By deb (198.81.26.170) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:20 am:

good morning detroit-just returned from motown it was a great experience. can anyone out their tell me about an album by the notions on gemigo 5501. I
can't seem to find these lp anywhere, does anyone
know what label this is? thanks deborah

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 09:01 am:

Gemigo was a susidiary of Curtom, the Curtis Mayfield owned label.

By Soulaholic (208.57.215.10) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 09:40 am:

Hello Deb:

You can find out a little about The Notations on AMG's site:
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=CASS70305151033&sql=Bv3420r8ac48p

Did a couple of Philly style dancers in the 70's.

Think before you stop is my personal fav by them.

It is a sort of hard lp to track down.
Soulaholic

By Don (68.75.167.223) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 08:45 pm:

The first time I heard The Notations hit record of "I'm Still Here" was first sanged and rehearsd by a Chicago vocal group named The Vows. It was credited as The Notations and Produced by Chicago Soul and R&B singer Syl Johnson of "Jealous Kind of Fellow" fame. Wow, I don't know what went on in that decision there, because I heard the tune before it was released in 1970.

By RD (65.150.229.166) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 09:02 pm:

Don, "Jealous Kind of Fellow" was Garland Green.

Clifford Curry was the Notations' lead singer and according to Peter Wright who managed and recorded them along with Syl Johnson, Patti Drew and others, it's Curry leading "I'm Still Here" backed by the Notations.

I never knew who produced the record as I was unaware of it until I heard a remake by L.A.'s Sly, Slick & Wicked a few years ago but I wouldn't be surprised if either Johnson redid the song on the Notations or the scenario you posted is the real truth. It wouldn't be the first time another group was credited on a track done by a completely different group. This happened earlier in Chicago with the Confessions on "Don't It Make You Feel Kinda Bad," which was credited to the Radiants.

By Don (68.75.167.223) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 09:44 pm:

To RD. You did correct me for my mistakes, it was G.Green, my bag. RD what I meant was the song "I'm Still Here" was actually sanged and rehearsed by The Vows. Now excuse me if you read my message and what I was trying to say. What I was saying, you took the comment like The Vows did the vocal tracks and the Notations took credit for it. Well, that may have been a mishap on my part to try to explain it dig. But it was The Vows' song actually it was written by two members of The Vows. Now this is not to sound mean towards you RD, but there is no way the way you've expressed gentlemanly, but I would not try to compare The Notes to The Vows. I'm waiting on you're reply RD....Are ya out there?

By RD (65.150.229.166) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

Don, I'm no expert on either group, barely know about the Notations and know nothing of the Chicago Vows; There was another group called the Vows from Los Angeles. I couldn't tell you what group sounded better, the definitive sound for either, or their strong or weak points. Clifford Curry is credited with writing "I'm Still Here."

By Don (68.75.180.36) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 12:03 am:

RD. Both Notations and Vows came from the same neighborhoods on the Westside of Chicago. I know during the days where a group that had a uniqne name thought to themselfs they have a name that no other group has, in this case being The Vows, or as you've expressed calling them the Chicago Vows. In actual fact, The Vows' had popularity base in LA, Florida, Texas, and other regions like the Southwest, Northwest, Midwest, Eastcoast, and parts of the Southeast. And they were well-known in Chi-Town too RD. So this same group of Vows you mentioned, and if you are a record collector, may be the same group of Vows that you think of as a Westcoast Group. Also this same group changed their names to The Majors and kinda went thru alot name changes like; Fuzzy & The Majors and/or The Majors 4 and/or Four, after just settling on the name The Majors. Also there is a group named The Majors that is credited for some recordings by The Vows/The Majors, you know why, is by the grace of this most informative website that we both discovered RD. This is not to take away from The Notations bro. The Vows/Majors did a helluva lot of recordings for labels as Impalla (I think I spelled it right), People (I heard it was actually owned by William "Mickey" Stevenson after he left Motown, though I'm still not sure if James Brown was a silent partner, maybe J.B. brought him out later?). On that same label I remember a 45 on People "Leak In The Facet" written by Bobby Womack, and also a young and inspiring musician named Berry White played piano, b/w L-O-V-E!, and another 45 I don't have handy with me. And I know they did some unreleased tracks for WMS's other label Venture, and some other chicago labels. If you can RD check out a book written by Robert Prutter call "Chicago Soul", check in the back of the index and look under the alphabet V, and if that don't help, check out in this forum on Willie Hutch on this web for group members names. The Vows from Chi-Town recorded; "While We Were Dancing, When We Get Married, May I Kiss The Bride, If I Should Lose You, Amazons&Coyotes, Dreamlovers, Teenage Vows of Love, Dreamers, The Life In A Northern Town, Lesson of Love, Indian Summer, Sometimes"/The Majors from Chi-Town recorded; "Lost In A City, A Wonderful Dream, She's a Troublemaker b/w A Little Bit Now". You see I was a fan of their's when I was coming up. Also RD if you say you're no expert on the Notations then I'll have to say and I've seen Bobby sanged lead, but.

By RD (65.150.228.48) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 08:04 am:

Don, the Vows I mentioned were comprised by some of the guys who later became the Younghearts, they had a single release on Motown's VIP label and were based in Los Angeles. I called the Vows from Chicago the Chicago Vows to distinguish them from the L.A. group.

None of the Vows (from Chicago) recordings ever got played in Cleveland where I live and only a few of the Notations' recordings aired. So as previously posted my knowledge on both groups is limited. I know of the Notations from Peter Wright. I've never even heard the Notations original version of "I'm Still Here." As I said in my first response I heard the song by L.A.'s Sly, Slick & Wicked (I use L.A. to distinguished them from the SSW who were Cleveland based).

If you check the B.M.I. site you'll see that "I'm Still Here" is credited to Clifford Curry.

I was merely responding to your reply to my post and thought you were implying that the Vows recorded the song and the Notations name was placed on the recording. All I was saying was IF that did happen it wouldn't have been the first time and I gave the Confessions/Radiants scenario as an example. It also happened with a female Chicago group who recorded "I Sold My Heart to the Junkman" only to see the Bluebells get the fame for it.

By RD (65.150.228.48) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 08:25 am:

Don, I do have a recording by a Vows group on a compilation album entitled "When A Boy Loves A Girl" written by R. Parker. Is this the Chicago group? The lead sounds like Ray Parker Jr. Most artist discographies have the different Vows' groups recordings all mixed up.

By Don (68.75.187.215) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:31 pm:

RD. Sorry I had to get off the net cause mom had to get on, so I couldn't fully respond to your reply. To answer some of the mix up's. Actually The Vows from Chicago we're the ones who went to Detroit for the audition, cause I was told by a couple of the fellas, now I don't know if it was secretly taped or wha?! So the guys we're telling when they got to The Big D they we're met by WMS. Gordy had brought out Ric Tic/Golden World etc. And from what I was told if they would have passed the audition they would be signed to Motown's V.I.P. label. WMS came back with a disapointed look on his face and said that Gordy wasn't interested in the group. And when I think on it they've would have been on the same roster w/ The Parliaments, The Moniters, Bobby Taylor & The Vancouvers, etc. And to answer some of the other conflicting and contrary stories, there was some groups calling themselfs The Majors, The Younghearts (The Vows?), and that's conflicting enough that's all too confusing to who had their names first and some recordings made also, that you did pointed out too RD. Peter Wright, Green and Johnson may have managed The Notations, but ask C. Curry and B. Thomas of The Notations who we're their very first manager was it was Mrs. Ruth Moore nicknamed "Moe" and co- managed by a guy named "Al" that had connections to L.A., Hmm? Cause her house was always open, tell em do they remember the kitchen? In those days the Vows out of Chicago had a couple of band members I do remember George Cash little brother of The Late R&B singer Alvin Cash on drums, and Glenn Murdock on guitar. Glen would later to become a member along with his wife Jane Kennedy to form the 70'S rock/funk/r&b band Mothers Finest, Jane was also around then too singing. Glen before he was in The Vows' back-up band, he was in a band called The Wot-Nots that birthed The Vondells that birthed The Lost Generation, RD do you remember their hit song "The Sly, The Slick, The Wicked. Also RD look in the recent forum on my comments on The Lost Generation, Alvin Cash, and Willie Hutch. As for The Notations and this not to knock em and I'm not a hater, cause I have to give them E for effort. C. Curry did not write "I'm Still Here", Larry and Lawrence of The Vows wrote it. Larry's lyrical skill and Lawrence's jazzy mellow guitar chords, is how the song is based around, and the guitar may be played by him? I know his particular riffs that nobody wasn't doin' then. Bobby and the fellas would come around and cop certain things other groups would rehearse cause the Vows was Moe's main group. And I was leading up to this all The Chicago Vows' mayham steamed from Mrs. Moore and Al's bs/non-sense behavior and backstabbing business dealings. Don't get me wrong they weren't your run of the mill managers, they we're tops though, cause these Chicago Vows/Majors did play top-rate venues locally and regionally too also RD. And when these two phools couldn't have their way, well? Because it's all water under the bridge about who's who, who sanged this who sanged that, who wrote this and who didn't. Cause I'll be honest cause when I hear certain songs on all my Goldmine CD'S I'd be hearing the Vows lyrics (some) and their leadsheet arrangements that came outta D Town. She and Al sold off the lyric and musical arrangement and mastertapes. See, that is why alot of Chicago artists didn't get the reconition because due to in part of A&R, producers, promotions, managers & deejays playing head games. That's why when music lovers, music collector's here and abroad when they think of The Chicago Music Scene they only think of all the blues and some jazz artists, The Dells, The Chi Lites, Tyrone Davis, Gene Chandler, Jerry Butler, Curtis Mayfield, and The Impressions, sorry it just don't do it for me cause it isn't all of chicago's music legacy-Sorry RD & Soulful Detroit & Northern Soul fans.

By RD (65.150.242.88) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

Don, I don't doubt that the Vows from Chicago went to Motown to audition. Groups from all over went to Motown to audition; the Radiants auditioned for Motown, was turned down, and signed with Chess. The Vows who had a record release on VIP, however, were the Los Angeles based Vows, who with some changes, became the Young Hearts.

I never said the two guys in the Vows didn't write "I'm Still Here," I said the song is credited to Clifford Curry--a big difference. Because a song is credited to someone doesn't mean he/she actually wrote it.

I know of Ruth Moore. She owns the publishing to a lot of obscure songs recorded in Chicago. I tried to contact her on several occasions but never connected. When the Notations recorded for Peter Wright he handled their affairs, that's all I was speaking on. Wright was disappointed when Syl Johnson left the fold for Hi Records. A big mistake for Syl as he never impacted the charts the way he had under Wright's tutorledge again.

I know of many obscure Chi-town artists just wasn't that familiar with the Vows. Bassist Bernard Reed had a group that recorded for Peter Wright, the name escapes me. Do you remember Little Ben & the Cheers who did shows at Chicago schools with the Jackson brothers from Gary, IN? Howabout the Vontastics, the Accents, the Naturals, the original Gems, Darrow Fletcher, etc. What about the Artistics, a more dynamic group live (anyway) than the Chi-lites who became more popular?

By Mark Speck (199.183.107.91) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:38 am:

Yesterday, I picked up a Notations CD on the UK label Sequel.

I found it at Coconuts. Check out those guys or FYE. They've been getting in a lot of outstanding import CDs, most places are selling them for $6.98 or $7.98 with a 'buy one get one free' deal.

Best,

Mark

By Don (68.75.173.238) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 03:20 am:

RD. It took me some time to get back. I read your comments and i think you did your good job of digging up some resreach, it's okay. Well, in hinsight after talking with some of the Vows just the other nite, they never wanted to go to Motown in the first place, because they wanted to show Motown just they can do! And yes of course Gordy didn't want nobody to out-do the Tempts, period. And from what little info I got that some other insider in Motown said when Gordy The Chicago Vows as you call them, heard what they we're doing and other stuff performed-that's when Gordy decided to put out the Mellow Mood album by the Tempts right after that, and said the Tempts got the J.O.B. done but worked awfully hard though. As for the V.I.P. recording it don't matter 'cuz it's all water under the bridge RD," SO WHAT!". So you say you knew "Moe"(Ruth Moore)huh. Don't know if you know her or not, who's to say? But what ever I expressed before must have touched a nerve RD. Then if you knew her, do you know her home over on 18th Street by Robert Mason Grammer School across the tracks by K Town on the Westside? I remember one of her so-call obscure songs so-call owns basically she got as co-authorship and didn't even write. Anyways, it was by an all female group, I think they we're an quintet and/or an quartet named SILK (also I'm not speaking of the Keith Sweat male vocal group neither). They cut a side call "Come To Me" that came out on a indie here call Nation Records, I think? It was co-authored where it says L. Bibbs and R. Moore cause actually it was written by L. Montgomery, because I was there when he wrote it, lyrics-melody and chordcharts. Are you aware of this obscure song by this obscure vocalgroup on this obscure recordlabel RD, just asking is all. Ruth Moore passed away. It is said back in the early/mid 70'S is why you weren't able to talk with her RD. Her co-manager Al_______ I heard rummored passed in the early 80'S. All I know is after Moe had passed alot of the other groups she managed and musicians came by gathered up all reel to reels, music & lyricsheets and group photos. So honestly, I don't know if her kids or grandkids have ownership, doubtfully not, because Moe's kids didn't know about such things because she did all the biz. And a lot of other things that really didn't matter anymore got threw away in the garbage like records, I know that for a fact. Her kids still owns the home over on 18Th PL. I admire your writing and sreach skills RD, don't always go for a quick knock out so fast. Yeah, I know about all the groups you've named, sure, because they've all grew up all in the same area included the 1950'S Doo Wop group The Clovers too, not much I can elaborate about the Clovers though. Bassist Bernard Reed. From what I know him and Lefty Bates did a lot of Vee Jay sessions and a lot of Chicago Producer Carl Davis sessions for Cobra, Okeh, Dekar, Epic, ABC and I think Chess at least that's what I've read? Yes, a lot of talent shows and prize contest we're mostly given and held at Marshall and Crane from what I can remember? Yea, I was into the Independents "Leaving Me" and 21st Century's "Do You Remember The Rain", my cousins use to hang around 'em. Don't know about the J5 although I liked they're first sides before they came to Motown. But whatcha' did not know that Ruth "Moe" Moore had a knack and canny ability to pull talent and some a person like wouldn't ever believe. She in fact managed the Vows/Majors (Chi Town's own), the Notations, and the Chi-Lites at one time cause the Vows use to give them trainfare home to get back out South(side), and a whole list of other's who's names escapes me. Do you RD remember the Du-Kays that made "Duke Of Earl" b/w: "Nite Owl", I know "Duke" was giving to Gene Chandler. Anyway Moe managed the female that was with the Du Kays, I'm speaking of the original female group member and a group of fellas and she wanted them to sound and to be in the Platters mode of a fade. Moe always looked for in any group was originality. Only this was a no-no because everydody tried to tell her so and she even had to wise-up. Or was it a ploy to use to make a demo and pitch a song someplace else, like with so many others in mind? Whether good, bad, pro, con, you choose, you lose. The only thing I can say is her door was always open to us and kids with talent and it kept us from gettin into trouble and for other's who got to travel outside of Chicago and other parts of the United States. Thank You Ruth Moore.

By RD (65.150.242.17) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 01:11 pm:

Don, I didn't know Ruth Moore personally, I knew of her and some of the things she did in Chicago regarding soul music. I tried to contact her a few times but never connected. Is she still alive? There's another unsung lady of music in Chicago that was known as Ms. Vi. She has a long ethnic last name that I can't recall.

By MEL&THEN SOME (81.174.192.74) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 01:22 pm:

Apologies if these have been mentioned above
but 2 of my favourite Notations 45s that I think are well worth a mention are
'trying my best to find her/gonna get ready'
on the Tad record Label(no.205)
and also
'at the crossroads/a new day'
on the excellent Twinight record Label(no.148)
regards
mel.

By don (68.78.25.37) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 04:56 pm:

RD. Ruth Moore passed away in the 70'S as I mentioned. This other woman manager of whom you speak of, I think I know where you're coming from. You say her name is Vi______,__________. I think. I think I know. Is it Vivian? I'll have to do some thinking on that one. I left out too that La Salle of the Notations passed away a year or two ago. I know before La Salle's passing, I seen the group on a local cable access TV show at a summer concert outting. They had a brand new CD at the time locally. I remember Lil' Bobby put out an CD back in the mid 80'S locally. It got some real good play on alot of those SoftTouch and QuietStrom station that played R&B Comtemporary, I miss those kinds of stations with real traditional either groups, vocalist and jazz. RD, it's a shame one has to keep up with the Veterns of R&B at the local record stores by keeping up-to-date. The same way they do with the new up and commer's in the neo soul/retro bag at times too. RD, you might like to check out some comments I here in Soulful Detroit's Forum. Check the Florence Ballard Sessions, and the Marvin Gaye Soundalikes reguarding J.J. Barnes -- Archives 01 - 03. I wrote something on Barry White, Roy Handy, and Sam Cooke recently also.

By RD (65.150.229.179) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 06:14 pm:

Don, I didn't know Ruth Moore had passed. Her contact info is still in B.M.I. Find a song she published, click her publishing company and it takes you to a page that gives an address and phone number. I called the number given but never got anybody, no answering machine, nothing.

You're thinking of Vivian Carter. The Ms. Vi I'm referring to is caucasian. Her husband sent me a lot of information about a label she ran. Off the top of my head I think she recorded Little Ben & the Cheers but don't hold me to that. That group was comprised of the children of members of the Norfleets, a gospel group of brothers and their first cousins (and vice versa). LB&TC started around the same time as the Jacksons from Gary, IN and often did high school shows with them.

As for your comments about radio, I gave up on it as a listening tool for music years ago.

J.J. Barnes' "Baby Please Come Back Home" was like the most popular tune at the skating rinks when it was out. High on our soul surveys too. Yet, I can't recall J. J. coming to town to do either a club or theater date. He cut many singles but to my knowledge that's the only one that got played in Cleveland. Steve Mancha had two nice soul hits that received air time here, but again, no show. Some singers careers were short because they really didn't do much to promote themselves.

By Don (68.75.56.254) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:03 pm:

Hi RD. I need help getting thru. Can you e-mail at Sistersewsbc@giobal.net. That's the only thing I honest and truthfully did not know her publishing company name logo, and some or all songs published. Although I know I can help you out in return in a very major way too. Okay?