By shellyapril (128.151.130.174 - 128.151.130.174) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 06:01 pm:

I just wanted to tell everyone about some great soul artists. India.Arie has a great followup album out now titled Voyage

To India. There's also Remy Shand with his album The Way I Feel. You can have the opportunity to help these great

artists by joining the Motown Online Street Team. To find out more, follow this link:

http://teams.m80im.com/team/motown . Thanks!!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 06:10 pm:

If this wasn't about Motown, I'd call it just plain Spam.

By SAM the SPAM (195.219.7.86 - 195.219.7.86) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 06:21 pm:

SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,WONDERFUL SPAM.NICE ONE RITCH.Erik AND THE Vikings.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 11:27 am:

I had to sleep on this one and reading Shellyapril's post again this morning I must agree. Spam. Shelly, please understand me. ( and my thoughts may not reflect the general opinions of Soulful Detroit so please take them as my own ) I must confess that I'm not totally up on Motown's artist roster these days, but I do try and pay a certain amount of attention to what's coming out of a company I was once in love with. however, in my opinion the company is just a very small cut above labels such as Death Row etc. I feel the present management of the company is trying to do some real R&B but why they can't seem to ( or don't want to ) completely pull it off is a mystery to me. I hope I'm not coming across like some middle-aged fool, but I hear nothing from the present Motown that even begins to approach the talent that is discussed on this forum. I think this is sad, but I also think I'm right on the money with my feelings and my feelings are that for now the name Motown is just some conveniently titled record company that for some reason is clueless regarding it's roots and direction. Having said all that Shelly, please feel free to post what you want or what you believe in. As long as it originates from Motown I think all of us here can accept your suggestions and maybe someday be pleasantly surprised.

By padgburyman (195.93.34.13 - 195.93.34.13) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 11:34 am:

Spot on Ralph.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 12:03 pm:

Ralph

I agree with every word you say. However, this exact same message, word for word, appeared in my website's guestbook a few days ago, so Ms April is obviously pasting this everywhere she feels fit. I love Motown, but there's the "Motown" we love and respect - and a frankly so-so contemporary label who inherited the name. I know where my heart is.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 12:10 pm:

Ritchie,
Perhaps Ms.Shelliapril is a true Contemporary Motown fan trying to spread the news of music she believes in. Let's hope that if she hangs around here long enough she will begin to understand what she may have been missing.

By SisDetroit (67.26.14.117 - 67.26.14.117) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 12:36 pm:

That's why I usually say "Hitsville" or "Detroit Motown", so there will be no misunderstandings. (LOL) There is a total difference.

But, I am guilty of spreading the word on non-Motown message boards and non-soul, about the SITSOM. :o)
Guilty as charged, Sis

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 01:00 pm:

Extenuating circumstances, Sis. All charges dropped ;o)

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 01:10 pm:

Sis,
You're a righteous evangelist spreading the True Word.

By Sue (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 01:21 pm:

Plus I'm sure Sis doesn't simply cut and paste a canned "announcement," like the above ...

I want to like India.Arie but I'm having a bit of a disconnect, for the reasons Ralph states.

Not to be a geographical elitist, but I think part of Motown's magic -- and that of Stax, and Philly Int'l -- was that they used and built on a sound, and a movement related to a place.

Today Motown artists have no special link ...

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 01:30 pm:

Sue,
I think you're right on the money with that. I have always felt that Motown's demise was imminent when Detroit was vacated.

By mhc (172.134.38.165 - 172.134.38.165) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 03:43 pm:

When Berry G. took the label to LA he was, of course, entitled to keep the Motown name and logo and use it any way he wanted to. But now that he's gone, why the Hell do they have a Motown logo anyway? What on Earth is it supposed to signify? IMO, Erykah Badu is a cool artist (I really haven't heard India Arie), but she's from Dallas. Universal put Erykah's second CD out under a Motown logo to try and give the Motown name some contemporary cred; I'm sure she had no choice in the matter, and was probably annoyed. For my money, unless Universal is going to open up an A&R office in Detroit and run Motown from there (and why not?..), they shouldn't bother with the Motown label, except, of course, for reissues. Otherwise, no Berry Gordy and no Detroit means that "Motown", as a contemporary record label name, signifies nothing, with all due respect to whoever's on the label now. (IMO)

By RALPH (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 03:47 pm:

Thanks Marshall. My sentiments EXACTLY!!

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.58 - 195.219.7.58) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 04:27 pm:

MHC&Ralph,I Couldnt agree more than what you have both stated.Surely Motown Records and its stable of spin-off Labels that were making so many tracks in the 1960s will remain one of the most successful Record companys in the history of popular/soul music history.Especially considering all of the other American indie Labels that came and went.The name alone,Hitsville,just screams out hit after hit.I Certainly wont be a witness to another Label like it in my lifetime.The vast array of different genres of music was outstanding to say the least.Tell me anyone on this planet that hasent heard the name Motown.MEL.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 05:05 pm:

Mel,
Youre right on pal. I suppose that is why I have such a hard time with the present Motown company. It just isn't the prolific label that it once was, and you can't ride the coattails of a name forever.

By John Lester (213.123.117.184 - 213.123.117.184) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 05:51 pm:

I feel great emotion in these messages......I feel the same.

And Ralph....let me add my 100% support too.

By Clay (66.73.182.199 - 66.73.182.199) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 05:54 pm:

Hey Guys,
The real MOTOWN will live forever. GOD,blessed the
Detroit Company and all the original artist,writers,producers,creative staff and administrators eons ago. He also left Guys like us around to keep it alive. Regardless of anything that comes out of the current occcupants of label what was once the Greatest Record Label in the World,they can NEVER take any credit for keeping the real MOTOWN magic alive.


The original MOTOWN is and will continue
to be LEGENDARY. I wish nothing but the best for the current artist and others,and if they really want to keep a part of history alive they should'nt created a Motown Alumni label which would have allowed the creators of original company to remain active, because they still have a major audience out here who would love to here the MAGIC a few more times. Peace

By Clay (66.73.182.199 - 66.73.182.199) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 06:07 pm:

I made a typo in my message
it should read" If they want to keep a part of history alive they (Should've)created a Motown Alumni label. Peace

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 06:21 pm:

Clay,
Your message came throgh loud and clear. What a great idea...an alumni label.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 06:38 pm:

I think we'd all agree that the Motown legacy is being well preserved by Harry and his intrepid band of Detroitophiles, whatever the "contemporary" side of the company is doing. There has been a discussion on the Motown BB lately about when the Classic Era ended, and it's pretty unanimous that the original magic that made the Motown sound just about evaporated when they left Detroit.

"Motown" as a label will probably continue indefinitely, but I personally find it almost impossible to identify with the current management and artists and feel part of it, in the way that Hitsville felt like a kind of "home" even though I never set foot in the place.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 06:51 pm:

Well Ritchie, I hope you get the chance one day.

I just love the city and it's people.

By KevGo (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 07:57 pm:

To All:
As probably one of the youngest here on the Boards, I would agree with many of you in regards to Hitsville & today's Motown.
i know that Kedar Massenburg (the label's Pres/CEO) is doing the best he can to run the company but let's face it - Motown is now a small cog in a big conglomerate called Universal Music Group, and Kedar has to answer to UMG Chief Doug Morris and God knows how many others along the way. Therefore, he's running the label the way they want him to and their concern is in Morris' own words, to have hits, period. Back in the day the buck stopped right at Berry Gordy and only BG - which resulted in the most innovative music to ever be created in the USA next to Jazz, Blues and Gospel. While I do enjoy India.Arie, I would have enjoyed her music regardless of what label released it. That's what's so sad about the current Motown - for the execption of a few artists the label hasn't maintained that great spirit which the label and all concerned created in Detroit or the early LA years with Stevie, Marvin, Diana, J5, Commodores, Miracles, Rick James, Teena Marie and Smokey (if I forgot anyone charge it to my head and not my heart). I would strongly suggest for anyone who is gonna run Motown - Kedar, Doug Morris, anyone - should study this label's history and consult folks such as the Terrana Brothers, Clay McMurray, Bobby Eli and even catalog VP Harry Weinger as to what made the label successful and what will make it even more so for the future.
There's my two cents, I'm going to bed!
Peace and regards,
KevGo
(PS note to Ritchie - I agree with David. Visit the Motown Museum and Detroit when you get a chance. It's worth the time)

By thecount (64.53.165.90 - 64.53.165.90) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 08:57 pm:

Hey "PETE MOORE",do you copy?I know you have a life time of "MOTOWN" left in your soul and many chapters and episodes.Please keep your promise and get on board(ITS A LOVE TRAIN).Maybe you have visited the forum as you promised me you would, but now please let it all hang out right here.The whole world is a stage,and each must play their part,you played so many parts on that stage and once again the stage is all yours.Please do it for me and all your fans here.They are eagerly waiting for you.It's time now to dig out my favorites and spin them while we wait for you.
"WAY OVER THERE"
"I'VE BEEN GOOD TO YOU"
"BAD GIRL"
"GOT A JOB"
"I'LL TRY SOMETHING NEW"
and all the obscure stuff I dont want to open and play on a turntable,and on and on.
STEVE "THE COUNT" p.s. I'll see you in NOV. and call you .We will get together with RITCHIE P.

By Brian Chin NYC (152.163.189.167 - 152.163.189.167) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 10:22 pm:

Well said, KevGo, I think the original poster is an enthusiastic fan who has posted every bulletin board she found on her search engine and I say more power to it, we need kids to be hyped up on music and feel it belongs to them.

I personally love India.Arie and consider her love songs to be outstanding. No one seems to know her stuff at all, so I can tell you that she addresses the higher self, the most joyful part of love much the way Ashford and Simpson have always done. Don't suppose anyone's read India's interviews, either, mentioning that her Mom comes from Detroit and was around Motown in the early days and how thrilled and honored India was to join Motown because of it.

Remy Shand happens to be an extremely talented guy too...self taught, excellent player and multi-instrumentalist, true disciple of Curtis, Stevie and Willie Mitchell. I assure you he's not trying to offend by putting his name next to Motown's, and Kedar has to sell records to today's Young America. They are hip-hoppers and I can't say I blame them for liking what they like.

I think it's good to encourage young people who are sincerely interested in music and who honor the same heroes we do. Don't you?

By Sue (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 11:04 pm:

Brian,
I don't think encouraging or discouraging young people is the point. Just rename the label something modern and hip-hop-y, that is more descriptive of the talent involved. The label "Motown" is meaningless as applied to the current stable.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26 - 193.122.21.26) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:39 am:

For my money the rot started at Motown when Berry
moved to LA and left control of the Detroit
operation in the hands of non-creative people
like managers and accountants. I'm not saying everybody in management was the same, there were
exceptions like Harry Balk among others, but
it was the attitudes adopted by people like
Ralph Seltzer towards the creative staff and
the artists themselves that led to the early
seventies exodus of artists to other labels where they felt they'd get the respect they were due.

Of course there's a place for accountants but
overall control should have been given to
somebody who was aware that it was music abd
dreams the company was producing - not tins of
baked beans. The managers should also have
considered that they wouldn't be in their jobs if
it wasn't for the creative people they treated
with such disdain.

By john lester (62.49.61.57 - 62.49.61.57) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:05 am:

Sue

I am with you on this one.

I ask myself why does the name have to be used for today's music unless there is a clear purpose to associate the current with the past...and that is like comparing chalk with cheese

And Clay..it don't matter what name is on given for the label, we just need to make sure YOUR name is on it somewhere!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 10:02 am:

Davie,
It's true that Motown began to fail with the exodus to L. A. But it wasn't the fault of those left behind. These were the true Motown people. Don't forget, Motown had some of it's most prolific years with Harry Balk at the helm. And there was never anyone more true to Motown and what it really represented than Ralph Seltzer. What killed Motown was L.A. and the crew that sweet talked Berry while he was busy making movies. Don't get me wrong. These were some very smart people and Berry always respected brains. The problem was they wanted to re-make Motown to fit the Hollywood image of a record company.Motown was NEVER that kind of company. Motown was Detroit. Motown was " street ". It ws inevitable that the company would ultimately fail with this new philosophy. We that were still in Detroit did everything possible to prevent the ultimate take-over from the L.A. crowd but it would soon prove futile. Think of the stupidity here.The " crowd " manuevered to get rid of Harry Balk. Imagine such audacity! And they succeeded. Harry always used to tell me to surround myself with strong people. I think someone in L.A. should have heeded the man's advice.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 10:13 am:

Sue,
I think your response to Brian is right on the money. I don't have any probem with the development of new talent. Some of these kids are very good. However Motown had a signiture sound that is no longer found in the music the label is presently releasing. Motown was the Funk Brothers. Motown was the brilliant arrangements of Paul Riser and Dave Van de Pitte. Motown was the first class productions of Norman Whitfield, Clay McMurray, Frank Wilson, Hank Cosby, Clarence Paul, Johnny Bristol et al. I'm not suggesting that there is no longer any talent out there. What Im saying is what is coming out of Motown has nothing to do with what was traditionally Motown music and what made the company unique. As Sue said. It could all come from a number of other labels but it surely does not represent the Motown Sound.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26 - 193.122.21.26) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 10:31 am:

Ralph,

Thanks for your considered response to my post.

If I've done Ralph Seltzer an injustice I'll take
back what I said - it's probably just the fan in me wanting to blame somebody for the demise of
what was without doubt the finest record company there ever was and is ever likely to be.

I remember reading a US press story about the
Temps. and their manager at the time was quoted
as saying that the public neither knew nor cared
who exactly was appearing in concert as the Temps.
As a long time fan I felt insulted by those
remarks (maybe he was misquoted) and tended to tar
managers with the same brush. Overly simplistic
I'll admit but, y'know I'm first and foremost a
fan and emotionally it's easier to lay blame than
it is to consider that there are viewpoints of all the people involved in running an organisation of the size of late sixties Motown.

Motown owes a huge debt of gratitude to Harry
Balk - without him we might never have heard
"What's Going On" and God knows how many other
records that we as fans don't know all the politics behind.

Fade out - rambling .... ; - )

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 10:33 am:

The handwriting was on the wall for me when they began moving our outboard gear to LA under the pretense that they were doing more sessions than we were. This despite the fact that we were still producing 90% of the hits. A mysterious union election followed where all the Detroit engineers were to vote on being represented by the Teamsters. Everybody I knew was smart enough to know that wasn't the appropriate union for engineers and I've always figured the LA studio was behind that union election because I'm sure none of our guys would have gone to any union but NABET, the IBEW or IATSE.

LA undoubtedly figured if they could convince the Detroit writers and producers to move to LA, the hits would follow them. I'll never forget Larry Miles telling me "these dudes think a recording studio is all about sucking up to producers and artists instead of being straight with them like we were in Detroit." At that point I knew where I certainly WASN'T going when Detroit folded.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:08 am:

Brian:
Thanks for the feedback. Along with India.Arie you mentioned Remy Shand who was influenced by Stevie, Marvin and even some of today's R&B artists. More power to them for carrying what seems to be a large torch.

Sue & Ralph:
While I may agree with your statements regarding "Classic Motown," as you two may know from being in the business artists grow and evolve as do record labels. Are you saying that the Funk Bros - era Motown is the definitive Motown? How about Stevie Wonder's classic 1970s works? Marvin Gaye's prolific works would not have seen the light of day under the "Classic Motown" era if it wasn't for Harry Balk going to bat for "What's Going On". Smokey's "Quiet Storm" brings chills to my spine as does "Ooh Baby Baby." Diana's solo stuff stands up with the Supremes singles. To limit Motown's greatness to one decade is not doing the label any justice. Maybe when Gordy sold the label he should have taken the rights to the Motown name with him. Unfortunately, that wasn't in the cards at the time.
As I said to Brian, India and Remy have a tremendous torch they are carrying and I think to harp on "Old Motown" and "New Motown" is pointless. I'm sure India in particular feels she has an obligation to carry on the legacy being a Detroiter and having a Mom who reportedly was a (later) member of Martha Reeves & the Vandellas. This is why Motown "mentors" such as Stevie Wonder has been so supportive of India's career. If there was more of this type of support between the Motown legends (whether they still record for the label or not) and the current roster, the legacy can continue somehow.
With Kind Regards,
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:10 am:

Bob,
My epiphamy came after waiting 3 hours for a meeting with Susanne DePasse, and she abruptly cancelled me because she wanted to go play backgammon at Kirk Douglas's house.I can't quite repeat what I told her office when they tried to reschedule me the following day. Suffice it to say it was then I realized it was time for me to leave Motown.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:13 am:

Davie,
I understand your passion dude. Believe me though, they didn't come much better than Ralph Seltzer.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:30 am:

Kev,
You make some interesting points. I had a conversation with my brother last week regarding the demise of Detroit Motown. He said that it was possible that the company as it existed then had had it's day and it was time to move on. It's true, there is a new generation of Motown arists emerging. This is nothing new. You mention Stevie. He is probably a classic example of a new Motown artist. When he turned 21 and his present contract became null and void, he would re-sign with the company under a completely new set of conditions and the results are history. however lets not forget that he was groomed by the likes of Clarence Paul and Hank Cosby. That's some pretty impressive schooling. So Stevie would go on to represent a new side of Motown. I suppose that the fact that he is mentoring these newer, younger acts speaks well for the tradition of the company.
Now having said that, I must still stress that there should still be some attention to traditional Motown music. after all, does not everyone still love to listen to this?
So maybe there is room for both, just as when Stevie found his direction. The problem is the traditional side is presently without representation....oh oh I'm late...gotta run. Be glad to continue this later.

By Sue (208.232.121.87 - 208.232.121.87) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:52 am:

Kevgo,
I don't think any of us are talking about decades, so much as geography. You can't separate Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye, or Diana Ross and her solo hits, from "classic Motown," and nobody ever would. No matter where Stevie records, his roots are in Studio A, where the Funk Brothers and the Motown producers put him through his paces. Marvin was his own artist, but a part of the W. Grand Blvd. stable no matter how far out he got creatively.

Nothing against India.Arie, but the Detroit roots aren't there. P.S. Martha has toured with a LOT of different Vandellas but the Motown-bred Vandellas, Rosalind and Annette, are the ones we know.

Can you imagine Philadelphia International being run out of Los Angeles, with artists who had no connection to the town, or Gamble & Huff?

By Brian Chin NYC (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:01 pm:

Well, I don't know...it is just not the way things happen in business that you retire a brand name you just spent millions to acquire. Arista will go on long after the great music man Clive Davis is gone, A&M, Virgin, Island, Chrysalis, all of the great labels, Atlantic, for heaven's sake, are run by a new generation and sell their music primarily to a new generation.

I'd never tell an artist who's devoted their life to music that they had no business associating their name with a particular label. I thought it was a credit to Berry Gordy that Boyz II Men had the longest running No. 1 single of all time and that India.Arie got seven Grammy nominations and got right the heck on a plane and squeezed 800,000 more sales out of a beautiful, uplifting, and really fly album. I would say that the No 6 pop and No. 1 R&B entry of her new album adds to the luster of the name Motown, and proves that that it can live forever in new music as well as old. There's a lot of heavy lifting involved in doing that and I say Go, Kedar...thank you for pulling the terrible failure of Andre Harrell out of the fire and sparing us the sad sight of the Motown label being put into a grave.

Sorry, but I have to dog it. You should listen to Remy play guitar like Ernie Isley. Or keys like Billy Preston. God bless it, I say. God bless their talent.

By Brian Chin NYC (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:19 pm:

Oh and uh, you should hear the way that guy from Alabama writes songs...what's his name, Lionel? I think Mr. Gordy liked him too.

By Sue (63.85.105.9 - 63.85.105.9) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:24 pm:

Brian,
I think you know the point we're making. A&M, Virgin, Island, Chrysalis -- only Island is rooted in a geographical place, very loosely, it's rooted in a style of music (VERY loosely).

Motown on the other hand, like Philadelphia International, is rooted in a place, in a music scene that erupted north of the Detroit River, wherever the artists came from, they settled here, were groomed here and recorded here.

There was a distinct Motown sound, as there was a distinct Philly Int'l sound. So we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:36 pm:

Sue,
You just made a very interesting point. There was at one time identifiable sounds.i.e. Motown, Philly, Memphis. Mussel Shoals, California etc. Now thanks to the corporate scheme it is all homoginized. We lost the " personality ' gotta run again...later all.

By MelsMate (195.219.7.83 - 195.219.7.83) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:43 pm:

Hey Ralph,The Feds are not after you are they mate?MEL.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:58 pm:

Sue:
Your point was made but bear in mind that at one time artists flocked to the East Coast because of labels like Atlantic, Scepter/Wand, Columbia (Clive Davis era) & RCA as well as the West Coast because of the music scene there (and labels like A&M, Dunhill, and United Artists making hits happen). Scepter/Wand had a distinct sound thanks to the early work of Luther Dixon as did Atlantic with the various producers they used and the labels they distributed. Dunhill's folk-rock success with Barry McGuire attracted the Mamas & the Papas while almost every rock band wanted to be on Columbia because of Santana, Janis Joplin and Sly & the Family Stone (okay, they were on Epic...). The point is each label had a specific sound and expertise as did Motown, Stax/Volt (let us not forget) and Philadelphia International. But as you said to Brian, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Regards,
KevGo

By Sue (208.232.121.87 - 208.232.121.87) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 03:50 pm:

Kevgo,
Your point was made too, but Motown, like Philly Int'l, still has a geographical link that the other labels didn't have quite so specifically.

So yes, we can agree to disagree.

By Gary Rosen (12.234.95.0 - 12.234.95.0) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 04:23 pm:

"They lost the sound, man. They moved to L. A. looking for something different, and they didn't find it. And all along everybody else was searching for the same sound they had."

... from an interview with James Jamerson in Guitar Player magazine

- Gary Rosen

By HW (12.110.192.128 - 12.110.192.128) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 04:42 pm:

Although I am hesitant about posting on the subject and while I recognize the point of view of the loyal Detroiters - no, it's not the same (but it's amazing it lasted as long as it did) - I have to say... I never thought I would read posts suggesting Motown as a contemporary record label should curl up and die. I would have guessed the feeling would be the other way around.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 05:10 pm:

HW:
Hey there. It is indeed unfortunate that there are those who feel that the name should be retired because of "new management" and that the talent doesn't carry on the tradition in the eyes of others. I for one feel that Motown should continue as a contemporary label and have defended its existence even when certain characters almost ran the label into the ground (take a bow, Mr. Harrell). I know that musically it will never be the same but as long as there is a bridge between the traditional and the contemporary (Stevie Wonder + India.Arie) this label has a fighting chance.

To All:
I know that this has been a sensitive topic to many who were part of the Motown tradition and my comments are in no way meant to disrespect. Keep in mind that when MCA, PolyGram and Universal/Seagrams bought Motown one after the other, they were paying for a marketable name as well as the company's contents. To not use a moneymaking name and its attached history would be insanity from a businessman's point of view. The good thing is that we have folks like Harry Weinger (thanks for lunch, Harry) who are "fighting the good fight" for those who contributed to Motown's history and is making sure their music and their stories are heard.
That we can be thankful for. Also, despite Kedar Massenburg having to answer to the "powers that be," he is trying his best to carry on the legacy with India.Arie, Remy Shand, and DJ Rogers, Jr (the son of the 70s hit-maker)by signing artists that have been somewhat influenced by the legends who paved the way for them.
Peace,
KevGo

By soulboy (213.105.224.5 - 213.105.224.5) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 06:06 pm:

I supported motown long after they left detroit,but it wasn't until many years later,i realised they had lost that 'sound' forever, the problem was the competion in the industry caught up with them. In retrospect we can say allthough the detroit years will always be the best of all, motown continued to have many hits well into the eighties, these simply cannot be ignored.
The problem is not what motown is now, but the current state of R&b which IMO is just too bland.
but I do not share the view of some of the forum members that the name should be dropped, i hope that the label lives forever.

By Sue (63.85.105.9 - 63.85.105.9) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:04 pm:

The label will live forever, there's no doubt about that.

I think it was Marshall who suggested, that if Motown had at least an A&R office in Detroit, it would be a great thing tying the company's past with its present, and future.

There's no such thing of course. Recognizing where the Motown sound came from and especially the musicians who created it, and are still living, creatively vibrant people, would make Motown more than just another L.A. label.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:08 pm:

What did Lamont Dozier say? "Going Back To My Roots".....

By mhc (172.154.243.20 - 172.154.243.20) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:31 pm:

When I posted above, I was definitely speaking as a Detroit-area native, so take what I said there with a grain of salt. The sadness I felt when the label bailed on Detroit ran deep and is still fresh in my mind. And I was just a fan; we all know what it did to so many of the Motown artists and employees. Another part of me understands why the label still exists. You could say that the artists who are on Motown now are closer to the spirit of classic Motown than was some of the stuff that came out on the label during the '80s, before BG cashed out. Anybody remember "I've Never Been to Me"? Maybe after all this I'll go buy an India Arie CD (or maybe I'll get a freebie..)

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:55 pm:

Sue,
Motown did very nearly keep a Detroit connection. At the time of the Great Exodus to L. A. I was approached by Billie Jean Brown to let me know I was being considered to keep a small Detroit operation going. I wqs to be left with Studio A and an operating budget. However this never transpired and I'm certain it had something to do with the rancor between me and the L. A. crowd. Retrospctively, I'm not sure if I could have performed any miracles with this opportunity but I would loved to have tried.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:00 pm:

Marshall,
I certainly do remember that song. What was that girl's name?? Interestingly they turned her over to my brother to produce an album. I went to L.A. to bring him some songs I had written that would have worked for her. The bottom line is she was a total pain in the ass to work with and I don't think the album was ever completed. A true " One Hit Wonder '.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:35 pm:

I think we have a lot of partial truths here. I would summarize the truth of Motown's transition away from Detroit for myself as:

1. the music/radio/record industry had turned away from singles to albums and to artists who wrote their own material

2. there was pretty a bad attitude at Motown in LA towards the company's Detroit legacy and working methods

3. the Funk Brothers had become well-known to the rest of the industry (if not the public) and had begun playing a lot of well-paid sessions outside Detroit which made them a lot less available than they had been during the '60s

4. Berry Gordy had lost interest in the record business as a personal challenge but didn't really have anybody qualified to delegate running that part of his very uniquely managed company to.

5. Motown in Detroit got reinvented after HDH left and got reinvented once again in Los Angeles. When you stop to think about it, this was quite an accomplishment on the part of Berry Gordy!

6. We all miss the Motown years in Detroit but there's plenty of evidence that it probably couldn't have continued, the most telling being Holland-Dozier-Holland's very limited level of success both during their last year or so at Motown and afterwards.

7. Miraculously a lot of us are still very much alive and able to come together again and continue sharing great music with the world.

8. The spirit of the miracle we were all a part of is very real and can never go away.

By Brian Chin NYC (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:58 pm:

Bob, did people around Motown tend to say, "If you want something done well, let Bob do it?"

'Cause I'm saying it right now. I am really glad we met here.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 09:21 pm:

Brian,
Allow me to speak on Bob's behalf.Bob was /is a very thoughtful and competent engineer. Even though Motown had a generous supply of microphones, Bob had more. He would come to sessions with his own supply and when it came to putting it on tape, there was none better than Bob Ohllson. The fact that he is also a wonderful historian is just icing on the cake.

By HW (68.37.217.106 - 68.37.217.106) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:10 pm:

Don't let a good feeling pass...

Bob is one of the several Motown engineers happy to share their insights on the recording and mixing of great records from back in the heyday. That helps me help the music EVERY DAY.

BTW, Motown's new company slogan - the one that appears in a new logo alongside the 'M in a box - reads: "Artistic Integrity: Our Legacy. Our Future!" On top of the design it says 'Detroit.' At the bottom it says 'New York.' Whether it's lip service or whatever, just thought I'd report it. (I know what MC is thinking - an A&R office in Detroit would be a nice touch to support that...)

By P.J. (12.227.35.89 - 12.227.35.89) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:40 pm:

"I've Never Been To Me' was recorded by Charlene D'Angelo/Duncan/Oliver, who amazingly had a few albums issued on the Motown family of labels (Prodigal & Motown).
By the time "I've Never Been To Me" became an in demand song (it had appeared on one of her albums 5 years earlier before being discovered and promoted by a Florida D.J.), Charlene had been off Motown's roster for 2 years and was living in England working as a store clerk. Motown tracked her down, re-signed her and even had her cut a duet with Stevie Wonder "Used To Be".

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 10:47 am:

Bob:
Thank you for putting into perspective Motown's transition. I agree with your statement regarding Gordy's success at reinvention!

PJ:
I remember spinning both Charlene singles when I was working in Adult Contemporary radio. Big AC hits indeed.

Harry:
The slogan says it all....

Ralph:
Besides the Terra Shirma webisodes, when are YOU gonna write your autobiography! The many stories you could tell beyond this website...

Brian:
Keep the faith, my friend. I would love to meet you someday (you can contact me through HW).

Peace to all,
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 11:17 am:

Kev,
My daughter has been after me for years to write a book. She has a masters degree in literature and is a very gifted writer and has offered to write it with me. The thought of writing a book with my daughter has always intrigued me so maybe one of these days I'll give it a shot.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 11:27 am:

Mel,
The last I looked the feds were not interested in me. It's just life its own self chasing me around.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.33 - 195.219.7.33) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 01:39 pm:

Hey Ralph,I For one would love to see a book written by your fine self about the times you have experienced in the music industry.May I book my copy now,in case you take up your daughters offer.MEL.P.S.glad the G.Men arnet interested in you(ho,ho.).

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 03:17 pm:

Ralph:
Looking forward to the possible collaboration with your daughter. Let me know if you need a researcher. I'd be happy to help.
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 04:58 pm:

Thanks Kev,
The way my memory is going lately I'm sure a researcher would be most useful.

By Nish (170.224.224.102 - 170.224.224.102) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 09:49 pm:

Mr. Ohllson: Your post on the reasons for the decline of the Motown-Detroit sound is very informative. A lot of people tend to look at the history of anything in a linear way, and we don't realize that the things precipitating that "decline" (arguably) are multifactorial. It wasn't just Berry Gordy left town one day and - snap! - Detroit magic is gone, but lots of stuff. Change is inevitable, and that the 70s were half as fruitful as the 60s for Motown is, as others have pointed out, a tribute to BG's ingenuity.

By SisDetroit (67.26.14.248 - 67.26.14.248) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 11:55 am:

From a Detroiter, on the other side of the coin, as a resident-fan of Hitsville-record buyer, the building on W. Grand Blvd. seemed deserted after the company moved on Woodward. No longer the excitement outside at Hitsville, as it sat quietly alone. Not realizing that there was still great recordings still going on inside. Driving down Woodward, seeing the hugh building with the hugh Motown logo, the artists seemed out of reach, no longer the close family of the neighborhood. Just as I was adjusting to the Woodward building, all of a sudden, they were gone. They left us and was now in LA. Another world. We really felt deserted. It was a shock, and caused a grieving process. The Woodward building was left unattended, and began to decay with as did Detroit. Eventually, the Motown logo sign began to fall from the building, and W. Grand Blvd. building began to seem smaller than the other homes on the block, and needed care. Before the Museum became a reality, Hitsville also seemed deserted. As Motown in this far away land of LA began to grow, it had a different sound and appeal. The songs were no longer my number one picks. The sound was no longer a sound that I could identify with. I thought it was just me who was getting older and out of touch.

I never forgave Motown for leaving. And as the Woodward Building began to only have a dent of identification because the rest of the logo was down, as I pass the building, I would remember the good old days. I still have my beat up old LP's, and I treasured them, scratches and all. Torn covers, some which had been kept together with scotch tape. Not knowing that one day these precious recordings would be re-mastered. The recordings that had gotten away, lost or stolen, had been scratched, or broken, were gone for good. It became a habit to brouse in the oldies but goodies sections in the record shops, trying to find the old recordings. "Meet the Temptations", the first LP that I ever purchased was re-released on stereo LP, and I was happy to have found it. Then, lo and behold, as I became older, "Meet the Temptations" was remastered and released on CD. I can't believe I'm still here to see this. Whose idea was this? Somehow, someone had the idea to bring the treasures out of the vault. The Hitsville museum is booming, and the Woodward Building which is still owned by Gordy, is going to be a Motown Museum. The FUNK BROTHERS have resurfaced to claim their due, and all is well in the soul city, Detroit.

Nuff said. Sis

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 12:10 pm:

Motown's success turned all of us into citizens of the world rather than just of Detroit. One thing that needs mentioning is what else was going on in Detroit.

The industrialization of farming in the US during the 1950s and '60s led to displaced farmworkers flooding industrial cities such as Detroit creating pockets of almost unprecedented poverty. The failure of our society and governments to address this issue resulted in the streets of many American cities, including Detroit, being taken over by criminals. Racial prejudice was presented as society's excuse for its lack of compassion since passing civil rights legislation was lots cheaper than feeding, housing and educating hundreds of thousands of displaced farmworkers and their children. To this day most Americans refuse to face up to this atrocity that was committed on OUR and our parents' watch.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 01:37 pm:

Sis

Great stuff.

David

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 01:45 pm:

SisDetroit:
I read your passage and almost cried. I can only imagine how a life-long Detroiter would feel to have something that brought opportunity for all during a rather oppresive time, only to see it taken away or left to decay. During my college days I remember the betrayal many of my friends and family felt when Gordy sold the company in 1988. It was almost as if an era had ended.

Your story reflects that of many in the Motor City. A friend of mine from the Michigan area shared her feelings regarding Motown's move to "greener pastures." She felt the same feelings you relayed. Fortunately because of technology we can now bring to life the recordings you love. Because of devoted folks like yourself an Allan Slutsky can pull the remaining Funk Brothers together for what I hope will be a new chapter in Motown History.

Please keep on having the faith. For it's devoted folks like you that give us in the record industry someone (and something) to fight for.

Peace & Regards,
KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 01:54 pm:

Bob:
Thank you for the riveting perspective on the state of Detroit.
I was there for three days on business and it is sad and depressing to see the barren poverty that STILL exists in a city that at one time had so much hope. It angered me when my host told me not to walk the streets alone at night because of the violence (13 homicides alone in the month of June). This resulted in me staying in my hotel room nightly - and that made me feel like a prisoner. I could only imagine how some residents feel in their own neighborhoods. Unless more people like yourself can raise hell with the state government, not much is gonna change. Gambling casinos will only numb the pain temporarily and make casino bosses rich, not the community.
Keep The Faith,
KevGo

By Sue (64.244.93.44 - 64.244.93.44) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 02:35 pm:

Kevgo,

You really didn't need to stay in your hotel every night. Some of us go out at night downtown quite frequently and live to tell the tale.

By Sue (208.232.121.87 - 208.232.121.87) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 02:48 pm:

p.s. I'm not that brave, either. But you really need to know more about Detroit. There is crime here, like any city, but more often than not it's between people who know each other, and crime downtown pretty much consists of property crime -- someone breaking into a car when nobody's looking. Oh and a panhandler will ask you for a dollar (or a quawta, if it's Mary).

Even property crime hasn't happened to me, in years of parking downtown. I walk to the Anchor to meet friends, I walk out. I walk to Bomacs from my favorite parking lot, I walk out. I walk at dusk eight blocks to the Book Building where I have a monthly meeting, and I'll do that when the cool new bar opens on the ground floor in a few weeks.

No problemo.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 03:23 pm:

Sue:
I appreciate your feedback but I should have clarified my comments. The reason why my friend gave me the "advice" was because I was venturing into neighborhoods that were outside the Downtown Detroit area (near Michigan Ave, Telegraph Road, etc) and since most of my meetings took place during the dinner hours and later he was concerned for my safety. Fortunately, I was able to conduct business and make it back to my hotel alright.
KevGo

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 03:28 pm:

After tip-toeing my way into the city on my first two visits, I now have no qualms whatsover day or night.

Detroit has some (and many) of the friendliest people on the planet.

You just need to watch your step just as you do in any city.

I know your predicament Kev but we all listen to the rumours and the "history" and think it's a time-bomb.

I remember standing outside the airport (20 odd miles from the city), when I first went there, and thinking what the hell have I done!!
We never went outside the hotel at night, expecting the door to be broken down at any moment. Ridiculous when I think about it.

Anyway Kev maybe you can meet us in Detroit in May when we plan to have a ball - again!!!!!

David

By Sue (63.85.105.9 - 63.85.105.9) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 03:36 pm:

David,
I was hoping you would pipe in and give the lowdown on how Detroit really isn't scary.

Kevgo,
Michigan and Telegraph is in Dearborn -- it's a safe corner, by any bet?

I can't think of any hotels in the city where you'd feel intimidated about walking ...next time you need a real Detroiter -- or a frequent visitor like David -- to show you around.

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153 - 136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 04:05 pm:

Michigan and Telegraph dangerous? Well, there is a particularly ominous looking Chuck E. Cheese, there, but otherwise not much to worry about. Feel free to solicit more input from some of us locals on the board next time you are in town, and we'll be happy to help. I work in Dearborn. Where I live is a mystery that only my username could reveal.

Regards,

Ken

By SisDetroit (67.26.14.97 - 67.26.14.97) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 04:53 pm:

David - Thanks. When I got on line, I had to go to the UK and Scotland to find the other musical treasures. So I thank you and those like you.

KevGo - I was thinking of the music from Motown rather than any other opportunity. However, I was once working at a local business college, and Motown sent in a request for a secretary. I wanted to apply for that job so badly because it was Motown, and I would get to see my favorite singers. It paid less money so I didn't go. I wish I had, maybe I would have been discovered. :o)

When I go to other states and cities, I feel the same way you felt when you visited Detroit. When I went to Oakland, California, Las Vegas, Nev, Washington DC, Dallas TX, I was leary. On New Years Eve night, in Las Vegas, I am afraid to go out of my hotel/casion. Here in Detroit, I go out at night by myself, no more afraid of the night than I am the day. I don't think crime, I think safty. Who in the world told you there was danger at Michigan and Telegraph, and why? In fact, it's a nice golf course in that area.

Sue - Maybe we have shared too much of our great city, and should just keep it to ourselves. We have too many treasures here. People are coming to our city taking priceless artifacts fixtures from our great buildings, taking them to other cities and selling them for thousands of dollars. (LOL)

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:05 pm:

Sis

I was in Vegas for new year in 1998 and 1999 and it was frightening on the strip after the bells.

The most fearsome place I've been to is Hollywood.
But I still loved being there for the musical history.

BTW I'll be playing a tune which is close to your heart on the radio show on Saturday.

David

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:09 pm:

To All Concerned:
Thank you for your feedback regarding my trip to Detroit. It is a fine city despite its trials and tribulations. Like I said, the person who gave me his "advice" was only looking out for my best interests, especially with the sad experiences he went through in his life.

Note to David & Sue:
The person who "advised" me is the son of a legendary label owner who met a tragic demise outside the 20 Grand in 1968. I don't want to reveal his name for reasons of privacy but to clue you in please refer to your "Legendary Labels" tour on this website and you may figure out who I'm referring to. A real estate broker's office now occupies the label's former office.

Best to all,
KevGo

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:14 pm:

Yes I know who you mean.

I took some photographs inside that building.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:17 pm:

By the way...
I was just using Michigan and Telegraph as examples of places I needed to visit on business, not areas of danger. It was indeed pleasant where I had to visit plus the houses I saw along West Boston Boulevard are some of the most beautiful homes I've ever seen in my life (yes I did stop by the Gordy Manor - ah, if only the walls could talk...).

KevGo

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:18 pm:

Ken

Do you frequent "Desirable Discs" on Michigan Avenue?

For Mel's amusement...we found an Ian Levine album in amongst thousands of soul albums.

and a Simon Soussan pricing book behind the counter.

It IS a small world.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 07:49 pm:

Just to be clear, Detroit is in LOTS better shape today than the worst and this happened to EVERY large American city and not just Detroit.

Still the decay that happened to the homes of those of us who lived within a few blocks of Hitsville is very chilling. Our building on Woodward had been abandoned and I am very proud that Motown chose to fix it up rather than just moving out to the suburbs in the late '60s.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170 - 68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 08:57 pm:

KevGo - I was just thinking whether you had gone to Gordy Manor, as I was reading your post. Those homes have really gone up in price. It is beautiful over in that area. I went by there the other day, as I began to think about DMiekle's and Graham's love for the 60's and 70's. I decided to go down 14th and 12th, Euclid, where David Ruffin used to live, and Philadelphia, I think where Otis used to live.

I took a couple pictures myself of what used to be called "Star Silver" night club, on Woodrow Wilson & Fullerton, where Leon Issac Kennedy used to broadcast hen he was a radio DJ. Some great people came to that small club such as Stevie Wonder. "Leon The Lover" as he was called, was one of the popular radio DJs. I also took a picture of the Hobby Bar on Linwood, near Davidson. I went down 12th Street looking for the old clubs. Empty lots. I think, David you mentioned something about a club on 12th which is owned by I think the Payne sisters?

Sis

By Sue (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:16 pm:

Sis,
I think you mean the bar on or around Forest, owned by the Payne sisters' dad ... he was good friends with the late Leo Derderian, who owned the Anchor Bar, and used to be in there visiting with Leo a lot.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170 - 68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:34 pm:

Yes, Sue, I think you are right. Also, I got your email. I am bashful. (Yes, I am too!) LOL

Sis

By Sue (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:41 pm:

Oh Sis come on ...

It's just a phone call.

By David Meikle (213.122.56.135 - 213.122.56.135) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 03:48 am:

Hi Sis

Never heard of Star Silver.

Very, very interesting however. Do have the street address?

I think Farley's (Payne's Father) bar was on Collingwood.

I'll post a pic tonight.

Sis, if you can recall any other "lesser known" bars, I'd love to hear of them.

Thanks a million
David

By Sue (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 09:09 am:

Farley's on Collingwood -- bingo. That was it.

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153 - 136.2.1.153) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 10:53 am:

David,

Not only do I shop at Desirable Discs, but I just cashed in a store credit last week to pick up the Four Tops "Fourever" box set there.

Regards,
Ken

By Sue (63.85.105.20 - 63.85.105.20) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 10:55 am:

Has anyone been to the west side record shop to see the Golden World clock yet?

By SisDetroit (67.25.204.179 - 67.25.204.179) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:25 am:

KevGo - Be sure to let us know next time you're here. I've never been inside Gordy Manor.

David - I will write the names down, and try to remember where they were.

Livonia Ken - I live in the area of Rouge Park Golf Course. I have the "Fourever" box set. Isn't it wonderful? The Four Tops were right along with the Temptations in our house in the 60's.

Sue - I'll look up that address and go by to see the clock. That should be something. I know one of the guys who worked the sound system at Golden World. I am going to talk to him. Maybe he has some junk that he needs to get rid of. (LOL)

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:44 am:

Sis:
While I did stop by the Gordy Manor I did not enter the premises because I was in between appointments. I did take some pictures of the exteriors for my photo album.

The next time I'm in the Motor City you & I could see if they offer tours.

Regards,
KevGo

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:10 pm:

Sis

Ask him if he's got a pic of Ed Wingate, JoAnne Bratton or Bob Hamilton (LOL)

Seriously, ask him if he recalls Bob Hamilton aka Rob Reeco.

There's still time for my webisode.

Thanks for thinking about the list. Even the tiniest club!

By SisDetroit (67.25.206.10 - 67.25.206.10) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 01:57 pm:

Thanks KevGo. Now you know how excited I get about great events like that. I have time now since I'm retired, to pick up where I left off. I am truly acting like I was 21 years of age again.

David - Lonnie Turner did not come back as he had promised. But Lloyd came over and voluntarily played the piano and sung a gospel song. (No, I can't play the piano.) But it's here for occasions like that. That guy can really sing.

By Millie (207.148.197.36 - 207.148.197.36) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 02:59 pm:

Hi Sue,
Whenever you have some spare time, I'd love to go with you to see the "CLOCK"!

By Sue (63.85.105.20 - 63.85.105.20) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 03:06 pm:

Yeah Millie, let's go -- we can meet up with Sis there.

While I'm here, is anyone in touch with writer David Carson? Need a current # on him.

By Sue (63.85.105.20 - 63.85.105.20) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 03:14 pm:

p.s. I'm working while listening to Pat St. John playing the original single mix of Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On," (without Lem Barney and the Lions' chatter) on the WKNR recreation ...the guys who put the Keener broadcast together made me CDs of the whole thing.

Sigh. We need this kind of thing all the time ...

By Millie (207.148.197.36 - 207.148.197.36) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 03:19 pm:

ooooooh....please burn me a copy! I hafta have it!!! I've been e-mailing Pat...I dated him years ago when he was doing overnites on Keener! I used to sit in the studio with him just listening to that fabulous voice of his! Ain't it fun reminicing!

Can we go see the clock on Sunday?? If not, when???

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 06:24 pm:

On reflection I think the street address is 12th as I recall stumbling on it by accident.

Certainly at Collingwood however.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 06:51 pm:

Talking about the state of Detroit today I love Lowell's current gateway picture on The Fabulous Ruins Site.

http://detroityes.com/index.html

Makes you want to be there!

By thecount (64.53.143.173 - 64.53.143.173) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 07:44 pm:

OH YES,VERY KOOL INDEED.But why is it no one ever mentions we have an infamous island here in DETROIT? "ZUG ISLAND" We had a insturmental called "ZUG ISLAND GIRLS". HANNA FURNACE even has their own radio station there,RADIO FREE DELRAY,station KAKA,the brown spot on your dial.
So many sad days lately,I hope a little humor helps to forget the violence going on lately.
P.S.(we realey did have an insturmental ZUG ISLAND GIRLS.I made a copy on cd for DAVE KOVARICK) "COUNT"