By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:16 pm:

i have sent list of mike terry credits to ritchie tonight.

over 100 entries of classic material so far; the list is only partially complete

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:34 pm:

David

Thanks - just received it. Wow! So many favourites... Pure quality. Thank heaven for Mr Terry.

By John Lester (213.1.132.120 - 213.1.132.120) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:41 am:

What can I do to help?

We ought to ask Mike for a picture, don't you think!

This is just SO exciting but I think we underestimate how many people are going to want copies of this when they find out what is happening. I honestly beleive that it is only the likes of us that really know how much Mike Terry is rated over here in the UK. Thus, we might have a problem with the number of copies to be produced.

Shall we organise a kitty...I will gladly put in a £100 to start it off.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.45.85 - 213.122.45.85) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:58 am:

while i appreciate your kind offer of financial help john, it worries me that ritchie gets loaded with a monster.

it is my strong conviction that only those who have interacted on the forum to date should get a copy (i'm still unsure about a copy of what - see above).

i know from statistics that there are many, many lurkers on here. if they came on and wanted a copy i don't think that would be fair.

soulfuldetroit would have died a death 3 months ago if it wasn't for it's participants.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:45 am:

John - David

I too am excited by the prospect of this project and will do everything I can to bring it to fruition. With all due respect to the "faithful" here, I believe we should discuss the distribution question off-board.

As regards the scope of the compilation, I agree that there is so much fabulous material that picking and choosing will be difficult. However, we are not bound by the industry's demand for "point-of-sale attractiveness" which blights so many commercial releases. In this case I suggest you/we can be as selective as we like, possibly favouring the rarer items and not feeling obliged to include the blindingly-obvious. This CD does not have to entice casual browsers in Woolworths - just an informed few.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:29 pm:

If I could add an opinion...if it is felt that there is a potentially large market for a Mike Terry CD, I would suggest that all the proper licensing be arranged and the CD marketed by someone appropriate allowing Mike to make some money for all his past efforts. What better way to acknowledge this extremely talented man.....pay him.

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.54 - 205.188.199.54) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:29 pm:

I SECOND THAT EMOTION ,MATES.
I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING INVOLVED IN A NEW "OLD" MIKE TERRY SONG!!

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.1.173.67 - 213.1.173.67) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:35 pm:

spot on ralph.

i may be getting the wrong end of the stick here but the proposals leave me a bit uneasy.

although i'm still not completely sure what they are!

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:44 pm:

Hi guys

I fully agree in principle with the sentiments in all three of the last posts. However, I think we must be careful that our aspirations don't spiral into something unmanageable. David's word "uneasy" is well-chosen. I'm not trying to pour cold water on the idea, but I'm not so naive as to believe that a simple payment to Mike Terry would make everything legal and above board.

Once we start talking about licensing material, I'm out of my depth, and wouldn't know where to start in such a minefield of legal questions. These productions were licensed to many companies over the years, and God only knows who claim "ownership" to many of the tracks today. Maybe John might have some inkling on the subject, but licensing is well outside my field of experience.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:00 pm:

It's really not all that complex. Once the proper licences have been procured it's just a matter of proper accounting to ensure the publishing companies are paid their fair share of royalties earned from any sales.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:12 pm:

Hi Ralph

Thanks, I may be many things, but I never try and pretend I have knowledge about subjects I'm ignorant of. Quite honestly I wouldn't know where to start to "procure a licence", either who from or what for. I assume you have to have a good idea who owns the rights to each recording in the first place before you can begin. As for proper accounting, I think that sounds like David's specialist subject.

By Raph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:33 pm:

Ritche,
I'm a little out of my league on all this myself.If all this were to really take place I would suggest the services of good music attorney to ensure things are done properly.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:05 pm:

Ralph,

I'm sure that would be the ideal route, if I moved in those kind of circles. However, I suspect that such legal experts are pretty thin on the ground in my neck of the woods ;o)

However, I think there is certainly a project worth pursuing here, even if in the later stages it be handed over to those with experience in this area... probably an independent such as Ace or Goldmine, Sanctuary or suchlike. In the meantime, I think we could still persevere with the "limited edition" collection, while also trying to interest one of the specialist labels to take on the idea of a Mike Terry compilation for general release. They already have the necessary machinery for untying the legal knots and the distribution for the finished product.

While thinking about doing the whole thing is an exciting idea, I'd suggest it be better in the hands of those who have already done it successfully - and made all the inevitable mistakes already. Also, I doubt that even the whole assembled multitude here could muster the necessary resources, financial and otherwise to carry it through successfully.

Thoughts...?

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:13 pm:

i'll e-mail ady croasdell at kent records.

in my opinion these subjects are for record companies.

soulfuldetroit is here to praise those who made this wonderful music.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:15 pm:

David

Excellent! But if we can help get the wheels turning in the first instance, it's worth trying to do so, even if only for the satisfaction of kick-starting the idea.

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.54 - 205.188.199.54) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:28 pm:

Here how it is done.
If the song is registered to BMI, www.bmi.com and do a search by entering the titles in question. As a lot of song have similar titles, just click on the writers name and it will give the name of the publisher. Click on that and it should give you contact info. Where there are several publishers, the administrating one grants the license. It will say adm. next to the propper one.
At ASCAP, the same applies althouh the procedure is a little different is their archive retrieval.
I am BMI and have been from day one so I am well familiar with the process.
When you write or call the publishing company they will send you a form,fill it out, send it back and that is all there is.
Then the pub. company gets paid and forwards 50% to the writer/writers. The performance royalties, i.e. radio and t.v.airplay etc. goes directly to each participant sraight from BMI or ASCAP.
There is also SESAC, but it primarily for Gospel and is rarely used these days.
I hope that clarified things a bit. No permission is needed from anyone , because it is an automatic thing after the first usage of the song, so any cover thereof would be found money for all involved.
Also, until 1976, the mechanical rate,i.e. the percentage paid to the publisher/writer was 2 cents per song, divied up by acording their respective percentages of the song.
After 1976 it was 2 and a half%.
It goes up every year or so and now it is 8 cents a song. So using one million records as a barometer,the money earned from sales would be $80,000 divided by the pparticipants according to their percentages. This is for one song, so if the album has ,say 12 songs ,multiply the amount of songs by $80,000 and it willtell you the earnings based on sales figures.
Airplay is seperate and in the states it is usually 3 or for cents per play on local stations and nationally, a similar figure multiplied by the stations carried on the network.
For a major t v show,it is somewhere around $1500 dollars every time it is performed i.e when Luther V. did my song on Oprah and its reruns as well.
In Britain it is a bit different as there are much less plays so each spin can add up to be several quid.

Thanks , THE LEGAL EAGLE ELI

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:16 pm:

David is right. This forum is not here for the purpose of setting up record deals.I'll keep my mouth shut now.If anything is to come about, arrangements will be made at the proper locations.

By John Lester (213.1.129.43 - 213.1.129.43) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:45 pm:

Look....I see the thinking now...and let us not run before walking...

Why not do it initially amongst close and good friends. Once it's been put together, we can ask Mike Terry what he would like us to do...at least we then have his blessing to take it to the next level. I have a contact at Sequel, Ade Croasdell is bound to be another person who would be interested too.

And Ralph.....don't you dare keep your mouth shut!! LOL

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:54 pm:

I suppose if a small number of CD's are made available to members of the forum as a gift, that wouldn't infringe on any publishing rights. Just as long as no money changes hands.It could be good to get feedback from the forum on how they might feel if this were to become a commercial venture. The forum could act as advisers and give opinions.
John....no need to worry...I'm not one for keeping my mouth shut...just as all my ex-wives.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:57 pm:

TYPO....meant to say just ASK all of my ex-wives. But then.....maybe you better not.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:00 pm:

John

That's exactly what I had in mind. A limited edition would be containable and manageable, whereas trying to go the whole hog could end in no result at all, just a lot of effort and potential disappointment. The whole retail package was not my intention anyway. I'd much rather leave that to the experts, so your two-stage plan fits in exactly with my view.

The first stage (strictly limited edition) is possible, and if the second stage (fully licensed release) doesn't come off, nothing will have been lost apart from a little time.

By John Lester (213.122.202.243 - 213.122.202.243) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:12 pm:

Ralph.....LOL! How many ex-wives have you got?

You sound a bit like my brother who seems to replace his wife for a new model very much like the way he updates his car!!!

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:18 pm:

John

Your brother's a lucky feller. Most of us have to put up with the same old banger year in, year out.


I'm referring to the car - of course.

By Ian W (213.122.83.82 - 213.122.83.82) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:20 pm:

All

I bet if you began the limited edition, then word-of-mouth could start a larger interest! If the contents of the cd were (just!) a few words from Mike Terry, I'd buy one! The chap deserves his dues.

Ian

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:20 pm:

John,
The last time I counted it was four. It's not a number I'm proud of. Life has a way of doing funny things to you at times. Presently I'm single, but I think I have one FINAL marriage left in me when Ms. Right walks through the door. Maybe I need to " hop the pond ' and find me a good old fashioned British babe.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:24 pm:

Ian,
It's the word of mouth factor I'm most interested in. If successful it could precipitate some other projects I have in mind.

By John Lester (213.122.202.243 - 213.122.202.243) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:06 am:

Ralph...How many times have you changed your car!!!

Ritchie......THAT WAS FUNNY...I loved that line...

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:10 am:

Ritchie,
Maybe it's a Detroit thing. You know how much we Detroiters love to buy cars.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:17 am:

Ralph

Yes, I guess "the Motor City" tries to live up to its name. Even my favourite group named themselves after a hubcap!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:27 am:

Ritchie,
I assume you're refering to the Spinners. Yeah, it was a big deal to have spinner hub caps when we were young. Incidentally, when I was a very young musician doing USO shows, we did several shows with the then equally young Spinners.

By acooolcat (211.78.0.219 - 211.78.0.219) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:34 am:

I believe that it's not the publisher that you have to get permission from to release a song - but the record label owner. Royalties via publishing are dealt with from subsequent sales.
I made this mistake before talking to Ady (at Ace/Kent) about a Detroit CD project I'm working on.
I'll have to get back to my honeymoon or this could be one of the shortest marriages ever!
Cheers, Graham

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:34 am:

Ralph

Right on the button! I understand the name was Bobbie's suggestion - he says he was a car-mad teenager. The Spinners' Motown debut is my number one album, bar none... love those harmonies!

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.32 - 205.188.199.32) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:41 am:

TO GRAHAM,I HAVE BEEN IN THE BIZ FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER AND THE RECORD COMPANY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISSUING A MECHANICAL LICENSE, PER SE. THE RECORD COMPANY OR DISTRIBUTING ENTITY, REQUESTS A LICENSE FROM THE ADMINISTRATIVE PUBLISHER FOR THE USAGE OF THE SONG FOR COMMERCIAL DISTRIBUTION, SO THEY COULD DIRECT ALL MONIES DERIVED FROM SALES TO THEIR RESPECTIVE
CREATORS OF THE COMPOSITION.
THIS SHOULD NOT APPLY IF IT IS ONLY FOR OUR USAGE

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 06:32 pm:

more mt arrangements:-
as long as the feeling is there-fantastic 4-ric tic
i just don't believe it-ruby andrew-zodiac

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 09:07 am:

Just seen this one on the net:

Sonny Allen - your love was so wonderful -(HitPack) arr, by Mike Terry

By John Lester (213.122.197.61 - 213.122.197.61) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 11:21 am:

David.....this listing of Mike Terry tracks...would it be possible for me to have a copy...I can't seem to copy the forum listings and so I need to type them all from scratch.

There is very little on what Mike Terry was on at Motown...something that I am very keen to know.

Anyway, where have we got to and what do we all have to do.....I want to see this progress....I am not sure you have the same saying in the north but we say..who's holding the monkey...meaning, who has to do the next bit of work..so who has the monkey at the moment?

By Carl Dixon (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 11:56 am:

John

Right mouse click over the writing, then click copy, and then paste into Word or something(it will turn the background white and the writing blue).

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 12:07 pm:

John

Blummin' 'eck! Wi doant 'ave sayin's like that 'ere in t'North... "Oo's 'oldin' t'monkiy?"

But seriously, folks.. Yes, I agree. I know it's difficult, trying to arrange something "by committee", but I would suggest that the first stage be to assemble a workable tracklisting of 27 - 30 titles. (27 being the optimal number for a single CD, with 2-3 additional titles to be included only if disc space permits.)

By "workable" I mean tracks which we have actual access to - i.e. somebody has a copy, which they can supply in some useable form, as I outlined earlier. I don't seriously expect everyone to have advanced recording facilities, so any useable format could be considered, to avoid anyone having to risk losing valuable vinyl.

By Clay McMurray (66.73.181.16 - 66.73.181.16) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:38 pm:

You might want to try and create an mp3 or wave file and attach it to e-mail for friendly,select distribution. Or send me a completed wave or mp3 file and I can dump it to pro-tools and create a CD master. Just a thought.

By phillysoulman (152.163.206.214 - 152.163.206.214) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 04:48 pm:

John.

From the inception of Motown, thru 1966, any time that you heard a baritone sax solo,i.e. "I can't help myself", I hear a symphony"," My world is empty..." " This old heart of mine" etc.,
it was Mike Terry.
He also always in the horn section of every Motown record that ther was at this time, and he can be heard prominantly on " Shop Around".
Mike practically reinvented the application of the baritone sax. Whoever played on "War", took a lesson from the Mike Terry textbook of soul, although Mike would have had much better intonation and meter.

By John Lester (213.122.194.200 - 213.122.194.200) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 09:42 pm:

Thanks Bobby.....regardless of what I heard before, what you said carries much more weight when I hear it from you.

....it's a shame Mike is not using his talents in the current day.

By phillysoulman (205.188.192.177 - 205.188.192.177) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 10:56 pm:

We all are waiting for that wonderful morning when Mike takes the bari out of retirement and once again shares his magic dust with all who love him. I am jonesing to be in the control room to witness firsthand, a "new" classic Mike Terry baritone sax solo.
I would love to help continue the legacy and "bring in the funk" back to the studio, recorded in the propper manner , of course.
Food and drink would have to be ordered in complete with ketchup stains dripping on to the drum heads and onto the music charts.
One would have to bring roach spray and possibly a mouse trap and some cheap whiskey, or possibly some "Thunderbird " or " Boones Farm" apple wine.
A bag of good weed is also a good idea.

By Ian W (213.122.136.197 - 213.122.136.197) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 11:34 pm:

What about the monkey though?

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 11:44 pm:

That won't be any problem...

One monkey don't stop no show.

By John Lester (213.1.128.65 - 213.1.128.65) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:26 am:

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAH!!!!

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 10:16 am:

Actually, he says if Bobby doesn't mind, he's happy to play rhythm!

By Ian W (213.122.35.238 - 213.122.35.238) on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 11:41 pm:

That looks like a Gibbon Les Paul copy to me!

By phillysoulman (64.12.102.163 - 64.12.102.163) on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 11:53 pm:

Actually Gibson made it in accordance with my specs in mind. The monkey was courtesy of Michael Jackson.

By lenny harkins (212.159.149.203 - 212.159.149.203) on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 06:32 pm:

david , drop me a line and ill try and do you a copy of a taped interview i have of mr. terry.
p.s. i dont think all sax blasts on motown came via mike some came from a guy called" charies lefty edwards"

By phillysoulman (170.115.179.118 - 170.115.179.118) on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 06:41 pm:

Yo Mike,
We need you on the forum!!
B. Eli

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 08:06 pm:

more mike terry magic :-
am i losing you-jimmy delphs-karen1550
hey boy-ruby andrews-zodiac1006
free at last-james barnes & the agents-golden hit
your love was so wonderful-sonny allen-hit pack
keep on walking-the final decisions-gm bumpshops

By Ian W (213.122.176.51 - 213.122.176.51) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 08:56 pm:

Ditto:

Intrepid 75032 - Brothers Of Love - I, You, We (Go Together Perfectly) (Wr. Jesse James/N Keith Prod. Jesse James)
- My Heart's In Trouble (Wr. Jesse James, Prod. same)

All arranged by the man himself!

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 09:23 pm:

thanks ian. would you say intrepid was a detroit label?

possibly chicago?

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.171 - 205.188.199.171) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 10:19 pm:

Intrepid was a short lived division of Mercury records. There were some jazz things on there as well. I will search this old mind o' mine some more.

By Ian W (213.122.126.215 - 213.122.126.215) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:07 pm:

David, another on Intrepid

75014 - Bobby Newton & Tina Blount - Our Love Gets Sweeter Every Day (Wr. & Prod. Jesse James)
- How Can I Thank you enough (ditto)

Again arranged by our hero!

And thanks to another of our intrepid heroes Bobby, we know of the label! Definitely some Detroit links though!

Ian

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.171 - 205.188.199.171) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:15 pm:

Bobby Newton is from Philly.He also had some sides on Atlantic.Gilda Woods, the former wife of Georgie Woods, and who was Brenda and the Tabulations manager and co- owner of Top and Bottom and Dionn records executive produced the Atlantic sides. I remember doing some arranging for these sides but believe it or not I can't remember the names of the songs. One of them had a sort of quasi reggae groove and is forgettable, at the least, but I will once again search my mind for the answer for this one.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:22 pm:

i bought 'a love you can depend on' by brenda & the tabulations when it was made available on import in this country.

released on top & bottom it is a record that i have always greatly enjoyed.

i think i bought it in london. what was the name of that shop out balham way, john.

i think it's still a record shop.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:28 pm:

David

That's one great record. Remember "Sweet & Easy" by Van McCoy? Sounded like the rhythm track to Brenda & the Tabs' vocal.

By Ian W (62.6.71.211 - 62.6.71.211) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:35 pm:

More Bobby Newton info. I was (I guess) incorrectly told he was a Detroit artist!

Mercury 72894 - Bobby Newton - Do The Whip - again written & produced by Jesse James and arranged by Mike Terry!
- Gravities - Do The Whip (Instr)

Atlantic 2932 - Bobby Newton - There's An Island/A Little Bit Of Soap

Atlantic 2992 - When The World Is At Peace/If You Can't Be My Woman

Don't know the credits on the last two though!

Ian

By phillysoulman (205.188.198.54 - 205.188.198.54) on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 12:53 am:

I believe that Atlantic 2932 is the one that I arranged.
The Jesse James things were recorded at Future Gold which was Jesse's studio and was not far from where Bobby was residing at that time.
The Temprees things that we did and a ton of Red Coach things were also recorded there in the early seventies. I was on those as well!!!
The studio is now Jesse's ministry as he found religion after ripping of so many artistes such as Johmmy C and Cliff Nobles.
The exterior says "Malcolm Auto Parts", as it has always said, in order to disguise itself for obvious reasons.


Eli

By John Lester (213.122.192.145 - 213.122.192.145) on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 07:32 am:

The shop in Balham is called Record Corner.......it is still there and it still devotes itself to soul.

It also sells country and reggae music these days.

I actually work in Balham so I see it most days.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.1.179.232 - 213.1.179.232) on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 09:01 am:

thank you john. it is a small world.

By Ian W (213.123.47.180 - 213.123.47.180) on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 10:44 pm:

And thank you Bobby. I learn something everyday!