By Lowell (199.174.183.174 - 199.174.183.174) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 02:53 am:| By Lowell (199.174.183.174 - 199.174.183.174) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 02:53 am: |
Congratulations and thanks to Ralph Terrana for his contribution to the newly launched Tera Shirma Story. Be sure to visit the home page of SoulfulDetroit.com to begin the first leg of this serialized tour written by Ralph Terrana with an introduction by David and graphics and webbing by yours truly. Enjoy and be sure to bring your thoughts and memories here to the forum.
| By John Lester (213.122.191.162 - 213.122.191.162) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 04:48 am: |
I thoroughly enjoyed that little tour....
Well done.
Some really great pictures there......
RALPH..the book - when will it be ready!!
Tee hee
| By phillysoulman (64.12.105.29 - 64.12.105.29) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 06:27 pm: |
I TRULY ENJOYED PART ONE OF THE STORY. SOME REALLY CLASSIC PHOTOS. IT KIND OF BRINGS BACK MY FORMATIVE YEARS WITH THE PHILLY CREW.
IM ANXIOUSLY LOOKING FORWARD TO PART TWO.
CHEERS !!!! BOBBY ELI
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 07:14 pm: |
Bobby,
I'm sure we had a lot in common in those years.The memories sure are powerful.
John ...If I ever do write the book, you will get the first copy.
| By Dave Moore (172.141.219.61 - 172.141.219.61) on Monday, December 24, 2001 - 03:07 am: |
Ralph, Dave and Lowell,
As usual your presentation of the Terra Shirma story is top notch. Your site is becoming a must see on a daily basis. Congratulations on the latest project, I look forward to the instalments like a kid in a candy store! When you put all this down in a book, put me down for the first order.
Many Thanks,
Dave
| By Lowell (199.174.182.72 - 199.174.182.72) on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 03:18 pm: |
The Tera Shirma story continues. In the second part of the story visitors get their first view inside Tera Shirma and meet key personalities as operations at the legendary recording studio begin.
The Tera Shirma Story Part 2
| By phillysoulman (152.163.204.48 - 152.163.204.48) on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 04:19 pm: |
TRULY FANTASTIC!!!! I HAVE NEVER VISITED STUDIO A SO THIS WAS TRULY EVENTFUL FOR ME.
I CANT WAIT TO SEE THE STUDIO B PHOTOS TO BRING BACK MEMORIES OF HOW I REMEMBER IT.
GREAT STUFF!!!
BOBBY ELI
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Friday, January 04, 2002 - 03:21 pm: |
thanks bobby.
ralph is currently putting down text on studio b.
all of his pics are well worth the wait.
entire story should have approx 35 pics.
| By Lowell (66.32.122.112 - 66.32.122.112) on Monday, January 07, 2002 - 04:22 pm: |
Part 3 of theTera Shirma Story is online. Join the tour as the fledgling studio struggles to find its wings. More great stories from Ralph! Thanks Ralph.
| By phillysoulman (64.12.102.176 - 64.12.102.176) on Monday, January 07, 2002 - 07:56 pm: |
I CANT SEEM TO GO TO PART 3. IT SAYS " TO BE CONTINUED" AY THE END OF PART 2.
THE LINK BRINGS ME TO THE TOP OF THE ENTIRE STORY.
AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG????
BOBBY ELI
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Monday, January 07, 2002 - 08:15 pm: |
bobby
i've checked this out and everything's ok.
try by clicking thru ralph's opening page...or click on 'looking for a break' which is down the left hand column.
| By Ralph Terana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, January 07, 2002 - 11:52 pm: |
Bobby,
I have had similar problems. I thought maybe it was my web.tv system. Finally it just seems to appear.Computers are still a mysterey to me.
| By Lowell the webgeek (66.32.122.112 - 66.32.122.112) on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 12:52 am: |
Sometimes you need to empty your browser's cache. [Computer speak, sheesh, I know]
Browsers save pages you visit. The next time you hit a webpage that you visited in the past, your browser is *supposed* to go out on the web, look at the modification date of the page you are calling, then compare that with the one it stored in its cache. If the dates are the same, it says, "Cool, I show him the one in the cache because it is the same as the one out on the web and I'll save hime time."
Alas, they sometimes goof up on this. So what you need to do is empty that cache. If you use Internet Explorer, go on your top menu to Tools>Internet Options... On the General tab page you will see Temporary Internet Files. Click Delete Files to clear your cache. Close your browser and reopen it and try the troublesome page again. For Netscape, go to Edit>Preferences, then click on the + by Advanced and then click on Cache, then click Clear Memory Cache. While you are there Clear you Disk Cache too and check the button that says, Every Time, to Document is compared to document on the Network. Again, close the program and reopenit and try again.
One caveat. I understand that some internet service providers [the folks you pay to get online] do a similar caching process to similarly speed delivery of unchanged pages [and save themselves throughput charges!]. If that is the case, you may have to wait a few hours for them to update their cache.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 02:15 am: |
Lowell,
Thanks. You just cleared up a mystery for me. I think WebTV cleans its own caches. That would explain why my saved pages finally " magically " show what I wasn't at first able to see.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 06:43 pm: |
Guys, and Ralph in particular. Just read through - loved it! It has a particular resonance for me - as a guy who left college and walked straight into a job at a small recording studio in Manchester (England). We had an old Brenell 4 track, which used 1/2" tape and was about the size of a large cooker. Used to get about as hot too! The transport was so noisy - every time you went to PLAY, REW or REC it would give an almighty CLANG!
Before the guys invested in a plate reverb we used a converted toilet - its tiled walls were very resonant!
We also had a metal waste bin which we'd have to empty each time it was needed in the studio - it made a brilliant snare!
Anyway, enough of my irrelevant reminiscences. Loved the story, looking forward to more. (I know it'd bore the pants off everyone else here but I'd love to know more technical details!)
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 07:14 pm: |
there's a challenge for you ralph.
we've got a great opportunity for that with studio B pics.
we're still in studio A.
ralph is doing a fantastic job here.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 12:31 am: |
David is right Ritche. We've got some pretty good shots of Studio B's console.What I'd really like to do is try and get Milan Bogdan, it's designer, to come on the forum to talk about it.If not I have some information from a studio brochure that gives some technical information. I will use that.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 08:43 am: |
Hi Ralph - sounds good. I know most people are more interested in the musical side of things, but a bit of info on the technicalities certainly does no harm. I did a not-too-technical piece on "Recording At Motown" on my site, and was amazed at the number of emails I got/still get from people saying they'd never thought about HOW the music was recorded, but they enjoyed finding out. So, go for it!
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 01:42 pm: |
OK Ritchie, we'll get into the technical stuff at the appropriate time. You are absolutely right about most not knowing the process. Hollywood ws never much help either. Their depictions of recording sessions are always such a joke. No wonder most people are clueless.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 03:28 pm: |
Hi Ralph - I'll look fwd to it. I do take your point about Hollywood. According to the movies, every singer apparently recorded their hits Live in the studio with a complete band, and managed to create a finished master in a whole two minutes. (But I guess the mix-down process doesn't have as much dramatic impact!)
| By John Lester (213.122.194.160 - 213.122.194.160) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 10:26 pm: |
Ritchie....can you give me your site address...I dont like to miss out on anything that's Motown related...
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 10:42 pm: |
Hi John - sure! Couldn't have put it better myself ;o) The address is: http://www.ritchie-hardin.com/soul/ Hopefully there will be something of interest! "The Recording at Motown" page can be accessed from the "Detroit" section - a set of pages I suspect you'll make a beeline for anyway! ~ Ritchie
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 12:29 am: |
Ritchie's site is very good John. I've seen it.Nice job Ritchie.
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 10:45 am: |
Ralph - thanks - your comments are appreciated. Did you see the Recording at Motown page? I hope it's not TOO inaccurate!! I did my best with the little info I had available ;o)
| By John theboyfromxtown Lester (213.1.167.81 - 213.1.167.81) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 11:03 am: |
Ritchie...I feel really bad cos I have seen your site before...please forgive me....a lot of work went into that site and I didn't congratulate you at the time....you have done really well.
Can I talk to you about this Andantes saga though.
The backing on Motown records are not listed in house as by THE ANDANTES..they are termed "VOICES" (am I right Ralph or am I not wrong Ralph!!). Anyone who was in the studio at the time would be called in. Promotion men sung on "Two Lovers" when the Love Tones didn't turn up. However, as a general guide, in the early Detroit days, it was GENERALLY the Andantes. Cal Street is on the backing of EVERY Velvelettes record supplementing the Andantes where appropriate. The Andantes/Blacberries/Spinners/Originals and any other singers could have been used and unless you can pick out their individual voices or get the people themselves to confirm that they sung, there is little verification readily available.
Here are some non obvious backing vocals
CP Spencer and the Originals - Paul Peterson's "A Little Bit For Sandy"
Spinners on Shorty Long's Here Comes The Judge
Temptations on Jimmy Ruffin "Stop Leading Me On/Too Busy Thinking About My Baby"
Syreeta on Martha's "Taking My Love"/I Cant Dance/ and the Supes "Begining of the End"
Supremes on Mary Wells' "My Heart Is Like A Clock"
Martha Reeves on Mary Wells "Guarantee for A Lifetime".
4 Tops on the Supes "when The Lovelight" and the one that goes "HAH" in the middle is Eddie Holland.
Temps on Midnight Johnny/Sammy Ward's "Before Its Over"/Tommy Good's "Honey Lane".
Miracles on Frank Wilson's "Til You Were Gone"
Stevie Wonder plays hamonica on a version of the Velvelettes "That's The Reason Why"
And this one has still to be confirmed..Kim Weston doing a background lead vocal on R Dean Taylor's "Lets Go Somewhere" with the Andantes doing the Ooos and the Aaah's and the "Lets Go Somewhere Baby, where people don't go baby.."
The other point to say is that the artists would not know who would be backing. Take a song like, "In The Neighbourhood"....you might know that unissued version by Jimmy Ruffin...well Tommy Good did it too...and so did Ivy Jo Hunter....gawd knows who is used at the end of the day and on which mix..unless you are the producer/engineer.
Hope I am not going on too much here...
On the Tops "Fourever"....one of my goals was to fight like mad to get "Just A Little Love"....Sadly there was a fault with the tape and it couldn't be used. It was issued on Chuck Jackson but that was a different band track. The Tops sung it but so did Marvin Gaye but the multi-track for Marvin did not have the Tops vocal on one of the spare tracks. Harry worked bloody hard to find that Ivy Jo had copied over the Tops version to a multi-track in order to add his own vocal on a separate track..so all you now need to do is put the faders down on Ivy Jo's lead vocal (heartbreaking though that may be) and hey presto...the Northern Soul people are happy!
Anyone still awake...or made it to here!!
Even worse was HDH at those studios owned by our own Ralph!!!!!! The editing and the punching in of one liners was widespread at Invictus and Hot Wax....check out all the versions of Flaming Ember's Westbound No 9......I am convinced that the credited lead vocalist was the one which ended up with the most lines. (Ha ha ha ha..naaah, only joking) BTW, Freda Payne's "Bring The Boys Home" had Detroit Royalty on it in the name of Steve Mancha (JL bows)....but you all knew that didn't you
A revelation to me was when Sandy Wynns aka Edna Wright (JL bows again at the mention of more royalty) talked about punching in with for Motown and she says...."they would get me to sing just one line like...."nothing you can do cos I'm stuck like glue to (punch)" I can't beleive Edna is on "My Guy" but it makes you think, doesn't it!
You can all wake up now! I've finished now
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 11:18 am: |
John - I bow to your superior knowledge. I'll happily remove the relevant page - I have NO desire to perpetuate myths! Basically, I'm just a fan, and I can get it wrong just as easily as anyone else.
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 11:57 am: |
PS - I think you're maybe a little harsh on the subject of punching-in. I think Ralph might possibly agree that punching in lines was pretty commonplace once multitracking became fully established in recording techniques. I realise it probably offends the purists (not aimed at you, John) as Soul records are meant to be sincere "performances" but the principle is no different to the way movies are made, often shot one line of dialogue at a time, then edited into a continuous sequence. BTW, I can remember spending ages once, having to punch in one single word, because the girl kept missing the note!
| By John Lester (213.1.167.81 - 213.1.167.81) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
Ritchie.....please don't do that.....I was only trying to help..now I feel really bad cos I know how hard it is to put these things together...
We all that much wiser now as we all learn things and I will learn more too...that is what it's all about.
I learnt from this episode too...the words "keep your mouth shut" come to mind.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 12:07 pm: |
John - I think everyone else would agree, the day YOU keep your mouth shut will be a very bad day for us in this forum. Your postings are invaluable!
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 01:51 pm: |
yes i agree with that.
john, ady croasdell did a fantastic job on the liner notes of the rca cd's. one of my fav momemts from that is a studio sheet listing who did what on 4 recordings done by the great willie kendicks at united sound.
now the fact that you know of the above leads me to think you have been looking at the equivalent in motown vaults.
do you have any copies? i would love to see even one posted up here.
thanks for sharing the detail.
btw frances nero told me that the originals did backing on 'keep on loving me'.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
In the early days of Motown, whoever was available might be called into the studio for background, handclaps or whatever might be needed.Punching is a fact of life with multi-track recording.Yes Ritchie, I also have spent some time punching in just one word. ( things not shown in Hollywood movie )
| By John Lester (213.1.130.227 - 213.1.130.227) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:01 pm: |
I better ask first before I start doing things like that.
Imagine a thick hard backed book...along the first column is the date and then the song title, then the artist to who the track is assigned with a CHECK LETTER for the producer and then some other temporary tape reference.....inked on might be OD over dubbed, DI dubbed in etc
What you guys want to know is who done what.
Let me tell you of some outrageous ones then..
The Boy from Crosstown was done by the Marvelettes (and re-cut so there are two versions) the Velvelettes, the Supremes and Edwin Starr!!! Only Gladys Knight had the original release!
One HDH track was called "I created a monster"...but discretion forbids me to say who the artist who was assigned to that track...in any case, no one put on a vocal.
Stevie Wonder's "I Want You Back" was originally assigned to THE VELVELETTES.
Thank You Love...also done, and the best ever, on the Elgins.
Stevie Wonder's "Everybody Needs Somebody I Need You" and Martha's "Show Me The Way" both unissued J J Barnes classics...I know these might have even be played up north
Come Into My Palace - Brenda and Patrice Holloway
S-T-E-V-I- E by Patrice Holloway with Stevie
I'll Try Something New...everyone and his dog I think....Liz Lands, Marv Johnson.......
He Was Really Saying Something....Earl Van Dyke and also recut by the Velvelettes in the style of Baby Love.
Man, its knowing that this stuff exists and that I will get to hear it again that keeps me wanting to stay alive for just one more day.....I shall stop breathing when I am told "NO WAY"
| By John Lester (213.1.130.227 - 213.1.130.227) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:03 pm: |
Ralph.....
What songs did YOU sing on that we would not have expected?
Are you on the Stoney and Meatloaf album?
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:14 pm: |
John - stop it for heaven's sake! My mouth's watering so much I'm in danger of shorting out the keyboard!
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:16 pm: |
Here's one for you John...Stoney and Meatloaf's What You See IS What You Get....Betty Osea...head of A&R wanted it for the Supremes. When I heard this I blew my stack and stormed into Harry Balk's office. Harry smoothed me out and assured me it was my call where the song went.I never sang on any of the S&M stuff, but I did play some keyboards...such as Hammond B3 on Heavy As Jesus.
| By The Scary One (213.1.128.51 - 213.1.128.51) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:47 pm: |
SEE......I knew I would squeeze it out of you in the end!!!
I'd Love To Be As Heavy As Jesus was a great one. When that album was re-issued here on Prodigal, they left that and Game Of Love off and replaced them with Stone Heart, Who Is The Leader Of The People and Everything Under The Sun
Now don't you dare move Ralph..not when I got you where I want you.......think of Rustix, We all End Up In Little Boxes....now come on, tell me about the link with What You See Is What You Got.....here's a hint - backing track...there's a reference to the same backing track....come on Ralph, think hard...for me PLEASE
| By acooolcat (211.78.0.219 - 211.78.0.219) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 04:49 pm: |
I once had the pleasure of chatting to Louvaine Demps (spelling?) and she was slightly peeved that The Andantes hadn't been given credit for all the work they did at Motown. What does The Women Of Motown book have to say - I haven't seen it.
Cheers, Graham
| By John Lester (213.1.128.51 - 213.1.128.51) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 05:08 pm: |
That was the correct spelling Graham.
I like to think guys like us are doing our best to make sure she IS getting her dues.
The book is worth buying Graham....its a nice little read....its not expensive from what I can recall....I don't have it to hand at the moment...although to be honest, it IS full of gossipy things As you would expect, La Ross tends to get a bit of a pasting.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 07:26 pm: |
Stone Heart and Leader of the People were produced by Nick Zesses and Dino Fakaris. Everthing Under The Sun was potentally a good song that I produced badly. I'm embarrassed that it got released.
The Rustix...you might have to bring me up to speed here. I believe they were produced by my one time production partner Mike Valvano. Mike had the original track on What You See that he had recorded at some previous time. It wasn't until he played the track for me one day that we decided it was a hot track and the song was written to the track. So maybe Mike used it for The Rustix?? Hmmmmm...I haven't talked to Mike for a few years. I have an old phone number. I'll give it a try. I would love to see him come to the forum. He is a wealth of Motown information. For instance..they say Rare Earth was Motown's first white band......NOPE...Mike Valvano was signed to the label probably around 1960 with his band Mike and the Modifiers.
| By The scary One (213.1.132.206 - 213.1.132.206) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 07:34 pm: |
Ralph....
Mike Valvano..we are mentioning royalty again
And first white group - and what about the Valadiers!!! aka the Latin Counts...
Stone Heart - it says on the album sleeve that you were responsible for that one...it was written by Mike Campbell and Ray MOnette as was Everything Under The sun, Jessica White, she Waits by The window (I really liked that one) and Lady Be Mine.
Tell me what was bad about the way you produced Everything Under The Sun...I am gonna play it now!
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 07:37 pm: |
Hmmm.. Mike & the Modifiers. It always struck me how much I FOUND MYSELF A BRAND NEW BABY sounds like the early Beatles.... or is it actually the other way round?
That single was released here in England in October 1962, just BEFORE the Beatles made their first record for Parlophone. We know John & Paul were into some pretty "obscure" R&B records, and were definitely hooked on the sounds of Detroit. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?!
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 09:05 pm: |
I just talked to Mike. The Valadiers were an all white singing group. Mike and the Modifiers were a band.
As far as the credits on the S&M album...sometimes these repackaging deals get the facts wrong.�Mike re-confirmed for me ..we did not do ..The Way You Do THe Things You Do....It's a compliment to Mike that the Beatles might have gotten their insperation from him....who knows?
Mike is a very talented guy and I'm sure he had things to teach them. He set me back a time or two.
| By John Lester (213.1.165.191 - 213.1.165.191) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 09:14 pm: |
Ralph..
Dont you dare tell Mike that we are a scary lot here....
He's got a lot of questions coming his way..cos I am going have to get the heavy mob involved here....
Hornets, Dave Hamilton,...all will be dragged up now...
I promise we will be gentle with him AT FIRST.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 09:19 pm: |
Scarey,
Everything Under The Sun had a lot of problems. For one...the horns were all wrong. My fault. I told arranger Dave Van DePitte I wanted horns. What I should have told him was I wanted a New Orleans kind of bluesy horn section. Instead I got a marching band. Again, I take the responsibility for NOT sitting down with Dave and be more specific. Also the mix....It's terrible. Neither Russ nor I mixed this song. Also the song was never really finished. I think the horn section took the wind out of my sails and I couldn't figure a way to slip another horn session in for the song. You live,you learn.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 09:20 pm: |
Ralph - just a minor correction to my last posting. The Beatles had just had their first single released - Love Me Do b/w PS I Love You, but had not yet cut Please Please Me when the M&theMs 45 came out. Paul & John had this planned as the follow-up song but saw it as a Roy Orbison-style ballad. Geo Martin suggested they go away and re-think the arrangement. I JUST WONDER......?!
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 09:21 pm: |
Give him hell John
| By The scary one (213.122.204.112 - 213.122.204.112) on Saturday, January 12, 2002 - 11:15 pm: |
hee hee
I will Ralph...just like I seem to do to you....
| By John Lester (213.122.200.205 - 213.122.200.205) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 10:00 am: |
I read this through again this morning...there's a lot we all get through on this site..
I wake up in the morning and dash here..cos I am frightened I might miss something.
Sorry I have been signing off as the scarey one Ralph, I was only teasing you
John Lester aka The Scarey One aka the Boy from Xtown
Tee hee
| By John Lester (213.1.128.47 - 213.1.128.47) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 10:32 am: |
Nobody picked me up on my typing of Stevie Wonder's "I want you back"...it should of course, be "I Want My Baby Back". Edwin's later version was a new band track
Sorry about that folks my fingers were typing 10 to the dozen.
Is there anyway I can print of topics page by page. I file alot of this stuff...particularly Ralph's near-promise to write a book!!! And Ralph, I have filed that in my "pending shortly" file..
HA HA HA HA HA!!
| By Titchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 10:58 am: |
John - good moaning. I clocked the Stevie title but sussed your meaning. Persoanally i nevere have anty prooblems with typing tooo fast. yOu just havev to eb that liottele bit more careufl and everything usuallyturns oiyt perfectly OK.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 02:33 pm: |
John,
It took me a while, but I finally figured out you had a couple of aliases going. I guess one of you wasn't enough to torment me huh? John, more and more the idea of a book keeps coming up. I'm not sure how I would do that yet but I am starting to think about it. I think when the entire Tera Shirma story has been run here there will be enough text for a book. Who knows...maybe David and I will put the book out together.Sort of the Tera Shirma story as told to David Miekle.( David this is all popping out of my head as I write it ) Well anyway...we'll see.
| By John Lester (213.1.165.127 - 213.1.165.127) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 04:43 pm: |
I got it in print that I get the first copy too....AND I want it autographed!!
Well Joe Hunter did it, so did Raymona Gordy, and so can you....we will support you...although I am not sure about Ritchie's typing!! HAHAHAHAHAHA
(only joking Ritchie!_
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 13, 2002 - 05:22 pm: |
You've got yourself a deal John.Autograph and all.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 06:55 pm: |
graham
the 'women of motown' book does not mention andantes.
| By Lowell (66.32.123.101 - 66.32.123.101) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 07:56 am: |
Wow! Has this thread ever grown! And such a rich conversation.
Tera Shirma Part 4 is now launched and I must say how pleased and entertained I am by this unfolding story that Ralph is so skillfully telling. I say unfolding because, even though I am putting this up on the web, I have chosen not read the entire story even though I could.
And I am glad I haven't, because I now find myself wrapped up in the story and wondering what will come next - like the rest of you [except David and Ralph of course]. So do enjoy this week's segment as I have. I headlined it, on this snowy night in the D, "Tera Shirma Blossoms -- On Thin Ice". And you will see why as legends Clay McMurray, Ed Wingate and *the* man Harry Balk skate into the story. Many thanks again to Ralph and David.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 02:26 pm: |
Thanks for the kind words Lowell. I think Thin Ice was my way of life during that time period. Nothing like living on the edge to keep the adrenaline pumping.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 08:36 pm: |
Ralph & Lowell - congratulations on another highly-enjoyable and entertaining instalment. (I just read it) It really would make one helluva book.
| By John Lester (213.122.192.159 - 213.122.192.159) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 08:53 pm: |
I already laid my claim to the first (and autographed) copy!!!!!!!!
| By Dave Moore (193.165.192.179 - 193.165.192.179) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 07:36 pm: |
Ralph, Lowell and Dave,
Once again, congratulations on what is becoming a fantastic project. Please believe me when I say all your efforts are really appreciated by us fans not quite as much 'in the know'. Just the names alone in the segments simply conjure up the magic. Ralph, any pictures of Neica Lee? She sounds intriguing!
Best wishes,
Dave
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 10:02 pm: |
dave
refer to the 'secretarial skills' page on the story.
a classic sixties photo a la sophia loren etc etc.
very beautiful.
i'm glad you're enjoying the story. ralph has been immense.
some great pics next week.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 11:54 pm: |
Dave,
Unfortunately that is the only early pic I had of Neica Lee. She had a fit when I posted it. Her comments...." What the heck am I wearing there ' and " do I see pimples on my face " She made me laugh. Anyway...take it from me Neica Lee was a knockout then and still is today. She and I used to play gin in her office and discuss studio business. She was a great gin player and even though we were probably fairly equal as players, she would tell you that she beat me all the time. I miss those times with her.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 12:11 am: |
Dave,
I'll give you a little more on Neica Lee. Her name is prounouned Neesha. the name Neica is a shortened version of her full name which is Nescatchawana. She was named after a Northern Michigan Indian saint.She really was a very intrigueing woman.
| By NeicaLee (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 08:59 pm: |
Dave,
I did beat Ralph at gin, but you know the male ego. I do hate the picture on the site, (my ego). I am indeed flattered by Ralph's comments though and so I'll let him by with the Gin story.
I can't tell you how much I liked working for and with Ralph. He was enthusiastic, talented and an extremely bright man. Still is. I never had a job that I actually looking forward to going to, as much as my time at Terra Shirma.
It never ceased to amaze me the talent there and the talent that came into the studio.I truly regretted having to leave.
Ralph's recall of those times are so much better then mine but the more I read, the more I remember. As Ralph said, to this day we remain friends and stay in touch so it's fun to get refreshers on the things I am not to sure about. Somethings I remember things he is vague about, but not much.
I'll keep checking in to follow the story's progress.
| By Dave Moore (193.165.192.178 - 193.165.192.178) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 09:18 pm: |
Hi Neica Lee,
It's absolutely fantastic to hear from you and Ralph. The little anecdotes that fill the Terra Shirma story bring it all to life. It must have been exciting just being around such an array of talented people on a daily basis back then. What did you do after this period with Ralph, did you stay around the music business or not? Please rest assured about the picture on the site, you look the epitome of sixties chic and some!.
Best Wishes,
Dave
| By RalphTerrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 09:41 pm: |
Neica Lee...you are so cool baby. It really was something then wasn't it?
Thank you for the nice thoughts. If the truth be known...if you were out sick for a day, or God forbid, on vacation...I would go nuts thinking how in the hell I would run the place without you around.
Neica ...I'm not just going to lie down here on the gin issue.
| By Neicalee (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 10:13 pm: |
Hi to both of you (Ralph & Dave)
(my message twice? )
However to start with Ralph, I think I won every game we played. See how I remember the important things. (smiling)
I did take a lot of vacations, but you did just fine without me there. Of course the bookings and studio I found in chaos, and the receivables piled to the ceiling. You were never great at collecting monies owed,--- and I always missed the studio while I was away.
No Dave, I did not stay in the music business. I married ( a couple of times) and I spent the next several years in a return to NYC. and then Florida. I did however during a short stay in Michgan, collaborate with Mike Theodore and had some lyrics published. Nothing to put claim to my"15 minutes" Thanks for your generous comments about the picture, I am still flattered.
Hold on Ralph, I won every game
| By NeicaLee (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 10:40 pm: |
Ralph,
I have been trying to remember the name of the Pitcher (tigers won the pennant that year, and I am "sports ignorant) who did a session at the studio. Dennis something? and I seem to remember Mitch Ryder doing a session. Am I correct?
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 10:52 pm: |
OK..OK here is how it Really was....
Yes Neica Lee did beat me often at gin. In fact she beat me most times...I have mentioned a time or two that she was rather brilliant...It showed in her handleing a gin hand also. But Neica...EVERY GAME??? Tsk Neica Lee. How you would complain the few times I did beat you. Male ego my A--!
As for everthing else gang...she is being completely factual. The office did become somewhat compromised in her absence.I'm sure when she returned she had her hands full getting things right again.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 11:09 pm: |
Neica,
The pitcher was Denny McLain.He came into record with this band. He was really trying to capitalize on his fame as a Detroit Tiger. He certainly wasn't a great musician. I remember the first time he saw you. He and I were talking by the horn and string rooms and you came walking across the catwalk. I swear I saw his eyes bulge. He also made some sort on inappropriate comment which I did not like.
Yes Mitch came in to record. Do you remember Alex Placido the promotion guy? He was kind of traiing with Milan or Russ to be a recording engineer. I guess he was begining to learn things but it seemed he still had a ways to go.The first time Mitch booked time in the studio, he wanted to do a late night session. Milan and Russ were not available for some reason so I kind of held my breath and put Alex on the session. The next morning Mitch called me at the studio and requested to have Alex for his entire project. Sometimes you win some. Just like in gin sweetie...sometimes I'd win some.
| By John Lester (213.1.130.217 - 213.1.130.217) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 11:15 pm: |
Ralph and Neica Lee
Excuse me for being ignorant, but I don't know this game.....a game of what.
and you two......it's not always about winning, its about taking part.
| By NeicaLee (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 11:24 pm: |
Johh,
It's affectionate banter- the game is Gin Rummy. Somtimes during a session Ralph and I would play this "game" and we loved the challenge. Playing was enjoyable. I think you took our comments about winning too seriously. Studio business always came first, and we almost always agreed on everything in that department. As friends, we love to disagree and still do.
| By NeicaLee (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 11:31 pm: |
Ralph,
So I remember correctly. Dennis played a lousy Organ and was a real pest. Spent every break driving me crazy.
I do remember Alex and I am now recalling the session with Mitch. Okay My Dear, I think I let you win one or two games, as I always do.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 01:01 am: |
John,
As Neica Lee says...it's all affectionate banter and the studio did come first in all matters between us.I think our gin games were designed to help us relax and have fun while we dealt with studio issues.
Neica....I remember Bob Talbert from the Detroit Free Press reviewed Denny's album when it came out and made some disparaging remark about the capability of the Tera Shirma engineers because Denny's organ kept getting softer and louder. In fact his words were something to the effect that Tera Shirma engineers needed to learn something about Mic placement. I blew my stack and called him. The problem was Denny kept musical time with his right foot...the foot that was on the organ volume pedal.Drove Milan crazy.Once Bob Talbert knew the story he became a real fan of Tera Shirma and would talk about the studio in his column.
| By NeicaLee (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 02:51 am: |
Ralph,
Talking about Milan. He was amazing. The slightest imperfection drove him wild. So quiet-- but a fabulous engineer and asset to the studio. I barely remember his face. Everytime he walked past me or came into the office he was looking at the floor. I really liked him and marveled at his calmness and ability to get things done.
I remember Bob Talbert, met him several times. He was the last word in Detroit gossip and reviews.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 01:58 pm: |
hi neica lee
great to hear from you.
all that banter adds to what is a really great story.
i'd like to hear some of mike terry. remember him.
please keep in touch.
david
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 02:00 pm: |
Neica Lee,
I'm not sure Milan ever knew quite how to take you. I think he was somewhat in awe of you and shy in your presence. He was a great engineer though and as you mentioned, a total perfectionist.
| By NeicaLee (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 03:26 pm: |
Hi David,
This has been a wonderful trip down "memory Lane" Every day I remember some different moment that has been tucked away but brings back pleasant thoughts of my time at the studio.
Yes I remember Mike Terry, I always enjoyed seeing him. He was very talented and a very gentle man. Very laid back, and very intelligent. He would spend a lot of time in my office chatting and we became good friends. Even when I moved back to NYC,I had the chance to visit with him on one of his trips there. My husband (at the time) and I, had dinner with Mike. He was trying to either sell or promote one of his records. I wish I could remember which one. Perhaps it will come back to me. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I am glad you are not too bored with the "banter". The inner workings of the studio was at all time extremely professional, but a very close community
developed between all the people who worked there. To Ralph, we were people. not just empoyees and everyone felt his warmth and caring, and reciprocated the feelings, creating a pleasant and comfortable place to work in. As I said, this is an enjoyable exchange and I will be checking in frequently. Please feel free to ask me anything. Everytime I remember something I think will be of interest, I will contribute.
| By Lowell (66.32.123.101 - 66.32.123.101) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 05:54 am: |
NeicaLee and Ralph, yuck, you had to listen to Denny McLain record on the organ! Poor babies! But what great history.
For those who may not know him, Denny McLain was a star pitcher for the Detroit Tigers baseball team and led the Tigers to the World Series championship in 1968 adding greatly to the heady excitement of those days that featured the throb of Detroit soul, the 1967 riot, anti-Vietnam war protests and the hippie culture. Ralph and Neica are certain to remember the electricity of those times.
McLain won 31 games that season being the first pitcher to do that in over thirty years. No one has done it since.
He had his shady side and it was rumored that the mob broke his hand at the end of the 1967 season denying the Tigers the championship that year.
His career was a brief meteoric burst and then he ended up being a petty shake down business man ending up in prison for dope and exortion.
When he got out he made a brief comeback as a radio personality. Detroit likes their badboys and gives them a second chance. However he was soon back to his old ways. This time he bought a failing meat packer in a small town, stole the pension fund of the workers and then shut the place down. Let's see, I think he might get out in another five years this time which is less than what he should get for his organ recording.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 02:38 pm: |
Lowell,
Thanks for the update on Denny McLain.I knew it all up until his last mishap that got him back in prison. I thought he was still on Detroit radio. Afer he recorded at Tera Shirma, he was so impressed with the place that he wanted to buy in as a partner.Ira Jaffe, my brilliant attorney, was always looking out for situations that might benifit me. He decided that a meeting with Denny couldn't hurt.So A meetng was arranged with Denny and his attorney. We arrived at the meeting place and Denny was there but his attorney had yet to arrive. When he finally showed he sort of oozed into the room all slick and oily. Well it didn't take but a few minutes for my highly educated attorney to assess this absurd situation and get me out of there. And Lowell, you are so right....Denny should be doing life for his organ playng alone.
| By John Lester (213.122.202.131 - 213.122.202.131) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 03:13 pm: |
Ralph..
Dayna L Hartwick....a lady who played woodwinds and was almost a baby when she played on the Tops "Reach Out I'll Be There"
What do you know about her? Can you recall any recordings on this (most humble in my opinion) lady.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 04:17 pm: |
John,
I can't say I'm familar with the name. You say she was a woodwind player. Was she a member of the Detroit Symphony?
| By John Lester (213.1.133.104 - 213.1.133.104) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 06:51 pm: |
Ralph...
Not sure about that Ralph...I was hoping you might be able to tell ME!
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 07:23 pm: |
Well maybe someone will see this thread and know he answer. That is what is so great about this forum. Absolutely incredible. David and Lowell...you have my deepest respect.
| By Ade (193.129.220.205 - 193.129.220.205) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 10:28 pm: |
How's that for praise David and Lowell.!!!
Ralph'll be giving John Lester his own producers letter next!
He could be XT for Crosstown?!!!!!
(Can I be A1 !!!!!!)
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 03:25 am: |
Ade...you ARE A1...but you do need to sharpen up on your Italian jokes partner.
| By Ade (193.129.220.205 - 193.129.220.205) on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 10:11 pm: |
Ralph
I've just printed off your last comment to put in a frame.......
| By Lowell (66.32.39.114 - 66.32.39.114) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 04:56 am: |
Part 5 of the Tera Shirma saga is launched. Things are really rolling now... Isaac Hayes passes through as does Ollie McLaughlin and the affable Bob Babbit... Brother Russ mixes tons of gold and platinum. Geez you guys were rollin'. Once again, great history Ralph. Thanks.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 02:15 pm: |
Ralph - Lowell -
Another stunning episode. This has just got to be the best "serial" on the 'net! Russ - what a collection of accolades. A talented pair of brothers, and no doubt.
Ralph, I couldn't help noticing in your pic at the mixing desk that object leaning against the wall. I assume it's a keyboard stand - or did you travel to the studio by pogo stick in 1999 as part of an energy-saving program? ;o)
--Ritchie--
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 03:05 pm: |
Ritchie,
Good eye! That IS a keyboard stand leaning against the wall. Fortunately I don't have far to travel to the studio these days though. This one happens to be in my house. At my quickly advancing age Ritchie, pogo sticks are definitely out.
I'm glad you're enjoying the series.
| By John Lester (213.1.136.140 - 213.1.136.140) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 03:57 pm: |
Ralph, this is just so superb....why has it taken US all so long to get you to do this!!! David and Lowell...you guys are doing a wonderful job - congratulations. I am on the edge of my seat all the time wondering what is gonna come next and when I get to the end I go........oh no...and then I go back to the beginning AGAIN. GREAT STUFF.
I hadn't heard of the group Mandella....do you mean Mandrill?
..and that Diana Ross concert in Central Park must be the one where it rained and rained and rained....Russ was lucky he didn't get electocuted!
Can you get Russ to tell us what those gold albums and 45's were.....(Psychedelic Shack has got to be the first one listed please). And what is Russ doing these days? Ralph, you tell him we wanna hear about it.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 04:22 pm: |
John,
Once again, thank you for your enthusiastic response to the story. I think I'm having more fun than anyone in this.
The group WAS Mandella. I don't think anything happened with them. I barely remember anything about them in the studio except for Babbit blowing their minds.
I'll have to get Russ to post on some of his records.In reality, I doubt if he could give you an accurate count of all the gold and platinum. I may have short changed him on the webisode.
Today Russ produces television commercials for AT&T. He has always been amazing with electronic gear. I don't think he has once consulted a manuel. He just plays around with it until he figures it all out. He was at my home yesterday and informed me he now uses 5 computers for his work.Scarey dude.
When he has time he still comes into the studio and works with me. It's always great to have him there but I do miss the old days when we were together constantly. I'll call him and tell him to respond to your post.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 04:25 pm: |
John,
Once again, thank you for your enthusiastic response to the story. I think I'm having more fun than anyone in this.
The group WAS Mandella. I don't think anything happened with them. I barely remember anything about them in the studio except for Babbit blowing their minds.
I'll have to get Russ to post on some of his records.In reality, I doubt if he could give you an accurate count of all the gold and platinum. I may have short changed him on the webisode.
Today Russ produces television commercials for AT&T. He has always been amazing with electronic gear. I don't think he has once consulted a manuel. He just plays around with it until he figures it all out. He was at my home yesterday and informed me he now uses 5 computers for his work.Scarey dude.
When he has time he still comes into the studio and works with me. It's always great to have him there but I do miss the old days when we were together constantly. I'll call him and tell him to respond to your post.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 04:31 pm: |
OOOPS!!!
Sorry...I posted this last thing twice. I think we should start a new thread...Tera Shirma webisode cont'd. This first one is so long it takes forever to get to the bottom.
John,
Yes it rained like crazy at the Diana Ross Central Park concert. Russ has some really great stories on how they pulled that one off.
| By John Lester (213.1.135.41 - 213.1.135.41) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 07:40 pm: |
Well....we wanna hear Russ tell us PLEASE...
The man who put the pips on Reflections is welcome here anytime!!! HEE HEE