By oceanside (167.242.48.41) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 09:33 am:

Hi
I thought you could give me some ideas on who might want a collection of rare records we found. My husband works in construction and contracted some work to do on an old house. The house belonged to someone who worked at Motown Records. In the house my husband found a box of old 45 records. After some research we found that they are really rare and valuable. We have audition copies of records from Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, The Jacksons, The Supremes, The Four Tops etc... They are Motown, Gordy, Tamla and a few other little Motown trademarked companies. We have about 300 of them. They are in very good condition. We are getting offers for this collection from all across the country. I want to keep them in Detroit. I find it hard to believe no one is interested in something that began in this area so long ago. I want to find someone who lives in the city who would appreciate them and know something about their history. All these other buyers are going to do is sell them off to the highest bidder. Do you know of someone who lives in the area who might like them?We would sell them much lower price than they are worth to someone who knows and loves Motown to keep them in Detroit and not have them sold all over the place.

There is also one record recorded for a baby named Brett Augostino Ales born 6-9-63. It is recorded on the Motown lable and labeled not for sale. Maybe an employee or someone had a baby at that time and made a record for him. I think his parents names were Mitze and Barney. I would really like to find out who this baby was.

Thanks for your time and help
Rhonda Brown

oceanside_2003@yahoo.com

By TonyRussi (68.210.9.227) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 09:52 am:

Barney Ales was a Motown Executive.You might contact Mrs. Esther Edwards office at the Motown Museum at 2648 W. Grand Blvd.This sounds like stuff someone sure didn't mean to leave behind.

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:41 am:

BEWARE!Sounds fishy to me.Very similar to some tales I've been told about roots blues music colectables.Call me a skeptic,but anytime someone offers a deal to sell something for less than it is worth,I want to make sure it is worth it.If they are not willing to let you see and hear these records in person before money leaves your pocket...
The mention of the baby record would be the legitimizer in any confidence game.
I am sorry in advance if I am wrong,but this has all the earmarks of a scam.I'm sure more than one of you would love these records and maybe more than one will end up paying for them and never seeing them.I hope I am wrong because if recordings like that exist they should be preserved.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:48 am:

I've been looking at this thread wth a bit of skeptisism myself. It pretty much borderlines the rule about selling things through the forum. Rhonda, you have been advised to contact Mrs. Edwards at the Motown Museum, which I feel is good advice. I will let this thread stand a while longer but will then have to remove it from the forum. Thank you for understanding my position.

By B. Foster (152.163.252.68) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

Hello Oceanside,

My name is B. Foster and I just came to America from a non-existent, but real-sounding country that is currently on a waiting list for a spot on the globe. As I was leaving the airport so that I could wander aimlessly, I stumbled upon a paper bag that contained 37 million dollars and a whopper with fries. Since I barely speak english and am suspicious of banks, I thought that perhaps the logical thing to do was to have you put all of your money in the paper bag along with the 37 million (there is room, because the whopper is gone, although there are still some fries left). We could then find a forthright, upstanding 3rd party to hold the bag for us, and if no one claims the money, we could split it. Wait, I think I see an upstanding 3rd party, who I have never seen before and don't know at all, walking down the street. Wait...sir...

By stephanie (64.63.221.248) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 12:23 pm:

Ralph,
Not that I ever will but what is the rule about selling things on the Forum? Do you mean anything or something that is musically related? Is this rule because if someone doesnt get the product or gets ripped off you dont want the Forum to be responsible like an Ebay wouldor its just plain against the rules?
thanks
Stephanie

By mel (81.174.192.106) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 12:46 pm:

Mr Foster
may I be the 3rd person please
I do not want any cut from the great find of yours.
My you are a lucky person
and very giving.
yours Daffy(oops sorry)
mel(andthensome)

By John Lester (62.49.61.57) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:41 pm:

Hmm...I'd love to see a scan of the baby record...wonder if it has a catalogue nuymber and a DM reference..

By oceanside (167.242.48.41) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

Oh Geez, First off, we had no intention of selling them before we got information about them. And anyone who sends money through the mail to someone they don't know for something they have never seen is a goofball to begin with.

I have contacted the museum and found out about the baby record and offered them to the museum. I contacted Mrs Edwards at the museum already. I am looking for information so I can see if they actually are valuable. I have no intention of selling them to anyone outside of the detroit area. I have never even gave Motown records a second thought before we found these recordsso I didnt know it would cause such a stir.

Now that I see the controversy over me even really having them I find it even more interesting. They must be pretty darned valuable to evoke this kind of response.... Just shows you how negative people can be...

Anyways anyone who has any information that would be HELPFUL to me and is interested in finding out more about them like me I would appreciate it. I thought that was what this site was all about.

For those interested, I will be photographing them and putting them on a site for all to see this weekend.

By oceanside (167.242.48.42) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

Ralph, since you seem to be the one in charge, if you would like, I can send you a few and you can validate their existence for me and maybe more people would be more comfortable. We have tons that say Gordy on them and I won't miss a few.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:11 pm:

Rhonda:
If it's information you want, rest assured there are those on this forum who can provide it. The questions I would have is who are the artists, what are the songs (the labels they were on we can pretty much figure out). If these records have the wording "Audition Copy" on them, more than likely these records were for radio DJs and TV music shows. "Audition Copy" records carry a higher value than a commercial release of the same song because the fidelity (sound quality) is sometimes stronger & fuller than the copy one would buy in a store.

As for the "baby record", Barney Ales was Motown's head of sales who ran a very tight ship when he was with the label. Brett may have been his son.

I hope this bit of info helps. If I were you, instead of selling the records, I would donate them to a public library or a library within the public school system in Detroit so that young people will have an example of the history that was made in the Motor City.

Regards,
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:21 pm:

Rhonda:
I will be in the Detroit area on Tuesday, August 12th through Friday, August 15th.

Instead of sending the records through the mail, if you email me your particulars, I could come by or we could meet somewhere about the collection. I work for a reissue label and I collect rare records. From there, I could verify for the Forum the legitimacy of your find.

I still feel you should donate the records to the public library/school system. But that's only my opinion.

You may email me at kevingoins@juno.com

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:26 pm:

ROFL...
Who's this B. Foster??? That poster is frickin' hysterical.

non-existent country waiting for a spot on the globe? Lol

By B. Foster (152.163.252.68) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:34 pm:

Larry,

You seem like a forthright, upstanding 3rd party, whom I've never met before. Have a french fry!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

Rhonda,
I am the moderator of the forum. Thank you for understanding our position. Keven Goins is a well respected member here and an extremely savvy guy.You would do well to take him up on his offer to investigate your collection.

Steph,
That's a good question. There is no hard and fast rule regarding selling things through the forum. I'm inclined to allow regular posters a little slack simply because we know who they are. For example if Ray Monette wanted to sell the Scorpion CD through the forum I don't think there would be a problem with that. We all know his credentials and his generousity to this forum. We just don't want this place to get the reputation that anyone can come on here to sell something. It's a forum, not a market place.

By soultwine (195.93.50.10) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 03:37 pm:

Kev
A library?. Where i come from (London,England) anything of value like that would walk out of the door pronto and never be seen again!.It's a difficult thing to decide on; whether they go in
a glass case in the Motown museum never to be played again or are open for people to loan from a library..I reckon the Museum makes more sense from the preservation angle but something inside me makes me think that a museum is totally WRONG for such life affirming music .I hope someone has some other ideas.

Phil

By RD (65.150.229.231) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 03:48 pm:

Soulwine LOL, the good stuff walk out of the libraries here too. It got so bad here that certain books like the astrology stuff are kept under lock and key and can only be read at the library. The good informative music books are checked out and never checked back in. It's the way of the world.

As for audition records, a whole box of a Linda Griner album produced by Smokey Robinson was discovered years ago in Los Angeles. The LP never came out.

By oceanside (167.242.48.41) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 03:51 pm:

What school did you ever see that they could sit down and listen to Motown records? I doubt any schools even have record players at this point in time. I would do it though if I knew they would really be used. I can't see it really happening though.

By nick (205.188.209.109) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 06:26 pm:

My grandfather used to work next to the museum when it was a recording studio and hung out there sometimes and knew quite a few people who worked there. He says that that baby record you are talking about was made for a man who worked at Motown and his wife had a son and the musicians who were in the studio that night sang lullabies and baby songs and printed it out with a label and gave it to the father. They only printed a few copies of it becuase it was just a little momento of the birth and was not meant to be published. That one is probably pretty rare since there were so few copies made. He said some of the demos were sent to radio stations for them to play and they will have a little hole in them so if you have any with a little whole they were promotional copies that they gave away for free.

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 06:31 pm:

I have Barney A's number in Malibu and can call him. I'm sure the family would want their stuff back.

By HW (68.36.80.68) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 07:07 pm:

So, why not Motown Records, who might actually be able to put this material to use? After, of course, Mr. Ales gets his baby record...

Rhonda, I will be in touch via email.

By Beware (152.163.252.68) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 07:18 pm:

Barney Ales probably have a box of that record. And who says it's is his property? They're promotional copies. Don't let these guys sucker you out of your booty Rhonda. Finders keepers losers weepers.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 07:38 pm:

Beware,
Please show a little respect. Harry Wienger is the real deal and is not about to " sucker " anyone.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.155) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 01:09 am:

Oceanside

I would be tempted to speak to Harry Wienger. Motown/Universal are doing a fantastic job with the Motown catalogue and they would be in excellent hands. As for the consideration, that is none of my business, but you could negotiate a credit on any release, or something like that. Harry, if I was to find a box of valuable old Motown material, you would be the first to know. I would be happy to share the treasure with other soul fans around the world and would not expect any monies. Being involved would be payment enough.

By oceanside (167.242.48.42) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 08:28 am:

You will be suprised to know that the Motown museum advised me that the have all the copies they need.

I then heard back from Esther Williams who told me that Barney Ales "might" have worked for Motown but she wasn't sure?? From what everyone here has been telling me and what I found on the net he did work there, maybe she is leary of the un-named country too so to speak.....

Since finding the records and doing research and learning about Motown and the artist and all the stories behind the music I am in love with the records. I am taking my favorite ones and putting them in Little glass covered cases that I found at Micheals and hanging on the walls in my rec room. I am giving all the duplicates away to the people who e-mailed me from some of the sources I was doing the research in. If I ever really find out who the baby and parents are I will give them the baby record if they want it, if not it will go on the wall too. If anyone is interested to see them just for fun I am photographing them and putting them online this weekend and I will post the url.

Thanks for all the help.

By John Lester (81.129.94.37) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 04:23 pm:

Thanks for giving us overseas folk the opportunity to see the photographs

By Tony B. (212.56.114.168) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 06:03 pm:

Hello oceanside!

If one of the 45s is on the Soul label, #35019, do not play this record!!!

It was mis-pressed and will permanently damage your hi-fi unless you have very special equipment to play it.

I am one of the few people in the world who has the specialist equipment needed to play this record.

If you send it to me I promise to look after it.

Regards,
Tony B.

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 07:15 pm:

Oceanside says:

I then heard back from Esther Williams who told me that Barney Ales "might" have worked for Motown but she wasn't sure??
________________________________________________
$ BILL asks:

ESTHER WILLIAMS?
Can't wait to see those pictures either.

By C. Bell/Eric (67.26.13.126) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 12:59 am:

Oceanside,

Hey! I can believe you about the record find because my father had an experience that was pretty close to yours. He stopped at a garage sale here in the Detroit area and bought a bag of demo tapes that were from Motown. The forum members were a bit skeptical at first but after he posted a few copies of the lead sheets that were in the tape boxes the doubts vanished. This stuff has a way of turning up around here, and what's even better is that there is a lot of it out there just waiting to be discovered. Congratulations on your find!

By John Lester (81.129.93.34) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 05:22 am:

Is there anyone else besides me who would like to move to Detroit!!!

By Julian (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 01:20 pm:

"BRING ON THE PICTURES!!! BRING ON THE PICTURES!!!," the Soulful Detroit inmates chanted as they rattled their mugs against their cell bars and banged thier utensils against the tables of the soulful facility. All hell was about to break loose.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 05:36 pm:

Julian:
LOL! And we're talking about some restless inmates, too!

Call me at my office on Monday if you get this email! I have to ask you a question!

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ian W (194.75.129.2) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 08:14 am:

This topic shows that wishes can come true - along with Weldon's discovery of x thousand records in an unused warehouse recently. I had a look around the attic and among the things I didn't find were: acetates of unreleased Detroit stuff, a whole sheet of Penny Blacks, Elvis' guitar, signed photos of all our heroes on Soulful Detroit and a love letter from Sarah Michelle Gellar.

"I'll Try Again Tomorrow".

By oceanside (205.188.209.109) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 07:48 pm:

Here is the link. I couldn't get them all on, it is just so time consuming and tedious. If you click on the pictures they get bigger and you can see the details.

http://www.pbase.com/gpwed/motown

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 08:17 pm:

If I could be so lucky! Great find Oceanside.

By HW (68.36.80.68) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 09:19 pm:

Amazing images - appears to have been a well-maintained collection.

BTW - I find it works best if you paste in the URL
http://www.pbase.com/gpwed

and then click on the 'Motown Collection' image.

Barney Ales was assuredly a key person at Motown Records, is alive and well and I am sure would love a copy of that baby record.

Rhonda, if you still prefer to keep in Detroit, I'd be happy to facilitate further communication with the Motown Museum. Or we can have a dialogue, as I've emailed you privately.


Harry Weinger
Universal/Motown

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 09:39 pm:

Very nice collection.Forgive me for being a skeptic for life.As I am a guy I reseve my right to be wrong!Take good care of them.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 09:47 pm:

Rhonda:
Excellent find. Many rarities in this collection of records. As a collector, I would not hesitate to spend my rent money on what you have. However, I understand your desire to keep the collection within Detroit.

Harry Weinger is a dear colleague and trustworthy friend of the Forum. He's a wonderful resource and he's helped me in my work as well.

I will be in the Detroit area tomorrow (Tuesday) through Friday and would love to see the collection just for curiosity's sake. I'll email you my cell phone number if you would like to contact me.

Regards,
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By oceanside (167.242.48.41) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 07:53 am:

What area are you going to be at in Detroit. I was thinking I could take them to Borders in Birmingham or Grosse Pointe and anyone who wanted to could see them there.

I have a couple questions. Will it hurt these records to play them?

Some of the paper covers are very old and stinky. Some even have a slightly damp feeling to them. The covers have done a great job at keeping them in good condition so I dont want to pull them all out of their covering without having some sort of protection to put them in. I was going to put them in little baggies but that wouldnt be the best thing if they have dampness on the actual record label, it might make condensation and ruin the label. What would I put them in?