By Jan (195.38.31.162 - 195.38.31.162) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 09:22 am:

Hi, first time poster based in Poland but from UK

One of the first motown records I danced to was Festival Time by the San Remo Strings, a minor UK hit on Tamla Motown label. I owned ( perhaps still own in an attic somewhere ) it on a compiliation called ' Motown Memories ' , one of the first ' northern' compiliations I think.

Also had the best ever version of This Ole Heart of Mine by Tammi Terrell on it. All the tracks ran into one another as if it was playing in a club.

Anyway - Festival Time has ingrained itself on the soundtrack of my adolescence, but I know very little about the record ( didn't read about music in those days ) apart from the fact that it was probably a Golden World recording.

I also regret that it has never been re-released in a modern format - all my vinyl is stacked away at ex-wives and parents attics. A lot of good stuff coming out these days, Connosieur etc. - wish someone would chuck Festival Time on one and a million memories would flow back to me.

Love some more information if anyone can help.

( by the way - this Board is a revelation )

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 10:13 am:

Hi Jan - actually you can find the SRS Festival Time on the CD reissue of Motown Chartbusters vol 7. (Cat # Polygram/Spectrum 5542942)
That Motown Memories - 16 Non Stop Hits was a great album - I used to have it many moons ago when it was a new release! About the only time Martha's Third Finger Left Hand has been on album, I think! --cheers - Ritchie

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.7.127.125 - 62.7.127.125) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 11:44 am:

special welcome to jan.

the 2 records you mention have also meant a lot to me over the last 3 decades (fightening that!)

i remember sending away to selecta disc(?) for the 45 which became available on gordy.

perhaps graham can throw light on the group which sounds kind of detroit symphony orchestra. something mentioned about them already on here i think. (use the search fuction on the left).

apparently golden world was one of the best studios for strings. ralph could fill us in on that.

also welcome to ritchie who runs one of the friendliest chat rooms on the web in 'soulsville uk'. i've lurked on that site for about 6 months and will do the decent thing very shortly.

you can reach ritchie through our connections page 'ritchie's cellarful of soul'. some nice scans of ads from sixties detroit on there courtesy graham.

also a very interesting webisode on the tempts and johnnie mae.

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.7.112.172 - 62.7.112.172) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 01:22 pm:

yes, see graham's (acooolcat) posting on 21st november, under tera shirma strings.

By Jan (195.38.31.162 - 195.38.31.162) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 01:42 pm:

Thanks for the Chartbusters 7 tip Ritchie - so simple if you know where to look. They may EVEN stock that in Warsaw - which would be a turn up.

I also bought Motown Memories on it's original release, believe there was a follow up called 'Ric Tic relics' , anyone else remember that ?

Thanks also David.

By Carl Dixon (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 02:07 pm:

First time in the forum -

Hi jan - I have a vinyl copy of Ric Tic relics! I bought it in 1975, I think, after hearing 'Ooh! Prett Lady' by 'Al Kent'in my local disco. The dj tried to sell me an import single from the States for about £3.00. I paid £2.75 for the album and bought it in Hull/England.This was the first time I was aware of the connections between Ric Tic and Motown. Great name for a record label and just wonderful that things like 'Headline News' and 'SOS' are stilled reveared as Motown classics. For Xmas I received a Motown CD with one of my favourite Ric Tic tracks on called 'Can't stop looking for my Baby' by The Fantastic Four which was also on that album. It's a great track and good to see someone somewhere has not discounted it for CD release. I have never heard it played in any club, ever!

Thanks

Carl Dixon London

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.80.117 - 213.122.80.117) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 03:10 pm:

hi carl

yes ric tic is a great name for a record label. i often wonder where it was derived from.

there seems to be some connection with new york city which makes me wonder if ed wingate bought it from someone.

as for 'can't stop looking for my baby'...yes it's a great track as is their entire album which i have on vinyl and cd. it's called Fantastic 4.

beautiful music.

btw i'm hoping that edwin will be seeing the site next week via his agent.

By Ralph Terraa (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 03:23 pm:

David,
Once Motown acquired Golden World, all string and horn sessions were done there. It was great for strings because it was a large open room. Plus there was just more room for the musicians to sit. Studio A must have been a little tight.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 04:50 pm:

Hi Guys - yeah, Ric Tic Relics - remember it well. The only thing that spoiled it for me was the godawful fake stereo EMI used to inflict on us - sounded like JJ Barnes was singing into an old iron bathtub! ((David)) thanks for the nice comments, and please do come and join us at SoulsvilleUK. Few more members will get us higher in the popularity stakes! PS - why the hell is there a Hearsay club in Yahoo's Soul/R&B section? If they're R&B, God help us!!

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 06:22 pm:

Ritchie

I agree about the J J Barnes Track. It sounds like a phasing taking place somewhere when it was 'enhanced' and mastered. I have never heard any other version apart from my trusty LP version so I cannot compare. I know that I treasure the album and was offered £30 for it about 6 years ago from a London DJ. I did not sell and would not for any amount of money. It is part of my dna strand from my early twenties and has helped me learn what little I do know about Motown and other activities in Detroit.

Thanks/Carl Dixon

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 08:39 pm:

David

is 'Goddess of Love' on that Fantastic Four CD? If it is I must seek it out. I bought the Ric Tic single in Milton Keynes flea market about 8 years ago along with 'The way you've been acting Lately by 'Al Kent' and yes, the Ric Tic single of 'Ooh! Pretty Lady'! They were brand new. The seller had personally been to Detroit and bought 2 suitcases of Ric Tic stuff back with him. The taxi driver in Detroit said to him he should not go to 'that' address in Detroit as it was not like it used to be. He had such conviction and went. I am pleased he did. I knew he loved his soul records and I was happy to 'pay the price', which was excellent value for money for an original version.

Thanks Carl Dixon

By Dave Rimmer (213.122.198.180 - 213.122.198.180) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 09:02 pm:

It will probably interest you guys to know that Jo Wallace is in the process of compiling a CD of Ric-Tic and Golden World tracks for the Spectrum label.

Dave Rimmer

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 09:13 pm:

Hey - ABOUT TIME TOO!!!!
Only twenty years or so overdue. Still, they'd better do it before the master tapes disintegrate!

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 09:37 pm:

carl

if the taxi driver saw where me and graham were at 10 o'clock at night, every night, he would have shook his head off!

if i had to go anywhere on holiday tomorrow, it would be detroit.

a city steeped in musical history. sensational!

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 09:39 pm:

btw 'goddess of love' is on the cd. same album cover as the vinyl version.

fantastic music.

By Dave Moore (193.165.192.137 - 193.165.192.137) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 09:42 pm:

Hi Guys,
Haven't posted anything for a while, but have been paying attention still!! The Terra Shirma episodes are fantastic. Congrats to all. RIC TIC. For me Ric Tic and Golden World are the two archetypal Detroit labels. The reason being they copied, plaugerised and eventually produced their own version of the successful 'Motown Sound'. The politics of the buy out, Berry's use of the studio and the way the the likes of Geoge Clinton etc developed is imbeded in the history of Detroit Soul like DNA. I am a potential completist of both labels and if anyone can help me find a copy of Dickie and the Ebbtides on a Golden World white demo I would be exremely grateful.

Regards,

Dave

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 10:02 pm:

I look forward to the Ric Tic CD. Spectrum, whoever they are,seem very good at re-marketing this stuff and I think they should include extensive sleeve notes and charge a little extra. I know I would certainly pay it. Would I be right in saying anybody buying a compilation like this would appreciate memorabilia included and be happy too? Is this company aware of this web site and how this is a great advertisement for them? With the information that I have read over the last few days of visiting this site, my knowledge has improved 100% about Motown and labels I have never even heard of. I am sure more stories are due! I work in the television business and I honestly say there is not much I care to watch on tv. However, this forum is the most interesting 'Discovery' Channel one could wish for, for this type of thing. I do hope I have not deviated too far from the 'San Remo Strings'.

Thanks/Carl Dixon

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 10:30 pm:

Forgive my ignorance, but who is the Jo Wallace who's compiling the CD?

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 10:38 pm:

David

When you were in Detroit, did you go on the fantastic river trip that is available? Also,to the museum, which has the little Detroit street downstairs/underground. There is great information there about that last department store that was torn down in the city. If you meet a taxi driver called 'Lucky' - he is great!! He took us on a tour of the city because he had no work and dropped and picked us up all over the place. I think Detroit will benefit from the casino's, love them or loath them. I felt very at home there. I to, could have stayed longer than I did. Sadly (ha ha) we had to go to Chicago, next and meet a local man in the hotel reception who was not aware that Curtis Mayfield recorded in the city!!

thanks/Carl 'sorry to stray' Dixon

By John Lester (213.1.128.102 - 213.1.128.102) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 12:13 am:

Jo Wallace was the lady (I am told by Rixy) who compiled Soul Satisfaction 02.

Spectrum's contain about 18 tracks and mid-price will contain more.

Good luck to the one doing the sleeve notes on this Ric Tic compilation....it is gonna have to stand up to some close scrutiny from this forum, that is for sure.....

By John Lester (213.1.128.102 - 213.1.128.102) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 12:41 am:

A message to Ritchie

The tapes are being well cared for.......have no fears!

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 05:18 am:

Hi Jan,
I'll stick my 2 cents worth in - The San Remo Strings were Detroit Symphony guys and I guess you now realise it was a Golden World/Ric-Tic recording that Berry re-issued on his Gordy label once he'd bought out Ed Wingate. The same applies to the Fantastic Four's "I Love You Madly" (Soul label). Oddly enough the Gordy re-issue is more valuable than the original Ric-Tic one; it's rarer.
Have you heard the vocal version - "To Win Your Heart" - by Laura Lee? It was also released on the Ric-Tic label and is a great record too.
I'm sure The Fantastic Four's "Can't Stop Looking..." is played in UK clubs; it's the most valuable 45 on the Ric-Tic label. I once found a copy in Detoit that had been signed by Sweet James Epps - (lead singer) - and when I met him he told me it was his original copy that he'd given to his girlfriend at the time; I gave it back to him. "Goddess Of Love" - was issued twice on Ric-Tic and I think Ritchie has the full label listing on his site.
Dave - Do you have Patti Gilson on GW? I have a copy if you're interested.
Cheeers, Graham

By John Lester (213.122.192.102 - 213.122.192.102) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 07:53 am:

Is that the Pulling Petals song, that amazed me more for the title..

Have we ever confirmed the Ed Wingate story on never using a catalogue number with 13 in it

By John Lester (213.122.192.102 - 213.122.192.102) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 08:24 am:

Graham.

Your offer of the Patti Gilson 45 to Dave - could I take that to mean that it is intended that this Ric Tic compilation MIGHT be dubbed from 45's.

If that is correct, tell me cos I shall create MERRY HELL!!! There is NO need for any 45 dubbing......and as an aside, I would just mention that ACE issued the years older track from Jimmy Ruffin's "Don't Feel Sorry For Me" which was taken from the original master session for that Birth of Soul collection.

Those Ric Tic, Golden World tracks are all being properly cared for..

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 08:32 am:

((Graham)) - yes, the Golden World + Ric Tic listing is on my site at http://www.ritchie-hardin.com/soul/detroit4.html
((John)) thanks for the reassurance. OK, a little query: is there a stereo master of Festival Time WITHOUT the drop-out? If not, wouldn't now be a good time to repair it? (I did it in two minutes!) Not meaning to sound cynical, I suspect the tracklisting of the GW/Ric Tic CD will learn towards the obvious - concentrating on the better-known titles to make it more marketable - (and probably less hassle, rights-wise.) But, I bet the archaeologists among us will probably have everything that's on offer already.
Technical point: I hope the masters don't suffer too much from the digital remastering. I personally don't go for CEDAR-type noise reduction - too much coloration of the sound for me. I've heard it on the PolyGram compilations, and the occasional Goldmine CD. (Personally, I think my own transfers are better than Goldmine's - but that may not be saying much!) Anyway, this isn't a tecchie forum, so I'll shut up now ;o)

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 08:36 am:

Oh, forgot to say - Laura's To Win Your Heart - vocal of Festival Time - is one of my all-time Detroit favourites. (For what my opinion's worth!) PS - there's no drop-out on that.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 09:34 am:

Just a thought re the origin of the name Ric Tic.... has anyone asked Edwin Starr? He's claimed in interview that the label was originally set up specifically for him. Maybe he could shed some light on it?

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 09:52 am:

Has anyone heard of 'Shades Down' by the Detroit Emeralds? It is an instrumental on the Ric Tic label. I picked it up for only 10p in 1975 from Hull Market. It was worn out then. Would love that to be available on the compilation CD too.
I remember making a soul tape up for a lady, wait for it, working in a vegetable shop in Milton Keynes years ago. At the end of side one I faded out with 'Finders Keepers' the flip side of 'Ooh! Pretty Lady' by Al Kent - as I had only just bought it and thought it was great.I would swear that Jamerson was on bass because it danced up and down the frets typical of him. The next day she almost ran when she saw me approach the shop and asked what the fade out track was on side one, because they always used to play it in the disco up North, where she was from. I think that should be on CD too, it is excelent music. I've just taken a peep at my 'Girl in the candy Store' by The Reflections on Golden World - I love it!

I guess 'soulfuldetroit' should do the sleeve notes for this CD compilation.

I also hate 45 dubbing of records too. There are a couple of tracks that keep cropping up and they have been shortened too, so they probably fit on the CD comps. 'Love Love Love' by Bobby Hebb and 'I'll do anything' by Doris Troy. I know they are not Detroit based, but I would hate to think that a compromised 'refrain' fade out would be considered to fit the tracks on the CD of any of this type of material. It was bad enough with the UK 'My Girl'/Temps - Tamla Motown version compared to the import I got my hands on. I know 4 seconds is not a long time, but when it is David Ruffin pleading!!!

thanks
Carl Dixon

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 10:10 am:

Talking of the Reflections - their B-side goodie Comin' At You is another Golden World favourite of mine. I know it's stretching the Soul part of "Northern Soul" a little, but it WAS played a hell of a lot around 71-72 in my old neck of the woods (Bury, just north of Manchester).
PS - like I said earlier, I wouldn't hope for too many mega-rarities on the coming CD. 18 tracks doesn't give much scope for deep digging in the vaults :o(

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.213.10 - 213.122.213.10) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 11:00 am:

carl

the closest i got to the water was over at belle isle.

it's lovely over there.

great views back to the city.

didn't realise you had been to detroit.

btw please tell the forum about your encounter with berry gordy. john lester might just fall off his seat ... again!

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 02:02 pm:

I don't have anything to do with the CD - I was simply offering Patti Gilson as a label filler. A lot of those early, yellow label, Golden World recordings were actually done in New York and I guess Patti's is one of them. I know Willie Kendrick's 45 was, and so were a lot of The Reflections records.
Graham

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 03:04 pm:

David

Yes, I have been to Detroit. A couple of years ago we did Philly and dropped into Sigma Sound, New York, Toronto then into Detroit and finally Chicago. The Detroit visit was purely to go the Motown museum complex. Secretly, I had planned with the staff, to propose to my girlfriend there, just after I kissed that snakepit floor that I promised I would do at some stage in my life! They supplied flowers and made it such a special day for us. They honestly made us feel like celebrties. I know there were tears from certain staff as I kneeled and read through my words I had written. Then we were invited to have the snakepit all for our selves - amazing. I looked around and imagined what would have gone on there all those years ago and how what did, affected so many peoples lives, including mine. Well worth the visit to the city and I would go again. As English people, we were made so welcome by everybody and everywhere we went in the city.

Yes, I was honoured to meet Mr. Gordy at our studios, here in London. We were pre recording a programme called the 'Book Show' for later transmission on our Sky News channel. I had overheard,whilst I was the vt op on the previous weeks programme, that he was due to visit Sky to talk about his new book. I had received that for Xmas only weeks before and was on the last chapter. So I volunteered to work on the programme as vt op again. I introduced myself to him in the green room and we chatted. He saw I had his book and signed it for me with a special message. He also saw the 'Standing in the shadows of Motown' Jamerson bass line book I had to. The reason I brought that was because I had correspondance with 'Dr.Licks' about where else and what else Jamerson had played on in Detroit in the sixties. Jamerson is one of my musical heros and that's another story. Dr Licks had contacted Jamersons wife for me and wrote back!!! I wanted to let Mr Gordy know that as fans, we study Motown, the music and everything connected with it as well as buying merchandise, books and the like. Even though recording had ceased in Detroit many years ago, we still consider the genre of music 'current' and of extreme interest to us. I mentioned briefly to Mr Gordy, 'Ric Tic' as further proof that I was a fan, rather than just a television operator, and he smiled! It was a great day for me and for Sky to have him join us and talk about his book.

Incidentaly, whilst in Sigma,Philadelphia on this trip I was looking at all the gold records on the wall there and reading the artists and titles out loudly. I apologised to the smartly looking gentleman sat in the corner waiting to go in and do a session - maybe. I mentioned that I, along with hundreds of other people in the UK, acknowledge tremendously the recordings from the States during the sixties and hold them with high regard. I spoke to him about one of my favourite songs that I had purchased the sheet music in 1974 and tried to go to PIR in Philly to get Leon Huff to autograph it for me. He could not beleive it. He then asked me 'what was the name of the song?' I told him it was 'At the top of the Stairs' by a group called 'The Formations', thinking he would have never heard of them. He said 'I know the song, I sang on it - I am one of The Formations'. He was the 'Turner' from the writing partnership of Aiken/Bellmon/Drayton/Turner and had written 'Gang war, just don't make no sense' by The Corner Boys, who were indeed The Formations too as well as Unsilent Majority, just to confuse things. He told me things about the group and that he had wrote 'Don't let the Green Grass fool you' for Wilson Picket. We even spoke about the groups harmonies and how they were so young when they recorded it in 1967 and how they were told to go home and practice a little more before they came back to the studio! I also learnt it was recorded in Philadelphia and not New York where I had previously thought. That too was a magic day.

I think I'll take a short break now!

Thanks
Carl Dixon

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 03:57 pm:

Carl - thanks for sharing that with us - wonderful memories. I used to work in the TV industry (as a floor manager), and saw many so called "stars" come and go with little interest. I guess my greatest joy was getting to meet Johnny Bristol and spending a delightful hour chatting to him over the dinner break. He was astonished to discover that the guy with the headphones and clipboard knew so much about his music, and it was a real pleasure to talk about his Motown years. Sadly, we then had to break off the chat and go off to make a TV show! Even more sadly, my assistant dropped my camera with the picture of the two of us later that night, so my "proof" was gone forever!

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 04:28 pm:

Ritchie

I understand. The artists are amazed at the loyalty of the fans here when they are approached out the blue sometimes. Nothing better than a good camera man. When I met Edwin Starr at Wembley a few years ago, back stage with one of our reporters, Fiona Phillips (she got me the tickets),they lined their camera up on me talking to him and asking him all these Motown questions, then, unbeknown to me, they rewound the tape and went over the top of it!

Thanks
Carl Dixon

By John Lester (213.122.194.49 - 213.122.194.49) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 10:15 am:

Meeting Berry Gordy - wow - I am catching flies still....mouth wide open..

Harry Weinger told me he's real short.....and always surrounded by lots of people......BG gave Harry a personal thumbs up for what he is acheiving with the back catalogue. Notwithstanding it was deserved, it was still nice of him to say it to him.

Ralph...did you have much in the way of dealings with BG?

I think I mentioned before that my idol is Hank Cosby....do you hear anything of him these days, it would hurt me greatly to find out he thinks his contribution to music is ignored, cos it ain't by me.

By Dave Moore (193.165.192.160 - 193.165.192.160) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 11:34 am:

Hi Graham,

Is the Patti Gilson a Demo. I am trying to complete Ric Tic, Golden World, Impact, Reviltot on White Demos where applicable. If it is a white copy I would definitely appreciate it. I can be reached at davemoor.sky.cz

i noticed in the GW listing there is no mention of Sue Perrin - Put a ring on my finger. I have a white Demo of this on an older looking label (Golden World). I think the cat no is 1001. (Unfortunately my record are not with me). Any info?

Regards,

Dave

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 02:52 pm:

John,
I never dealt with Berry that much. The years I was at Motown he was for the most part in L.A.. My brother would be the guy to talk to in this department. He and Berry worked together on many projects. As my brother mentioned in some post, he and Berry had this competitive relationship. Many times Berry would call my brother from bed in the mornng. My brother, still in bed also, would have a morning meeting with Berry. Berry would ask him what he wanted to do in the studio that day. And this is how they set their day up. There was the time they were trying to get a Jackson 5 album out. ( don't remember which one ) They were working brutal hours to meet a deadline.
Russ had told his wife when he finished the album they would get away for a few days. The album gets completed and Russ and his wife get out of town. While driving home from their trip Russ hears a cut off the album on the car radio.He's appaled at how bad it sounds and mentions to his wife that he really MUST have been tired. When he returns to L.A. he calls Berry to tell him he thinks the album mix sucks. Berry has the entire distribution called back so Russ could re-mix the album.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 03:01 pm:

John,
Hank Cosby.What a great, talented guy. He had so much energy. Hank was a pretty big guy and he talked real fast. You had to be on your toes to keep up with him. My favorite Hank Cosby story...and Ritchie you will appreciate this ...Motown had gone to 16 track. With 8 track recording ALL tracks were used. With the process of " bouncing " or " ping ponging " they were used more than once. Well after the first completed session Hank has done 16 track, he is sitting in his office looking at the studio log and marveling at the fact that there is STILL one track open.

By John Lester (213.1.130.227 - 213.1.130.227) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

Ralph....I hope Hank knows he's still loved...

It brings tears to my eyes wondering that he might be alone, thinking no one cares. Georgia Ward was once his secretary and she has only recently retired.

Harry W wanted to get Hank involved in the Breaking Through CD issue for the 4 Tops and I know Harry tried, even if it was as a favout to me.....but no such luck.

Any idea where the man is hiding these days. If you ever talk to him, tell him I care.

I would love to know the artist or track for that story Ralph.

By john Lester (213.1.130.227 - 213.1.130.227) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 03:36 pm:

I am surprised that Berry didn't pick up the fact that the J5 album mix was bad himself....

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 03:42 pm:

Ralph - yes, I appreciated that! Out of interest, when did they go up to 16-track? They were pretty early using 8-track in late '64 - especially if you bear in mind the fact that "Sergeant Pepper" was recorded on 4-track!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:00 pm:

John,
i haven't talked with Hank in years. I would love to know if he is still around.
Wish
I could tell you the track, but I can't. Just like you Northern Soul dudes to want this type of information.And knowing you....you'll get it!!! Like I said before john...you guys scare me.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:06 pm:

John,
Who knows why Berry didn't pick up on it. Maybe he was satisfied with it. As I mentioned, he and Russ had this competeitive thing, so if Russ told him he could do better, he gave him the opportunity.Georgia Ward retired huh?
She is SO cool. Was at Motown forever.I last so her maybe 20 years ago when I was visiting Motown in L.A.

By Ralph Terana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:10 pm:

Ritchie,
I think Motown went 16 track around 1969. Russ might know better. Yeah Sergeant Pepper is proof positive what can be accomplished wth careful, thoughtful use of what you have in the studio.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:21 pm:

Ralph - thanks. My best guess was about '68. Seems to me there was perhaps a little more separation in the instruments (indicating more individual sources to pan in the mix) in some 1968 releases, but that's just a guess. (What do I know?!) ;o)

By John Lester (213.1.128.51 - 213.1.128.51) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:28 pm:

Ralph...I think its an honour to be called a Northern soul guy.....but I am not sure the true guys who live up in the North of the UK will allow it...you see I live in the south..actually the City of London...I can almost see St Pauls Cathedral from my apartment....all these years I have had to read about what goes on in places like Manchester...I wish I had been born there..

BUT....enuff of this wishing and hoping....this is for the technical lads.....(and that seems to be the 3 R's...Ralph, Russ and Ritchie!!! sorry couldn't resist that)..check out the DM references on the Motown 45's and you will see a change in the tape references....

NLV-096305 - Needle In A Haystack
NLI-L-145210 A Bird In The Hand (Is Worth Two In The Bush)
HLV-330M10 Reflections

When BG put "Its What's In The Grooves That Count" he meant it...all the info you want is in the grooves...right down to where the track was filed.....all you gotta do is put it all together

The Hot Wax and Invictus filing system is not so easy to trace through and its only after my research with Sequel that I found out that HDH were not very organised (that's an understatement but there you are....the word "MESS" comes to mind). This explains why when HDH re-issued tracks in the 90's on CD, they didn't have the first idea where to find the original mixes of the songs that had been issued before and that is why different mixes/words appeared. If you check out the HDH CD, even the titles were not as originally issued!!!

By acooolcat (211.78.0.219 - 211.78.0.219) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:38 pm:

Sue Perrin "Put A Ring On My Finger" is GW cat # is 1001, the first on the label. There were a total of 8 releases on this early G/W - R/T label. They were probably done in New York as I think Leonard Reed (arranger) worked at the Appolo.
I tried to track Sue down recently and contacted a woman in Saginaw, but it turned out to be a different Sue Perrin! Sue is the one link between the original Golden World series and the more familiar yellow label recordings from Mr. Ed Wingate. I'd love to hear from anyone who knows where I can find her.
My Patti Gilson 45 has a "promo copy" sticker on the yellow label - so I guess they didn't press up any white ones.
I'm not sure what all this has got to do with the San Remo Golden Strings though!
Cheers, Graham

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:45 pm:

John - being a "Northern Soul guy" depends more on where your heart is, not where your feet are planted. As a lad born in Bury, just north of Manchester, I think I can speak from experience (as I sit here in darkest Lincolnshire) ;o)
PS - I won't even mention where Graham lives!

By John Lester (213.1.128.51 - 213.1.128.51) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 05:17 pm:

I can't seem find this Patti Gilson 45..does it say Golden World on the label...I seem to recall Joyce Webb being Golden World but saying Ric Tic or is it the other way round.

I wonder if rixy has borrowed my copy. Hmmmm..

Graham ...what is on the flip... is it Pulling petals?

By acooolcat (211.78.0.219 - 211.78.0.219) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 05:35 pm:

Patti Gilson "Pulling Petals (From A Daisy) b/w
Don't You Tell Me A Lie. Cat # GW 6 and GW 7. It's on the familiar yellow Golden World label.
The Joyce Webb 45 is one of the earlier "Golden World" series - I can't remember if mine is on Ric-Tic or GW, but think it has an orange label - it's over in Windsor too. I have it listed as GW 1003/4.
Graham

By John Lester (213.1.128.51 - 213.1.128.51) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 05:55 pm:

Still can't find it Graham but thanks for your help...

Now where is that boy Rixy?