By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.116 - 195.219.7.116) on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:09 am:

Does anybody have any Idea what happened to The Detroit Based Ston-Roc productions.All I know is that it was managed by Ted White,who was good at finding new talent.The first two records as far as I recall were by,(Sir)Mack Rice.Obviously well known by all.Who cut a track called,3 People In Love/Bumble Bee Woman.The other side was by,(at the time,not too well known)Cody Black,(who we all know today)and was called,Stop Trying To Do What You See Your Neighbour Do/Aint No Love Like Your Love.Is this company still about?I would be surprised if it was,but you never know.Many Thanks.MEL.

By keith Rylatt (195.92.168.171 - 195.92.168.171) on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:33 am:

Mel. Don't have much on Ston Roc. Graham in Tiawan will be able to add more I'm sure. Owner Ted White it was part of Tac Theatrical Entertainments. Artists - Ronnie Shannon, Cody Black, Mack Rice and Tony & Tyrone. I think it happened around '69. Keith.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.119 - 195.219.7.119) on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 01:29 pm:

Cheers Keith,I am hoping to find a bit more on this thread,as I am delving through my room,which has my Detroit material all stacked up,and not in there filing order is constantly revealing things mentioned on here by people,with me thinking that a lot of it is new to me,when out comes various items relating to the said items.regards Graham,I have been in touch with him,but will have to contact again as my P.C. isnt sending mail out properly.I Take it that it must be The Please Operator,Tony and Tyrone?Your not far off date wise,as my info is dated 1970.Thanks for your time.MEL.

By acooolcat (67.25.219.186 - 67.25.219.186) on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 12:58 am:

Mel - I asked Cody Black about his 45, but would have to play back the interview tape to tell you the exact details... but think his recordings were made in Memphis or somewhere - not Detroit. I'll get back to you - I'm in Detroit at the moment and will be back in Taiwan next week.
Graham

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:40 am:

Mel,

the Cody Black and Mack Rice are among the final
releases on Ston-Roc when Ted White had a short
lived deal with Capitol.

The origins of the company go back as far as
1964 when Ted White signed up Tony and Tyrone.

White as you may know was Aretha Franklin's
husband and manager at the time.

I'm trying to make sense of the label's numbering
system before I post a listing of their releases
(there are at least 10 singles)

Haven't heard anything about Ted White since
around 1971 when Capitol didn't renew their
licensing deal for Ston-Roc.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.19 - 195.219.7.19) on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 10:14 am:

Many thanks Guys,appreciated.MEL.

By Flynny (213.1.128.72 - 213.1.128.72) on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 02:08 pm:

STON ROC 102 - TONY & TYRONE - A FOOL AM I - ?
STON ROC 3378 - CODY BLACK - I STILL LOVE YOU - ICE CREAM SONG
STON ROC 6711 - TONY & TYRONE - DON'T EVER LEAVE ME - TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE
STON ROC O761 - RONNY SHANNON - ONE WAY STREET - ?
Additions welcome.

By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:48 pm:

The flip of 102 by Tony and Tyrone is called I May Not Have, and bears the number 101. It's a terrific uptempo song. Like the rest of T&T's stuff, it shows more Memphis influence than Detroit, but it has a great beat.

I've seen lists showing the flip of 0761 by Ronnie Shannon as Hot Stuff.

I have another Ronnie Shannon 45 on Ston-Roc, Determination b/w You're Gonna Need Me. It's a very good record, sort of X-Over style.

There are a couple of other Cody Black 45s that bear the logos of both Ston Roc and Capitol, but use Capitol's catalog numbering system. 2858 is Stop Trying to Do What You See Your Neighbor Do b/w Ain't No Love Like Your Love. Not a very strong record IMO, and it takes too long to say.

2807 is I'm Sorry b/w Fool on the Wild according to lists I've seen, but I haven't come across the 45 myself. But it seems to have a very good reputation among those who know it.

One unfortunate thing about the Capitol connection: In the late 60s and early 70s, Capitol was using what I believe is the worst substance ever employed for records (barring the back panels of cereal boxes and the like). Super soft, it gets scratches if you breathe heavily on it, and you can hear every little flaw. Absolutely awful, and easy to recognize by a series of ridges just beyond the outer edge of the label.

By Davie Gordon (213.18.222.34 - 213.18.222.34) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:56 pm:

Here's an incomplete Ston-Roc listing

101 TONY & TYRONE 1964
I MAY NOT HAVE (Johnson-Pickens) R4KM6709
unknown R4KM6710 ?

102 TONY & TYRONE
A FOOL AM I
unknown

[this may well be the flip of 101 ]

6711 TONY & TYRONE
DON'T EVER LEAVE ME (Johnson - Pickens0
TALKING 'BOUT THE PEOPLE (Johnson - Pickens)

0761 RONNY SHANNON 1966
HOT STUFF (Shannon) T4KM 0761
ONE WAY STREET (Shannon) T4KM 0762

3378 CODY BLACK
I STILL LOVE YOU
ICE CREAM SONG (Shannon)

5198 THE LUV BUGS
BLOW YOUR HORN
unknown

The label seems to have been put on the back
burner when Aretha Franklin signed to Atlantic
- Ted White obviously had no time to spare
to run the label while he was busy managing
Aretha's career.

When they separated White seems to have revived
the production, still working with Ronny Shannon
and taking on new clients the Dynamics - the
group had an album and 4 or 5 singles issued
through Atlantic's Cotillion label in '68 - '69.

The next stage was a deal with Capitol which
produced three singles issued on a light green
Capitol label but with a Ston-Roc logo

2762 MACK RICE
THREE PEOPLE IN LOVE (Shannon-Richardson)
BUMBLE BEE WOMAN (Shannon-Richardson)

2807 CODY BLACK 04/70
I'M SORRY (Black - Johnson)
FOOL ON THE WILD (Shannon - White)

2858 CODY BLACK 07/70
STOP TRYING TO DO WHAT YOU SEE YOUR NEIGHBOUR DO
AIN'T NO LOVE LIKE YOUR LOVE

And that's the last I heard of Ston-Roc.

White may be been involved in the ownership of
the Pickwick-distributed Black Gold which issued
a half dozen or so singles and an album by the
Dynamics in the early seventies - all of their
Black Gold material was written by Ronny Shannon
so it's possible Ted White was still there in
the background.

There are a few more Ted White related discs
(Tony & Tyrone on Columbia and Atlantic, Mack
Rice on Atco) which might be Ston-Roc productions
leases to majors for national distribution.

Any additional info would be appreciated.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.85 - 195.219.7.85) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 02:01 pm:

Nice one Davie,MEL.

By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 02:43 pm:

Hi Davie.

That Luv Bugs record is supposedly from '71, and the flip is Have You Heard What I Heard About Love. 5198 is a Capitol number, but one that should date from the mid 60s, so it may be that they didn't have anything to do with this one.

Since it looks like you're collecting writer credits on these, here are a couple: Cody Black, Stop Trying.... wr. by Cody Black and Tony Johnson. Ain't No Love Like Your Love wr. by C. Black, G. Burton, and R. Robinson (Rudy?).

A Fool Am I by Tony and Tyrone was also written by them (Johnson and Pickens).

When I find my copy of Determination I'll post writer credits for that, too.

Oddly, my copy of Ice Cream Song has no writer credits on either side.

By larry (216.23.183.2 - 216.23.183.2) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 05:41 pm:

Davie,
Are you in Detroit? If so, do you know of Sheldon "Shel" Rott who was an AR guy at Capitol in the early 60's?

He also partnered with Ricky Dee (Richard Drapkin) on projects.

By AH (67.25.177.141 - 67.25.177.141) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 06:02 pm:

Ronnie Shannon wrote the "Ice Cream Song."

By aooolcat (67.25.217.135 - 67.25.217.135) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:12 am:

I have Tony & Tyrone's 45 in front of me...
SR 102
A Fool Am I (R4KM 6710)
I May Not Have (R4KM 6709)

The label states" Motor City Sound" and has this address...1346 Broadway-Suite 608, Detroit.

Graham

By Davie Gordon (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:25 am:

Joe,

Capitol 5198 (old series) was Nancy Wilson's
"How Glad I Am" from '64

Capitol 5198 (new series) was a country disc by
Larry Jenkins from '83

Thanks for the Cody Black writing credits - the
R Robinson IS the late Rudy Robinson

I got the writer credit for "The Ice Cream Song"
from BMI - it's also the credit given on the Dynamics version of the song

Here's what I have on the other Ronny Shannon
disc

4663 RONNY SHANNON
DETERMINATION (Shannon)
YOU'RE GONNA NEED ME (Shannon)

Please check this info. against your disc when you find it and add to or correct the info - the
matrix numbers would be handy

Larry,

No - I'm about 10 miles south-east of Glasgow
in Scotland.

Sheldon Rott's name rings a bell but I can't think
of anything specific offhand - probably it's the
connection with Richard Drapkin - i did some research on Richard's writing credits a few months
ago.

As you've probably all gathered by now I'm fascinated with all the background people which
is why I tend to add writer / producer credits
where I know them to any listing I do.

The artists tend to get the lion's share of the glory but obviously without decent songs and
good production the records would be a damn sight
less enjoyable than they are.

Everyone is familiar with the concept of artist
discographies - what I've been working on for the last eighteen months or so is listings of the
output of lots of Detroit based writers.
It's time that attention was drawn to the careers
of people like Richard Drapkin, Marty Coleman,
Ronny Shannon, the Hamilton brothers and all the rest of them. I'm SOOO glad this forum exists
so that I can do so (hopefully without boring you
into rigor mortis)

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.47 - 195.219.7.47) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:22 pm:

Hey Davie,any idea who the background staff was on Oor Wullie and The Broons,by any chance mate?MEL.

By Joe Moorehouse (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:53 pm:

Great work covering the writers, etc., Davie. You're right that their contribution is too often neglected. I've dug out my Ronnie Shannon, and both sides are indeed written by him. Matrix numbers are T4KM-4663 on You're Gonna Need Me and T4KM-4664 on Determination (which suggests that, to my ears at least, they chose the wrong song for the A-side.)

On both sides, the label also includes the numbers 814T-4663. Exactly what part, if any, of this sequence constitutes the catalog number, I can't say. Note that the last four digits of it are part of the matrix number for the A-side.

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:20 pm:

Mel,

Of course but it's not relevant to this forum
so you'll just have to wait for the Broons
website. Noo awa an' sit on yer pail.

By Davie Gordon (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:43 pm:

Joe,

Here's the general rules for RCA codes

The Ronny Shannon disc shows 814T-4663

814 is RCA's client code for the label

the letter after the 814 part usually is the first
letter of the name of the client company
the T part comes from Tac Theatrical Entertainments which might have been the legal
name for Ston-Roc Productions. The last part
of the number is the RCA matrix number itself
omitting the usual TPKM's, S4KM's and all the
others. Why they only use the apparent "A" side
number I've no idea.

It looks as if it was up to the individual labels
whether or not they used their "own" catalog numbers. Tony & Tyrone' s first disc shows
both 101/2 and an RCA number.

Another useful thing about these RCA client codes
is that they give clues as to where the disc
originated - all of the RCA client numbers in
the 800's are from the upper-mid west, Illinois,
Michigan, Ohio etc. I don't know if this is
absolutely accurate but it seems to work so far.

I'd give you some examples but the info. is on
another computer.

A big thank you to Jeff Lemlich's excellent
"Savage Lost" book for making a lot of this
stuff clearer - it was from his book that I
learned the significance of client code numbers

By AH (64.159.100.69 - 64.159.100.69) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:54 pm:

Marty Coleman shouldn't be too hard for you guys to find and get his story. He supposedly roams and wander the streets of Detroit, according to his old friends in the Valadiers, totally spaced out.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 10:05 am:

AH,
I'm sorry to hear that of Marty. I was with him when his problems began and have thought of him through the years. If anyone has more informaton on him I certainly would like to hear it.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:07 pm:

Marty brought more than a little pleasure into people's lives with some classic tunes, not least this cracker co-written with Cholly Bassoline and the late Mike Valvano. Arranged by genius Mike Terry.

By AH (64.159.100.153 - 64.159.100.153) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:10 pm:

Ralph

Only Stuart still lives in Detroit and I hear he might be relocating to where the other two are at soon. They all work in the same business for the same company; some type of salesmen who are on the road all the time. I've got Jerry Light's phone number and Stuart's son email address.

My favorite Coleman compositions are "If This Is Love (Than I Rather Be Lonely)" and "Together We Can Make Such Good Music."

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.97 - 195.219.7.97) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:11 pm:

Jesus David,what I Would give for a Jimmy Mack.That is one total awesome record.Even the Label is superb,its screaming spin me.Ive had some nights listening to this Mega rarity(andthensome)It was reputed that James Mack appeared in the Clint Eastwood molvie,Play misty for me.You see him swapping over with eastwood in a radio station.MEL.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:28 pm:

Thanks for the scan David. When Marty, Cholly and Mike were producing together they made quite a team and they were a lot of fun to have in the studio. It's sad to here of Marty's condition and we're all aware of Mike's untimely passing a short while ago.
I know for a time Cholly was the road manager of Rare Earth but I don't know what he's up to these days. Anyone?? Incidentally,
if anyone wonders about Cholly's name. when he was born his father wanted to name him Charlie and his mother wanted to name him Jolly. They compromised and he was Christened Cholly.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:05 pm:

Nice one Ralph!

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:37 pm:

Mel

I always thought that they had struggled to find Jimmy Mack.

Are you sure that was him?

By Mark Speck (64.158.98.56 - 64.158.98.56) on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:36 am:

According to sources on some Northern soul lists, Jimmy Mack did indeed go on to become the actor James McEachin.

McEachin first appeared on TV in the late '60s (guest spots on Dragnet, Hawaii Five-O, et al) and became more visible in the '70s, even starring in a short-lived segment of the NBC Mystery Movie called Tenafly. He appeared in far too many TV series to list here, but was a frequent guest on crime dramas such as Ironside and Police Story.

In the 1980s, McEachin could be seen as the police lieutenant in the Perry Mason reunion movies and also as a cop in a recurring role on Matlock. More recently, he played a Supreme Court Justice in the short-lived CBS drama First Monday.

Best,

Mark

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.118 - 195.219.7.118) on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 08:00 am:

Mark,glad you replied to Davids piece,I couldnt think of Jimmys proper last name,and as far as I know it was Mr.McEachin that briefly starred on the Clint Eastwood movie.Another rumour was that Clint(being a Jazz fanatic,i.e.charlie parkers bird,which he was involved with)had heard that jimmy was a singer and if he heard anything by him I cuoldnt say.I think in the same movie he is seen at a soul/Jazz festival.Something tells me it was Wattstax but Im not 100% sure.MEL.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.76 - 195.219.7.76) on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 03:55 pm:

Wasnt it James McEachin that also sang with the The Furys,wasnt he on lead on the classic Im Satisfied With You?MEL.

By mhc (172.144.69.180 - 172.144.69.180) on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 11:11 pm:

I read through all this and kept expecting somebody to mention "Turn It On" by Tony and Tyrone, which was a hit on WKNR back when. I remember hearing it a lot; that was a great record.

By Flynny (213.1.130.68 - 213.1.130.68) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 04:19 am:

ATLANTIC 6712 - PLEASE OPERATOR - APPLE OF MY EYE
COLUMBIA 43292 - CROSSROADS OF LOVE - ?
COLUMBIA 43432 - TALKING 'BOUT THE PEOPLE - TURN IT ON
STON ROC 102 - A FOOL AM I - I MAY NOT HAVE
STON ROC 6711 - DON'T EVER LEAVE ME - TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26 - 193.122.21.26) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 07:32 am:

Flynny,

The correct number for "Please Operator" is Atlantic 2458 (11/67)

Columbia 43292 flip is "A Fool Am I" (3/65)

Columbia 43432 issued 11/65

By Lynn Bruce (64.233.239.143 - 64.233.239.143) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:45 am:

Ralph ,did you say Mike Terry passed on ?I first met him when he would come in to Sullivans bar to wait for his then wife,Barbra Adams who was singing with our band,Rod Cox,Mike Murdza,Ron Baltrusz.He would usually sit in with his berry and add a lot of bottom to our group.That was in "64".Flash foward to about 8 years ago and this truck driver pulls into Northwest airlines cargo building and outsteps Mike Terry,I was beside myself I was so happy to see him{it had been almost thirty years},we had a long talk and he was sick of the crap that went on in the music world.He ended up geting a job with Northwest unloading aircraft and doing other jobs on the ramp.He and I would talk about music everytime I would run into him.What a nice guy he was!The last time I talked to him was in 99 just before I retired when I spotted him on the ramp.We said we,d keep in touch,but you know how that go,s.If this is true then I,ll have to light a candle for him.An honorable man, humble ,and never was on an ego-trip.
Lynn

By acooolcat (210.201.192.218 - 210.201.192.218) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:36 am:

Lynn
Mike is still alive.
I met Barbara in Detroit last week and she gave me a wonderful picture of her singing in a Detroit club back in the Sixties.
Also in the photo are two white guys and I think one of them is Babbit's cousin. I'll scan it and post it here soon. Barbara looks drop-dead gorgeous.
Graham

By Lynn Bruce (64.233.239.143 - 64.233.239.143) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:53 am:

Man, Graham,thanks alot.I had,nt been reading this thread till this morning. It really started my day poorly on this gray,rainy day in Detroit.My spirit is starting to soar again.
Lynn

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 11:00 am:

Lynn,
I never said anything to the effect that Mike was no longer with us.To the contrary, Mike and I have exchanged several e-mails since the inception of this forum.

By Lynn Bruce (64.233.239.143 - 64.233.239.143) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 02:06 pm:

Ralph,in an earlier piece in this thread you mentioned Marty Cholly&Mike and to bad on his untimely passing.In my early morning daze,I assumed you meant Mike Terry.Hope I did,nt disturb anyone.
Sorry Lynn

By THECOUNT (199.178.209.4 - 199.178.209.4) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 02:21 pm:

LYNN,SAY MAN-YOU LOOK LIKE THAT THING I THROW PEANUTS AT....
AND SAY MAN BACK AGAIN
"THE COUNT"

By Lynn Bruce (64.233.239.143 - 64.233.239.143) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 03:35 pm:

Count,man your so ugly,your mama had to throw a sheet over your head so sleep could creep up on you!!
Lynn

By THECOUNT (64.152.158.249 - 64.152.158.249) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 04:21 pm:

LYNN,SAY MAN,YOUR SO UGLY THAT THE STORK THAT BROUGHT YOU INTO THIS WORLD AUGHT TO BE ARRESTED
HEE-HEEE. "THE COUNT"

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 07:35 pm:

Lynn,
I was refering to Mike Valvano, my former partner who died suddenly a few months back.

By Mark Speck (64.158.96.193 - 64.158.96.193) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:12 am:

Just noticed this while looking at the label scan on the Anorak Records site: the producer of Alexander Patton's Northern classic "A Little Lovin' Sometimes" is Jimmy Mack!

Same guy as our Palmer hero?

Best,

Mark

By David Meikle (213.122.110.49 - 213.122.110.49) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 03:31 am:

Patton's record is so special.

I remember reading years ago that there were number of "Jimmy Mack's".

Over to Davie G.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26 - 193.122.21.26) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 07:07 am:

Mark,David

The Jimmy Mack who did the Alexander Patton is
the west coast one ( aka James McEachin) - he's
also the man behind releases by the Furys on
Mack IV (his own label ?)

By David Meikle (213.122.106.151 - 213.122.106.151) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 08:18 am:

Did someone say recently that they thought that Jimmy Mack on Palmer was James McEachin?

I am intrigued by this guy as I love that 45.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.35 - 195.219.7.35) on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 05:47 pm:

Check out,No More Dreams by Alexander Patton(which I think is the b side to A Little Lovin Sometimes,not a bad sound.MEL.