIP 25062
It Takes A Man To Teach a Woman How To Love (Q-L-T2) Ollie McLaughlin, Lawrence T Horn, Russ Terrana

VIP 25062
(I've Give You) The Best Years Of My Life (Q-L-T2)
As above

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 07:21 pm:

john

i always remember being surprised when reading in sharon davis's book that pam sawyer was british.

what do you know of her?

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 09:56 pm:

David,
Pam was cool.An attractive blond who was very intense. She was definitly British.
Very talented.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:38 pm:

John,
To answer more of your questions:
Meatloaf and I were very close. Every Friday night he and his then girl friend Jill,( who we referred to as "bears' due to the fact that during a recording session one night she gave Meat a Hall's cough drop to sooth his throat.Well the things are so strong they make your eyes water, so Meat said " Damn Jill these things are bears ) would come to my house to spend the evening. Meat loved to play board games and he would come in with games SO obscure,I never quite knew where he found them. A board game and two packages of candy. Meat was a very bright guy...he would quickly read the directions to the game....explain the rules to us and we'd play until the wee hours of the morning.There was a time I was starting to receive a little pressure from some of the higher ups at Motown to dump Meatloaf and concentrate on Stoney. I wouldn't do it. Meat was my friend AND I believed in him.
I felt SOOO vindicated when "Bat Out Of Hell" took off for him after his Motown days.He's a great guy and no one works harder than Meatloaf.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:47 pm:

John,
What do I think of you"mad " Brits for loving Detroit R&B? I can't even begin to tell you what a breath of fresh air that is John. With rap today and what ever this new R&B is, it's refreshing to know there are those out there that still appreciate and recognize well produced, well written, well performed records. I can only pray that your " madness" spreads to this side of the Atlantic Ocean.

By John Lester (213.1.128.243 - 213.1.128.243) on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 06:39 am:

Pamela came from a town near to where I was brought up....Romford....in Essex. It was the biggest town in my area and the place where I used to buy my Tamla Motown records.

I bought Love Child in Romford and, although I didn't know it at the time, you can imagine how thrilled I was discovering later that a Brit was the first named writer of the song. It made me feel proud.

Charlene was an Essex girl too....Chelmsford way...and for the Brits here - NO ESSEX girl jokes please!!

By John Lester (213.1.128.243 - 213.1.128.243) on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 06:44 am:

So Ralph....any more insight to the artists that you worked with at Motown?

I run a Motown group. (Motown@yahoogroups.com) I am sending these people over here now!!

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 06:20 pm:

john

can i try another?:-

'this old heart of mine' tammi terrell
for me better than the original - but who were the engineering staff?

By John Lester (213.122.197.80 - 213.122.197.80) on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 03:48 pm:

I have been checking over some Rare Earth 45's.....and have a few queries....any help would be appreciated...

Who is the "Lenny" stamped on the run-out on the 45's?

Tom Baird - this man seems to have a multitude of check letters - is he B2, B3 or B4 or all three? Tom is B2 on Michael Denton's release but B3 on Rare Earth's "I Just Want To Celebrate" and the 45 by My Friends "I'm An Easy Rider/Concrete and Clay" under the reference T2/T3 (that's you Ralph!)-B3-T2!!!! However, on Rare Earth's "When Joanne Smiles" - he is B4 (and this is really odd because this same check letter is on the release from Danny Hernadez which has a producer Bob Baldori but a check letter of T2 in the run out for Russ Terrana!!!!! Aaaaghhh - help!).

Any idea who P2 is who worked with Russ on Kiki Dee's "Jimmy"

Rustix- We All End Up In Boxes ..I have an odd note about the track for this song being used elsewhere. I don't have the 45 so I can't be sure. Any one have info?

Does anyone even know what I am babbling on about..cos I am not sure I do!!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 10:16 pm:

John,
I can't help you to much here. I haven't a clue who Lester is. As far as Tom Baird's codes I really was only familiar with my own, so I guess I can't help there. If it wasn't for the secretaries calling me T3 all the time I probably wouldn't know my code either.
There is a whole story waiting to be told on Tom Baird though. He was an amazingly talented guy. I co-produced the band " My Friends " with him. Everyone loved Tom. Sadly he was killed in a boating accident several years ago.

By John Lester (213.122.204.2 - 213.122.204.2) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 07:10 am:

Ralph

Can you tell us a bit of the Tom Baird story then.

I didn't know about that terrible news about Tom Baird - I'm sorry.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 02:27 pm:

John,
I want to think a little on the Tom Baird story. He was such a unique, interesting guy.For the sake of his memory I will need a little time to present his story through
My experiences with him.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 03:37 pm:

John,
To finally answer your question regarding who I was working wih at Motown. I was primarily involved with getting the Rare Earth label off the ground. I produced such groups a Stoney and Meatloaf, My Friends, Power of Zeus, XIT ( an American Indian band ) Michael Campbell etc.
We did some interesting experimentation also. We brought Jeff Beck over from England to do some improv sessions with the Funk Brothers. Apparently, the sessions weren't going to well and my boss, Harry Balk called me into his office to discuss it. It seems the Brothers were giving Jeff a bit of a hard time. They did have their ways at times. I had an idea. We brought Jeff in for a quick meeting and I told him I would bring in Bob Babbit ( bass ) and Andrew Smith ( drums ) for these sessions. These guys were more open to this sort of thing. I stopped by the studio the night they started recording to see how things were working out. Well the whole bunch of them were pretty drunk and having a great time in the studio and Jeff thanked me for handeling the situation. I honestly don't remember what became of those sessions.
Toward my final days with Motown, Harry called me into his office. He asked me if I would like to resurrect the career of Martha Reeves. She was kind of being passed over by the higher producers because so many acts were hot at the time. Hell, I jumped at the chance. I had lunch with Martha to discuss the situation and we got on very well.
However Motown was on the verge of major change and Los angeles was looming and the ptoject never got off the ground. To bad, to this day I think the ideas I had for her were good ones and might have worked.

By John Lester (213.1.178.136 - 213.1.178.136) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 10:30 pm:

can you remember any titles with martha.....or do you need prompting?

Give me some dates and I shall chuck a few things at you to jog your memory

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 10:46 pm:

John,
There were never any sessions with Martha.
The concept never got off the ground. Things at Motown-Detroit were shakey because it was becoming increasingly eveident that there would be a transfer of power to L.A. So that kind of stopped the project with Martha and myself.

By John Lester (213.1.132.190 - 213.1.132.190) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 09:31 pm:

Smokey writes about the influence of Xit on his Uk hit "Just My Soul Responding"...the one that starts off with "Happy Birthday to you...." Were you on that one Ralph?

By Andy Rix (195.93.49.173 - 195.93.49.173) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:11 pm:

Sorry to hear about Patti Jerome .. I spoke with her a few times whilst looking into licensing some Impact stuff from Harry ...she was really nice ... a sad loss
Andy

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 01:23 am:

John,
I only produced " Plight of the Redman "on XIT. This song must have been on a later LP......
Yes Andy...the loss of Patti was hard...especially for Harry Balk. The two of them were quite a couple and obviously loved one another. I carry nothing but the warmest memories for Patti. She was a very, very dear friend who supported me when my life hit a few bumps.I will always miss her.

By Bob Olhsson (24.6.39.201 - 24.6.39.201) on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 02:03 am:

Hi,

I spoke with Ralph today and he told be about this site. Amazing!

Here's the best list I've got of engineer and producer codes.

A - William Stevenson
AS1 - Art Stewart
B - Berry Gordy, Jr.
C - Hank Cosby
D - Lamont Dozier, later Johnny Bristol
E - Richard Witte
F - Harvey Fuqua
G - George Gordy
H - Holland & Dozier
I - Harold Taylor
J - Billie Jean Stoudmyre, later George Kerr, later Billie Jean Brown (Stoudmyre)
K - Al Klein, later James Greene
L - Lawrence Horn
L1 - Orson Lewis
M - Mickey Gentile, later, Clay McMurray
M5 - Larry Miles
N - Norman Whitfield
O - Warren Pete Moore
O1 - Bob Olhsson
P - Clarence Paul
Q - unknown or other
R - Robert Gordy
S- Richard Street,later Robert Rogers,
then Ken Sands
T - Thelma Gordy, later William Weatherspoon
T2 - Russ Terrana
T3 - Ralph Terrana
U - Ronald White, later Cal Harris
V- Brian Holland, later Sidney McCoy
W - William Robinson, Jr.
X - Tom Nixon
Z - Davis & Gordon
Z1 - Frank Wilson
Z2 - Harold Davis
GW - Golden World

Other people who had letters include:
Joe Atkinson
Robert Bateman
David Braithwaite
Ron Brown
Dennis Carlstrom
Norman Elder
Don Gooch
Bob Gratts
John Lewis
Lewis Peters
Ed Redd
Sam Ross
Gary Sabadash
Steve Smith
Mike Valvano
Leonard Wasnewski
Ed Wolfrum

If anybody can supply some, I'd really appreciate it.

Bob

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 02:28 am:

Bob,
Thanks for posting.You're amazing. Not only do you have the largest microphone collection of any recording engineer I ever knew...but codes also????? You the MAN Bob. Good talking to you today.

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 04:53 am:

Harold Taylor? Was he known as Lebaron Taylor, of Revilot? People say that Lebaron's real name is Toliver - Revilot backwards.
Urban myth or fact?
Graham

By John Lester (213.1.169.3 - 213.1.169.3) on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 07:11 am:

Hi Bob...we meet again!

I am confused about Larry Miles....you told me on the Motown list it was M5 (see the Spinners - In My Diary) but I got strong evidence to suggest
L5. Any thoughts.

You KNOW I got loads more...here is a taster.

A1 - Nick Ashford
B1 - Duke Browner
B2/3/4 - Tom Baird
B4 - Bob Baldori
B4 - Harry Balk
B5 - Robert Bullock
C2 - The Corporation
D1 - Deke Richards

How could you leave out R Dean Taylor's - D2. HAHAHA!

As it happens, I have Tom Baird as a D2 too....plus B2/B3/B4 - that man gets around!!!

D3 - Don Hunter
D4 - Junior Walker
F3 - Shorty Long
F4 - Dino Fekaris
G - Richard Morris
J1 - James Dean
J2 - Terry Johnson
K - Lawrence Payton
K1 - Eddie Kendricks
K1 - Al Kent
L3 - Sam Locricchio
M1 - Ron Miller
M2 - Pete Moore
M3 - Raynard Miner
M5 - Marvin Gaye
M7 - Wade Marcus
M9 - Bobby Miller
O - Robert Dobyne

My fingers need a rest!!!

And Bob you gave me a few more names to add to my list...thanks....

Any idea why Sylvia Moy is never on any list that I have seen? Can anyone ask her?

By John Lester (213.122.195.137 - 213.122.195.137) on Sunday, November 04, 2001 - 10:41 am:

Where did I get up to.....

R1 - Al Cleveland
R2 - George Gordy
S - Freddie Gorman
S1 - Valerie Simpson
S3 - Allen Story
S4 - Edwin Starr
S5 - C P Spencer
S8 - Pam Sawyer
U - Gil Askey
W1 - Smokey and Ronnie White
W2 - Smokey and Pete Moore
W4 - Stevie Wonder
W7 - Gloria Jones
X - Jeffrey Bowen

I might have missed a couple out on the way but that is where I have got to....there are loads that I don't have any letter for..

John Lester aka The Boy From Xtown

By Bob Olhsson (24.6.39.201 - 24.6.39.201) on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 07:45 am:

I recognise most of those. A number of them changed after the move to LA and people also took over letters from people leaving the company.

By Bob Olhsson (24.6.39.201 - 24.6.39.201) on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 07:49 am:

Harold Taylor was an engineer who as far as I know was not related to LeBaron.

By John Lester (213.1.172.183 - 213.1.172.183) on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 08:33 am:

Bob

I am glad that you said that about people taking over letters from others cos as you could see, many names have the same check letters..and that was confusing me

By John Lester (213.122.203.242 - 213.122.203.242) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 09:44 pm:

It's that time again folks and Ralph, can you put your thinking cap on for me, my friend

Nate Jennings.....does this name ring any bells?

Is he an engineer working out of Detroit or LA? I dont suppose you know a check letter, maybe Bob Olhsson might even be around to offer help!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 10:05 pm:

Nate Jennings was an engineer out of Detroit. Kind of a soft spoken scholarly dude. I always liked Nate.

By John Lester (213.122.203.242 - 213.122.203.242) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 10:22 pm:

Thank you Ralph...I knew I could rely on you!

By Ralph Terana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 03:18 pm:

John,
The more I think about Nate...I seem to remember he was at first a part of the technical engineering staff and then became a recording engineer.

By john lester (213.122.201.252 - 213.122.201.252) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 07:28 pm:

Ralph...keep talking.........I want his check letter...................

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 07:39 pm:

Where's Bob Olhsson when you need him????

By john lester (213.122.199.119 - 213.122.199.119) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 10:53 pm:

Its always the way...

Ralph...I been listening to Stoney & Meatloaf's LP...that Stone Heart does sound like the other LA song....

that is a good album, I forgot how much I liked it..

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 12:19 am:

Thanks John,
To be honest, I don't think I ever heard Stone Heart.

By john lester (213.122.196.95 - 213.122.196.95) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:01 am:

For completeness...

S is Sidney McCoy up to 1967......

S was later Ken Sands who worked on some absolute classic songs including many from my idol, Henry Cosby

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.236.189 - 63.208.236.189) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:33 am:

John Lester,

Here is another scoop for you!

Regarding your posting on this thread of January 13, 2002 - 9:44 PM, in which you wondered what happened to Nate Jennings:

Nate Jennings was one of the members of the Motown technical engineering staff, as was Ralph Pinson. Ralph did drafting, and Nate did routene maintanance on the equipment.

About two years ago, I went out to the General Motors Technical Center (North of Detroit) with Dave Clark (the technical chief at the Tower Theatre HDH operation) and low and behold, here is Ralph Pinson running a automotive sound system measurments laboratory at the Tech Center, with Nate Jennings working under him. Everything was very much "white lab coat" with very expensive and exotic measurment equipment.

We all had a rip-roaring good time, and we went to lunch.

Nate seemed very happy, and I see no reason why he would not still be working there.

Mike McLean

By john lester (213.122.201.46 - 213.122.201.46) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:54 pm:

Thank you for that Mike......

another par of the jigsaw fits..

By sabadash (199.108.55.9 - 199.108.55.9) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 05:55 pm:

John:
Nice of you to keep track of all those codes. Yes, the codes changed, almost completely when Motown finally moved to LA, but continually even before that.
There were a few retentive engineers in Detroit (did somebody say Ohlssen?), and I run into some of them from time to time here in LA. I'll see if I can find ANY official (pilfered?) lists.
Good luck with the book, and don't forget to let us know when you publish.
sabadash

By John Lester (213.122.202.231 - 213.122.202.231) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 09:47 pm:

sabadash

I am still lots missing so if you can help, I would be grateful..