By Flynny (213.1.128.183 - 213.1.128.183) on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 07:52 am:

Can anyone tell me anything about the artist on #10084/5...it's by "Byron".

"I just want you (for my own)"/"Whales wail".
Produced by M.Nolan and a G & G Production.
Both sides written by Green & Griffith.

So, who is Byron?

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26 - 193.122.21.26) on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:10 pm:

Flynny,

I've never heard of this one before. No idea
who "Byron" is - the writers would appear to be
the guys who recorded as the Soul Twins.

Probably G&G Productions = Green & Griffith

"Whales Wail" ?? - looks very odd indeed.

By Andy Rix (195.93.34.13 - 195.93.34.13) on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:00 pm:

Dave .. I used to have this 45 but gave it to Gilly ...only ever seen that one copy & vaguely recall it was not a bad backing track but dodgy vocal. Have u got a copy ??

By Flynny (213.1.132.238 - 213.1.132.238) on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 05:06 pm:

Yep, there's a copy sat on my desk, and yep the backing track is dead good, and yes the vocal is a tad weak, but acceptable...kinda Gary Haines-ish.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.93 - 195.219.7.93) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 05:37 pm:

Taken from a letter from Lester Tiptons agent,Ronnie and Robyn were a boyfriend/girlfriend act(they never did marry)that were popular around Detroit.They were white,in the post-Paul and Paula bag.MEL.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 07:14 pm:

Mel,
If I remember correcly, Robyn was the daughter of Sidra owner Joe Casey and Ronnie was his, I believe, unofficial adopted son.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.32 - 195.219.7.32) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 10:00 pm:

Ralph,many thanks for that,I seem to vaguely recall something on those lines,but I dont ever recall Ronnie being his unofficial adopted son.If I did then I certainly cant remember.cheers.MEL.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 11:04 pm:

Mel,
It's pretty vague to me also. I just seem to remember something about Joe Casey being some sort of gaurdian to Ronnie. Maybe someone on the forum knows more about this.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.8 - 195.219.7.8) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 12:34 am:

Ralph,there is no way that I doubt what you say,which after reading my piece over again,looks like that Iam.I would never in a million years question anything from a reputable guy as yourself.What I meant to say was,that Id never heard of Ronnie being adopted,be it,unofficially or whatever.MEL.(also Ralph I would never question an icon).

By Andy Rix (195.93.50.13 - 195.93.50.13) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 04:01 am:

I'm fairly certain that Ronnie was 'adopted' by Joe Casey ...... Dale Warren told me about this so I guess he would know. I miss Dale, he was such a cool guy

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.93 - 195.219.7.93) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 08:39 am:

Hey Andy,did Dale Warren have a hand in all of the Shrine Label records or a part of a hand in it?The guy most certainly left his mark on a lot of mighty fine pieces.MEL.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 10:32 am:

Mel,
I didn't think you were doubting my thoughts pal. I really wasn't absolutely certain of my own. Andy helped out on this one.Thanks Andy.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 10:36 am:

You're right Andy. Dale was very cool. Sometimes during sessions he would say to the guys " You've gotta be sharp to play in this band ". He was very good at what he did.

By Keith Rylatt (195.92.194.15 - 195.92.194.15) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 07:31 am:

Guys. If Joe Casey was the owner of Sidra, where does John Powers fit in? Keith

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.101 - 195.219.7.101) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 09:35 am:

I Used to have The Chantones on Sidra(S9008)called Talkin'and also Sidra(S9010)Called Let My Baby Go by The Embraceables.And unless I can dig them out on tape,cant for the life of me,remember them at all.Can anyone enlighten me?MEL(Totally Baffled).

By Andy Rix (195.93.50.13 - 195.93.50.13) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 06:19 pm:

Mel ... as you know Dale was Miss Ray's nephew & he had worked with her at Motown. This is taken from my sleeve notes for the Shrine Vol 2 CD which is due out this month
'' The last of the key players to arrive was the legendary Dale Ossman Warren. Dale was a true family member as his mother, Ines, was Miss Ray's sister. Dale was an accomplished violin player, classically trained and able to write and arrange for strings. He had been recruited by his aunt as an arranger for Motown in 1961 and Miss Ray felt these talents were exactly what Shrine needed to create a sound all of their own. A single phone call was made and Dale arrived three weeks later, ready for the challenge. Eddie felt that the team was now strong enough to start work on the second wave of Shrine product and so the creative juices began to flow''
Dale arranged every Shrine track, staring in Jan 1966, from release 106 (The Epsilons) to the end of the label.
Hope that was of some use

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 06:37 pm:

Andy

I love the Shrine albums as you know.

"One Gold Piece" is so briliiant and just seems to capture the atmosphere of the day.

Thanks for putting the story together.

David

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.68 - 195.219.7.68) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 07:39 pm:

Andy,many thanks.In your piece you mention that Mr.Warren was involved on all the Shrine singles,dated 1966 on the first track,The Epsilons(106).Now on my old tape,I have 30 shrine tracks listed and dated with all numbers.Yet my reference states the years from 1965/66.Have I got all my dates wrong?MEL.p.s.The tape is a good 10years old.

By Flynny (213.122.202.120 - 213.122.202.120) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 06:32 pm:

So, does anyone know who "Byron" is then? ;-)

If it's not top secret Andy, where did your old copy come from...was it Dale himself?

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.214.56 - 165.121.214.56) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 10:01 pm:

Bits and Pieces here!!!

There was a loose association in the late 60s between Larry Lick at Sound Records and Joe Casey. I was helping to build the studio with Stan Getz at that time. I don't know what the business relationship was however. Armin, who was a good friend of Larry Lick may have some insight there.

The first Ronnie and Robin record was done at Golden World Studios, which may have been Joe Casey's introduction into the record business. I remember working on part of that record with John Rhys I think.

In any case I will try to find the pictures of the Siedra Studio and post them.

The Green and Griffith production team was Johnny Griffith and Richard Green. Richard Green still lives in Detroit on the east side and has a good Gospel Group.

Pax,
Ed

By David Meikle (62.6.87.58 - 62.6.87.58) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 03:48 am:

Great stuff Ed.

We'd love to see pics of Sidra.

Rumours that Bob d'Orleans helped build the studio were put to ground in a recent telephone conversation.

Still confused after that call by his association with a Ronnie & Robyn record, I now have the answer.

fully appreciated!
David

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.214.56 - 165.121.214.56) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 07:35 am:

Hello Dave,
Bob DeOrleans designed and built the GW studios, around a Ken Hammond Built board with Gotham components,0 not the small Seidra studio. The Seidra studio on Wyoming was constructed by Stan Gets and myself long after the GW room. By that time GW was part of Motown.

The Seidra CR had the ever present Altec 1567 Mixers in a 4 track array, with a Scully 280A 4 track recorder and Altec 604E Monitors. As I remember I built a monitor panner and switching panel around OPAMP 425s. As I remember they purchased a used EMT plate, but I could be wrong as I worled on so many rooms at that time.

Now I must find those old slides!!!

Ed

By David Meikle (213.122.163.93 - 213.122.163.93) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 08:10 am:

Thanks Ed

By Andy Rix (195.93.50.13 - 195.93.50.13) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 05:46 pm:

David ... I got the Byron single from Frank Merrell .. i bought it blind cos i'd never seen that in the Sidra label lists. i guess it must be very hard

Mel .. dating Shrine 45s is difficult but Linda & Vistas (100) was issued around May 65 & the Cautions (104) around June 65.
The Epsilons was recorded in Jan 66 as were most of the subsequent tracks & was released April at the earliest but maybe as late as June ... Eddie said April & the Epsilons said at the start of summer so take your pick. The last Shrine things were recorded around Nov 66 and i guess, based on a photograph I have of Eddie & Miss Ray having Xmas Dinner with Harry Bass in 66, that they moved to Detroit at the start of 67

Andy

By recordboyusa (67.34.73.196 - 67.34.73.196) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 05:58 pm:

Sidra had some real oddities. The Chosen Lot were from Cincinnati, Ohio, but recorded "Time Was" in DeLand, Florida (or at least a few takes of "Time Was", according to the box I found at the studio). The Chosen Lot used to be "Tony & The Bandits" who recorded for Flo-Roe and Coral).

Another oddity on Sidra is the Valvano-Powers produced "Lafayette & The LaSabres", who recorded a full-length album for the label. Unfortunately I know nothing about Byron.

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By Flynny (213.1.137.113 - 213.1.137.113) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 06:05 pm:

What's the LP like, Jeff...any chance of a track listing?

By David Meikle (213.122.81.60 - 213.122.81.60) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 06:30 am:

Does anyone know timespan of the Sidra releases?

and Drew for that matter.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26 - 193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 08:25 am:

David,

Drew ran from around 5/67 to some time in '68
I'll have to check my database for more exact dates. Same for Sidra (66 - late '67)

Jeff,

Thanks for confirming that the Chosen Lot were
the same group as Tony and the Bandits - I'd
suspected they were but it's good to have somebody else confirm it. There might be some
Nashville connection too - I'll have to check my notes.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.120 - 195.219.7.120) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 02:28 pm:

Andy Rix,thanks for that mate.MEL.