By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.38) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 04:21 pm:

Apologies
I know this isnt Detroit related but I know there are a few posters on here that dig the work of Johnny Ace.
As I do.

Anyway can any confirm that this is a complete Discography of the fine work done by

John Marshall Alexander
(aka)Johnny Ace
RIP 1929-1954)

Duke Records.
102-My Song/follow the rule.
107-cross my heart/Angel
112-The Clock/Aces Wild
118-Saving my love for you/yes,baby
128-please forgive me/you've been gone so long
132-never let me go/burley cutie
136-pledging my love/no money
144-anymore/how can you be so mean
148-so lonely/I'm crazy baby
154-still love you so/don't you know

and a Duke album that I have heard of called
Memorial Album for Johnny Ace
on DLP 71.

Apparantley in the early 60's
the album and the single
"pledging my love"
were releasesd with a female chorus overdubbed.
Anyone know about this as it was said that it was an attempt to update Johnny's material.

As I have nothing on any cd's etc regards the above material (I have a few on tape)
can anyone verify or deny any of the above please.

Many thanks
John Marshall Alexander

A TRUE ACE(ANDTHENSOME)

with thanks as always
mel

By RJ Spangler (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

I read the Johnny Ace book, very interesting. I learned much about Big Mama Thorton in that book too! -RJ

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 05:57 pm:

John Lennon's Happy Christmas (War Is Over) owes a lot of its melody to Pledging My Love. But then again, John was a fan of Mr Ace. Ted Carroll's Ace label reissued the Memorial album in the eighties, and a fine collection it is too, with some killer Jump Blues tunes alongside his well-loved hit ballad. Burley Cutie and Ace's Wild are fabulous instrumentals. Johnny Ace - definitely, in my book. :o)

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.81) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 11:58 pm:

Thanks guys
mel.

By dvdmike (65.208.234.61) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 07:14 am:

I will post Johnny Ace track notes later in the evening. Recording dates and locations and release dates.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.54) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 08:10 am:

Thanks Mike
mel.

By Fred (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 09:09 am:

Mel,

You are only missing one side, "Midnight Hours Journey" (Flair 133) from 1953, which preceded the Duke releases and was recorded by the Bihari brothers before John Alexander Jr. became Johnny Ace. The flip side is "Trouble And Me" by Earl Forrest.

There were several posthumous collections put out by Duke in 1955 shortly after Ace's death with varying tracks, including two EPs ("Memorial Album: Johnny Ace" and "A Tribute to Johnny Ace")with four different tracks on each and an LP "Memorial Album for Johnny Ace" with eight tracks, which was subsequently expanded to ten tracks for re-release in 1957.

I only happen to know this stuff because I am reading "The Late Great Johnny Ace" by James M. Salem (University of Illinois Press, 1999) which has a complete discography and the book happens to be at my elbow. It (the book, not my elbow) is now available in paperback and I highly recommend it as a wonderful view into the world of early 50s R&B.

By Fred (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 09:46 am:

Follow up (based on getting to the particular pages in the Salem book)...

In 1958, Don Robey remastered both "Pledging My Love" and "Anymore" with strings and backing vocals by the Jordanaires. The release flopped. Robey released the single under the same catalog number (Duke 136) as the original 1954 "Pledging My Love," which had been backed with "No Money."

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.117) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 10:42 am:

Fred
thanks very much for letting me know that vital piece of info
certainly to me anyway.
regards
mel
ps
please let me know if your elbow ever becomes available.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:13 am:

HEY MEL,ARE YOU GONNA HANG IT ON THE WALL OR PUT IT IN YOUR TROPHY CASE?HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!!!

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.47) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:20 am:

Nice one RnB
You'll be the first to know bro'
mel

By Bill (209.215.117.4) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 02:32 pm:

"The Late Great Johnny Ace" by James M. Salem is excellent. But a lot of the book's perspective is from Don Robey's right-hand woman. Inevitably, she offers her business angle, casting Robey in a positive light. Artists from those years who survived, however, gave quite a different perspective on the way Robey and his business peers treated them. For instance, the views of the recently departed Earl King about Johnny Vincent and Ace Records are scathing, something to the effect, "Johnny was making money hand over fist, but didn't pay nobody nothin'."

By Fred (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 04:54 pm:

No question that the Ace book is heavily reliant on Evelyn Johnson for insight into Robey's business practices, and she gets cast in a pretty flattering light (there are a number of artists who were represented by the Buffalo agency who might not agree with her contention that everything was on the square). She doesn't deny being the brains of Robey's operations, quoted at one point as saying "There are two things Don had, money and guts."

Robey's gangster reputation was apparently well earned, based on nearly everyone else's recollections of the man, and I don't believe Johnson when she said she never saw him draw it on anyone.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (81.174.194.138) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 05:06 pm:

Fred/Bill
really interesting stuff
I must look out for the book.
When you thing about it though
you would of needed some sort of back up especially back in those days and especially being in Texas.

Like a lot of places around the 60's but being a southern state
well we all know the things that were happening round the time
so to put out a Label or Labels that he did would of led to some degree of friction.

DIDNT don Robey have Sureshot records as well
and was it Peacock to or am I mixed up here guys?
regards
mel.

By Fred (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 05:34 pm:

Robey owned Sure Shot, which was active in the mid 60s. Peacock was Robey's original label which he merged with David Mattis' Duke label which had been located in Memphis and used the WDIA studio as a recording studio. Ace, Bobby Bland and Junior Parker came along in the deal with the Duke label. Robey recorded Big Mama Thorton on Peacock but primarily intended it as his gospel label.

By Scratcher (65.238.127.167) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 06:04 pm:

Robey started another gospel label, Songbird Records around 1963.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.9) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 06:11 pm:

Thanks Fred
so much superb material that has come out on these labels and especially on the peacock and Duke labels alone.
I have a very early or earlish Bobby Bland on a Duke 45 without digging it out now I think its a early or mid 50's cut also his or a lot of his material was and still is played today at various soul venues.
My fave amongst so many is "CALL ON ME".
and 45s such as
'shoes'
yum yum tree'
getting used to the blues'
'I aint myself anymore'
'these hands small but mighty'
but were going off the Johnny Ace thing here.

Just as a foot note I have a complete or near as damn it complete listing of all the peacock material(45s)and the artists on there like so many other artists on other labels are without a doubt some of the finest around.

As above Fred
with great voices like Jnr Parker and the unmistakeable Big Mama Thornton who growls some of those lyrics at ya.

I was going to post a little piece more regards Johnny Ace but its all there in your books.

What a way to go though,
regards the russian roulette thing,
was it true that it happened on Christmas day 1954 and supposedly I have read that Johnny was at the happiest point in his life after recieving a 3 stone diamond ring from his girlfriend and that he had also signed a contract no more than an hour before the fatality occured.

Yet once more an artist with talent so abundent and ready for the real big shot at the music world of things was taken from us,
but personally to me what a god damn stupid thing to do with a weapon.
I actually witnessed a couple of friends in my army days start a round of this crazy so called game of Russian Roilette and both actually had a turn each before myself and a couple others steamed into the idiots.

Anyway thats no relevent here
where would Johnny be today is yet another of lifes mysterys.
thanks Fred
mel

By Scratcher (65.238.127.167) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 06:15 pm:

All of Carl Carlton's Robey recordings came out on Backbeat, which was Don's soul/R&B label.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.9) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 06:18 pm:

Thanks Scratcher
mel

By Eli (151.197.183.125) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 06:31 pm:

A coupla things.
1.Duke records was a label original owned by Joe Maphis of Nashville and "sold " to Robey under "mysterious" circumstances.

2.The character "Big Red" in The Five Heartbeats was loosley based around Robey.

3. I have an old friend who sang with the Keynotes and other Gospel acts and Robey's gangster reputation is WELL founded!!

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 07:26 pm:

After reading what Eli said, it occurred to me Ace's suicide may be another one to open up to reinvestigate...(?).

By MEL&THEN SOME (81.174.192.103) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 07:54 pm:

Thanks Bobby
always appreciate it when guys like yourself put your comments on things
your the man!!!!!
Soulsister
I always had my doubts regards the Johnny Ace incident
but then again I dont know much.
mel

By Fred (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 09:03 pm:

Soulsister and Mel,

Get the book. The circumstances surrounding Ace's death are well documented. Really not much of a mystery to it. There were three witnesses in the room, including Thornton. Salem even tracked down the investigating police officer.

By dvdmike (68.72.94.60) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

Here is a complete singles Johnny Ace track info

MY SONG
Written by D.J. Mattis and Johnny Ace
Produced by D.J. Mattis
Recorded at Radio Station WDIA, Memphis, spring 1952
Issued as Duke single 102 in June 1952
R&B #1

FOLLOW THE RULE
Written by D.J. Mattis and Johnny Ace
Produced by D.J. Mattis
Recorded at Radio Station WDIA, Memphis, spring 1952
Issued as Duke single 102-B in June 1952

CROSS MY HEART
Written and produced by D.J. Mattis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston, August or September 1952
Issued as Duke single 107 in December 1952
R&B #3

ANGEL
Written by D.J. Mattis and Johnny Ace
Produced by D.J. Mattis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston, August or September 1952
Issued as Duke single 107-B in December 1952

THE CLOCK
Written by D.J. Mattis
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at ACA Studio, Houston on January 13, 1953
Issued as Duke single 112 in May 1953
R&B #1

ACES WILD
Written by Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on January 13, 1953
Issued as Duke single 112-B in May 1953

MIDNIGHT HOURS JOURNEY
Written by Joe Josea
Produced by Joe Bihari and Jules Bihari
Recorded at Memphis YMCA, Memphis, 1951
Issued as Flair single 1015-B in September 1953

SAVING MY LOVE FOR YOU
Written by Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at Radio Recorders, Hollywood on August 28, 1953
Issued as Duke single 118 in December 1953
R&B #2

YES BABY (duet with Big Mama Thornton)
Written by Don Robey
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at Radio Recorders, Hollywood on August 28, 1953
Issued as Duke single 118-B in December 1953

PLEASE FORGIVE ME
Written by Joseph August
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at Radio Recorders, Hollywood on August 28, 1953
Issued as Duke single 128 in April 1954
R&B #6

YOU'VE BEEN GONE SO LONG
Written by Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on January 17, 1954
Issued as Duke single 128-B in April 1954

NEVER LET ME GO
Written by Joe Scott
Produced by Johnny Board
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on July 22, 1954
Issued as Duke single 132 in October 1954
R&B #8

BURLEY CUTIE
Written by Johnny Ace
Produced by D.J. Mattis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston, August or September 1952
Issued as Duke single 132-B in October 1954

PLEDGING MY LOVE
Written by Ferdinand "Fats" Washington and Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on January 17, 1954
Issued as Duke single 136 on December 22, 1954
R&B #1, Pop #17

NO MONEY
Written by Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on January 17, 1954
Issued as Duke single 136-B on December 17, 1954

ANYMORE
Written by Ferdinand "Fats" Washington
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on January 17, 1954
Issued as Duke single 144 in June 1955
R&B #7

HOW CAN YOU BE SO MEAN
Written by Ferdinand "Fats' Washington and Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Board
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on July 22, 1954
Issued as Duke single 144-B in June 1955

I'M CRAZY, BABY
Written by C.C. Pinkston
Produced by Johnny Board
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on July 22, 1954
Issued as Duke single 148 in January 1956
Did not chart

SO LONELY
Written by Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on January 17, 1954
Issued as Duke single 148-B in January 1956

STILL LOVE YOU SO
Written by Sherman Johnson
Produced by Johnny Otis
Recorded at Radio Recorders, Hollywood on August 28, 1953
Issued as Duke single 154 in June 1956
Did not chart

DON'T YOU KNOW
Written by Johnny Ace
Produced by Johnny Board
Recorded at ACA Studios, Houston on July 22, 1954
Issued as Duke single 154-B in June 1956

By Eli (151.197.183.125) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 09:30 pm:

Don Robey was the Suge Knight of his day!!

By Billshere (67.209.216.184) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 04:12 pm:

Pledging MY Love was his best and it brings me to tears everytime I hear it. It also brings me to tears that hes gone. More songs like that brought about the population explosion of the late 50 early 60. I have played it a lot and miss him

Peace

Bill (From Detroit now in Florida)

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 12:41 pm:

I've always been a huge Johnny Ace fan. Still have a Memorial Album cassette that I've played the heck out of. I especially like "My Song," "Cross My Heart," and "The Clock."

By billshere (67.212.238.214) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

very good tunes. We need another Ace now to show these kids what music really is.

Peace

Bill

By Eli (141.151.59.40) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:06 pm:

Has anyone ever heard of a male artist from South Jersey (Philly) from the very early sixties named Sheron Ivy??
He recorded for Jerry Ross' Heritage label and was a carbon copy of Johnny Ace.
We did a few gigs together back then but then we lost contact.
The one song I remember was called I Need You and it was a "Johnny Ace" styled tear jerker.

By MEL&THEN SOME (81.174.194.89) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 04:26 pm:

Bobby
theres a cd out from Ace records called
The Co-Eds Story
featuring various artists and also has
Sheron Ivy
with the track that you refer to above
'I Need you'
and also a track called
'Believe me'.

mel.

By Eli (141.151.59.40) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 06:17 pm:

Thanks Mel!!!

By mhc (172.172.145.47) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 09:52 pm:

Bobby, Joe Maphis was a guitar player from California who wore a cowboy hat, who's playing I really like. He did a lot of sessions in the '50s and can be heard on "Stood Up" by Ricky Nelson, "Big Man" by The Four Preps, and a bunch of records by Wanda Jackson, among others.. You were thinking of Dave Mattis from Memphis, as per Fred's post a few spaces above yours..

By Eli (141.151.59.40) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 11:44 pm:

Marshall.
My bad!!! You are absolutely correct. I probably had a severe "senior moment" whilst I was posting that one.

By dvdmike (68.23.177.218) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 05:54 pm:

I recently heard some material by The Four Preps. Ed Cobb was in that group, as was future TV producer Glen Larson. Lincoln Mayorga was their arranger. Mayorga also arranged Jewel Akens' "The Birds And The Bees" and Johnny Mathis' "The Sweetheart Tree." He played the celeste on Sam Cooke's version of "The Riddle Song."