By medusa9e2003 (66.73.7.182) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:09 am:

It seems that the music we call 'Soul is more appreciated N other countries and they're more knowlegable(?)sp. on the hsitory of 'Soul' Music
Y is that?????????????
Plus I can remember when the Beatles & other British Groups re-recorded a lot of Motown stuff..I think it's great, but my inquiry mind wants 2 know...is it because most of U R a musicians from that era or...???ahhh that's it isn't it????
I've learned so much here, and I live right here N Detroit, when I was younger, I heard a lot of
rumors. If I were 2 ask some Detroiters the questions we get here, they wouldn't have a clue...I appreciate the respect U have 4 Motown, Philly and other 'Soul Music', and thanx 4 keeping it 'Live, I 4 one, am very greatful...(oh and again, no offense 2 anyone).

By RD (63.188.33.148) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:41 am:

I'm from Cleveland and I think I know a lot about the history of soul music. Yet most people raised when I was and before and after don't. It's the same way with people from other countries. Most people in London don't have a clue about northern soul or the history of soul music, just like most people in New York or Tokyo don't.

Soul music lovers in foreign countries have networked better, they published magazines about the music, and companies have issued compilations filled with the music that USA companies have ignored. Ignored because hardcore old soul music fans are insignificant to American recording companies because the percentile is so low.

I also think perception played a big part particularly in the beginning. I think foreigners thought these artists were making significant money to live on; that to have a song ranked number 35 on Billboard's R&B chart meant money in the bank. They believed these artists toured frequently and made nice money doing so. While Americans who knew the artists and the songwriters knew different. Thus, we never put them on any pedestal. We knew of many recording artists with hit records who worked at car washes, factories, drove cabs, etc. Most thought they were wasting their time pursuing a music career and couldn't understand why they didn't apply for a job at Fords or continue their education.

The late James Nyx, a Motown songwriter, worked as a janitor at Motown. Nyx is one of the writers of "The Bells" and many others. His own son didn't know or think much about his songwriting because he said growing up they lived in the projects and while his dad would talk about working with Marvin Gaye and others he and his siblings laughed it off because their lifestyle never changed. He didn't even know the songs his father wrote. And this son is in his mid forties.

Ironically, many of these songwriters who made little in the '60s are getting significant royalties now via remakes and samplings.

As David Miekle once posted: We're (meaning foreigners) are more passionated about it. Now that statement is true. But I don't know about being more knowledgeable about all aspects, which includes these artists and songwriters lives outside of music.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:34 am:

Medusa, my susta, I would like to ask you a question...How did that thought even enter into your thoughts? The thought being:

"It seems that the music we call 'Soul is more appreciated N other countries..."

Those kinds of questions can cause DMeikle to go into another fit on us because of our responses to that statement. I'll be nice though and just leave it alone. :o)

By Scratcher (65.238.127.166) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:44 am:

Soul music and rare soul music is appreciated by a cult of thousands worldwide. Like RD said some just network better. I would bet that northern soul fans in the States outnumber NS fans elsewhere. But most are unaware the product is out there. For years NS albums were unavailable in the States. There were places you could order from but most people didn't know of them. As for the knowlege: most, if not all, of the info about this music comes from people in the States where the music was created.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:51 am:

Hmmm.... I'm inclined to go along with Sis. I actually typed out a long reply to this question earlier this afternoon, and then thought better of it. I deleted the whole thing to avoid starting or precipitating another heated exchange.

Statement of fact: we all love the music. Let's not get into a "who loves it more - us or them?" debate.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:54 am:

Soul music is appreciated by all who love the music.

Soul music fans come from all corners of the world - no one area has more than the other.

This Forum is proof of the prior comment - we all love the music and we come from many parts of the world - from the USA to the UK, Thailand to Switzerland - we are everywhere.

Thank you,
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:56 am:

HEY MED!!!...I DON'T THINK SOUL MUSIC IS *MORE* POPULAR IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES PER SE...BUT TO A SMALL NUMBER OF HARD CORE FANS...LIKE THE "NORTHERN SOUL" MOVEMENT IN GREAT BRITAIN FOR EXAMPLE...IT CAN BE MORE GREATLY APPRECIATED...SINCE WE MAY TAKE CERTAIN THINGS MORE FOR GRANTED OVER ON THIS SIDE OF THE POND!!!...IT'S SORT OF LIKE SAYING THAT AMERICAN HUMOR IS MORE POPULAR IN FRANCE THAN IT IS IN THE U.S...BECAUSE THEY "IDOLIZE" JERRY LEWIS OVER THERE!!!...IN OTHER WORDS...CERTAIN FOLKS MAKE UP FOR IN ENTHUSIASIM...WHAT THEY MAY LACK IN ACTUAL NUMBERS...MY TAKE!!!...STUBASS

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:11 pm:

LOL @ Ritchie!

By Scratcher (65.238.127.166) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

I stated there were probably more NS fans in the States as opposed to the European countries strictly because the population is larger, plus many relatives of the participants would have an interest if they knew these recordings were available, which many still don't.

By Vonnie (67.40.203.32) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:25 pm:

On my trips to European countries, I was amazed by the number of artists from the states that took up residence in these countries. The common thread that was reiterated when I asked "why", was we are appreciated here more than in the states. This theme was consistent for all genres of music.

Vonnie

By TonyRussi (68.18.39.39) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:38 pm:

I appreciate the fact that alot more of the music I love(Soul/R&B)has stayed "fresh" or more current in the UK & other countries due to being rereleased ect over the last couple of decades.I remember in the 70's "My Guy" was rereleased in the UK and went to #13 on their national chart.Mary Wells was able to captalize on that with a successful tour of the UK and I'm sure that same situation happened with other soul/R&B artists. Mary did not receive any royalties from that rerelease & I think that was about the time Motown came out with the YesterYear 45 series here in the states. The mass media here in the States seems to treat record artists as if they are only as good or newsworthy as their latest hit.Look at Tina Turner....it was Europe that really made her a superstar>Maybe its the difference in marketing or record distribution.I have called the local HOUSE OF BLUES many times wanting to get our heroes booked and besides a few like James Brown, Etta James, Martha Reeves & the Vandellas, Aretha Franklin their itenerary is all what I would call Rock Acts and their young people answering the phones don't even know what the Blues are.So...I'm trying to say we fans are here but with big corporate giants like Clear Channel controlling everything from radio to ticket outlets to airplay(legal payola) its hard for the masses to know that an artist like Laura Lee is wanting to perform.I hope I didn't take too many twist & turns here.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:40 pm:

Vonni - I just deleted a long statement which I was about to post about the system over here, which had nothing to do with soul music. :o)

I'm going to sit in a corner instead and be quiet.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:41 pm:

Tony:
Your point was well made. I could chime in further but my feelings pretty much mirrors yours and others.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Scratcher (65.238.127.166) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:41 pm:

Especially jazz artists. But many also relocated outside the States for reasons they won't tell. Smart performers go where ever they can to make a living doing what they like to do.

By Common (209.2.55.169) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:49 pm:

Hello everyone,

I've attended some oldies/soul concerts here in States & they always seem to have a full house. In the summer, there are alot of free concerts that feature alot of prominent soul artists & always there's a huge turnout. So I tend to agree with KevGo. Just from the diversity of posters that post here, I'd say there is a strong following for the music.

Peace!

By 1Wicked (24.126.64.120) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 02:45 pm:

I'd have to say that there is just *another* level of appreciation in Japan and Europe for R&B and Jazz music and musicians. Think about some of the out of print (U.S.) "Classic Soul" music you want to re-acquire. Where can you find it ? Yeah...Japanese re-issues. The P-Vine label (to name one)is huge and it seems that 99% of what they deal in is R&B. One of their artists....a certain David T. Walker is HUGE there, but far too many people here don't have a clue as to who he is and what he's done. Patti Austin is also developing a large Japanese following. Many artists in R&B and Jazz have found audiences in Europe to have either far greater level of respect for the artform than U.S. audiences or greater respect for the artists themselves AFTER the sun has set on their careers here. It has been said that "3rd wheel" Jeffrey Daniels (of Shalamar) has attained a higher level of stardom for a much longer period of time in the U.K. than Howard Hewitt or Jody Watley have in the U.S. since Shalamar's demise. Edwin Starr often spoke of how royally he was treated in England years after his last hit record. Prior to that, many artists relocated to the U.K.to escape the prejudices that have long been a destuctive and divisive force in this great nation. Even my father said of all the places he would like to revisit just for pleasure (based on his WWII experiences), he said France...because he was treated better as Black man there than he was his own country.

And Scratcher...a few (or a lot) of jazz artists relocated to areas with more lax drug atmosphere. (Consider the times...Dexter Gordon, 'Trane, "Bird"....)

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 02:52 pm:

Lax drug atmosphere, Hahhaah.

What did Josephine Baker say about leaving this country?

By Dave Rimmer (213.120.107.224) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 04:50 pm:

It's a facet of the British character that we collect things, and those of us that decided, in the late Sixties early Seventies, to collect Soul records, did just that. We as a nation are slightly obsessive with collecting / learning everything we can about the things we collect. In the case of Soul records it was learning about the artists, the labels, the producers, and it might well appear that out knowledge is greater. That is because we have been doing this thirty years, and not having access to artists in the way that people in the States did meant that we did network better, we did write magazines (Some of us still do :-)).

The difference shows in the forum though because there is a clear distinction to my mind between the people who use this forum. There are artists, producers, musicians, writers, arrangers, promoters, and all the other people who were involved in making the music we all love, and people who knew the above group of people as friends. Then there are the record collectors, who have all the minute details of information regarding the records and labels. Nearly all this second group (and I do acknowledge there are US collectors who fit this description) are those who have been slightly obsessed with the music for the last thirty years, and nearly all are UK (Or Japanese) based.

So it appears that there are a disproportionate number of knowledgeable people in the UK compared to the US.

There are probably far far more numbers of knowledgeable people in the US, but they are not as well connected as those in the UK, and are probably not on the forum either. With regard to the UK members here, I would guess that I know 80% of the UK members personally, and if I don't know the others, I know of them, or know someone who knows them.

The key to this being that whilst the internet has made the world a much smaller place, the UK really is a much smaller place than the States, so the UK collectors have been meeting each other all over the place for the last thirty years, with the specific purpose of listening to Soul music. An example, David Meikle and I only met a couple of years ago (He's from Scotland, I now live in the Midlands, but we met at the 100 Club in London.)but it's a fair bet I know other Scots that know him, and he knows other people in England that know me.

How many of the US members can say they know more than a handful of people outside their own city. You might have got into contact with them through the internet, but did the Detroit people know the Cleveland people, or the New York people before the internet. I would guess in most cases not
Except the record collectors probably did :-) because they are just as obsessive as we are :-)))

Enough from me, I'm beginning to waffle, put simply, there is probably more knowledge in the States, but much much more organisation of that knowledge in the Uk, so we appear to know more.

By RD (63.188.32.205) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 05:21 pm:

You echoed what I posted Dave, you guys networked better. You organized it, affixed values to particular singles and wrote about the participants. But as for collectors there are people in the States who have floors of warehouses filled with old records. There's a guy in Cleveland who has a warehouse full of records. I know ex disk jockeys from the sixties like J. L. Wright who have hundreds of rare records that he won't sell to anybody. There's thousands of unrummaged attics and basements with rare recordings.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 07:23 pm:

Dave thanks for an excellent viewpoint.

In England, Wigan Casino had 100,000 members over a six year period. I would say with confidence that most were not serious record collectors.

RD, was there/has there ever been such a club in the States devoted to uptempo Sixties Soul?

What I'm saying is that this is not about record collecting per se.

I would say that the 100,000 are the flame.

The guy with the attic full of rarities is the embers.

David

By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 07:37 pm:

Pretty impressive post, Dave Rimmer. I think you captured a significant difference between US/UK Soul or other black music devotees.
I found that the UK jazz/blues research guys know each other (but don't necessarily like each other!).
In the States, I meet new research guys every once in a while but with the 'net there are now common interest Forums (such as this one) that effectively function as a conduit for information.

By RD (63.188.32.205) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 07:50 pm:

Nope, not only wasn't there any dedicated northern soul clubs there weren't any northern soul nights at clubs. There were also no magazines devoted to rare soul music. I said as much in previous post that foreigners networked and organized the history of the music better than Americans.

However, we did dance in clubs, at parties, canteens, cookouts, etc to whatever was danceable. Different cities played different music. You heard some music in the south that you didn't hear up north and vice versa. There was many dance clubs they just were not called northern soul.

We also had many black dance television shows that featured many of the artists that later became northern soul favorites; the reason was because the top black artists appeared on the big network show like Upbeat and not shows like Ken Hawkins World of Soul where I saw artists like Roger Hatcher, the Soul Notes, Lee Jennings, the Precisions, the Persians, etc. Those acts never made it to Upbeat or Bandstand.

You also have to remember that what is known now as rare northern soul was mostly local. It may come as surprise to you but 95 percent of Golden World, Ric Tic and some other Detroit soul labels was never played in Cleveland and other cities. But that doesn't mean the disk jockeys didn't received the records to play from some promo man. So copies are around. We heard less than 95 percent of the rare soul from Philadelphia. Capsoul was a record company in Columbus, only two of their recordings by two different artists were ever played on Cleveland radio. When the discographies started appearing in the '70s people like myself were shocked at all the music we hadn't heard.

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.4.76) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:01 pm:

ok, whatever...just asked a question and said what I thought, (from my personal experience) and.... .my goodness, I'm so sorry!...I will NEVER post another Topic..(not that it really matters)...Goodbye SoulfulDetroit.com

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:06 pm:

Don't forget what I called "Bar Hopping." I cannot count the clubs in detroit which were crowded, not just on the week-ends, but during the week also. Long lines outside at all the clubs on Fridays and Saturdays. Graystone-long lines, 20Grand - long lines. St. Stephens - long lines. Juke Joints - long lines. Dance Halls - long lines. There were lots of dance halls having cabaret. If you were to count the numerous soul fans on one night, in Detroit, it would surpass 100,000. We celebrated our music then, and we celebrate our music now sang by our soul brothers and sisters.

This Friday there will be over 100,000 on West Grand Blvd at the Taste Fest celebrating our soul music. It's going on all this week, and will probably be a total of a million who would have attended.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:09 pm:

Medusa...Am I missing something here? Chill baby, nobody said anything bad. I don't want you going anywhere OK?

By RD (63.188.32.205) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:12 pm:

Medusa, this is a good discussion.

David may I add that Robert Pruter has organized the history of soul music in Chicago better than anyone from the UK; and howabout the guy from Los Angeles, is it Steve Spropes (sic)? He did a pretty good job on the complex L. A. soul scene. Rob Bowman did a fair job on Memphis and southern soul. Now you guys have done the Detroit scene better than anybody because you centered on it and nobody from Detroit bothered to do it. Go to any city and you'll find some very knowledgeable people on the history of soul music in that city.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:17 pm:

Medusa - I know it was my first post that upset you. I'm sorry.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:21 pm:

DMeikle - Oh, I don't know what uptempo sixties music is. Give a couple examples.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:24 pm:

RD:
I would also like to add the name Peter Guralnick to the list as well.

His book "Sweet Soul Music" is a great chronicle on 1960s R&B music, especially from Stax/Volt & Muscle Shoales.

The gentlemen (I'm sorry - names escape me!) who wrote "Land Of A 1000 Dances", which covered the East LA scene and the rise of Latinos in rock and soul is another fine book as well.

Finally, Gerri Hirshey's "Nowhere To Run" I highly recommend - it is Soul Music 101 and she interviewed quite a few Motown folks from Martha Reeves to Richard Street (who discussed in great length his replacing Paul Williams in the Temptations). This book, to me, is what blew the doors down on the history of American R&B as it was told right from those who were there (it was published in 1984 and was updated twice).

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By RD (63.188.32.205) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:27 pm:

Bar Hoppin' and House Hoppin' too. In the sixties as teenagers any house that had a red light shining on the porch indicated a party and all were welcome, including total strangers, cause you sometimes paid a dime or something to get in. We would hit five or six houses on a Friday or Saturday evening.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:46 pm:

Just got in from barrier reefing (as Mel would say), an inside Joke! Ok I have to agree with everything Vonnie & 1Wicked said as I quickly scanned the threads. Sorry, I hate to keep using Jimmy as an example but thats the experience thats right in front of me that I'm witnessing at this time in my life. Jimmy (as other artists esp. jazz artists) do get much more recognition and appreciation for their art in Europe & Japan, the people also put high praise & respect on the veterans or elder artists, esp. in Japan. Where they revere their elders unlike in the U.S. where everything is geared toward the youth (such as the rap crap that we hear today) for commercial reasons, the almighty dollar. Not in Japan, heck, there were young fans & one girl who was holding Jimmy by his legs because she did not want him to leave after he finished his set. They will follow the artists around from one town to the next while touring in their country, lavish them with flowers, gifts, & poinant letters declaring their love & devotion. What artists get that in this country, the appreciation & recognition they deserve, especially not jazz artists, there is very little for a jazz artist in this country, thats why they prefer working abroad, at least they can earn a decent livivg there and this is another reason jazz artists relocate overseas. The oldies that we love also are much more appreciated by the foriegn audiences. What do we have here just the PBS show on t.v.(which I LOVE!) and occasional road shows at a local theater or club every now & then. For me bring back the old days of the chitlin'curcit, so we can hear beautiful music again and see many highly talented vocal groups in one place.

By DUSTYROSE (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:05 pm:

Sis,KevGo,Ritchie I agree with you 100%.

Is it just me,or is this thread destined to become another "them vs. US" marathon.

I've noticed that when Northern Soul is mentioned,
the tone turns.
Some choose to take the bait.
I hope more choose to opt-out of the discussion.

With respect to all.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:08 pm:

The young hip hop stars of today bring hugh crowds, just like the 60's stars did in their day. The 60's stars who perform today may not bring such crowds today because of the times. The promotions of the concerts are not good. But, the 60's stars still have groopies following them from town to town. Thousands of groopies in the States spend plenty of money traveling to see these groups every chance they get.

Back in the day, when an artist from the States would go abroad, they were treated like kings and queens, and I guess they are still treated that way by those fans abroad. These are the same artist of whom we associate with, grew up with, played with, went to school with, sang with, and hung with while they rehearsed. They are our neighbors. They are family. There is a difference there.

By RD (63.188.32.205) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:13 pm:

Right Sis, we knew them on a personal level and didn't put them on pedestals cause when they came off tour or came home from a gig (those that did) they came back to the hood and was like everybody else.

I don't understand where Dusty Rose is coming from at all with this them against us statement; is he/she saying the topic shouldn't be discussed at all?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:18 pm:

DustyRose is saying: We have been through this UK v. US as it relates to our soul artist or music. We've been through this before. Actually, its good that we all love are music and arist. And no one loves them any more than anyone else. So, the statement "Soul is more appreciated N other countries" should be mute.

By RD (63.188.32.205) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:25 pm:

Yea, but you can't let a statement like that go unchallenged no matter how many times it comes up. There are many Americans who are knowledgeable about soul music. Where do some think the Europeans get their information from? From us! I've been around the music business since the sixties and find that assumption offensive.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:30 pm:

I agree with Sis & RD all both of you said. I am always trying to pull the coats of the groupies that what they are witnessing is just the public persona and has nothing to do with the real man, enioy the voice that God gave them but throw your romantic ideas out the window, artists are just human who's talent just happens to be a public one. I have been associated with artists on different levels for 45 years and never knew one to live up to the image! But for work and appreciation of their work, yes, and they do get that overseas. Not to say they don't get any here just that its expressed more widely there by not only the audiences but also by the types of venues.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:44 pm:

I guarantee if we could stay open all night we would. That is why they had after hour joints. Hahaha. They stayed open all night. Music, food, drink. You left when you left. The only thing illegal about an after hours joint was the selling of alcohol, and if applicable, gambling.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

Just because Japan remastered and released "So Soon We Change" and Gentleman Ruffin" on CD instead of WB, doesn't mean Japan loves David any more than I do. (Thank God, I wasn't too square, and asked DR to autograph three of my albums which I cherish.)

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:58 pm:

"Feeling Good", "Everything is Coming Up Love", "Who I Am." I probably couldn't put them up for auction because on each album he used my real name with a special message.

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:09 pm:

You go Sis ...

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:44 pm:

p.s. Look guys -- both Brits and Yanks are right, and they're also both wrong.

I love what the Rolling Stones did for American soul -- another Forumer told me today that there's a Starbucks CD in their stores right now that's a compilation of the Stones' favorite records...and it includes Andre Williams "Bacon Fat," from Fortune Records! How cool is that? Keith and Mick were great music fans and scholars and introduced, or in many cases re-introduced millions of white kids to R&B greats like Etta James when they'd have the acts open their shows.

But the Stones always realized that American R&B is a delightfully messy, mixed bag of influences, cross-pollinated across racial lines and not a narrowly-defined genre. Jackie Wilson loved Al Jolson (?!). Chuck Berry played sets of country music for his hillbilly audiences, and you can hear American country in all his stuff. I saw Pontiac, Mich.-based Lazy Lester down in New Orleans this spring singing "Your Cheatin' Heart" with a big smile on his face. People book him to sing blues, but his heart is in old country songs like that.

But Northern soul is narrowly defined to the point that we're looked down upon in Detroit for liking the "popular" stuff and not appreciating the artists who didn't make it. Or when an artist's career sputters, as often happens with the natural ebb and flow of popular music (even in the U.K.), we're guilty and they're "saved" by Europe.

But the music wasn't born and nurtured in Europe. And it's loved by Brits as "exotic," instead of an integral part of the greater whole of American music.

One thing for sure, Brits are more passionate about rare music that to us is yes, obscure. And if you had the embarrassment of riches that we did in Detroit to listen to in the '60s yeah, even the stuff that didn't make it sounds pretty good.

But would I tell Brits that I can interpret and explain British music of the '60s better than they can because my entire generation went mental over the Beatles and Stones? Because of the sheer, frightening passion of our adoration for them? Of course not.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:44 pm:

Can I get a bid? Let's start the bid with $1,000. Who will make the first bid on one of the LP's? :o)

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:45 pm:

Don't sell those Sis! I just want to know the personal inscription (grin)...

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:47 pm:

LOL, Ok, I"ll email them to you.

By DUSTYROSE (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:51 pm:

SIS DETROIT...YOU WERE VERY GENEROUS IN MY DEFENSE.
YOU WERE ALSO RIGHT ON THE MONEY EXPLAINING MY
POINT OF VIEW.THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU BRING TO THE
UNDERSTANDING OF MUSIC AND HUMAN NATURE.

CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'RE NOT USING THOSE SMOKEY SEATS.

HAVE A SOULFULL 4th.
STAY WELL,STAY SAFE

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:09 pm:

Thank you so much DustyRose! There is no telling how many will be out there with Smokie.
I'm not going to see him because I'll be on W. Grand Blvd with the other 999,999.

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:12 pm:

Stylistics?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:25 pm:

I don't want to drive that far to see Smokie. I'll just put his recordings on in the car while I drive only 3-4 miles to W. Grand Blvd. :o)

By Edgar (200.46.135.114) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:25 am:

Can I add a little perspective from Latin America? (Well, not that little, if we all get together, we are a huuuuuge peace of land.) Most of the countries that have considerable populations with African roots, have groups that are attracted to soul music: mainly Cuba, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Panama, although there are exceptions as Mexico, where most of the population is of native American origin. But I guess that Mexico is such a big, big city that it is easy to find soul records in their record shops. I have bought music in Mexico, in Colombia and Venezuela that I had not seen in Panama, so it confirms the opinion somebody expressed that it is a universal kind of music, loved by a very � shall I say select? - group of persons.

Panamanian music has many African elements in its rhythm, patterns, instruments... So, in my case, it was natural to feel attracted to soul. On the other hand, my father � who is of Arabian origin - felt attracted to it, so I was listening to Frankie Lymon & the Teenagers when I was just a little boy, when he bought their records home. My mother, who is of Italian parents, was not much attracted to it, though she still enjoys The Supremes. I think that there was a time when it was easier to like African-American music. The melodies, voices, even their stage presence, were very attractive. I cannot say the same about today's American hip hop artists. In any case, today almost all Panamanian teenagers are into "rap" (The General is Panamanian) or heavy rock, no matter their social classes. There are so many groups today of rock in Spanish, that you would not believe. Unfortunately, the Panamanian bands from the '60s and '70s that were in the line of groups like the Marvelettes and Temptations have disappeared.

There are two groups of African descendants in Panama: those who came as slaves, brought by Spanish conquistadors. They do not speak English and their music (which I love) is raw, based only on percussion. Back in the 1980s, in a little coast town of fishermen, on an isle called Isla Grande, by the Caribbean Sea, we would gather on weekends with them. All we had to do was bring "spirits" (especially for the drummers and the woman singers), chicken and stuff to make a big, big soup by the beach (just wood and fire, it wasn't too practical to bring a stove to the beach.) The drumming, singing and dancing would last until the next morning, and when somebody was too drunk or stoned he or she could have soup. (I don't know what the women put into it, but you feel very good after having that soup.) The proceedings are funny. Woman dancers attract you to the center of the group, and if the drummers let the drums fall, you have to pay a "fee". It's usually a bottle of rum. I think that the drummers and the singers plan all that, when they're running out of alcohol. They did that to me only once or twice, after that I would dance away from the drummers or join the women's choir. I loved to make them crazy, singing in very high notes or changing the clapping pattern. It was fantastic. Even the women's names had a musicality for me: Nanda, Isidora, Rumalda, Chomba...

Then, there is another group of descendants of people from Jamaica, Barbados and other English-speaking Caribbean islands, who came to work during the construction of the Panama Canal. From this group, since the 1920's there have been musicians who were later involved in jazz. One in particular, Luis Russell migrated to the United States and I believe he is considered a significant figure in the evolution of jazz. There are many old Afro-Panamanians musicians still living in New York and other cities. Of the younger generations, there is Danilo Pérez, a very gifted pianist, and some others. (I would not include Rubén Blades because he is into soul or jazz as much as I am into Tiny Tim.)

Dave once mentioned that the attraction to this music had to do with the fact that one can dance to it. I would add that it also has to do with the joy of living. I remember when I played "He's My Man" to a girlfriend in 1975, after we had not heard a Supremes new song in more that two years, that she said: "These women are fantastic! They are always so enthusiastic, so energetic, so full of life". Now, this may leave the blues out, but maybe not. There is a lot of energy, life and enthusiasm in blues performances, even if we can hardly dance to some of the songs. Well... I guess those are a few.

I take this opportunity to thank all the American musicians, composers, singers, engineers, arrangers, producers, etc. that have brought so much joy into my life with their soul music. Some belong to the forum, so I thank you twice.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 01:07 am:

Edgar - That was great! I felt the soul as I was reading. I wish I could have been there with you. Fantastic information. I'm ready to party now. :o)

For someone who put herself in the corner, I sure did say a lot. What I want to know is, what happened to the W CASINO in the UK? Why did it close down?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 01:14 am:

I was just reading information about Otis Clay on Ebay under "Northern Soul". The seller states "He is a genuine hero in Japan." That's great. Not only that, Otis Clay has genuine soul. A Chicago blues man, he sure can sing, both blues and gospel.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:22 am:

Edgar

I really enjoyed your contribution and found it quite fascinating. To add to one point you made, when Louis Armstrong needed a large band in the 1930s, it was Luis Russell's who were seconded as the "Louis Armstrong Orchestra." So, yes - his place in history is assured.

Sue

Harking back to the "Did you know" thread, could you identify the "bad liner note information" I have published on my site? If you let me know what the error is, I will of course correct it.

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:31 am:

RD

IMO, the most knowledgeable person on the subject of Detroit Soul Music history is Ron Murphy of Michigan.

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:45 am:

Sue

The Detroiters I talk to do not feel looked down on.

They are only too happy that someone is still showing an interest.

This website is about those who made great music but remained in the shadows.

Johnnie Mae Matthews, Mike Hanks and too many more to mention.

By JaSa (80.182.201.194) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:51 am:

2 me its hard 4 outside US people understand soul music,above all for whom dont know english cause to me the lyrics are very important.
its music that straightly came out from american music roots(Jazz,blues,gospel...)so i think american people could better listen to this kind of sounds

By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 07:33 am:

Edgar,

Luis Russell's band stands on its own in jazz history. Russell emigrated to New Orleans in 1919 after winning your state Lottery.
He moved to Chicago in the early 1920s and jobbed around until hired by the legendary King Oliver in 1925. A good organizer, Luis served as Music Director for Oliver's band during the next two years. The band gradually worked its way to New York in 1927 (including a stop in Detroit--don't know where).
Russell left Oliver and 'took over' another band which accompanied Armstrong for several months.
As Ritchie pointed out, his band later (1935) became Armstrong's back up orchestra and Russell remained with Louis until 1943.
Russell continued to lead bands although his involvement in the music business diminished and he ended up owning a sweet shop in NYC, taught music and was a chauffeur.
He made a return visit to Panama in 1959 and gave a classical music recital. He died in 1963.
Russell's late 1920s orchestra was cutting edge. He featured the great New Orleans bassist George "Pops" Foster, and musicians were impressed with the drive and power of the rhythm section. Russell's band was one of the first to use string bass & guitar as opposed to banjo & tuba. His recordings from the late twenties are fantastic!
(most of the above from Chilton's "Who's Who Of Jazz")

By RD (63.188.32.208) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 08:50 am:

David, I believe Lars is the fellow who has the website that list the Detroit soul labels in alphabetical order and their releases. I would like to see something like this for all cities that had recording activity: New York, Boston, Cleveland, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Chicago, Milwaukee, Oakland/San Francisco, Phoenix, Memphis, Atlanta, Jackson, MS, Birmingham, Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, and more.

People will be surprise at the recordings by known artists in out of the way places that has never seen the light of day for a multitude of reasons. Dennis Edwards, for instance, has done a lot of recording that hasn't been documented because it hasn't been released.

And prior to the Internet information about American soul scene was obtained via snail mail. We obscure soul music fans have been communicating in one way or the other since the late '70s.

By Common (209.2.55.170) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 08:59 am:

Soulsister said: "I am always trying to pull the coats of the groupies that what they are witnessing is just the public persona and has nothing to do with the real man, enioy the voice that God gave them but throw your romantic ideas out the window, artists are just human who's talent just happens to be a public one. I have been associated with artists on different levels for 45 years and never knew one to live up to the image!"

Do you need a witness??? LOL! I can't tell you have many times I've said that & got knocked for it. You summed it beautifully!

Edgar: Thank you for that post. I learned something new today & it was fascinating to read a fresh perspective about musical influences.

Peace!

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:07 am:

Hi RD

I would like to see that too.

David

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:19 am:

A quote from "RD"

"David may I add that Robert Pruter has organized the history of soul music in Chicago better than anyone from the UK."

Agreed - a book that everyone interested in soul music should own.

A quote from Robert Pruter :
"The best writing and research on soul music has been done by the British,who, as in the field of blues, were the first to apprerciate and study the music with the seriousness it merited. Much of the research has been done by buffs, autodidacts whose enthusiasm for the music led them to trace down and interview many popular
and semipopular artists that the mainstream press
such as Rolling Stone and Cream ignored.

... The best historical writing on soul appeared in the British monthly "Black Music" .. Many of the sources I have used were written by writers appearing in these magazines namely John Abbey,
David Nathan, Clive Richardson and Cliff White.

In North America, coverage of soul music, especially the Chicago area, has been abysmal..."

If Robert can acknowledge and appreciate the immense contribution the UK (and Europe) has made
to documenting black music I don't understand why
you appear to dismisss that contribution because
it's not from the US.

Quote from Scratcher

"As for the knowlege: most, if not all, of the info about this music comes from people in the States where the music was created."

Errr, where do you think we expected the knowledge to come from ? We weren't interested interested in writing fiction, we (the collective
UK soul fans) were, and are, devoted to recording that history. It was UK writers who asked visiting
singers and musicians about where they recorded,
who play on the records, what there background was
.. the questions that innumerable artists have said "Nobody asks us questions like this at home"

The question of who loves soul music more - the US or the UK - can't be answered, we approach it from different directions. However what can't be
disputed is that the UK led the way in documenting
the history of the music made by all those thousands of artists who didn't become megastars.

The UK deserves props for doing what nobody in
the States was bothering to do - and as for
networking you do have telephones and a postal service in the US - that's what we used. It can be
done if you want it to happen - the fact that there were next to no soul music magazines in the
US speaks for itself. As far as I can see there were no North Americans magazines covering sixties soul until "Soul Survivor" in the eighties
and that was produced in Canada by some English
ex-pats.

A huge part of the ethos of this site is in giving credit where credit's due, even if it's
forty years on so it's only fair that the contribution of the UK to preserving the history
of soul music is acknowledged. Some people in the
US might find that unpalatable but it's the
undisputed truth.

Sincerely,

Davie

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:37 am:

As I suspected, there are more bad feelings stirred up by this, and nobody really has changed their view at all.

David,
I'm not making it up that many Detroiters who post here feel patronized.

To those who think Detroit has never documented its music:

Did you grow up here and read all contemporary accounts? I was here. I read Lorraine Alterman in the Free Press every week -- a record of her interviewing Marvin Gaye recently sold on ebay, with the A side of Marvin singing the "Teen Beat" theme song ("Teen Beat," as we "locals" know, was the name of her column). She and the News teen writer covered the R&B scene, especially Motown, in great detail, as did the Michigan Chronicle.

The various hippie rags, the Fifth Estate, even Creem Magazine, from whence I sprung, had stories about Detroit R&B. That's where I first heard about Fortune Records -- I knew the stuff I heard on Detroit radio, especially Nolan Strong's "Mind Over Matter," which got good airplay into the '70s, but I didn't know anything about the label until I read a story somewhere here about it.

Jim G made the point somewhere here before, that Brits seem to downplay the socio-economic roots of our music, and not really understand it. I agree.

Ritchie -- Harvey Fuqua didn't sing lead on 'That's What Girls Are Made For' -- it was Bobbie Smith. That info was picked up from some faulty liner notes.

By Scratcher (65.238.127.35) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:38 am:

Davie, I stand by my statement. The information you're talking about was gathered from Americans. I don't quite understand your dig at me. And that's totally BS that these artists weren't asked the same questions at home; the popular ones were, the obscure artists, probably not, cause there was no interest.

And F.Y.I. I still have copies of Black Music, the correct title is Black Music and Jazz Review and it was an excellent magazine and was by far the best soul, jazz, reggae magazine ever. But my main point still stands: the reggae info was gathered from Jamaicans (most of the writers actually went there and got true accounts), the soul articles, from American artists and historians, and the jazz stuff from the artists themselves.

And the Larks on Violet was a Cleveland group not the Philadelphia group so I suggest you rewrite your bio.

By Scratcher (65.238.127.35) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:43 am:

Davie Gordon I just read the Larks thread and I apologize for reiterating the Larks error.

I don't think anybody is saying the British haven't done a great job in chronicalizing and revealing obscure soul music that was ignored in the States.

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:48 am:

Let me say again that British musicians and fans have done so much good for American R&B and blues.

But to extrapolate from that that the Brits document and understand it better, I agree that's true with the obscure artists, yes. But with the bulk of the popular artists, no, I'd have to disagree.

By Scratcher (65.238.127.35) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:56 am:

BTW, David Nathan didn't write for Black Music & Jazz Review, he wrote for Blues & Soul, which wasn't as good for me because it was more mainstream.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:04 am:

Sue

Oh, dear. Thanks for the correction, but the problem is - that widely-repeated "fact" does not actually appear on my website. Yes, once again it's in the liner note to the Spinners' recent "Essential Collection", (as it was in the earlier "Sweet Soul Music" compilation) but it isn't me who is perpetuating the error. The same "fact" also showed up in Alan Pollard's profile of the Spinners in Chatbusters magazine, and I immediately emailed Alan (and Rik) with the correction.

Apart from the fact that Bobbie Smith has confirmed time and time again over the past three decades that he sang the lead on the song, the vocal on TWGAMF doesn't even sound like Harvey.

By Nancy (24.156.108.159) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:10 am:

I have not really gone over the whole thread, but I just wanted to say one thing quickly, I have lived in Canada my whole life about to move to the Bahamas, believe me soul music is appreciated out of the us

By Scratcher (65.238.127.35) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:16 am:

I don't want to beat a dead horse but Davie Gordon can you tell me how many Europeans Robert Prueter consulted to write his two excellent books on Chicago's soul music since they have the best info and documentation? I'll answer that: None.

There were soul music magazines in the states, many of them, just none whose theme was northern soul.

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:25 am:

Scratcher

Northern Soul is uptempo Soul music.

We need to get the titles of these magazines you refer to. I'd love to buy some.

Please advise.

By Joe Moorehouse (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:30 am:

As a record collector who buys, sells, and keeps a lot of old 45s, I've found that some sub-genres of soul have a bigger audience in the U.S. (Transition stuff, Deep Soul, Sweet Soul, etc.), some have a bigger audience abroad (Northern Soul, X-Over, etc.), and some have significant audiences in both places (Big City Soul, Funk).

My personal preference is for the Northern sound, which of course is defined by the UK scene of the same name. That scene has been the impetus for a tremendous amount of research by British fans, and I owe a great debt to them for their soul work over the past 35 years. I can't count the number of terrific records I know about only because someone in England unearthed and shared them, and a substantial percentage of what I know about soul music I have learned from Brits. I'm also deeply jealous of the UK club scene, which I would happily lose myself in if it existed on this side of the pond.

Ultimately, though, I think this entire discussion is kind of silly. A finished piece of music belongs not to the musicians who performed it and not to the country that produced it, but to anyone in the world with the ears to hear and enjoy it. Trying to parse which demographic appreciates it 59% and which appreciates it 41% is an accountant's game, and what fun is that?

In any case, the very site on which we're having this discussion is the product of a Scotsman's vision and a Detroiter's technical skills. That spirit of international cooperation in the service of soul music seems like a pretty good model to me.

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:36 am:

Sue

So people are talking about us behind our backs!

You are the first person to tell me that they feel patronized.

I travel the city and receive nothing but warmth.

Is this just a front?

I don't think so.

David

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:41 am:

Thanks for that Joe.

David

By BankHouseDave (195.93.50.10) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:49 am:

I'm with you, Joe.

When did this become a competition?

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:58 am:

Hi Scratcher,

"BTW, David Nathan didn't write for Black Music & Jazz Review, he wrote for Blues & Soul, which wasn't as good for me because it was more mainstream."

Yeah, I know - sorry if it wasn't particularly
clear that the paragaraph I quoted from Robert
Pruter isn't the complete text. There's a few
sentences between "..Black Music" and "Many of the .."

To avoid misunderstanding everything from "The
best writing" down to "... abysmal" is quoted
from Robert's "Chicago Soul" although I have omitted some sentences none of which change the meaning of the quote.

I too prefer "Black Music.." for the quality of the writing but Blues & Soul had its good points
too - I always thought of them as complementary
rather than in direct competition with each other.

"Davie, I stand by my statement. The information you're talking about was gathered from Americans. I don't quite understand your dig at me."

OK, first off my apologies for the tone of my post
- caught me at a bad moment and I probably took
more out of it than was intended. I couldn't understand the necesssity for saying the information was gathered from Americans - if we're
talking about US music where else would the source
information come from. Do you see what I'm getting at ? - nobody's disputing that the info.
has to come from US sources, they're the people who made the records. The inference I took from
your comment was that because the interviews or
whatever were published in the UK it was somehow
second-best. I understand you didn't mean it that way but that was my initial reaction.

"I don't think anybody is saying the British haven't done a great job in chronicalizing and revealing obscure soul music that was ignored in the States." Good, we agree on that, anyway LOL !

Davie, who's just had two cups of coffee with a lot of sugar and is getting back to his usual
equilibrium :-)

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:04 am:

Joe Moorehouse - An Accountant's game, and what fun is that? (LOL) That's why I stay away from the accounting discussions, and just surround myself with the soul.

DMeikle - I was trying to ask previously, what happened to that popular CASINO in the UK, and the Twisted Wheel? Are they still open?

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:18 am:

Sis

Wigan Casino was demolished a number of years ago.

The Twisted Wheel closed in January 1971 as a result of concerns about drug abuse amphetamines).

It re-opened a couple of years ago and it's next event is a week tomorrow.

I'm hoping to go to it.

Here's a list of what is happening in the UK in the next 2 months.

http://www.soul-a-go-go.demon.co.uk/uknsevents.html

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:19 am:

Mudusa

We met at the event.

You're a lovely lady and I want to see you back on the board.

Please.

sincerley
David

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:22 am:

Hi Sue,

"The various hippie rags, the Fifth Estate, even Creem Magazine, from whence I sprung, had stories about Detroit R&B." OK - first off that was a
quote from Robert Pruter about "Cream".

"Creem" wasn't available at all over here until about '74 and even then I doubt you could find it outside of London. I used to buy it regularly
but I don't recall any coverage of soul outside of
the occasional album review. Alice Cooper, Jefferson Starship - yes, Marvin Gaye, the Temps
- no. I'd like to have seen the earlier issues from 69 to say '71 there was probably far more in those issues to interest me than when the magazine
became nationally distributed.

Rolling Stone was useless for soul coverage - there were occasional album revierws by decent writers but other than that the only thing I can remember was a feature on The Jackson 5.

"That's What Girls Are Made For" - the only version of this I've heard is the one from the
"Original Spinners" album which has Bobby Smith on lead - I've never heard the original Tri-Phi
single but a lot of stories on the Spinners say
that harvey Fuqua sang lead on that. This could
well be a case where the version that most people
know. from albums or CD, is a '67 remake with
Bobby on lead whereas the original 45 has Harvey
on lead.

If somebody has both the single and an album version I wish they'd compare them and let us know.

Davie

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:30 am:

Davie

The version on the Spinners' debut Motown album is identical to the TriPhi 45, except that it's had reverb added (I assume this was for the stereo issue of the LP, where the track is in reprocessed stereo.)

By RD (63.188.33.215) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:35 am:

KevGo, I was thinking Peter Guralnick when I said Rob Bowman. I have all the books you mentioned plus many more. I'm not a fan of Nowhere To Run because there's nothing in there that I hadn't already read before. The Richard Street comments had been written about in the late seventies in Black Music & Jazz Review, he was very candid. I'm also not a fan of Nelson George writings about soul music.

BMJR was the best magazine I too have ever read about soul and reggae music. Because of BMJR I'm not as hard on Ian Levine as some others. BMJR did an excellent two part story of Ian Levine around 1978 nearly 10 years prior to his Motorciy Projects. At the time he was coming to America and recording unknowns like Evelyn Woods and Barbara Pennington. The man went through hell to accomplish his projects including a brush with death.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.155) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:12 pm:

Last night I went to a new Northern Soul venue, deep in the city of London. I met some good people there. However I was early, as I wanted to do some research into why the scene over here is still evolving. It's a long story, but, I chatted to, of all people, the waitress staff (as one does!). One of them was from Argentina and the other from Jamaica. They were both in their twenties and did not have a scooby what Northern Soul was. I tried to explain, before the music started. When the music did start, I saw them delivering drinks and changing the ash trays, whilst dancing at the same time. I asked one of them what she thought and she said she was enjoying the music. I must admit, many of the original 45's played were obscure and I had not heard them, but all in all, it was a promising social event. I guess, in time those bar staff could get to like the uplifting style of this music and seeing people applauding certain records must have seemed strange to them as it does to me. I only witnessed this, for the first time myself a few years ago. Last night I saw the whole dance floor applaud a Velvelettes track. Amazing. I find the term 'Northern Soul' a little condescending as I remember using the term '60's soul', in the early seventies, before this terminolgy existed.

The politics over here are very deep with this. There are factions of different fans at different levels who attend all nighters or buy the vinyl. The commom denominator is the music, but, many of them support a new club, like last night, but have extemely differing points of view on the evolvment of this music. I never did go to the all nighters. I am happy still learning about the music from both sides of the Atlantic and wherever possible meeting those connected with the music. It makes me happy.

Medusa - get back on here! I miss you! It is very rare I post these days, but it is your thread that has made me pipe up.

Dave Rimmer - I did like your comments.

Joe - I did like yours too.

Medusa - don't forget what I said. Please come back. You are very important.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.155) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

I meant to say - last night somebody recommended SoulfulDetroit as 'the' web page for accurate information about Detroit soul. Specifically where all the studios where situated. Small world.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:20 pm:

I've emailed Medusa apologizing to her for being so abrupt in my first post, and asked her come back.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:26 pm:

DMeikle - Thanks. Periodically, I search the norther sites. I know you do not go out as you did in the 70's. Admit it. You've slowed down. :o) I know I have. I couldn't bar hop now if my life depended on it. But, don't get me wrong, I make my rounds from time to time, as you all know.

Carl Dixon - So, now the young over there will began to enjoy 60's soul and we will have a new generation of 60's soul lovers. Where you live, are they listening to rap music? Are there any rap groups there?

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.155) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:48 pm:

Sure, the young ones watch the many music TV stations that pump out all sorts of music. They are influenced by this media coverage, something that was not available 40 years ago. There was pirate radio that played, illegally, Motown and other stuff, but that's a different kettle of fish. I never thought a good song would need a video to sell it, although I like to see them. It is a visual history accompanying the song, but I think this is part of the problem being discussed on another thread. The kids have a great choice, but the market place has TV stations playing the latest vidoes, so they get preference. I think it is time for a 60s/70's/old skool channel. Lets get all the footage out and make a soulful blitz on the market place! KFC did, with a few old soul numbers and have increased door sales at all nighters, it seems.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 01:16 pm:

Hey Gang:
First of all, I hope Medusa does return. She created a great thread here and we are all communicating humanely. I miss her passion and spirit.

Thanks for the post, Edgar. I'm learning so much from your information.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Dave Rimmer (213.120.107.224) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 02:40 pm:

Carl

I think you might have the wrong idea about nighters. They don't sell doors, just records...........I'll go away now !

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:19 pm:

Common;
Thank YOU for keeping it real! Many can't, they seem to want to beleive whatever fantasy they have in their own heads about a public person any public person thats celebratized.

Edgar;
That was beautifully put man! I spent alot of time in the Caribbean & with Caribbean peoples, there is alot of soul down there with their own stylee or special flavor put to the music, and its big fun!!! It brought back some joyful memories to me.

Thanks to you both,
Soul Sister

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:39 pm:

Davie,
No, I wasn't referring to your reference to Cream, the rock group. I was referring to Creem, the rock magazine, where I was a writer. And I don't think I had enough "refers" in that sentence!

As for Harvey singing lead on any version of "That's What Girls Are Made For" -- Ritchie, I was looking at some Spinners info on sites and I thought I was on your page when I read it. Thanks for shedding light on that. I'm glad you corrected Chatbusters and no, you're right, that doesn't sound like Harvey at all on record. When Bobbie asked me to correct that info he didn't mention that Harvey was on any previous take of the song.

David,

I'm not going to respond in kind to your message. But I will say that things like this aren't black and white issues, it's not like we're either with you all the way or we're against you, like some mountain feud.

The warmth you feel in Detroit is genuine. But a lot of stuff has been said in the last week, some repressed hostility toward Americans -- Detroit "locals" especially -- and some people picked up on that. That doesn't mean the warmth went away, but it complicates the Brit-Yank relations here perhaps, and has led to yet more testy transtlantic discussions.

People talk to me, and I'm frank in conveying what they say, while they might hold back for fear of offending. I try to also be polite, which is why I've tried very hard not to shoot a testy reply back.

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

Oh and Davie --

Yeah it's the early Creem, '69 until '74, that I'm talking about. It's before I worked there, they operated especially in the first year almost like a local mag.

But there were many many more local publications than just Creem; I know writers who relocated here in the late '60s just because there were so many publications here to write for, plus the music scene was hopping. The Fifth Estate is just one, and music was heavily covered by all.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:46 pm:

Sue

So you think I have an underlying hostility against some Detroiters.

Incredible!

David

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:59 pm:

Maybe it's appropriate that this discussion is happening on the eve of July 4!

David,
Reread my post -- hostility toward Americans was expressed here, yes. Americans. Not appreciating soul artists or music enough, not documenting it ...

You're not really "listening" to what I have to say so I'm going to give up trying.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 06:17 pm:

Thanks for getting off my back Sue.

I am only an ordinary guy who is passionate about ALL Soul Music.

I would like to think that those who have found me hostile will understand that I feel pressure because of this. Remember these web arguments can flame very easily.

I love the United States and it's people and that is a fact.

I also love the truth and will stand by it as I see it.

My heart will always be in the city of Detroit.

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 06:32 pm:

David,
If you read my posts, I have neither been on your back, nor hostile.

I don't understand letting these kinds of conversations get hostile -- even if we disagree, we can be friendly.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 06:39 pm:

Thank you Sue.

My friend Harry Dhesi pointed out to me last night that my one sentence paragraphs can appear very hostile.

I use them to ensure they are read.

PEACE EVERYONE.

Thank you
David

By the count (69.14.113.157) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

SUZIE DARLING,hey baby, your voice mail is full and wont activate.I left 2wo messages with the reseptionist for you at DET.NEWS.As you said we need to talk,so e-mail me a special S.W.A.K. and I'll give you my # and we kan kommunicate.
Thanx baby doll.
"COUNT"

By Countless in Motown (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 07:37 pm:

Well Count that sounds like some hot date (S.W.A.K., sealed with a kiss) that you're getting yourself into with that newspaper girlie goyle, eh?
Just maybe she knows it's really only you and won't return your call (he he he).

Just remember when you go on this board wit dah sh*t, then you're goin' public wit aw dat!

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 08:50 pm:

Medusa9e2003,

You know I'm not a tough guy, but I've taken some good 'ass whippins' in my lifetime when I was growing up, was knocked off my feet but I always was able to stand up against my adversaries and look them right in the eye, because they couldn't run me off.

Foolish? Well maybe I was.

But that's the way it was growing up in southwest Detroit. I never left, and I'm still here.
Churchill once had said that "eating words have never givin' me indigestion."

But I have too many friends on this forum for me to just walk off, and to just plain leave, really. And I am once again reminded of the old sayin' that goes like this, "nobody will ever get ahead of you as long as you allow them to kick you in the seat of your pants", and sometimes you have to just step aside-- that's just how it goes in life.

Medusa9e2003, as a friend... I won't compound any further on this, but it's your call. Please return because it would not be the same without you here, and it's right here, that's where you belong.

By Sue (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:18 pm:

Count,
Sorry about the full voxmail -- email on its way ...

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 02:58 am:

Dave - educate me about all nighters. I have only ever been to one and I left at 3am! The place was full and was a great atmosphere. They do not sell doors. Does that mean there is poor attendance figures, but, the records sell quite well? I am interested to know. Thanks.

By SteveS (68.41.246.202) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 02:26 pm:

KevGo - Thanks for mentioning the Hirshey and Guralnick books. They're two of my favorites.

By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 02:50 pm:

I will reiterate my previous post by saying once again that the UK has been most supportive of my music, no matter how obscure , and every time that I have travelled there, I was always treated with the utmost respect, the kind that is unfounded in my own homeland.

I have had the pleasure of meeting many friends there throughout the years and we are always in touch.
Long live the UK!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

Eli - My soul brutha, other than buying the recordings you issued or produced or wrote, and other than going to see you when you were in concert and jumping up and screaming our lungs out for not just you, but for the groups you produced, what do you suggest we do to make you feel loved with the utmost respect over here in the US?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

But please don't ask me to do research and write a book because that's not what I do.

By MEL&THENSOME (217.14.178.1) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 03:09 pm:

Carl
try going to an all nighter on a friday night then on a saturday night then hit an all dayer on the sunday.
Do this for your first 5 years then youll know something about the all nighter scene
mel

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.3.148) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 05:52 pm:

The Answer 2 this Topic???? is STILL...
Y?...but of course!!!!!!LOL!!!!!

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 08:37 pm:

Hi Medusa9e2003,
Psst, hey...(welcome back).

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 09:50 pm:

MEDUSA - Alright, alright, alright. You win. I give up. "WELCOME BACK." As you can see the World Wide Web missed you. :o)

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:01 am:

Mel - I wish I had the energy! That sounds like some agenda, but I hear you loud and clear.

Medusa - give me a cuddle.

By WaltBaby (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 07:20 am:

I like RD reside in Cleveland. I also have spent a large portion of my working life in the record business from retail to record promotion(27+ years). I feel that because the entertainment business is so "youth oriented" in all aspects, and because the turnover at the top of these record companies is so high, and the companies are always on an neverending "youth movement", a great deal of great music that extends back before these young executives remember never gets to reappear when there is a new format (i. e. compact disc). Also because radio is so "youth oriented" here the perception is that the older music is underappreciated here in the states. I feel that until black radio expands to the point that there are more individualized formats for the urban music listener (i. e. oldies formats, adult contemporary, blues, black rock, progressive music, jazz) this music will not have a place to be heard on a consistent basis. As radio moves more and more towards "cookie cutter" formats where you can travel from market to market and it seems as though you're still listening to the same station, and everybody is playing the same thirty to fourty songs, radio is guilty of negligence of our rich heritage of great music. In the past before everything got so "sophisticated" at radio there were regional hits or records that surfaced in one or two markets and spread across the country. In this day and age this situation hardly ever exists. As a result I envy these foreign countries that have music issued in their countries (i. e. Japan, Great Britain) that I remember but can't even buy here. Anyone that has spent any amount of time on this forum, knows that there are a lot of knowledgable individuals here in the states as well as abroad. It is my opinion that in this way we are all pretty much the same. I am sure that if our interests were as intense about sports this forum would have just as many people knowledgable on that topic as this. As a rule on any topic there is a small percentage of the population that is more intensely interested and knowledgable than the masses. And the reason we are all here is because of the love of "soul music."
The media is asleep at the wheel also. To live in Cleveland and turn on the television and watch the local news and see and hear a one line story on an international star such as Edwin Starr, who grew up and started his entertainment career right here in Cleveland... "Edwin Starr is dead" that's all??? No mention of the fact that he while not born here grew up in Cleveland, went to Cleveland schools and started in a local group called "The Futuretones." There is a passion for this music here in the U. S. but it is not shared by all. If there are any doubts about that fact: Look how many postings about this topic there are in just three days.

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.5.71) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 08:30 am:

xoxoxoxooxxoxooxx!

By LostInSoul (172.139.36.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 08:40 am:

Why did some of you encourage ebonics writing Medusa back to stir up this mess again?

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 09:38 am:

Lostin soul..your last comment was uncalled for and racist in nature and an apology would be in order right about now!!!!!!!

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 09:47 am:

Also, if you are "lost in soul" you sure are perpertrating for it sounds to me like you are lost in a white sheet!!!!!

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 09:55 am:

WaltBaby;
I know exactly what you mean, here at home where Jimmy was born and is residing, outside of the old timers, older musicians,a few at the Rock Hall, and a sprinkling of media, Jimmy is less know than other places not only in the world but also in this country where he has Jimmy Scott Days, Keys to the City, big news reporters and fans running up to him on the street but in Cleveland he doesn't get the appreaciation in his own hometown he should, especially being a man of his age that has been in the business over 60 years. Now I don't know how old his friend Robert Lockwood the blues singer is but I'd guess other than Robert, Jimmy has to be the oldest celebratey Cleveland has, definately oldest jazz vocalist still performing all over the world today. But does Cleveland acknowledge the importance of this man and his career, sadly the answer is no. One exception Tri-C Jazz (C.C.College) just did a documentry on his career. Also other than Tri-C Jazz Festival there is no other venues for jazz artists here in Cleveland, the arenas are too big for one act, the only club Night Town sadly can't afford Jimmy & his quartet, so it goes Jimmy will be appreciated and in demand elsewhere other than his own hometown. Whats that the bible says about being a king in other lands but not recognized in your own home, or something to that effect. I think this is another reason many artists choose to live abroad, especially jazz musicians from way back who weren't understood here.
Thanks,
S.S.

By LostInSoul (172.146.228.181) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 09:55 am:

Bobby Eli this and other posts by Medusa is what I was referring to:

medusa9e2003 (66.73.7.182) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:09 am:

It seems that the music we call 'Soul is more appreciated N other countries and they're more knowlegable(?)sp. on the hsitory of 'Soul' Music
Y is that?????????????
Plus I can remember when the Beatles & other British Groups re-recorded a lot of Motown stuff..I think it's great, but my inquiry mind wants 2 know...is it because most of U R a musicians from that era or...???ahhh that's it isn't it????
I've learned so much here, and I live right here N Detroit, when I was younger, I heard a lot of
rumors. If I were 2 ask some Detroiters the questions we get here, they wouldn't have a clue...I appreciate the respect U have 4 Motown, Philly and other 'Soul Music', and thanx 4 keeping it 'Live, I 4 one, am very greatful...(oh and again, no offense 2 anyone).

No apology is neccessary.

You should apologize for your numerous racial stereotyping posts about rap music? Many rap artists have more education than you.

By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:05 am:

Hey SoulSister,

I think the honor of being the world's oldest active jazz vocalist belongs to Detroiter Herb Jeffries, a/k/a the "Bronze Buckaroo".
Herb sang with Earl Hines, and with Ellington's legendary early 1940s band ("Flamingo").
He's now 86, and Little Jimmy is a mere 77 or 78.

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:06 am:

My posts are not "racial stereotyping" but a fact of life and just the way it is .
The people with the "real money" , whether Black, White, or any other race find no need to adopt the " how you like me now " attitude because real wealth speaks for itself.
And by the way, what university did you attend????

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:15 am:

Jim G;
You are so right! Tho' I don't know if I would classify Herb as totally Jazz. (?) Herb was one of Jimmy's idols growing up and saw him perform at age 90 two years ago in L.A. He was great! Re: Jimmy I was mainly referring to oldest being from Cleveland and one if not the oldest jazz vocalist peforming around the world. Does Herb still travel the world performing or mainly in L.A. these days??
Best,
S.S.

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:20 am:

Jim G;
Sorry, I didn't see you posted Herb's age, Jimmy thought he was 90 two years ago(?).
Jimmy will be 78 on July 17th. We are both Cancers (Moonchildren) Smiling..I was born on the 23rd. right on the cusp. We will celebrate our birthdays in Japan this year.
S.S.

By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:26 am:

Good observation, his credentials for me are his stays with Hines and Duke, whom Herb idolizes.
I heard him in 1985 and he was still pretty good and sang some jazz stuff. But Duke wanted him for ballads. I read recently that Herb just performed in, I think, NYC.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.58) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:42 am:

Hey Soulsister
Im a cancer.
mel

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:44 am:

Jim G;
I forgot to mention Jimmy was "Little" from 1949 till around 1962, before he grew from 4ft.11in. to 5ft.7in. in his late 30's!(In '49 after Hamp tagged him with that name, soon after there was alot of "Little's" popping-up in the 50's & 60's). Then he was just Jimmy Scott till 1985. After his'(so called) comeback in 1985 he was then referred to as Legendary Jimmy Scott from then on...
S.S.

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:46 am:

Yipee Mel, no suprise no wonder your so compassionate! (smile) When is your birthdate andthensome?
S.S.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.58) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:49 am:

They say it is also on the cusp Soulsister
21.7.60
still nothing but a pup baby
but got in the groove
really young.

mel.

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:01 am:

Melandthensome;
OK Pup! July 21, good. They say 5-days either side of cusp you have traits of both signs, but the way Iam, I definately lead more towards Cancer traits, I always say my Leo side gets me in trouble (Ha-Ha!!). I was almost born on the 22nd. maybe that explains more Cancer than Leo.
This is also probably why I love water so much. Can't go barrier reefing today, too overcast, looks like a storm brewing. BooHoo....... I shouldn't even be on this computer, I still have so much to do in days! Oh well, I need to chill sometime.(smiling).
SoulbareingSister

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.58) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:05 am:

Take it easy with those Reefs Flipper,
Mel(landlubber)

By Charmedes (142.165.97.180) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:20 am:

I grew up in a German-Canadian family in a hamlet on the Canadian prairie with no exposure to concerts (other than Ed Sullivan) or entertainment newsprint (other than "Rolling Stone") and I simply loved the music right from the beginning. At first it was anything that had to do with the twist which eventually flowed into the Chiffons, Supremes, Jr. Walker etc.

Sociological theories and ethnic considerations aside; I think you are simply destined to love it.

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:28 am:

Melbuddy;
What kind of Cancer is a landlubber?
S.S.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.87) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:47 am:

Soulsister
one that stays mainly on dry land
although isnt afraid to go reefing it every now and again.
Cap'n Ahabs wooden leg
(alias mel)

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:28 pm:

SOUL SISTER!!!...SPEAKING OF OUTSTANDING JAZZ VOCALISTS WHO PERFORMED INTO THEIR LATER LIFE...I WAS PRIVELIDGED TO SEE THE LATE JOE WILLIAMS DURING A TRIP TO NEW YOUR CITY...PERFORMING AT THE "HALF NOTE" IN MIDTOWN MANHATTAN IN THE 70'S!!!...JOE W WAS A GREAT JAZZ STYLIST...AND ONE OF THE TRUE LEGENDS OF THE JAZZ MOVEMENT DURING THE MID 20TH CENTURY!!!...STUBASS

By Vonnie (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:55 pm:

Dear LostinSoul,

Please make your posts soul friendly. If you need to be enlightened, I'm the person who can DO IT!

WE LOVE OUR MEDUSA AND OUR BOBBY ELI! And there is room in my heart to love you also BUT without the snide remarks.

Vonnie

By SoulAngelSister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:17 pm:

STUDaddyAngelBASS;
Joe was a GREAT talent, Jimmy liked him both as a singer and a man very much. I use to see him in concert only on T.V. once in awhile, also remember back in the late 60's seeing him on Playboy After Dark. Good you got to see him! Are you coming to Jimmy's show in L.A.?
S.A.S.

By RODS (195.93.50.10) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:39 pm:

Im new to this site but if I were an American I wouldn't be too overawed by the Northern Scene. Most of the punters have little idea or appreciation of what they're hearing. In fact the majority would be happy hearing the same old stuff over and over. And here we're talking that proportion that have any kind of interest in what's being played. There's those who don't care cos it's a social scene for the 40+ and of course the speed culture is still there. Yeah, it's thriving but to do so it's reliant on nostalgia and in the main it's akin to being trapped in a gigantic Mr M's.
As for the collectors and dj's their appreciation seems to stretch no further than the value of a 45.Funny thing too the more valuable these things become the more US Northern fans you come across.
It's a real shame that what was a working-class phenomena with no pretensions has ended up as the playground of some rather large egos here and in the US.
Sue said we Brits dont understand the "socio-economic roots of our music". Believe me as a 17 year old skinhead off a council estate I know what living hand to mouth is and not being able to have what your mates at school had, and whilst Im not suggesting that class discrimination is anywhere near as soul destroying as racial discrimination, you still came across it in the late 60's. So we can relate, maybe more than you think, to the lyrics and emotions in your music.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:59 pm:

LostInSoul - It would be great if you would Lose yourself in space.

Medusa is our soul-sister, and your reference to ebonics is totally out of line.

We may debate and disagree in opinions on music, but we all agree that racist remarks are not wanted here. Your apology would be greatly appreciated.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

SOUL SIS!!!...PLEASE GIVE ME SOME DETAILS!!!...STU

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 02:52 pm:

Here we go again, oh well I guess you didn't see the post a little while back requested by 1Wicked(?). Ok STUBASS:

"Grand Performances" on the Water Stage at California Plaza, Watercourt, 350 South Grand Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90071.

2-sets starting at 8:00pm.

Do you have my e-mail? Anyway I'll try to e-mail you a photo, you do the same so I'll know who you are.
SoulscreeningthedressingroomdoorSister (smile)

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

THE *DATE* SOUL "ANGEL"...THE *DATE*!!!...CLICK ON STUBASS FOR MY E-MAIL!!!...MY PIC CAN BE FOUND ON THE "FUNK BROTHERS" L.A. CONCERT THREAD!!!...I'M THE GOOD LOOKING GUY STANDING NEXT TO TEDDIE MORROW!!!...PLE3ASE SEND INFO!!!...STU

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

LostinSoul,
As moderator I've been looking at this thread with some interest. Sis and Vonnie are telling it like it is. You're stepping on the line a little. Please temper your remarks.

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

STU;
I already had your e-mail and sent the pic.
Sorry, the date is August 8th.
What month was the Funk Bros. LA concert thread?
S.S.

P.S. Better be careful about posting your e-mail from the thread I read the other day!

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:16 pm:

SOUL SIS!!!...IT WAS STARTED APRIL 18TH OR 19TH...THE DAY AFTER THE "FUNKS" LA APPEARANCE!!!...STU

By Soul Sister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:33 pm:

STU;
Found it! Cool picture of you. The photos look great esp. the one of Sherrie Payne with Ralph & Russ, very clear focus, nice.
S.S.

By SoulangelSister (65.43.167.42) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:46 pm:

STU;
Got your e-mail answer...COOL.
S.A.S.

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.14.128) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 09:01 pm:

Lostinsoul,
I hope I didn't misunderstand U, but just incase I did, I apologize this very moment...and If I didn't, then I think U need 2 know, I'm not a racist..please!!!...I don't think MUSIC comes N colors, but SOUNDS~ vocals, Lyrics, rhythms, tunes...and most of all Talent,but please tell me where U think I was racist on a topic/Thread? ..as far as Rap, it's not really music anyway, it's Rap and Rap means 'Talk'...and as far as being educated, U don't know me well enough 2 say anything about my education, , I have a right 2 voice my choice like anyone else, so until further notice, don't label what U don't know. I've heard enough Rap 2 know how I feel about it..and sorry, no offense but it's~
Rap, NOT music..thanks again.

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.14.128) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 09:03 pm:

..and U have a Masters, err PhD in what now?????

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 10:37 pm:

Hey Medusa9e2003,
You know, judging in what I've gathered by your sincereity by reading your posts....

I'm willing to bet that your like all forms of music, notably those we've grown accustomed to listening to besides just 'soul' music, say like for instance, like those golden hit's by the 'Buckinghams', the 'Byrds', 'Simon & Garfunkel', the 'Rascals', the 'Beatles', Patsy Cline, 'the 'Guess Who', the Four Seasons, just to name a few.

And I'm willing to bet you have some of those records probably by some of those I had mentioned above, somewhere, in your personal collection as well, and several more (of the non-R&B) records hits from the '70s and '80s, 90s, and maybe some from today, and so why not?

Because all 'good' music is just that-- and that's just plain listening to all 'good' music!

By Rasputin (68.42.158.155) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 01:14 am:

Soul ..... the beat of your heart, not your pocket-book! A life experience like no other in the world .... African in a strange land.

Black-atcha .... and not accepting placement into a "category"

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.6.123) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 07:52 am:

...and yessss, I do like all kinds of music...and i do know how 2 catagorize the difference.

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.7.228) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 03:39 pm:

Lostinsoul,
Anyway, It's not called ebonics, I call it short-cut, because it speeds up a paragraph or phrase.
..and I really think you have some kind of problem with me, do you???ahhhh,you don't like me snakes is that it? ok, never fear, I'll get rid of them...and from now on, just don't read my posts, non of my others SDF family hava a problem with it. Does anyone here have a problem with my short-cut writing? If you do, please let me know and I will stop it...but on the other hand Lostinsoul, this is for you~~~I think U R just Lost...period...just leave the 'soul' part out, until U R more comfortable with yourself....and making a statemen about Bobby Eli???U don't have a clue who he is do U???

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.7.228) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 03:42 pm:

Jim Feliciano,

Hello there, I didn't know you lived in Southwest Detroit, I live on the east side of Detroit, near Ryan Rd. I also work at the DMC.
Nice 2 meet ya!!!

By SoulJones (62.253.64.6) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 06:49 pm:

MEDUSA9E2003, What a great thread, I've enjoyed reading it (it took me about half an hour!). Sorry to open the discussion up again, but then it was a good question.

Living in England I've always felt there must be more soul fans in the US, and if so why are'nt they talking about it. Which for me being 27 I've been dying to read a US based magazine about this music I love, and which all sounds new to me whenever I hear a new song (old classic).

And maybe that's what the we brits have done well, write about it. We had magazines in major retail outlets/newsagents such as Blues & Soul/ Black Echoes. Even now Uk publications seem to cover nu soul/philly etc. better than those in the US. If I'm wrong please SISDETROIT let me know and I'll buy whatever you recommend.

But the fact is in the south of England where I'm from I rely on written media to spread the word. I'm still waiting on a kick ass US soul magazine.

Maybe the answer is that in the UK we have specialits fanzines which cover soul, in the US you've got specialist radio and local media which can satisfy you which we don't get to hear of.

SISDETROIT, me and some friends are gonig to do america this summer, and we'd love to konw where those clubs are you talk about.


SoulJones

By Eli (151.197.118.232) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 06:56 pm:

medusa...you go girl!!!!!!!


and Rasputin, whoever the f**k you are, what the f**k are you spewing about?? whats in that "stash" rasputin??? capice@#$%^&*()

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:07 pm:

SoulJones - Those clubs were mostly in the 60's and 70's. But I'm sure there are quite a few clubs that would interest you and your friends. Start with the Roostertail, Bert's Place, and Baker's Keyboard. Probably at Bert's you will find several of your Northern Soul idols. That's where they gather. I will think of a couple more that may interest you and your friends. What would be better is to recommend you hang with my brother, who makes the rounds.
DMeikle or Graham can probably recommend places which will interest you.

By SoulJones (62.253.64.6) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:28 pm:

SisDetroit,

OK I'll get the lowdown from them. I have to admit though northen soul isn't my bag so much as sweet philly soul. I know where 8 mile rd is though - any chitlin near there?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 08:58 pm:

Yes. Jamerson, Jr., bassist, plays on West 8 mile road once a week. Mr. Wendal, bassist plays on East 8 mile road near Gratiot once a week. Frank Bryant, Bassist (Just Brothers) plays on Gr. River once a week. The Spinners drummer plays at an east side club once a week. That is when they are not on the road. But they would know where to go for the type of music you want. My time was in the 60's & 70's, I can only join the circuit once a month. ((LOL)

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 09:39 pm:

Hey Souljones,
A most welcome... to you, to Detroit's one and only soulful 'chat' club online, of that which you have found right here-- welcome aboard and enjoy your stay!