By BOBBABBITT (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 03:09 am:

HEY MO-FU'S.............I DON'T GET ALL OF THIS NEGATIVE CONVERSATION??
FIRST OF ALL REMEMBER THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED THIS FORUM....I FEEL THAT THEY STARTED THIS SITE BECAUSE OF THERE LOVE FOR THE SOUL SOUNDS FROM DETROIT, PHILADELPHIA AND OTHER NORTHERN SOUL PLACES........THEY WERE HOPING THAT THE CREATIVE PEOPLE WHO WERE STILL HERE WITH US AND INVOLVED IN THESE SOUNDS AND PLACES WOULD AT SOME POINT
BE PART OF THIS INCREDIBLE SITE!! MUSIC IS THE MAIN TOPIC HERE AND ANY INFORMATION BY THE SURVIVORS OF THE MUSIC WHO HAVE BEEN LUCKY TO FIND THIS SITE IS THE ULTIMATE REWARD THAT THEY COULD HOPE FOR...TO ACTUALLY SPEAK TO SOME OF THEIR HEROES HAS GOT TO BE ONE OF THEIR GREATEST THRILLS OF THEIR LIFE!!!!! AND TO RENEW OLD ACQUAINTANCE'S FROM AS MUCH AS 30 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!
SO WHY SHOULD SOMEONE POST MESSAGES ON THIS SITE TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM EVERYONE WHO ARE POSTING AND READING HISTORY AND ENJOYING AND ALSO PERHAPS NOT BELIEVING THAT SOME OF THEIR IDOLS ARE WRITING AND SPEAKING TO THEM........
YEAH, WE ALL KNOW THE RECORD COMPANIES HAVE BAD REPUTATIONS FOR LEAVING ARTIST, WRITERS, PRODUCERS AND MUSICIANS OUT IN THE COLD.......
AND YEAH WHEN YOU ARE YOUNG ALL YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IS RECORDING AND GETTING YOUR MUSIC OUT TO THE PUBLIC.......SOME OF US DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT WARNINGS FROM ATTORNEYS, AND MANY OF US WERE TO DRUGGED UP TO GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT WAS IN THE CONTRACT...JUST SIGN IT AND GET A RECORD OUT THERE...I CAN TELL YOU PERSONALLY THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT I KNOW WHO ARE COLLECTING BACK MONIES DUE TO A LOT OF ARTIST, WRITERS,ECT...
BUG MUSIC PEOPLE ARE NOTED FOR THAT......THE FUNK BROTHERS ATTORNEY, FRED WILHELM'S SPECIALTY IS COLLECTING MONIES DUE FOR ENTERTAINERS AND WAS THE ONLY ATTORNEY IN THE USA WHO WAS BRAVE ENOUGH TO STAND UP BEFORE A SENATE INVESTIGATING COMMITTEE AND SPEAK AGAINST RECORD COMPANY POLICIES WITH THE MONETARY ISSUES IN QUESTION (BY THE WAY FRED REPRESENTS BLACK AND WHITE ARTIST)......SO, AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS, IT JUST THAT SOME THINGS TAKE TIME....NOW SOME OF THE ARTIST WHO HAVE SPOKE UP AGAINST THEIR RECORD COMPANIES HAVE RE-NEGOTIATED THEIR CONTRACTS AND SEEM TO BE HAPPY NOW.......IF ANY ONE OUT THERE IS FRUSTRATED ABOUT THEIR SITUATIONS AND HAS A PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED OR KNOW OF SOMEONE WHO WAS LEFT IN THE COLD BY A RECORD COMPANY, PUBLISHER, ECT.. #1...DON'T KEEP TALKING ABOUT IN A NEGATIVE WAY...FIGHT IT WITH THE MUSIC COMPANIES !! AND NOT ON THIS FORUM OR WITH ANY ONE ON THIS FORUM !!!!!IF YOU WANT TO GET ME PERSONALLY STARTED ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE RECORDING MUSICIANS AND THE SITUATIONS WE ARE FIGHTING REGARDING RECORD COMPANY POLICY YOU BETTER NOT STAND ANYWHERE IN MY WAY........AND ANOTHER THING MELVIN FRANKLINS THREAD DESERVES MORE THAN THE GARBAGE THAT WAS DUMPED THERE....BOB BABBITT

By Friday (63.208.118.21 - 63.208.118.21) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 03:24 am:

Don't get Babbitt upset.We don't want him plowing anyone over.Babbitt,you made some good points here.I pray peace over you. Friday

By Common (209.2.55.112 - 209.2.55.112) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 08:48 am:

Hello everyone,

I hope this post is taken in the spirit in which it is given, in a straightforward & courteous manner. I posted in Melvin's thread & it's unfortunate that because of the comments of one poster that got out of hand, it's denounced as "garbage". I learned & gathered a lot of info in that thread despite the turn it took. Understandably, when things take a turn for the negative, the positive is diminished. But it seems unfair to me that the conversation continues about the said poster, who cannot defend himself, because obviously, he's been banned. I think the point has been made already & I think if anyone has any further comments to make about/to him, it should be done via email. I think that is only fair. I'm not saying this incident should not be addressed here but when it is mentioned in two to three different threads, it's obvious to me that differences need to be settled offline, IMO.

Peace!

By thecount (65.56.187.100 - 65.56.187.100) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:53 am:

THANX BOB,I'll keep you in my memories and all you have given to our world of music.I will always love the two kinds of music we all lived with and love"ROCK AND ROLL".I will except E-MAIL,but am leaving here(EDDIE HOLLAND COMES TO MIND KNOW)anyhow,hope you remember me from our short acquaintances we had at "LIBERTY",and SNUFF GARRETT. With a tear in my eye,"SO LONG"
STEVE "THE COUNT"

By Larry (63.210.126.104 - 63.210.126.104) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:20 am:

Common,
I can understand your comment re: Mr. Babbitt's use of the word garbage. It perked me up too and much as I respect him deeply, yes, he crosses a line by using it, however, I interpreted it in the spirit of the situation. We're all emotional people. Noone's perfect, even Big Bad Bob.

It's obvious to me, we're all trying very hard to get over the hump, to keep this WONDERFUL forum Moving Forward in the Postitive direction it was going until (here I go) a few folks simply "Went Off" and others stood up to some needless personal insults.

It seems we're talking about Courtesy and not content any longer.

Displaced Anger seems to be the problem here.

This is such a rare site with so many amazing individuals that have embraced it, professionals and fans alike. If the whole thing ended today, I can honestly say, My Life Has Improved because of the unique Posters on THIS SITE.

We all know if you Dig Soul, This IS the place.

A toast and a prayer to all of you and I mean EVERYone. Aint nobody's perfect.

Larry

By Common (209.2.55.115 - 209.2.55.115) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:50 am:

I agree Larry that none of us are perfect & that the point was the lack of courtesy on the poster's part. I guess I just don't like to see all this "ganging up" on a person because of what was said. Again, I hope that situation is rectified in a private fashion.

Anyway, you are definitely on point! And a toast & a prayer to you too! :o)

Peace!

By good doctor (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:00 pm:

http://www.windweaver.com/email.htm

By Sue (208.232.121.87 - 208.232.121.87) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:17 pm:

Common,
I'm glad you're espousing peace and love -- it's more than needed on this forum, at the moment -- although I also think Babbitt's tough love bouncer approach is a good backup in case P and L fails.

However, as far as the poster being "ganged up on" -- I rather felt ganged up on when he launched an irrational attack on me, based on nothing I had written.

I'm not only on "his" side -- the artists' rights side -- I had a story published in August about the problems with record company contracts, and the lack of royalty payment guys like Babbitt get. So I was really incensed to be beaten up on for the polar opposite view that I've always maintained, here and elsewhere. Some people came to my defense and told him he'd made a mistake; I remember you just posted that sometimes people are different than they seem online.

Peace.

By Common (209.2.55.114 - 209.2.55.114) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:41 pm:

Hello Sue,

I didn't think that I was espousing any P&L as much as I'm hoping that something positive comes out of this. But if that's how it comes off, okey dokey! lol. Yes, I did say that about people being different online than off. Believe me, I've been on the "receiving end" myself, so it is not that I'm insensitive nor belitte the fact that you were attacked unfairly. Far from that.

It's nothing wrong with people coming to your defense. What I'm saying is that to continually(this is not directed at you by the way) to post 2 to 3 threads about the same subject/person, with the subject not present to defend himself, is what I meant by "ganging up on". The point has been made already & it's obvious what was done wasn't called for because he mistaked you for someone else. I guess I'm just hoping that everyone would just dialogue on the issue offline because as well intentioned as folks are by coming to someone's defense, it can quickly get muddled & spiral out of control. Am I making sense? That's basically what I'm saying.

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:53 pm:

Hey Folks:
I'm glad that we are finally getting back to what this wonderful forum should be about and that is our shared love and passion for this music and the artists who created it. As I said on the Mevlin Franklin thread, let's hope from now on we can get along peacefully and have a spirited conversation without venting missplaced anger.
Peace,
KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.113 - 209.2.55.113) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:58 pm:

Hey KevGo,

Got my vote on that one! ;o) BTW, didn't know you were a Ruffin fan. I noticed that in the other thread. Do you have any of his solo LPs/tapes? Would love to discuss! :o)

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 06:14 pm:

Common:
I have David's "At His Best" & "Just You & Me" LPs with "Walk Away From Love" and my favorite Ruffin track (which he wrote) "Statue Of A Fool", which could easily be a country/western tune as well. I also have some early Ruffin 45s on the Anna label ("I'm In Love" b/w "One Of These Days") and Roquel Billy Davis' Checkmate imprint ("You Can Get What I Get" b/w "Action Speaks Louder Than Words"). These are early Motown at it's finest.
Other than that, I have the Tempts LPs with David (GREATEST HITS [vol.1 & 2], IN A MELLOW MOOD, WITH A LOT OF SOUL, and the outstanding TEMPTATIONS LIVE!) along with a smattering of 45s too numerous to mention.
My favorite performance featuring David was from the Tempts Live LP of "Yesterday/What Now My Love" - David trading off verses with Melvin Franklin (reciting in French) while the audience goes crazy is simply amazing. I wish someone had filmed that performance at the Roostertail's Upper Deck.
Regards,
KevGo

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 06:26 pm:

I think you'll find there's a small army of David Ruffin fans onboard, myself included of course!

By Vickie (64.236.243.243 - 64.236.243.243) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 06:39 pm:

Here Here!
I am a David Ruffin fan too - became a bigger
one over the last year....

Vickie

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 06:55 pm:

From the inner sleeve of the cd.

Courtesy of Harry W and Universal.

I remember this when it was an album but unlucky for me I reneged at the time because I was not a fan of Live Albums....thinking that the magnificent Four Tops Live was a one off.

So if anyone out there is missing a copy, seek it out, it is truly a magnificent work.

And in a venue which still today oozes class.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 07:01 pm:

Seeing the guys like that, doing exactly what they did best, could be a token for the next 12 months on the Forum...

HARMONY

By Common (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 09:10 pm:

KevGo:

Another poster was kind enough to make tapes of all his LPs that he made on Motown/Warner. Prior to that, I had purchased a couple of LP's including that magnificent LP he made with his brother Jimmy. Now, I don't know even know where to start! :oD The only songs that I lack are ones you mentioned that David did prior to joining the Tempts.

I also have that Tempts Live LP & I agree with you that particular performance of David's is a great one. My other favs are Beauty's Only Skin Deep("Beauty's only skin deep...but ugly is to the.....boooooooone!") & You'll lose a precious love. It's interesting that you mentioned about wishing that this LP was videotaped. Don't know how true the rumor is, but it was said by a couple of people who CLAIMED to be there back in the day, said that there is actual footage of this performance. Don't know how true that is.

Peace!

By Common (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 09:11 pm:

I have that particular pic in one of my Motown books but in black & white. I like the color pic better!


Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:30 am:

Common:
I wouldn't doubt that someone may have filmed or videotaped the Tempts performance at the Roostertail because Berry Gordy was very big on capturing events on film or video for posterity and preservation. Who knows?

As for the pre-Tempts Ruffin singles I mentioned, his singing style was very different than what we've heard later on with the Tempts. On the Anna/Checkmate tunes he was singing in a smooth style without the gruffness that would become his trademark (although his way of articulating words in songs was prevelant in these early tunes as well). What also makes these tracks great were the background singers producer Roquel Billy Davis used. The back-ups were in the four part-gospel flavored doo wop harmony (the shape of things to come...).
I do dig David & Jimmy's versions of "Didn't I Blow Your Mind" and "He Ain't Heavy - He's My Brother." The latter brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it because the feeling those two bros had was REAL and moving. Hell, a corpse would feel the soul those two had on that track.
By the way, have you ever heard David's version of the Jackson 5's "I Want You Back" (reissued on the compilation Motown Sings Motown). What a smoker!
Gotta go back to work. Catch you & everyone later.
Soulfully yours,
KevGo

By LeVan45789 (166.107.76.234 - 166.107.76.234) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:34 pm:

I have this cd The Temptations Live! and I must say David's performance of Yesterday/What Now My Love give me chills and Melvin speaking in french is the icing on the cake. Big ups for Harry for remastering this classic live album.

LeVan45789

By Nish (128.239.202.115 - 128.239.202.115) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 02:51 pm:

BIG David Ruffin fan. I love his version of "I Miss You" and as far as the Temptations live, one of the highlights for me is David's background in the harmony of "I Wish You Love." It's not like he's a star on the song or anything, but his voice works so well in the Tempts harmony.

I wonder if there are any live versions of "Since I Lost My Baby." That has always perplexed me, the fact that this was one of their big hits and it's not on any of their live albums. Hmmm...

By Common (209.2.55.112 - 209.2.55.112) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 03:48 pm:

KevGo:

I surely hope that that is the case. This would be a wonderful addition to any Motown fan collection, to have actually see a visual live concert of the Classic Tempts doing their thing!

I did tape "I'm In Love" off a oldies radio station. Yes, David's singing voice is so different yet he still delivers an emotional performance. You can hear some of that Sam Cooke influence in there too, in the way he phrases the lyrics. BTW, Lamont Dozier had mentioned in a Motown book, that on those recordings, particularly those that feature himself & David on lead, are actually The Voicemasters doing the backup. He said that whoever sang the lead on any of the Voicemasters records, usually received the label credit. So actually, David's song, "I'm In Love" is not technically a "solo" song. But the latter you mentioned "Action Speaks Louder Than Words" & "Mr. Bus Driver, Hurry!" are the ones that he did on his own.

Isn't the Ruffin Brothers LP simply one of the best rare recordings that came out of Motown? Why this record didn't get the proper promotion is beyond me. The chemistry between David & Jimmy is effortless & they are so in tuned to each other.

Yes, I do have "I Want You Back" but I have to confess it's took me a long time to get into it. I guess I've heard the Jackson 5 version so long that all I hear is Mikey's voice! :o) Martha Reeves also did a version of this song but I didn't care for it.

Peace!

By Common (209.2.55.112 - 209.2.55.112) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 03:52 pm:

Hello Nish:

"I miss you" Pt 1 is the bomb. I like how David put his own stamp on it without making it completely identical to the original. I'm still wondering what happened to part 2. Maybe I should ask Harry! :o)

Also, I've always thought David really shined whenever he did backup. Matter of fact, I noticed his voice was quite distinct & stood out. That skinny man had some mighty strong lungs!

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 04:29 pm:

Common:
Thanks for the 411 about the Voicemasters. I completely forgot that they were the "secret weapon" on many Detroit-based recordings. What harmonies...
As for the Ruffin Brothers LP the album sold by word of mouth with some support from R&B radio (at least the stations I heard as a child)but unless one saw the picture of the cover on those now-priceless inner sleeves from the albums it was out-of-sight-out-of-mind. Too bad because they would have been soooooo successful as a duo.
I agree with you that it took a while to dig David's take on "I Want You Back" but for me I finally understood the lyrics after 33 years of hearing the original!
Speaking of rare video footage, when Public Television aired the R&B40 concert during their fund drive, the producer of the show showed a black & white clip of the Tempts performing "The Way You Do The Things You Do" live with a full band. What was strange about this video was the fact that the Tempts were dressed in street clothes and not in matching outfits! Have you seen this clip? If so do you know what TV show it came from? It wasn't Shindig or Hullaballoo and it looked like a local rock & roll show.
Any thoughts? Let me know.
Thanks!
KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.115 - 209.2.55.115) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 03:21 pm:

KevGo:

I found out that the particular footage you're speaking of was from a local show. And it wasn't that good. Someone I know has that piece of footage from a video called "The Murray K Show". I think it was out of NY back in the day. As a matter of fact, I think I saw it up for bid on ebay. I have some nice clips of David & the Tempts from the some of the shows you mentioned especially from Sullivan. BTW, The Ed Sullivan shows have been transferred to DVD & the whole 9 DVD collection is on sale for about $109. I think someone here posted the link to it.

Back to DR: I wish you had the last two LPs he made for Warner Brothers. They are excellent! Especially, "Gentleman Ruffin", which ironically was produced by Don Davis. Also, Leon Ware wrote a couple of songs on the LP, which is why the lyrics have a "sensual" overtones in them. It's pretty nice & David, as usual, doesn't disappoint on the vocal tip. :o)

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80 - 64.115.26.80) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

Common:
Thanks for the tip regarding the Ruffin/Warner sessions. Anything Don Davis did would have to be excellent.
As for the video footage, I had a feeling it was from the archives of the late Murray "The K" Kaufman (who was a famous NYC DJ in the 50s & 60s - he hosted many live shows from the old Brooklyn Fox theatre that were often videotaped for his TV specials). It was a little grainy but the performance was lively indeed.
I'll be back later!
KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.115 - 209.2.55.115) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 03:41 pm:

KevGo:

Ooops! Sorry! I forgot to tell you the name of the other Warner LP David made. It was called "So Soon We Change" & I think that was produced by Don as well. I maybe wrong but I'm sure someone will correct me. :o)

Peace!