By Gee2TheRuff (152.163.189.167 - 152.163.189.167) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 02:55 am:

Hi folks. This is my first time here. Clay McMurray sent me. I'm the mother of David Ruffin Junior. Clay has known me over 30 years. There is something that is buggin' me and my son, plus David Senior and I have 3 grandsons who will need to know the truth too. The Vega recording ("Believe Me)"/"You and I") made in late 1958, I think, is supposed to be David Ruffin, under the name "Little David Bush". He had a "manager" at the time of Eddie Bush who wanted to "adopt" him. The song was co-written by Gwen Gordy and R. Davis, whoever he is. If my year is correct, DR was almost 18! My problem is, even though I have been trying for over a decade, I just cannot accept that it's David on "Believe Me". I think it's Eddie Bush. The musicians and backup singers would know. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks so much! I don't know if I can put my site here; if so here it is http://gruffproductions.tripod.com. If not, I guess the hosts will delete that part. Thanks again, everyone. Genna Sapia-Ruffin.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.184.187 - 213.122.184.187) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 04:00 am:

Hi Genna

Say thanks to Clay from us!

I'll kick this off by saying that R Davis is possibly Ronald Davis.

I don't have info in front of me but if it's him he was responsible for Gino Washington's "Gino is a coward". A Correc-tone production. Not too long after your date.

I'll check this when I get home.

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 09:50 am:

Hi Genna,

I've wondered about that record for years - the
first I came time I was aware of its existence
was when it was listed in a "wants list" of
Temptations related records some years ago
in collectors' magazine "Goldmine"

"R Davis" is probably Roquel "Billy" Davis
who was Berry Gordy's writing partner in the
fifties (he's usually credited as Tyran Carlo)

Davis later on was given the Checkmate label
to run by the Chess Brothers - Checkmate as
you'll know issued some David Ruffin singles
in 1962 - these were co-written and produced
by Roquel "Billy" Davis.

Davis was also earlier (1960) involved with Anna records so is probably the producer of David's earlyrecords with the Voice Masters.

Hope this is of some help.

By Gee2TheRuff (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:17 am:

Yes! I knew about Billy Davis, but was thrown by the "R". Now that makes sense. I know it was Billy Davis. He's in fact the one I think who took David to the Gordys. But I have to find someone who was on that session to know!!! Therein lies the rub!!!(At least I'm not alone in this! And did u finally conclude that the other side "You & I" is him? It's tough to decide, but I really think it is. His signature "s's" give it away. But the other!!!)

By David Meikle (213.122.29.16 - 213.122.29.16) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:17 am:

Roquel "Billy" Davis. So simple really.

There's a great pic of him dancing with Berry in Berry Gordy's book.

Thanks Davie.

By Gee2TheRuff (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:19 am:

And, David, that's sweet of u to say to thank Clay. I'll tell him, though I sent him the link to my post!! Nice to meet you.

By Gee2TheRuff (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:24 am:

Ok, now. Gimme a program!! Are there 2 different Davids and a Davie here on this? (Queer, since it's all about David. But he does stuff like this for me!) Genna

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:31 am:

Genna,

Yes - there are two different Davids / Davies
on this forum.

David Meikle started the website with Lowell -
his posts are usually "david"

I'm David Gordon but use Davie G as my signing
name on this forum so people can tell which
David's which.

It doesn't really help that depending on who's talking to us we're both either David or Davie

Bet you're sorry you asked ? - )

By Gee2TheRuff (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:36 am:

Is David Meikle same as David in Glascow? The computer address is different.

By David Meikle (62.6.102.6 - 62.6.102.6) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:37 am:

Hi Genna

I loved your pics of David at the 20 Grand!
Hope you can find time take our 20 Grand tour which you'll find under the "Soulful Detroit Tour" at the top of the page.

I'm David the co-host and I'm from Scotland, as is my friend Davie Gordon.

As you will see, Davie is close to being a musical encyclopaedia.

p.s. I was playing the "My Whole World Ended" album recently. Sensational vocals.

By David Meikle (62.6.102.6 - 62.6.102.6) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:38 am:

Yes I'm David from Glasgow.

By Gee2TheRuff (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:43 am:

Ok, got it. Thank u both. Yes, I did see ur link to the 20 grand, tho haven't yet taken the tour. Ok, so here's the thing: can u locate anyone on the session for me. (gotta go to work now, will get back later. After 8pm Eastern USA). Sorry!!

By Gee2TheRuff (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:44 am:

Yes, enjoy my site!! It's my labor of love. =)

By Number#1 Ruffin Fan (152.163.189.167 - 152.163.189.167) on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 05:01 pm:

Well, since we've recently found old Eddie Bush alive and well in Las Vegas via Chicago, and he says it's David on the record though it doesn't really sound like the Chess and Anna early David Ruffin songs. But David was just a teenager then. Why would Eddie fib about this? If he says it's David I believe it. David was the main singer then and he was very young at that time before his voice became seasoned. He certainly had another totally different style on those early labels I mentioned than he had at Motown when he became the gruff Ruff. So, since I heard old Eddie say it himself that it was David Ruffin, I guess I'll go with that. David didn't come into his own style until he was with the Temps and in his marvelous solo work after the Temptations. He was searching for the real David Ruffin before that time on the Vega, Chess and Anna labels. And, believe me, when he found himself he was the best.

By acooolcat (211.78.28.72 - 211.78.28.72) on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 10:42 pm:

if you compare those "Little" Stevie Wonder 45s with his 70's recordings you'd be pretty skeptical about it being the same guy.
Graham

By AH (65.238.127.251 - 65.238.127.251) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:18 am:

Hmmm, whether 12 or 50 Stevie Wonder sounds like Stevie Wonder to me.

I have that early David Ruffin record on a CD and it sounds nothing like the David Ruffin we came to know and love. If I wasn't told it was David Ruffin I would have never guessed or thought it was him.

But I believe it's David, some people voices change drastically from adolescent to adulthood, and others don't. A good example of this is Eddie Floyd. Floyd sounds totally different on his Stax recordings than he did when he recorded with the Falcons on Lupine Records. Floyd sang in a high voice and sounded white (to me anyway) with the Falcons. I can't connect the Falcon Floyd and the Stax Floyd at all.

By David Meikle (213.122.49.23 - 213.122.49.23) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:52 am:

I can't connect "Fingertips" with "The Secret Life Of Plants" either.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 04:49 am:

I also have copies of the Vega recordings. I fully agree with Andrew's comment regarding Stevie - his characteristic vocals can be heard on many early sides, but I too find it very hard to connect "Little David" with "big" David Ruffin - I can't hear "David Ruffin" at all. Still, I have no reason to doubt that it isn't him. Maybe we should simply be grateful that his debut record still exists, even if it is heartbreakingly rare.

By Eugene Brown (64.7.167.66 - 64.7.167.66) on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:37 am:

Hello Ms. Ruffin: my name is Eugene Brown, I'm Program Director at radio station WTLZ in Saginaw, Michigan and also a friend of Clay McMurray can you please email me at brownerb@iflint.com when you get an opportunity.

By KevGo (12.84.107.31 - 12.84.107.31) on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:28 pm:

Genna:
I'm a big fan of the late Mr. Ruffin. His classic "Statue Of A Fool" is my most favorite DR song.
If you could email me at KevGoMusic@aol.com I may be able to help you with some research.
Thanks,
KevGo