By medusa9e2003 (66.73.11.123) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 09:11 am:

I'm sorry, BUT..15 or 20 mins ago, I was watching 'Today' show and they had Ashanti as a performing guest...and I'm so sorry but she should B arrested 4 singing N public. She is a beautiful young Lady physically and probably has a nice personality (?anyone?), she'd make a very
good Model or Film Star. How did she get popular with her singing voice, what's her secret?
well..maybe it's the looks huh???ok, maybe that's it...it's gotta B.

By Tony Russi (68.18.227.45) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 09:15 am:

You are right Medussa, a model, an actress(?) but a singer she is NOT.

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:18 am:

We also watched it and yes, the girl is dreadful as a "singer".

The thing is, that she and all of the other non singers out there, are all that today's youth have to go by.
We are the victims of record company a&r people who are clueless, tone deaf idiots, a lot of them who come from DJ background who are mainly concerned about "the beats" (the track, groove etc) and are clueless when it comes to good vocals. Give them a pretty face and T&A to go along with that face and..voila...you got it!!!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:25 am:

Hooooboy, here we go again.....(forgive me, Smokey!)

And to think, my bus passed right by the Today Show set this morning...I had no idea it was Ashanti...

Don't worry, folks - Kenny Loggins will be on the Saturday morning edition of the Today Show tommorow, so there's hope for us grown ups!

Now, can we please leave this poor Ashanti child alone and just pray she finds a good vocal coach....

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By stephanie (64.63.221.192) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:31 am:

When I read what Bobby Eli had to say I must agree with him.If you ever have a worst singer poll everyone and their mom says Ashanti. This is one of the biggest mysteries to me. I prefer Beyonce with her group something solo about her doesnt move me. Out of all the young bucks out there with no talent I have to give Christine Aguilera (although I dont like her new image) her props she can sing and so can Mary J Blige she can at least perform. Even TLC and Salt and Pepa had some remote talent they could perform and were fun to watch. This Faith person and Mya and all of these others and especially Pink disturb me. Even Eminem can perform and he raps from the heart. Beyonce can carry a tune but she is a far better singer than Ashanti and Aliyah was a better singer than Ashanti. Mick Jagger cant sing but he can perform and he and the Stones can write songs. Ashanti should be taken off of the airwaves if this is what Music is coming to then its time for all of us to start selling cars with STUBASS....
Stephanie PS Not that selling cars is bad Angel Daddy I just said that to have something to say.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:37 am:

Stephanie & company:
I'm not disagreeing with Bobby Eli about Ashanti. Hell, I have sales clerks at my record store who are Ashanti's age or younger and they all think she's a horrible singer.

Like we've said before, music goes in cycles and soon her time will pass...

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:48 am:

How ironic that I should come on line to read this thread. Being on the West Coast I just saw the Ashanti bit on the Today show. My intention was to report on how ghastly I thought it was but I see I'm a little late. I really am at a loss for words as to how something this bad is allowed to happen even in this era of the promotion of meager talent. Ashanti is so busy posing and trying to dance that .....oh hell...I don't even know where to go with this. Simply TERRIBLE!!!

By stephanie (64.63.221.192) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:52 am:

I hate to tell you all this but Ashanti's albums sell and WHY I dont know..
Stephanie

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:52 am:

Ralph,
There is a girl named Lumidee who has a big hit right now who makes Ashanti sound like Aretha!!!

BIG SCREAM AHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:53 am:

Ralph:
I guess we are all at a loss for words out here...

I know I'm gonna hear the same from my record store staff later on today, so I better have that drink now and brace myself...

Kevin Goins - KevGo
(PS - Now everyone knows why I bravely created that "What Is Right/Wrong With The Record Industry Post"...)

By LostInSoul (172.142.5.205) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:57 am:

Make that money Ashanti and secure your future place in the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame. Your place is reserved right along side the other greats. You doing it baby, doing it to death!

Excerpt of current article

Ashanti, Beyonce albums remain on top

By Todd Martens

LOS ANGELES (Billboard) - New albums from young R&B divas Ashanti and Beyonce maintain their grip on the top of the Billboard 200 album chart Wednesday.

Ashanti's "Chapter II" (Murder Inc./Def Jam) sold 135,000 copies across the U.S. in the week ended July 13, according to Nielsen SoundScan, to remain at No. 1 for a second-straight week. Beyonce's "Dangerously in Love" (Columbia) is right behind with sales of 132,000 copies. The albums also lead Billboard's Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Singles & Tracks tally.

"Chapter II" remains No. 1 despite a 58% sales hit in its second week of release. The set's two-week sales total is 461,000 copies. Sales of "Dangerously in Love," meanwhile, were down 28%. That set's first single, "Crazy in Love" featuring Jay-Z, has already spent two weeks atop Billboard's Hot 100.

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:18 pm:

What does that have to do with the cost of tea in China??

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:18 pm:

Then again, Bobby & Stephanie just proved me wrong about the loss for words...

Stephanie:
I used to say this to my record store staff when I was a manager and an -ahem- "artist" - ahem- with no talent was selling like gangbusters, much to their dismay -

"SOMEONE OUT THERE LIKES IT AND IS BUYING IT..."

WHY she sells varies...fans may like her voice...they like the "songs" (which are nothing but someone else's songs with Ashanti's lyrics)..God knows..

Like I said, Kenny Loggins will be on the Today Show tomorrow morning...I know I'll be up early for that one.

Kevin "Footloose" Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:23 pm:

Thank you, LostInSoul, for the comic relief...

And please, just say no to drugs - 'cause you're hallucinating big time about the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame thing...

BTW - Billboard reported a 58% drop in sales for Ashanti's album - go Beyonce, go!

Kevin "High On Life & Reality" Goins - KevGo

By LostInSoul (172.142.5.205) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:29 pm:

She's a lock. The RRHOF is all about the sales baby and baby gurl sells. U Go Gurl!

By Eli (172.133.42.47) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:37 pm:

Hey Lost in, whatever..
What demographic do you fall in to??

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:41 pm:

Geez, LostInSoul:
If RRHOF is all about sales then how come they induct legendary session musicians, doo-wop artists and disc jockeys. Shows how ignorant you and your comments are.

Keep up the minstrel show, pal...You're really making me laugh.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:44 pm:

Hey Eli:
Who cares what demographic the LostFool falls into? Let him keep up the minstrel act...we need the comic relief.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By El (172.133.42.47) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:49 pm:

Where's Al Jolson and Bojangles when you need them ???

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.7.210) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:11 pm:

...Maybe Ashanti should B Re-Called from the
(so-called) Music Biz...(more like a Musical Circus)...Here we R, still talking about Soul Music (from way back), there R radio stations that only play Soul Music(from way back), rappers use our Soul Music(from way back) 4 back -up...so what does that tell U???
Soul Music was, is, and always will B the 'REAL'
so...there's STILL such a thing called 'SOUL MUSIC', ...do U believe it???
no more bashing Ashanti, but I had 2 say it!!!!

By Greg C. (166.84.225.84) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:24 pm:

Ashanti is all about marketing.

It's image, it doesn't have squat to do with talent! She's not about any kind of longevity and I honestly don't see her as a career artist unless there is some drastic change in her repertoire. The novelty will wear off and it'll be on to the next piece of cheesecake, that's just how flaky and inconsistent the American public's music taste is.

When folks stop buying and supporting this crap and demand REAL talent for their dollars the atmosphere will change.

By Lakeview (65.238.91.254) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:39 pm:

My dog howls more in tune than Ashanti....and sounds much better too. I'm releived to say she looks prettier, but, that may be a matter of opinion. I think the kids of today are totally clueless about what real talent and voices are since, most of the stuff is rap. No vocal talent needed there, really. It may take some sort of talent to rap (well), but, carrying a tune ain't one of them! So many of us are accustomed to real singers. This current crop is a pretty sad lot. It's all flash and hype. I don't think most would make it past pushing a broom at Motown (in the day). When I hear the Usher's and Ashanti's.....Yikes! Thank God I have my CD's of the 60's/70's singers.

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.7.210) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:44 pm:

...and I'm with U on that Lakeview...Thank Goodness 4 the old stuff that's taped/CD'd and we still have those and the old 45's & albums.

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (24.150.163.201) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:10 pm:

Mr.Eli,

While I agree with everything you said about Asshottie,please don't blame it all on D.J.'s!It is true that some have thrown their hat into the music industry with no knowledge besides a ear for a groove,there are others(like myself)who not only have a love and appreciation for good music(and vocals),but know about arrangements and music theory.You will find there are many D.J.'s who are frustrated musicians,that didn't have the playing ability and talent that some of you do.I enjoy playing with live bands not only because of the energy,but because it also furthers my education.I and many others have tried to keep the real artists in the spotlight and exercise what little influence we have in giving new talented artists the exposure they deserve.However there aren't enough people D.J.'s or otherwise in the industry that care and know about music and that goes far beyond the A&R level.Even if someone in the know were to get a A&R position in one of the major labels,they'd be fired in a minute,because what we want is not what the companies want.

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:17 pm:

As far as the acting and modeling possibilities, I saw her act as a guest star on an episode of the TV series Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Without saying too much about it, modeling would seem to be the way to go.

Regards,
Ken

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:29 pm:

Funkyone:
You raised a valid point. Through my years in the industry I've known many DJs who, given their druthers, wouldn't have touched the Ashanti-es of the world with a ten-foot pole. As for A&R folks, their job nowadays is to deliver what the company wants to sell to the public.

Greg C. hit the nail on the head - it's all about marketing. It ain't about how talented one is, it's how they are marketed to the public. People think, "Wow - Ashanti sang on Fat Joe's 'What's Luv' and writes her own lyrics - she must be good!" - because this is what the marketing folks want the public to think.

Like I said in another thread, it's a cycle that will soon have its course.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Leoscasino (66.72.198.139) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:42 pm:

I live in Cleveland. I am and have been a member
of the RRHOF since its inception. The hall is
about magic. You feel it when you walk through the door.
It's about so much, that obviously people like
"LostIn", just don't get it.

By musicchef (68.104.25.189) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 04:53 pm:

If the RRHOF was all about sales, people like Pat Boone and Connie Francis would be in there now. Since I have never heard Ashanti or Lumidee sing, I committed a future felony by downloading it from Kazaa. OMFG !!! This stuff is so "limp" that Viagra can't help it... I'm glad I threw out my tuner years ago...

"That's about all I hafta say about that" - F. Gump

Da Chef

By the count (69.14.113.157) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 05:36 pm:

BRING ON SPIKE JONES.
"COUNT"

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 05:40 pm:

What about when Ashanti played on this series on NBC as Dionne Warwick singing "Walk on By"? I can't recall the name. What a crock!

Maybe Dionne was flattered....then again maybe not! LOL!

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (24.150.163.201) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 07:07 pm:

It doesn't hurt your chances to get in the RRHOF if you have a big label still behind you as they provide a good chunk of the funding.That's why there is a whole list of pioneers that are still waiting to get in,but don't have a label or won't translate into a big boost in catalog sales.Not to mention the expense of bulding a statue for some of them! ; )

By RD (65.150.229.252) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 07:25 pm:

You're so right Funky, that's why so many artists in the WEA family have been inducted.

I live in Cleveland too and I don't see anything magical or artsy about the place. To many it's considered a joke. They built it on valuable lakefront property using tax abatements and to date it's been a major disappointment revenue wise. Many predict it'll be moved to another city; they change directors seemingly every year and the thing still doesn't turn a profit. Why it was built without a parking lot is another mystery. It's near the new Browns' stadium but you can't park there. A huge municipal lot is across the street but nobody parks there at night. And it's a good hump from the heart of downtown. It should have been built in the area of Jacobs Field and Gund Arena: more parking and more accessible to bus and rail lines.

By Des (217.42.15.148) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 07:38 pm:

Re. all the frustration on Ashanti,I'll give some/all of you additional smiles.....
Last year as Ashanti was "breaking big" here in UK (alongside/soon after the USA) , she was interviewed by Trevor Nelson (a hip man,I haveta say) and during this interview Trev alluded to stories that it was Ashanti who actually sang on that other great vocalists (then) recent hit -- J-Lo's remix with Ja Rule of "I'm Real"....I didn't know much about Ashanti,but the jokey inference was that J-Lo couldn't sing and Ashanti was an uncredited "vocal saviour" on that mega-hit !!!!!
Later last year,she was here for some Murder Inc Junket and sang to tapes at that "bash".....She revealed what you guys have been referring to these last few days.....no singing talent "live".
In her (and other musically talent-free individuals') defence,am I going to risk the wrath of many/all of you when I say that these people really are the visually attractive "fronts" to some good writing,production and packaging that can ,at least,be appreciated a little for what that is....there are some good tracks on the first Ashanti album,similarly Kelly Rowlands' and,indeed,J-lo's.......Sacrilege????? ---- I hope not.....
Des

By ronni (65.238.58.86) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 07:39 pm:

I, too, am from Cleveland. Yea, the parking stinks and you pay a fortune for what you can find. The building is impressive on the lake. Their displays have been "iffy" at best. Maybe because I'm a 60's Motown fan and music of that area. Most of the stuff I've seen there I can't relate to, though, I realize their job is to cover all areas of Rock and Roll. Several displays of The Supremes gowns were pretty neat. Perhaps "my" music is too limited for this place? The CD'S in the gift shop are pretty impressive. A lot of imports you can't find elsewhere, though a little pricey. Still, it's good to see this stuff available. I guess I need a 60's museum that specialize in girl groups! Ahhh. Heaven!

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:40 pm:

If you call Rock Witchu( Awww Baby) good writing
than I might as well open up a hardware store and sell screwdrivers!!

By Des (81.152.91.71) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 06:11 pm:

Hey Bobby/
That track's on the new Ashanti and I haven't heard that track or album.
I left this thread and hit her Official Site,played the Video of that song....yeah,you're right to be scathing - it's dull,repetitive and not a patch on the better/good tracks(the singles,mainly) I refer to on the first album.
Seems to suggest that all those who commented that her super nova was likely to burn out soon won't have to wait long.
This,however,wasn't my point,and,Bobby,however grudgingly - can you find nothing to appreciate in these "Artists" albums ---- notably some writing,production and(for want of a better phrase) the gloss that makes these non-musical vehicles musically attractive in some way.....I'd venture that Janet falls into that category,but has developed a position,thanks mainly to the qualities of Jam&Lewis,that somehow makes her seem musically gifted and,amusingly,increasingly an iconic leader to the Kelly-R's , Beyonce's,Ashanti's of this world....same vacuity - just with some quality.....And that's what I'm trying to say can happen and is something to appreciate and not just dismiss from a musical high(er) ground.
NB/ I'm no "Lost In Soul" with whom Kevin and you had some friction recently,but I am,and always have been,open to see and hear the best in what's available to me -- again,don't read that personally.I'm enjoying this Site too much to feel I ought not to try and get over what I feel to be a reasonable position and one that a lot of the naysayers on todays' scene should,at least,acknowledge and maybe reappraise from both a young persons' perspective AND their own mature stage in life !!!
Phew .... too many points on one Post,methinks
Des

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.10.198) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 08:53 pm:

Another Non~Talented Vocalist is Detroits' own Karen Newman, she sings a lot of commercials, especially Car commercials... She couldn't carry a tune N a bucket...

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 02:44 pm:

Handsome:
The TV show you were referring to is "American Dreams" - an NBC "coming of age" drama about a family growing up in Philadelphia with a daugther who dances on American Bandstand.

Ashanti was playing the role of Dionne Warwick on the program.

All I can say is since this show came on the air, my respect for Dick Clark has diminished (he's one of the executive producers).

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

Hey KevGo!

Thanks for the clarification.

Handsome

By Treena (207.254.31.183) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

All I can say is since this show came on the air, my respect for Dick Clark has diminished (he's one of the executive producers).

Kev, why do you find this show unsatisfactory. Does it stray from reality? I've only seen it once but I'm curious?

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

She's back.......

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 03:27 pm:

That's a fair question Treena. I'm not familiar with the show so the answer to the would interest me.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 03:39 pm:

Treena:
To answer your question, I disagree with the show's use of certain current artists for the "portrayal" of music legends, especially those who cannot hold a tune in a bucket. Also I disagree with the show's re-writing of history,

Ashanti as Dionne Warwick? That's just the tip of the iceberg. Vanessa Carlton as Dusty Springfield? Third-Eye Blind as the Kinks? Even India.Arie as Nina Simone was far-fetched (she sounded fine but the character of "Nina" was singing in a small club in front of a microphone - WRONG! Nina was always at the piano when she sang and by the TV show's "timeline" (1963-64)the real Nina Simone was playing larger venues). Finally, B2K playing the Temptations and singing "My Girl" in 1964? - the record wasn't released until early 1965!

I hope this answers your question.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

Well I guess you answered mine Kevin. Is Dick Clark responsibe for the accuracy of this program?

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:04 pm:

Ralph:
I don't know if he's responsible for the accuracy but one would think that someone from his camp would've hit the brakes on the "My Girl" performance - especially since by the fall of 1964 the real American Bandstand had moved to Los Angeles and I've seen a clip of the Temptations lip-synching "My Girl" from Dick Clark's "Where The Action Is", which was aired in 1965.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By uardanjie (67.192.46.107) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:36 pm:

Hi,

I have to I agree with you, ASHANTI thumbs down.
The album I brought for my daughter and listen to it, I like maybe three songs out of twenty.
the only credit I can give her right now is she
writes her own material. There's one cut called Sugar Shack or something like that,anyway the intro is so big and power it's like your going to here Bessie Smith or some 50's artist following the intro and here comes Ashanti with a very small voice.
Now on the other hand you have Beyounce who has a
good voice not excellent but a hard worker who
is not riding on the coat tail of a big well
known name,ducketts and good A&R people. On her album there 14 songs and the first seven songs are good. So you have 7 out of 14. That's excellent. Beyounce enjoys the camera and loves what she is doing an has a very talent spirit. The rise of a new millenum Tina Turner. Who will go far.

Today music is more so about a conversation of reality than just plain old music to groove too..... such as the 60's,70's,80's.

You know what I mean,
U

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 04:05 am:

...just happened to be reading through this thread and stumbled on some very disappointing information...B2K as the Tempts???...that hurts. Lip-synching or not, that just ain't right.

My take on the whole Ashanti thing is, do I think that she can sing? Not really, maybe with some more vocal coaching she may be able to hit a note or two, but nothing that will really move me, which is what r&b/soul music is all about to me, being able to make me FEEL what you're singing. So yes, she'll sell records, they have good beats, and catchy hooks, which unfortunately is all that it takes nowadays.
In Ashanti's defense (sort of), though I do not particularly love her songs, or consider her to be a powerhouse in the field of music, we all know that (unfortunately) it COULD be worse, i.e. as Bobby put it so well, the other singer Lumidee, who really DOES make Ashanti sound like Aretha (LOL)...per an earlier post, Lumidee also has what it takes to make it big nowadays---a pretty face, good beats, a catchy hook, and (for extra credit) a couple of rappers in her song/video.
Again, do I think Ashanti is a great singer? No. But despite this fact, I also don't believe I would have gone as far as to petition against her winning that award (for those that don't know, she was up for the Aretha Franklin Honorary Award last year, and there was such an outpour of people opposed to it, they actually started a petition against Ashanti receiving the award).

No I don't love her music but I think that was just plain cruel for people to do that, or in the words of today, they needed to stop hatin' on Ashanti. Don't mean to preach again, but she is a young black woman (something I can definitely relate to) who is trying to make some money, doing what she likes to do, it ain't illegal, she ain't hurtin' nobody (except for maybe my ears), and I just think it's a shame that people (and I'll bet you that 99% of those petitioners were black), her own people, would try to bring her down like that. If her music really ain't about nothin', it will all come to light, and the public will eventually tire of it and stop buying it. It is not up to us to play God and try to deliberately stop her course of success. It is so rare that young black people have a positive role model, why would we give all the awards to people like 50 cent (who advocates violence, raps about his gunshot wounds like they are his damn trophy of honour, like getting shot is something to be done), and then try to take them away from someone who mostly sings about love (however inadequately she does it)??
So no I am by no means trying to come off as an Ashanti advocate, but believe me, it could just be a lot worse :o)

By Mark Speck (199.183.93.144) on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 09:19 am:

Another Clevelander here weighing in: I think it's a sad state of affairs when the best thing about the HOF is the FYE store there (they carry lots of import CDs that you can't get anywhere else in the immediate Cleveland area).

I also don't think Ashanti will make it into the HOF. Well, maybe if she pays admission like us mere mortals...

Best,

Mark