By chappie (63.212.135.6 - 63.212.135.6) on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 07:46 pm:

I'm looking for two records on Gwen Owens, "Wanted and Needed" on the Velgo label, and "Mystery Man" on the New Mystical label, recorded in the sixties. Please let me know. e-mail address sashi_47@hotmail.com. If you know how to acquire any Gwen Owens records from the sixties, I'm interested.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2 - 206.135.204.2) on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 10:54 pm:

GWEN ALSO HAD A LOCAL HIT ON VELGO CALLED I LOST A GOOD THING PRODUCED BY TONY WILSON AND BACKED BY THE SOUL DELEGATES RECORDED AT NEW HAVEN

By acooolcat (64.159.103.146 - 64.159.103.146) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 12:19 am:

Chappie - do you know the value of Wanted And Needed? I think it'll be getting close a thousand dollars now. Mystery Man.... I think this is the same recording as Mystery Of Love that was released on the Oncore label. Great record! You mention New Mystical label - I thought it was on the R.E.M. label - but I've not seen either. What do you know?
Stubass - I Lost A Good Thing was Gwen's first Velgo 45.
Graham

By David Meikle (213.123.40.79 - 213.123.40.79) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 04:05 am:

Thanks to Graham, I heard "Mystery of Love" for the first time last year.

For me, one of the greatest 45's ever released.

It's that good!

Gwen, if you're still out there, I wish you could tell us about this amazing record. In particular, I wish I knew who was playing bass!

By Flynny (213.1.128.196 - 213.1.128.196) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:25 am:

ONCORE 84 - MYSTERY MAN
REM 105 - MYSTERY OF LOVE

Two different songs/backing tracks aren't they...the Oncore 45 being the corking uptempo NS track with brilliant bass work and backing singers, whilst the Rem 45 is a tad messy for the NS dancers?

By David Meikle (213.122.159.110 - 213.122.159.110) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 07:30 am:

Yes, "Mystery of Love" is not a record to dance too, but what a wonderful piece of work.

Flynny, do you have a copy of it? I'd love to see a label scan.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.51 - 195.219.7.51) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 09:51 am:

Graham,Ive sent 3 E.Mails to you,but it looks like theres something wrong at my end.ILL try to suss things out,sorry.MEL.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.85 - 195.219.7.85) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 04:13 pm:

Gwen Owens-Mystery Man-Oncore(84).Velgo Records(001)-I Lost a Good Thing.Velgo Records(002)-Just say your wanted.I Think is ZTSC 51-C1000,(STAMPED)Not too sure,Flynny will know.And of course The Mystery of Love track.Im Not too keen on the Mystery Man disc,for some reason it reminds me of Little Carl Carlton,but the Just say your wanted,well beam me up scotty,a pearler that has always kept its rarity.I First heard mystery man a good 12 years ago and I think that I am the only one that isnt keen on it.MEL.

By Mark Speck (64.158.97.49 - 64.158.97.49) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 12:13 am:

What's her record on Josie like? The title is "Keep On Living".

Best,

Mark

By acooolcat (67.26.15.34 - 67.26.15.34) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 02:03 am:

I think I've seen Wanted And Needed with the Sound Incorporated matrix numbers and ZTSC numbers - was it pressed twice?
Mel - try this...
acooolcat@yahoo.com

Graham

By J.Smith (194.42.250.98 - 194.42.250.98) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 03:22 am:

Just thought you might be interested to learn that Gwen has just been added to the line-up for next February's Prestatyn Soul Weekender (Prestatyn is in Nth Wales in the UK for US readers).
As I have been assigned to undertake the Weekender radio interviews with the live performers (Gwen, Spyder Turner & Don Gardner), no doubt I will get to quiz her on all her recording work. I'm told her daughter (also a good singer) will be accompanying her on the UK visit.

By David Meikle (213.122.46.39 - 213.122.46.39) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 03:42 am:

Quite a scoop John. Spyder too!

By acooolcat (67.25.206.68 - 67.25.206.68) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 11:04 am:

I popped to see Gwen's mum the other day in Detroit and left her a copy of the Hot album that Gwen sang on.
I've spoken to Gwen a few times but she can't remember those recordings very well. It was she who told me that "Mystery Of Love" and "Mystery Man" were the same recordings, but perhaps when she hears them again she might be able to elaborate.
Does anyone have a scan of the Mystery Man 45?
Graham

By biggray (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 11:45 am:

Mel the Wanted and needed side was pressed twice! the first on the ZTSC# and also via Monarch recordings out of LA wich was sponsered by Mr Simon Soussan back in 75,I have a copy of the second press but a few friends have a orig copy and they say the orig copy they own jumps once on the middle of the song!!Have you checked out her Josie and Casablanca recordings,some nice cuts to collect,hey has anyone got a Discography of Gwens recordings!!! Biggray

By dowoplady (24.46.200.124 - 24.46.200.124) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 11:57 am:

According to Soul Harmony Singles discography by Hunt, Beckman, & Kline, this is what is shown for Gwen:

Mel-ady 100 - Lies b/w Rain (female group on both sides)

Lau-Run 1002 - Make Him Mine b/w One More Day (female group on both sides)

Velgo 001 - I'll Be Crying b/w I Lost A Good Thing (female group on both sides) - 1967

Velgo 002 - Just Say You're Wanted (And Needed) b/w Still True To You - 1967

Josie 1009 - It Ain't Hardly Over b/w Keep on Living - 1969

Unfortunately I don't have any of these recordings, so I can't give my opinion on them.

Nikki
http://www.harmonytrain.com

By biggray (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 01:03 pm:

Thanks Nikki,the Soul Harmony Book is a very good source of infomation but alas the listings are incomplete!! it should be brought up to date dont you think!! I have wrote to the publishers asking them if they are to release any other editions of this great book but have had no reply,the Publishers Three-on-Three Publishing hail from NJ I wonder if they have any on line facilitys!! if Jeff Beckman or Jim Hunt or Tom Kline are viewing these threads then please contact the forum, I am sure many of the contributors to this fab site will be more than happy to pass on there info to update the aforementioned book.
Oh By the way, I will be taking my beloved wife to se Gwen Owens at the Prestatyn Soul Weekender! it looks like its gonna be good. Biggray.

By Flynny (213.122.204.249 - 213.122.204.249) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 01:17 pm:

Original copies of "Wanted & needed" were indeed pressed on vinyl by Sounds Inc. and have their matrix numbers. Not all copies jump as the pressing fault was that some were off-centre. I'll take a WD if anyone can help?!
The possibly legal "re-issue" done on the West Coast in the 70's to satisfy the NS scene is on styrene, but again doesn't sport a Columbia ZTSC number. The flipside, "I'll be crying" was also recorded by The Fabulous Impacs on Bomb, on the flip of their NS pounder, "My baby".
Her Josie 45 is decent enough soul, but not really for the NS devotees.
I'll dig out the Rem scan Graham...the label is divided into three colours...got rid of a copy because it was cracked!
I think we discussed this on the *soul-talk* group once...I'll have a dig through the files to see if there's anything to add.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.115 - 195.219.7.115) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 01:30 pm:

Cheers Bigray,The Prestatyn gig is looking the biz.Jesus,not only Gwen,also The Cheating Kind Mr.Gardner and for me,I must try to get up there to see and hear the soulful tones of Spyder Turner,what an absolute shithot dancer of his,one That Ive had now,at least 20 years,I Cant make it anymore.As well as those take offs of other artists on his Stand by me Album.MEL.(P.S.)Gwen Owens,didnt she have a record that got played in the 70s on the all-nighter scene(late 70s,Mecca,Casino)called The Soul Of A Woman on the Casablanca Label?

By biggray (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 01:57 pm:

Not to sure about The Soul Of A Woman track but i can remember You better watch out cut that was massive back here iin the Uk!! it even made the pop charts me thinks!! Did you ever visit the Mecca at Blackpool Mel! I was a regular at one time! when you think about it the venue was cutting edge for the crossover movement,i can remember buying some great 45s from there.Can you remember the Rock Candy 45 ALONE WITH NO LOVE on Dontee! man what a record,Diane Jenkins I NEED YOU on Creative Funk wow awesome and then some!!!

By biggray (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 02:01 pm:

Flynny, can you post the soul-talk address please.

By Flynny (213.1.136.125 - 213.1.136.125) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 02:30 pm:

Bigray (and anyone else!), if you're interested in joining in the *soul-talk* discussion list, as well as contributing to this forum, then there's some details about what it's all about at:
http://www.capitolsoulclub.homestead.com/SoulTalk.html

By AH (67.25.176.119 - 67.25.176.119) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 02:31 pm:

Soul Harmony Singles is a great reference guide but even great ones have numerous errors.

They knew only one member to list for the Imperial Wonders and the guy they listed no one in the Imperial Wonders knows. Also a single attributed to them as the Four Wonders is erroneus.

Fred Deal pops up as a member of the Hesitations everywhere and there were no such person.

They haven't connected the Elements and Moving Violation as the same group, or, Odds & Ends-Unity-Three Million. In fact, Unity and Three Million are omitted entirely. There are many more.

But omissions and errors can be expected for such a large task. I would buy an update in a minute.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.84 - 195.219.7.84) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 02:47 pm:

Biggray,I First went to the Mecca in 1973/74 And stopped around 1976 when the 70s stuff started.Im afraid I dont share your enthusiasm relating to the stuff above that you stated.To me The Highland Room died when the crossover/jazzfunk lollopers began.I Am a devout 60s/4 beats to the bar lover.My collection dosent date past 1974 ish.(i.e.)Billy harner etc.Ill forever remember the mecca for BRICE COLEFIELD,BILLY PROPHET,SWEET-THINGS,JOHNNY MOORE,THE GLORIES,LADA EDMUND JNR,Etc,Etc.I Remember my mate paying 6 pounds in 1972 for the mega rare Lets go somewhere on v.i.p. records by R.Dean Taylor and we all flipped at actually seeing one.I HAVE A LOT OF GOOD MECCA MEMORIES.It just went in the other direction to mine.In its day surely the no1 venue regards sounds wise.As They say,its whats in the groove that counts,it would be a sad day if everyone liked the same sounds as each other.Thats the good thing regards music,so diverse in many ways,which makes for a healthy soulscene.Different strokes for different folks(hear endeth the lesson)BROTHER MEL.

By acooolcat (67.25.221.161 - 67.25.221.161) on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 01:40 am:

Thanks Flynny - the ZTSC numbers are for her other Velgo 45 - but I also have SIC numbers too. Was that one pressed twice?
Graham

By Flynny (213.1.128.72 - 213.1.128.72) on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 01:58 pm:

Yes...there's green label copies in the same design as "Wanted & Needed", and also plain black label ones too...not sure which came first...maybe the black ones were a rushed repress to cope with demand at the time, but then again they're rarer...it's a funny old game this collecting lark! ;-)

By JSmith (194.42.250.98 - 194.42.250.98) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:20 am:

I need help with bio details on Gwen, so perhaps acoolcat can help out (being a family friend) or any other readers.
Gwen, born Detroit but when, around 1950 I guess ???. When was her 1st 45 released (Mel-ady), 1965/6 ??. All the labels she cut for (Mel-ady, Lau-Run, Velgo, Oncore, Rem) seem to have been back-room moma & papa outfit's, is this the case. How come none of the bigger local labels were chasing her contract ?? Was her Josie 45 cut in Detroit for a local production company & if so why didn't it come out first on a local label ?
Did she just have the one solo 45 on both Casablanca (74) and Big Tree ((79) ?? Did she record for any other labels in the 70's ? When did she leave Hot and was she on just 1 of the groups 3 Big Tree albums (I have a couple of these somewhere but they are lost in the deepest piles of my LP's). I believe that Hot first went by the name Sugar & Spice, did they record under this name ?. When did Gwen relocate to the west coast ?
Hoping you knowledgeable lot can assist me. CHEERS

By Davie Gordon (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:27 am:

John,

I posted a Gwen Owens discography a few months
ago - you should be able to access it in the archives when Lowell completes the transfer of
the archives to the new server for this website

By winstonable (152.163.189.167 - 152.163.189.167) on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 04:59 pm:

The Soul of a Women 45 mentioned was cut by Margo Thunder.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.61 - 195.219.7.61) on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 06:23 am:

Winstonable,many thanks for correcting my error about the above record.For some reason It was on a tape list with Gwen Owens as the artist.Cheers.MEL.

By acooolcat (216.254.167.152 - 216.254.167.152) on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 09:35 pm:

jsmith - I'm in transit and will give you some answers/details when I get home.
Graham

By JSmith (194.42.250.98 - 194.42.250.98) on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:00 am:

Graham,
Many thanks for your offer of help. I await your input when you get home.

By Lillis (195.100.110.65 - 195.100.110.65) on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 08:35 am:

recommended site for scan of 45´s (incl Gwen Owens)
http://labelscans.anorakrecords.de/home.html

By Flynny (213.122.203.247 - 213.122.203.247) on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:51 pm:

What I'd reeeeeeeeally like to see is a good quality scan of the infamous WD copy of "Wanted & Needed"...anyone?

By biggray (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:52 pm:

Dave I have posted a scan of the Wanted and needed 45 but alas its not a demo,brother they are as rare as rocking horse s--t,only ever seen one copy and that was way back at Samanthas in Shefield in 75! Hope someone offers you a copy but the chances are easyer to win the national lottery!! Good luck mate. Biggray.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.76 - 195.219.7.76) on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 03:44 pm:

biggray,now theres a club,good old Samanthas.I Had some good times there mate.MEL.

By Big Gray (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 04:10 pm:

Yes me to Mel,two nice small but cool rooms of pure 60s soul,the organiser John Vincent is a friend of ours and is enjoying a current soulnight wich is in sheffield and getting good attendances,i have been to the Sams reunion gig wich was great,loads of face's that i have not saw in ages,the Samantha's as we know it is now called Starrs&Stripes and as been refurbished but still retains the old kidney shaped dance floor,I will send you the info on the next Soulnight if you like. ktf. Big gray

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.39 - 195.219.7.39) on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 07:46 am:

Taken from an official Motown Letter to me from Lester Tiptons agent or whatever.Gwen Owens is of course,in the group Hot.(she was under contract to Motown from late 1972 to mid 1974.While here she cut five tunes,which were,You better watch out,After the feeling is gone,If thats the way you feel about me,Everybody needs love and You made your bed.The track for the latter was cultimatley used on Magic Disco Machine volume 1.And the producer was Terry Woodford(same as Hot.MEL.

By JSmith (212.39.231.20 - 212.39.231.20) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 07:11 am:

So Gwen's Casablanca 45 was actually originally recorded for Motown, it is a strange old world.
That may explain why the song was cut a few years later by a Motown artist (Tata Vega if my memory is working?). Jumping back (??), can anyone confirm that Gwen's Mel-Ady 45 was actually pressed up & sold in the UK (by Ady Pierce) around 1982. If so, how come copies of it found there way back to the US ??

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26 - 193.122.21.26) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 08:23 am:

John,

Re the Mel-Ady single - there's some info. about this on the old forum. You'll be able to check the archives when the transfer to the new server
is completed. From what I remember Ady Pierce somehow got hold of tapes of a session Gwen did with Philly producer Weldon McDougall and issued
the tracks as a single. I've never seen one -
when I did my listing of Gwen's records I
thought it was an obscure early US issue.

By Flynny (213.1.133.231 - 213.1.133.231) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:33 pm:

Adey had less than x500 made up in the UK during the later half of the 80's, on a plain red label with large US size middle holes. The label name is his wife's name, MEL, and his name ADY.
He did indeed do a deal with Weldon McDougall for it.
"Lies" shares the same backing track as the Four Larks, "I still love you" on Tower. Richard Searling used to spin a slightly different version of "Lies" (same backing though)in the late 70s/early 80s on an acetate by "Carletta", whom ever she may be (possibly Gwen)?!
I have the press release sheet filed away somewhere.

Going back to the beginning of the thread...I wonder if the initial poster, "Chappie" got any discs offered in the end...yeah, right!!! ;-)

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.43 - 195.219.7.43) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 09:54 am:

Flynny,do you know if Les Wright and the Elbejays track called Baby Dont You Do It that came out on a Virtue Acetate was The United Four as was rumoured?Cheers,MEL.p.s.Ive just seen on my tape files that Charletta(as its spelled on here)that you mentioned on a Bell Sound Acetate.Obviously you know the 4 Larks side is the flip to the classic Groovin'at the go-go.MEL.

By Flynny (213.122.202.120 - 213.122.202.120) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 06:44 pm:

Sorry, can't confirm or deny your Virtue question, mate.

Did Bell have a studio of their own in Phillie???

By JSmith (212.39.231.20 - 212.39.231.20) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 07:42 am:

Graham (acoolcat),
Are you back home in the exotic east yet ?? If so, any chance that you can post the info you have on Gwen soon. Many thanks.