By einnod23 aka DF (208.27.111.121) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 04:37 pm:

Tell me something, y'all. And many of you are qualified to answer this question...

For todays times:
How much would it cost to hire a musician to play for a record label

v.

How much it costs to maintain the musical equipment in your studio? And by maintanence, I mean 1) having to get the latest updated samplers, synths, and ProTools every couple of months. And also 2) having to tune your synths and keyboards.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 04:50 pm:

EINNOD23!!!...YOU WILL FIND SOME EXPERTS ON THIS SUBJECT WITHIN HIS FORUM...PROBABLY NOT ME...BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT MOST MUSICIANS ARE CONTRACT MUSICIANS...CALLED IN FOR A PARTICULAR SESSION OR PROJECT...AND NOT EXCLUSIVE TO ANY PARTICULAR RECORD LABEL LIKE THE FUNK BROTHERS WERE FOR MOTOWN!!!...DEPENDING ON THE MUSICIAN...IN THAT SOME GET PAID HIGHER WAGES THAN OTHERS...DEPENDING ON THEIR POPULARITY WITHIN THE MUSICAL COMMUNITY!!!...DESPITE ALL THAT...THE COST OF STUDIO TIME...ARRANGERS...ETC...PUSH THE PRICE OF REAL HUMANS TO A MUCH HIGHER COST THEN TECHNOLOGY...ONCE THE INITIAL COST OF THE EQUIPTMENT IS PAID FOR!!!...THE MAINTENENCE IS NOT A MAJOR EXPENSE...MUSICIANS ARE!!!PLUS...MACHINES DON'T EAT...TAKE BREAKS...OR BITCH ABOUT THINGS!!!...STUBASS

By einnod23 aka DF (208.27.111.121) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 04:58 pm:

Stubass,

Correct, Machines don't eat, take breaks or bitch. But they do have to be tuned. And studio owners have do have to constantly update their machines (get the latest edition of ProTools, etc), or their studio would be out of date! And maintanence isn't cheap! Something to think about. Peace.

By einnod23 aka DF (208.27.111.121) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 04:59 pm:

Stubass,

I get your drift. Peace.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 05:16 pm:

EINNOD23!!!...APPRECIATE YOUR INQUIRY!!!...ONE EXAMPLE...MY BROTHER HAPPENS TO BE ONE OF THE TOP TELEVISION MUSIC COMPOSERS IN HOLLYWOOD!!!...HE HAS HIS OWN STUDIO...WITH EVERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF RECORDING AND COMPUTER EQUIPTMENT NECESSARY TO PUT THE MUSIC BEHIND THE VIDEO TRACK!!!...ON OCCASSION...HE DOES HAVE TO COMPOSE AND ARRANGE FOR A LIVE STUDIO ORCHESTRA...BUT IF HE HAD TO WRITE AND HIRE MUSICIANS FOR ALL THE MUSIC HE DOES...THE COST WOULD BE NEARLY PROHIBITIVE FOR THE SHOWS PRODUCERS...SO DESPITE THE FACT THAT MY BRO WOULD PREFER TO USE LIVE MUSICIANS FOR THE SAKE OF THE ART...IT IS JUST NOT COST EFFICIENT IN THIS DAY AND AGE!!!...STUBASS

By einnod23 aka DF (208.27.111.121) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 05:58 pm:

Stubass,

Don't even go there with hollywood. For example:

Gone are the days of the great network orchestras:
CBS. There college basketball themes were catchy!
NBC. Legendary! Remember the NBC Sports theme in the 1970s? Love those trombones and french horns! Then there was the tenor sax solo!
ABC. (Henry Mancini do some scores for the ABC shows, did he?).

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 06:02 pm:

TOTALLY AGREE EINNOD23!!!...TOTALLY AGREE!!!...STUBASS

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 07:16 pm:

Donnie,
Synthesisers do not have to be TUNED, unless you have an old modular late 60's early 70's dinosaur such as a Mini Moog or an Arp 2600.

Sometimes some of the older synths suddenly become "classics" just before they are to be deemed junk and to be discarded such as the Roland Juno 106 , the Yamaha DX7 and the Sequential Circuits Prophet Five.

What has been a driving force behind the resurgence of a lot of these keyboards are the dance and hip hop communities where what's old is new is the catch phrase insofar as certain sounds are concerned.
In fact,most of the newer keyboards have all of the classic sounds in their sound banks, although for me I happen to like the sounds as they are on the original respective instruments.

Pro Tools is just the "flavor of the week" and does not make a hit..a great song does, no matter on what medium it is recorded.

Pro Tools systems can range in price from $2000 -$50,000 depending on the system, the amount of plug ins, the control surface, hardware and software.If I had my choice I would record to two inch tape and then transfer to Pro Tools for mixing and editing.
But if you dont have a great song it doesnt mean a thing.

By einnod23 aka DF (24.90.13.79) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 08:13 pm:

Eli,

Thanks for the education. I'm just trying to find a way to get good musicians back on these records. I'm thought that maintainence of these instruments would be just as expensive (if not more) as hiring musicians. And based on that thought, I asked myself "what sense does it make not to have good cats on these modern-day records". Maybe the days of Steve Gadd, Earl Young and Jeff Pocaro (RIP) are long gone. Sad, man, sad.

$50,000 ProTools. What happens when the next version of ProTools comes out? You put up $50G's for equipment which may be out of date in the next short period of time.

Your quote: "...if you don't have a great song, it dosen't mean a thing". If only the industry these days understood that. Peace.

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 11:16 pm:

Hi Donnie,

Pro Tools itself is modular in a sense and probably still be in use for a long time.
Unfortunately, it has become "industry standard" and too many "producers" are using it as a crutch.
There is even an "auto tune" plug in which can "microscopically" tune all of the notes in question both vocally and instrumentally.

Personally, I would love to start using live musicians again.
The problem is that there arent many engineers these days who know how to mike real instruments!!

I would have to go out into the tracking room and do it myself but that is not my job although I am proficient at it, in a pinch!!

Union scale is in the $300 per 3 hour range and most top of the line people get 2x and 3x scale and if not going thru the union, it could cost $500-$1000 per song or more, depending on the musician.
Top solo musicians sometime require a point or two of royalties as well.

BTW, synths are okay as long as they are being played by a real keyboardist, not some kid in a back bedroom step recording noe by note!!

Unfortunately, some of these "back room bozos turn out to be"producers" wasting tons of the company's money on "gahbage"!!