|By fortune brave (184.108.40.206) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 10:12 pm:|
I'm looking for information on the guitar player who played on Nolan Strong and the Diablos' "Mind Over Matter," he also played on Nathaniel Mayer's "Leave Me Alone." Nate remembers him as a white guy named "Chuck" who also played with Johnny and the Hurricanes and Rare Earth. Anybody got any info?
|By Jim G (220.127.116.11) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 08:48 am:|
If I may interject a related question, are there any listings of Fortune back-up musicians in general? I know personnel for Joe Weaver's group but I've been told by a couple of jazz guys that they played on Fortune sessions in the 1950s. One guy claims Miles Davis recorded for Fortune(!).
|By RD (18.104.22.168) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 09:10 am:|
Barrett Strong said in an interview about seven years ago that the guitar and bass player on "Money" were white. He said they got off of a bus in front of Hitsville did the session and got back on a bus afterwards. He says he never saw them again. I'm wondering if this Chuck was one of them or was it Dennis Chandler who says he worked on some Golden World sessions with his band the Pilgrims who had a local hit with "Plymouth Rock."
|By willy (22.214.171.124) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 10:33 am:|
Didn't Miles record at United Sound with Charlie Parker in the late 40's? I talked to more than a few gentlemen who went to Wayne State, that have stated that they used to hire Miles for their fraternity parties. That would put Miles within a few blocks of Fortune Records, so doing a session at Fortune wouldn't be that far fetched. After all, Fortune did released Kenny Burrell's first record (45).
|By Keith Rylattk (126.96.36.199) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:01 am:|
In a UK Blues magazine in the 80's there is an article on Fortune and it mentions Melvin Davis as a drummer at Fortune. Can anyone confirm this? Keith
|By mhc (188.8.131.52) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:10 am:|
Reading this thread is making me miss my good friend, the late Cub Koda. Cub loved Fortune Records stuff better than most anything, and he did once tell me the name of the guitar player on "Mind Over Matter", and other Fortune sides (Bob Somebody?).. Whoever it is he was great, to state the obvious. When he plays those barre chords right after Nolan sings "I'll be so nice to you..", it sounds like he gave lessons to Keith Richards.
|By mhc (184.108.40.206) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:14 am:|
P.S.: Like another good friend of mine, Dan Bourgoise, once said to me, with a very serious look on his face, "There is no better record than 'Mind Over Matter'"..
|By Jim G (220.127.116.11) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:21 am:|
Willy, yes Miles did record with Bird at United Sound in 1948. And Miles lived here for several months in 1953. Miles stayed on the westside, near the Blue Bird Inn, his major employer.
Playing a gig a few blocks from Fortune, like the hearsay, is tantalizing. And a session would be a quick source of cash. Maybe it's true...that's why I'm curious about any session sheets or other related documents. Harold McKinney told me he, too, recorded for Fortune. So there was contact between the jazz community and Fortune.
Kenny's first record, with BuBu Turner, was released in 1954 (according to my information) but KB told me it was recorded in the late 40s. Do you have any information on the recording date?
|By Fury13 (18.104.22.168) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 01:56 pm:|
I wouldn't be surprised if Melvin Davis worked on some Fortune sessions as a drummer, since Fortune released his "I Won't Be Your Fool"/"Playboy" (Fortune 551) in 1963. Someone should ask him about this.
|By willy (22.214.171.124) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 03:04 pm:|
I own the Burrell record, but I couldn't tell you anything about the date. If you get a chance shoot me an email at the station. I want to talk to you about a project that I'm going to be working on, that could use your expertise. Also
for the Nolan Strong record, RJ introduced me to the guy who played guitar on it, he is now a middle aged gentlemen, who's name I can't remember. But he was 16 at the time they recorded.
|By the count (126.96.36.199) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 01:51 pm:|
HEY FORTUNE,I knew a Chuck Chitikin who went with Johnny and Hurricanes for a short stint. Is this the CHUCKIE you are refering to?
I meet Chuck when I was with the 5ive Invictas,and he was from my neighborhood,we were about the same age and he started out with the teen beats.Rod Cox(Richards)from the Sunliners(RARE EARTH)knows of him well and Rod was also a teen beat.
Hope this helps.
|By LTLFTC (188.8.131.52) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 02:34 pm:|
I think Bob "Chico" Edwards is the name of the guy who usually played on Nolan Strong records----evidently not 'Mind over Matter' though...
|By R&B (184.108.40.206) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:38 am:|
I'VE NEVER HEARD THE ORIGINAL NOLAN STRONG VERSION,BUT I HAVE THE PIRATES[TEMPS]VERSION NAD IT ROCKS!
|By Fury13 (220.127.116.11) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 03:50 pm:|
R&B, you need to hear the Nolan Strong (the Diablos are on there too, but uncredited) version... it's a little masterpiece. It made the Cash Box charts nationally (#82) in the fall of 1962.
Count, where is this Chuck Chitikin now? Maybe Rod Richards can chime in...
|By Joe Moorehouse (18.104.22.168) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 04:22 pm:|
Mind Over Matter might just be my favorite single ever--it's brilliant from beginning to end, and yeah, the guitar work is dynamite. Sorry to say that I can't name that player. I have talked to Melvin Davis about his days at Fortune, though; he started hanging around the studio when he was in his teens, and spent tons of time there. What particular records he plays on, I can't say, but he has some great info about the studio--he told me that sometimes there was just one microphone in the middle of the room and they would physically move the instruments around and put up screens until they got the sound they wanted.
|By fortune brave (22.214.171.124) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 11:26 pm:|
Yup, I can honestly say that Mind Over Matter is my favorite song of all time--and that's relegating some serious tunes to second place...but it just has everything. Every instrument is doing something distinctly different and there are elements of so many musical styles at work simultaneously. Then--bam!--the solo that we speak of so reverently just threatens to shake the songs' very foundations, though there's no stoppin' that drummer! (Melvin Davis?!?! Just wishful thinking...)
Anyway, thanks for all the information, I should have started this thread a long time ago. I do know that Bob "Chico" Edwards has often been credited as the guitar player on Mind Over Matter strictly out of assumption, because he was the Diablos' guitarist for years, but it sounds like the Count may be on the right track! We'll get to the bottom of this sooner or later! Count, please email me at the above address and let me know how to get in touch with you.
|By mhc (126.96.36.199) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 11:48 pm:|
That's another amazing thing about "Mind Over Matter": for a Fortune record it's really well engineered. So many Fortune records sound like they got on tape by accident. And like somebody mentioned above, lots of Andre Williams classics, like "Jailbait". "Is It True?" and others were recorded with just one microphone..
|By Fury13 (188.8.131.52) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 12:13 pm:|
According to Jay Johnson (bass for the Diablos), the backing band on "Mind Over Matter" is definitely not Joe Weaver's Blue Notes, as is true on many of the earlier Diablos sides. Also, Jay confirmed that Bob Edwards is not on the record; he left the Diablos some time earlier.
|By Lynn Bruce (184.108.40.206) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:33 pm:|
Count,when was this Chuck with Johnny and the Hurricanes? Guitar player Dave Yorko was the first to quit Johnny and we replaced him with a guy called Chuck. The only thing is that I thought this Chuck was from Toledo.
Then a few weeks later Butch the bass player quit,then about four weeks later myself and Paul the organ player quit. We then reformed without Johnny and worked together for about four more years.
This all happend a few months after Johnny had decided to ditch Harry Balk and Irving Mechanic sp? as our managers. So I'm wondering if this is the same Chuck or not.
Say Count,I heard that the police were at your house last night.It seems your neighbor called the police cause you were "gittin down" playing Pat Boone cranked up full volume,wearing your white bucks,and and getting all loud about who won the scrabble game.Oh yea!!!
|By the count (220.127.116.11) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:42 pm:|
HEY LYNN,CHUCKIE was a DETROITER,and it was about that time when D.Y. quit the Hurricanes.
I'll get ROD COX to fill us in some more on this,he left the T.B.'s about the time CHUCKIE did.
HEY,that was yo mama playing Scrab and PAT BOONE,then the policeman broke her arm and shes so fat gravey was pouring out of her bones.
Hey,kruise nite tomorrow at V.F.W.,last Tues over 2wo hundred kars,good turn-out.
Be there or be square.
|By Lynn Bruce (18.104.22.168) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:56 pm:|
Count, I'll be there in my U.S.Marine t-shirt,and Salvation army scivvys.
P.S.The only reason they didn't get your mama is she was in the garage making out with the local football team.Hoo ahhhh
|By the count (22.214.171.124) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 02:09 pm:|
HEY LYNN,arent those threads your everyday VESHESWAHS?
SAY MAN,I would of been yo daddy if that GERMAN SHEPERD wouldn't of beatin me over the fence.
na-na-na-na lookie here/></%#@*&*&^%
|By lynn bruce (126.96.36.199) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 05:03 pm:|
Say Count,I guess that makes me your grandson cause everybody KNOWS that that dogs YOUR daddy!!
If I'm lyin I'm dyin!!oh yea
|By the count (188.8.131.52) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 06:30 pm:|
LYNN,say man,speaking of dogs,
I gave your girl a hickey the other nite and got a mouth full of hair.heeee-he,tha rite.
HEY,it looks like yo process took a recess.
|By Fury13 (184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 02:23 pm:|
I talked to R.J. Spangler last night and he said that the drummer on "Mind Over Matter" was Vinnie Scalabrino (don't know if that's spelled right) and that the bass player was John Fraga. He knows both of those guys and said he could ask them about the elusive guitar player.
Do either of those two names above ring a bell with our veteran Detroit musicians on the forum?