By NY-DELL (12.14.39.66) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 07:21 pm:

I'VE ALWAYS HEARD OF FAKE AND IMPOSTER GROUPS, BUT ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH VOCAL GROUPS, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF IT APPLIED TO BANDS......ARE THERE ANY FAKE IMPOSTER BANDS OUT THERE THAT ANYONE HAS HEARD OF ? A FRIEND TOLD ME HE HEARD OF A FAKE "FUNK BROTHERS" BAND IN CANADA, WHO HAVE SINCE CHANGED THEIR NAME BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE QUESTIONING THERE AUTHENTICITY.

By Eli (141.151.58.204) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 08:15 pm:

The has been an imposter of me, believe it or not. In fact there were several.There was a studio owner in NYC whosefirst name was Robert and his middle name was Eli and he put out a Bobby Eli record and there was another felow in the midwest who said that he was me and had relocated!!

As far as bogus groups go, the Drifters are probably the most "cloned" followed by the Platters and the Coasters.

By NY-DELL (12.14.39.66) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 08:19 pm:

Eli: OK THOSE ARE VOCAL GROUPS, WHAT ABOUT BANDS, I WAS JUST INFORMED THAT THERE WAS A FAKE TRAMMPS BAND AND FAKE KOOL AND THE GANG, ARE BANDS HARDER TO IMPERSONATE, AND IS THERE ANY TRUTH THAT EUROPE IS A HAVEN FOR FAKE ARTIST ?

By Eli (141.151.58.204) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 08:34 pm:

There are two Trammps .
The first group have all original members including the return of Jimmy Ellis , the original lead.
The second group have only Earl Young and Bunny Sigler fills in on lead s\and keyboard.

Earl.s act does most of the big Disco revival shows.
IMO the other one should as they have all original members'(and they own the name)

It is true that the bogus thing originally blew up in Europe in the late sixties.
I suppose that the show goers at the time did not care.
IMO the promoters should been exposed for fraudulent practices.

By NY-DELL (12.14.39.66) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 08:13 am:

ARE THERE ANY LAWS OVERSEAS TO PREVENT THESE ACTS FROM USING THE UNAUTHORIZED NAMES OF THESE GROUPS, AND THEN AGAIN HOW WIDE SPREAD IS IT HERE IN THE GOOD OLD USA

By Eli (151.197.47.171) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 10:14 am:

As far as I know there are no laws governing this and it is hard to prove who is who anyway.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:11 am:

In the past 35 years, there have been several fake "The Zombies" (Time of the Season, Tell Her No, She's Not There) groups touring the US at various times. The group broke up in 1967 & 2 years later "Time of the Season" was a hit. It allowed imposter groups to make a few bucks since The Zombies were no longer an entity. According to a Zombies fan site, there were still Zombies impersonators in the late 80's.

BTW - Rod Argent & Colin Blunstone (of the Zombies) are touring the United States. I saw them in Chicago a few days ago & they sounded great! They have a new album (released 2002) and have a new, new album coming out in late 2003.

By Reese (12.15.169.254) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:30 am:

Wasn't there an imposter group of Junior Walker's All Stars?

By Willy (64.27.205.141) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:16 pm:

I talked to Ed King of the Strawberry Alarm Clock and he said that right after the band broke up in 1970, that some agent went out and booked a fake SAC to tour the mid-west. The original band found out about this, sued the agent (and won) and reformed to do all the booked dates! If you want to see the all-time sham group, call up the current line-up of the Shangra-La's on-line (featuring none of the originals and looking like a band 1980's new wave band).

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:29 pm:

Willy, I agree with you about the Shangri-Las. Do
you know that the original girls tried to stop
them but their agent (who is married to the youngest looking one-Mary), Dick Fox, had trade-
marked the name. Now they give the originals a
percentage (very small) of their income and they
are not suppose to claim to be the originals,
but they do. Bo, the older dark-haired woman,
tries giving the impression she is one of the
twins and they pretend Mary (Fox's wife) is her
daughter.
But, look at the fake Marvelettes!!!!!!

By John Barry Sheffield (195.92.168.169) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:50 pm:

I may! but I doubt it, support a Tribute Group if the True Group where no longer performing but that is it all.

John

By stephanie (68.50.216.139) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 01:08 pm:

You guys are right about the fake Shangrilas..I remember seeing a picture of them and doing some research and I noticed she looked like Mary and they were trying to pass her off as a relative.
Willy we must be twins I remember reading about that Strawberry Alarm Clock fiasco and I thought this fake stuff was only limited to soul groups but did you also know that Dennis Yost found out there was a fake Classic Four running around..LOL
He put a stop to them though!!! People dont realize how rampant this stuff is.

I do remember reading that the Shangri las get a small portion of the booking but Fox said he tried to get the originals to go back out on the road but they wouldnt. Its a shame I heard that Mary Weiss can still sing and I dont know about her sister. I read on certain places all over the net they did a concert in 1989 I wish I could have film of it or seen it I would have died to have seen them,,,
Stephanie PS There are three groups of fake Marvelettes running around and its so horrible!!

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:14 pm:

Steve L
I saw one of the fake Zombies in 1969 at a little club in Hastings Mich. It was pretty obvious even to a bunch of 14-15 year olds. They had the worst fake British accents you can imagine and NO KEYBOARD PLAYER!! ("he was boosted in Texas" was the comment from the stage). Can you imagine "Time Of the Season" (or any of their others) without keyboards? I remember thinking "damn, two bucks down the drain".

Steve K

By willy (64.27.205.141) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

I would have loved to have seen the Shangra-La's in their hey-day. I've heard stories from their A&R guy that they were more wild on the road than any of the (all guy) rock bands. They were what all of us guys used to dream about when we were teenagers. Wild girls who could sing like angels and drink lots of beer.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:31 pm:

Steve K,
Wow! You saw the fake Zombies live. I figured they would at least have a keyboard player since that's a large part of the sound.
-Steve L

By john c (12.2.233.107) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:40 pm:

My small community college were bringing Fleetwood Mac (Bob Welch era) to the gynasium in '74 and I was hyped. My little school got Fleetwood Mac! When I went to buy tickets there was a sign warning that it was a bogus Mac. The concert eventually was cancelled.

By Eli (151.197.47.171) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

There is a bogus Len Barry out there somewhere.

By TonyRussi (68.210.9.227) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:57 pm:

Willy, I saw the Shangri-Las Live in 65/66 & they were good on stage at the time I had a Tiger Beat Magazine Press card and their road manager let me in to meet and interview them...they were cool but they did not care too much for the traveling they wanted to go home and they were tired of their stage outfits and when I asked them who their favorite artists were they said Tony Bennett and Frank Sinatra...I was kinda shocked about that.

By Fred (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 04:37 pm:

Several years ago, I was involved in a lobbying campaign to deal with the impostor issue on a Federal level. The Federal Trade Commission has regulations preventing an appliance dealer from selling you a washing machine with replacement parts without advising you, but there is no equivalent protection in regard to musical acts.

The campaign was ultimately unsuccessful for a number of reasons, including internal disputes among the artists involved in the campaign as to what rights individual legitimate former members had to use the name in promotion of their own careers (not necessarily going out as, for example, �The Big Noise� but as �Joe Smith of the Big Noise.�) In some cases, long-standing personality conflicts and personal feuds prevented any unanimity on a solution that would have required complete impostor groups from identifying themselves as such.

The bill that was actually submitted to the House (which I co-authored) would have established a central registry, Federally chartered but not funded, that would have certified individuals as authentic members of recording groups. Artists with the certification would be allowed to use the group name to promote their own careers, but not allowed to appear as the group itself without the approval of the trademark holder. Certified artists would be free from the threat of litigation on trademark infringement as long as they complied with the advertising requirements. Groups without a certification would have to identify themselves as tribute bands.

There was substantial positive response from venues and bookers around the country that they would promote the certification process and require any impostor group to identify themselves as such. Several hours before the bill would have been voted on, it was withdrawn in the face of objections by several artists that the registry would have permitted former members of their groups to legitimately refer to the group name in their own promotions. In order to prevent a handful of people (all of whom were legitimate members of the recording groups in question) from being able to claim their rightful share of the group reputation, a means of stopping the spread of out-and-out impostor groups was lost. It was petty and shortsighted.

In regard to many groups from the 50s, 60s and 70s, the problem is often founded in who holds the trademark to the name. Rarely was the trademark held by the actual performers. In many cases, the trademark was not even taken out until after the original group had stopped recording or broken up. This happened with the Classics IV, the Box Tops, and the Shangri Las.

In the case of the Shangri Las, Dick Wolf filed the original application, but it was eventually abandoned and replaced by one in the names of the surviving members of the group. The act that appears in Las Vegas is legitimately licensed to use the trademark, and at least the originals get paid. Personally, I am not thrilled by this arrangement, but at least there is only one act billing itself as the "Shangri Las" and preventing that would require a major overhaul of the trademark system.

The Classics IV was trademarked by a manager after the group dissolved. An entirely bogus group was put on the road and Dennis Yost was enjoined from referring in anyway to the group name in promoting his own career. This situation was finally reversed several years ago in Dennis� favor and the trademark transferred to his name. The same thing, and the same result, happened with the Box Tops.

The Vogues had their group name trademarked themselves, but claim to this day that they were coerced into signing it over to their management company, who put out a bogus group in their place. When the originals attempted to tour as the Vogues, they were sued for trademark infringement and lost. They are only allowed to call themselves the Vogues in 17 counties in Western Pennsylvania.

Larry Marshak, a New York promoter who is the unashamed king of impostor groups, got the trademark for the �Marvellettes� (two �Ls� on the trademark) in the early 70s. Attempts by Gladys Horton to challenge the trademark have been unsuccessful, primarily due to the lack of funding. Marshak, at one time or another, has also claimed trademark rights to the Drifters, Coasters and Platters. Many of the bogus groups appearing (often interchangeably) under these names work for Marshak, and despite losing a trademark case on Drifters to Faye Treadwell, widow of the groups original manager, continues to book these acts around the country. It is not unusual to find five or more groups of Coasters or Platters appearing the same night in different places.

By John (67.249.57.250) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 09:51 pm:

In July 1988, �The Zombies� played a VCU-area bar in Richmond, Va. I wrote a review for the local newspaper. These Zombies opened the show with a very non-Zombies tune, Richard Knight�s late �60s hit, �Everlasting Love.� The song had nothing to do with The Zombies and neither did this quintet calling itself The Zombies.
I asked the group's tour manager who was in the group. �I don't know,� he replied. �They just hired me.�
Later, the tour manager said Hugh Grundy, drummer with the original Zombies, was performing. But the Grundy at this show wasn't drumming, he was singing and playing bass, doing neither particularly well.
During two sets shortened by a unusually long break, �The Zombies� played mostly covers of �60s hits by British groups other than The Zombies. One of the guys kept asking the crowd dumb questions. For instance: �Does anyone out there remember the Beatles?� And �We're going to take you back to the '60s; does anyone remember Woodstock?� Before a fatally poor rendition of �Hey Jude,� a Zombie apparently tired to justify the performance, saying: �By the way, we�re English.� I suspect he was also drunk.
Members of the actual Zombies soon branded these guys imposters. Original Zombie Paul Atkinson, then an RCA Records vice president, said his questions about the group got him an invitation from its booking agent in Boca Raton, Fla., to stage a rival tour featuring himself and the real Zombies. Atkinson and his old bandmates passed on the offer. They also promised legal action.
According to Rhino Records, which had recently released Zombies reissues, original Zombie Hugh Grundy, contacted in England, was shocked and amazed at the apparent impersonation. Rhino also said they�d seen print ads claiming Rod Argent and Colin Blunstone were participating in the tour.
The imposter Zombies played in Philadelphia a few days after stinking up Richmond. Disc jockey Ed Scikay broadcast an on-the-air apology for acting as emcee for that show.
"This was the worst show I've attended in 20 years," Scikay said. "The group played only three Zombies' tunes and, at that, very badly. They came off as a poorly executed Las Vegas-style English invasion revue."

By stephanie (68.50.216.139) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 12:41 am:

Fred
Has Larry marshak no shame!!! Is he getting rich off of these imposters? What did he do before he got into the promotion business? When I see a fake group I see his name attached to it he must be a sleazebucket to have this many groups out there and fighting the originals and telling them they cant perform. If he had one group I would have some mercy on him but I read somewhere that when a group challenges him he always says "Let me manage you if you want to get out there and sing" and since he owns the trademark he can threaten them and that is what happened to Gladys Horton when she tried to get it back he threatened her....... I guess if you have the money anyone can buy a trademark but this guy knows what he is doing and I think its horrible to dupe the public and the artists..
Stephanie

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:46 am:

It goes back to the question of name ownership. In reference to the Fleetwood Macs, at one time in the mid '70's the group lost control of the name and another "autorized" group was touring under the banner. I believe it took a couple of lawsuits to resolve the issue. If someone has a copy of Mick Fleetwood's book, it should have the story of the whole mess in there.
Sue has mentioned a couple of times a "Marvelettes" that apparently contain no original members, but have (or their producer/booking agent?) control of the name.

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:53 am:

John "Sly" Wilson(Sly,Slick & Wicked),Carl Gardner(Coasters) and Bowser (Sha-Na-Na) are all members of a organization that fights the fakes.When the Ink Spots are appearing in 5 different places on the same night,you know somethings not right.

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 12:39 pm:

For what it's worth (a quarter, 30 cents on a good day)....
....there was an article in todays Seattle Post-Intelligencer about the reuniting of Colin Blunstone (guitar) and Rod Argent (keyboards) and a Zombies show these two original members are doing in Seattle this weekend.