By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 09:57 am:

Can any of the wonderful engineers or players here recall at what point guitar tuners made their way into the Detroit studio scene? I'm sure the studio veterans tuned quickly by ear but tuners sure are convenient and can speed the process up. Who were the first guitarists or bassists at Motown to get into this and what types of tuners were used back in the day? (This question was inspired by the "12-string..Mirage" thread revelation that "Going to A GoGo" used a Fender electric 12, an often nasty instrument to keep in tune).
Steve K.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:50 am:

Steve,
The only tuning device available during the 60's and early 70's was the Conn Stroboconn. I don't recall any of the guitar players using it though.

By Chollie the Tuner!! (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:29 pm:

Ditto for the Philly guys.
It was a pain in the ass to use though, with all of those strobe thingies spinning around.
Some of the guys just looked at it after smoking some Hawaiian and just ewnt "Wow man, check this out!!"

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:42 pm:

At least it was entertainment.

By mhc (172.160.224.147 - 172.160.224.147) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:49 pm:

In 1989, James Burton played on a tune on one of my albums. At his suggestion we both played together, him on Tele and me on a Danelectro 6 st. bass. It was a memorable experience for me, and I remember well when we were tuning up; I grabbed my Boss tuner and he walked over to the piano and hit an A. I asked him if he used a tuner and he said "Naw, they're no good for guitar". So much for that.. Needless to say, his guitar sounded perfectly in tune.

By Phillysoulman (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:57 pm:

One of my memorable sessions was with BB King fearuring Stevie Wonder on Wurlitzer electric piano. I have some great 8 by 10 shots of the session with BB smoking his pipe while playing Lucille with Stevie and myself looking on !!
He tuned manually and by ear as well.

By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 02:36 pm:

Hey , thanks for the responses, guys. The tuning issue is one of the first things that comes to my mind when hearing stories about 'cutting four songs in three hours' etc. in the Hitsville era, especially with the multiple guitar sections of the time. Playing in tune is underrated! I personally put off buying a tuner until the late 80's thinking that it would make me dependent on it and i wouldn't be able to tune by ear anymore. That's pretty much what has happened.
Steve K.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 03:54 pm:

The only tuner i ever saw was a StroboConn Paul the piano tuner used to tune the Wurlys. This was long before electronic tuners.

By Ed Wolfrum (165.247.229.233 - 165.247.229.233) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 09:43 pm:

Same here. But I remember the Conn Strobe Tuner was used more as a piano tuning device. Jimmy Siracuse said he did not like the electronic tuning of the piano as it "messed with the tempering" of the piano. Ralph, can you explain this and why?

I never saw any of the studio players, gits, bass, strings, whatever do anything but tune against the piano...by ear during that era (60-70s) at any of the studios I worked at. (Motown, GW, Theme, Artie Fields, Siedra-Sound or United or AGS)

By Ralph (209.240.198.62 - 209.240.198.62) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:13 pm:

Ed,
I could go into a long and probably boring disertation on the short comings of the Conn Strobotuner. Suffice it to say that they didn't take into account a factor in a viberating wire called inharmonicity. Therefore if a piano was tuned to this strobe the proper amount of " stretch " was not introduced into the tuning and the needed partials were not allowed to open up and interplay with all the various partials inherent in a viberating piano wire. The piano would have a rather compressed deadness to it. However the strobe was good for electric Wurlitzers and Fender Rhodes but these insruments didn't have wire but rather metal reeds and thick wire tines respectively, so they didn't emit the partials a piano wire did.

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:22 pm:

But Ralph, it is still interesting. On many a record I can hear slight tuning differences, which makes the songs more human to me. Those differences, plus the energy I feel went into the songs at the time, in the studio, make them special. I expect at least a 1000 words next time!

By soulboy (213.105.224.5 - 213.105.224.5) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 03:15 am:

The trouble is with any kind of electronic tuner of any age, is that all stringed instruments take time to settle in, this may mean re-tuning after the initial attempt. no electronic gadget can compensate for that. Indeed some musicians tune slightly sharp to allow for a drop in pitch.
I just wonder how the guy's at hitsville managed, their instruments must have been used quite heavily.

By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 10:04 am:

Well, I'm sure that the Motown guys used heavier gauged strings than the 'cobwebs' used by most rock-type guitarists ; that would help. Also there wasn't a lot of raucous string bending going on , but STILL. This is just another of those subtle ways that show that these players were more than just a 'cut above'. And the bass...even tuning to the 12th fret harmonic, I can barely trust my ears on the low 'E', let alone to tear through several takes of several songs in just a couple hours.....Amazing.
Steve K.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 11:49 am:

It's not at all uncommon for guitarists to touch up their tuning as they play.

There are many traps in using electronic tuners. First-off they frequently disagree with each other! They also give different readings when fed direct compared to the same note picked up by a mike. They are a useful tool for matching a tuning note but instruments still must always be fine-tuned to the key they are playing in and to the other instruments they are playing with. Just watching the LEDs on a tuner is one of the easiest ways to put yourself out of tune in my experience.

By Ed Wolfrum (165.247.229.233 - 165.247.229.233) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 05:01 pm:

It all boils down to EARS. Thank God, he has gifted us with them. Some are given special gifts like Ralph.

Bob, I agree with that accuracy comment. I personally tested that with a HP3325A Generator and Gillum G2s.

Artie had a tuner, one of those LCD screen things and was complaining that it was reading wrong when he was using it with a VARI-SPEED on his old 3M 56 machine. In any case I asked him how he was using it and he said tuning to A440 on the piano at the head of the track. I connected the 3325A to the input of his tuner, punched in 440.00 Hz. and sure enough it was right on!!! I disconnected the generator and acoustically coupled it with the 3325A feeding the bench monitor G2s and sure enough it said my crystal controlled, temperature stabilized, +- .001% accurate HP3325A was FLAT!!! At first I thought it was bad acoustic coupling so I moved it closer to the drivers and it made no difference. I wondered if it was a regulation problem from the electret mike pre-amp's current drain messing up the counter circuit as it was perhaps only turned on when the input plug was removed, to conserve battery life. In any case that taught me and Artie a lesson first hand. Don't trust those cheap tuners!!!

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 05:51 pm:

My StroboConn does the same thing.

And then there's AutoOutofTune...

By Paulie 3 Shoes (152.163.189.167 - 152.163.189.167) on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:30 pm:

I t'ought dey tuned 'em at da faktry an' dey jus stayed dat way!
Hey vito pas me da gobbagool!
hey, da gorgonzola smells like my middle shoe!
Hey vito you stunad, da gobbagool, NOW or else!!

By Eli (152.163.189.167 - 152.163.189.167) on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:37 pm:

Back in Philly, as I remember, we usually tuned to the Rhodes. The was a Stroboconn in the early days but no one really got into it except the piano tuner.