|By SB (188.8.131.52) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 05:51 pm:|
Anyone interested in speculating about how Sam Cooke died? I know he is dead and gone – but I am not sure I don’t agree w/the ones that feel the investigation should be reopened. There are so many conspiracy theories out there and it is true – but in this case and IMO – this case was bungled from the get go. I can understand if some don’t want to go here – but some may.
Did anyone read up on his death and come away amazed with how the investigation went down – and how he or she arrived at their conclusions concerning his death?
In a nutshell - I believe this Boyer lady ran to the office of this Franklin lady when Sam was in the bathroom. She was let into the Franklin apartment, just by flashing that roll. Meanwhile - I believe Sam had looked out the window of his room and saw Boyer be let into Franklin's apt. after he discovered her – his money and his clothes gone, and that is why he went there.
The two women quickly discussed how much money Boyer had stolen from Sam, and they both decided the "Roll" was on for real, because it was a big $tick. When Sam knocked on the door - they lay in wait for him. Boyer's hit him w/a broom, and as he kept coming - Franklin shot him. I got my detective brain on now you see.
And - after the shooting, is when Boyer's ran out of the hotel and called the police. Now - she took his clothes with her when she ran from Sam's room but not from Franklin's. Why? She testified, that she had mistakenly taken his clothes when she fled! Right - and I got lake front property in Arizona for sale. What kind of detective work was being done in that LA police department back then - huh?
IMO - Boyer thought Sam would be too ashamed to try to follow her w/o his clothes. They never found his clothes either from what I've read - so Franklin hid them real good before the police got there.
If Sam had approximately $5K on him - then in those days - evil folks would kill for that amount of money.
I understand that some folks are trying to get the investigation reopened - and I don't blame them. Boyer was arrested for prostitution exactly one year from the day - Sam was killed. In 1979 - she was arrested for second degree-degree murder in the death of her boyfriend. Come on!
Again – excuse me for speculating but - I had to get this off my chest. I am still too thru about it all. And surely I know that, if these women conspired to kill a man for his money - then Franklin’s journey from this world to the next was not easy or painless (if she's gone from it), and neither will Boyer’s be. God is the final Judge, I know. But I am a little more than outraged about it, if indeed this man was killed for his money, and I know others feel the same.
The writer of that wonderful put together and well written piece would not call it Murder - because he concludes that Boyer was not in the room at the time of the shooting, in that she had fled to the phone booth by then. (But he never really explained in his opinion at what point he felt she fled and why – for didn’t Franklin have a phone in her room?) So he concludes, that Franklin was scared out of her wits, because it was just she and an enraged Sam left in her apartment. Now come on!
If Sam had a hold of Franklin's writs then, how could she have gone to get her piece? I’d bet big money, that she had that gun in her hand when Sam walked into that room - unless there is ample evidence that she had bruises on her wrists. And if she did not - then they ambushed that man for his money, because they wanted it more than all justifiable reason.
I know there are all kinds of conspiracy theories out there - and for the most part - I also know that there are always to sides to every story and the truth - but this story smacks of lies, mistruths, the unexplained and the unbelievable - IMO. I will admit, that I learned about the story just months ago on the VH1 special – but reading up on The Sam Cooke Ultimate site – just brought it all home to me. (And no pun intended)
I do declare! Everyone must meet their demise and this is true - but wherein the way Sam died - the story told by these two women - just doesn't fit neither of the three's supposed motives for doing everything they supposedly did - IMO? What kind of inquisition was this - where so many holes were left unfilled?
I feel for Sam's family and wonder if they are behind the push to get the case reopened.
|By SisDetroit (184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 05:54 pm:|
I was a teen-ager when Sam was murdered. I knew then that something wasn't right with the story. Is Franklin, the lady who killed him, still living?
|By David Meikle (220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 06:01 pm:|
I was listening to "Lord remember me" this evening.
A unique vocalist.
I must read his book again.
|By SB (18.104.22.168) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 06:03 pm:|
David - whose book must you read? I want to read it too. Thanks.
|By dvdmike (22.214.171.124) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 06:14 pm:|
It would take some real digging. Most of the principles in the case are either dead or missing.
|By KevGo (126.96.36.199) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 06:23 pm:|
There have been a few "theories" floating around Sam's cause of death for years. Etta James said in her autobiography that she believed Sam was killed by the mob because of his stature in the music business & that the Boyer/Franklin story was a ruse (Etta couldn't believe the bruises she saw on Sam's face could've been caused by a woman hitting him with a club). Allen Klein (Sam's manager) wanted a full investigation but dropped the request weeks after the death. Even my Dad felt something was being swept under the rug but wouldn't discuss the matter of Sam's death.
There is a biography on Sam Cooke called "You Send Me" (I forgot the author's name but it's available at Barnes & Noble) that basically endorses the official cause of death while addressing (and shooting down) the theories.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
|By SB (188.8.131.52) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 06:31 pm:|
Yeah - but Kev - my reasoning has nothing to do with theories per se - you see. I believe like the author of that piece does, in that, there is no way the mob could have made Sam go w/a prostitute to an obscure motel. They had no way of knowing that Sam would have been so inclined to take this woman up on her offer - so my reasoning is based on the known players of this scandal, and the likelyhood of what supposedly happened. And I'm not saying, I know what the spam I'm talking about either.
The mob will always be linked to this or that conspiracy theory - but in this case and IMO - they do not enter into these particular circumstances.
Some feel that Berry Gordy & Paul Williams had ties to the mob too - but I don't know that I put any stock in that belief either.
|By DF (184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 07:49 pm:|
Just a thought. Sam Cooke, Otis Redding and Jimi Hendrix. All three of them had some type of control over their work, which was unhreard of at the time for any artist at all, let alone black men. Just a thought. Peace.
|By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 08:52 pm:|
More on the (ongoing then) controversial shooting death of Sam Cooke, in December, 1964... check it out, here's the direct *link* below:
|By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (18.104.22.168) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 10:01 pm:|
Here's to anyone on this forum,
You can leave a note & flowers in loving memory of Sam Cooke, here:
|By KevGo (22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:31 am:|
Thanks for the links. Mindblowing....
Kevin Goins - KevGo
|By Common (126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:44 am:|
I finished reading Sam's bio about 2 weeks ago. Fascinating stuff! From what the author concluded, it sounded to me like a botch robbery. Though, the events afterwards, especially Barbara's marriage to Bobby Womack, would obviously raise suspicions but in this case, it seemed more of a tragic circumstance as it pertains to Sam. I also saw that site that Jim posted, which was complied from Daniel Wolff's book, "You Send Me"(the book that I read). Nevertheless, it doesn't change my view that Sam Cooke made & gave so much great music to the world. May he rest in peace!
|By David Meikle (188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:59 pm:|
Thanks for this thread.
It has provided us with a truly important and info laden website via Jim Feliciano.
I urge everyone to trawl thru the site.
|By SB (184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 05:47 pm:|
..."It’s been too hard living, but I’m afraid to die, I don’t know what’s out there beyond the sky. It’s been a long time coming……but I know a change gone come...”
It seems along w/all the other qualities and attributes Mr. Cooke possessed – he was also prophetic. And so was Martin & Malcolm – and this is partly why I am easily touched by it all, and why I cry.
Any black person alive that grew up during the civil rights movement experiencing segregation, violence and death, and all the rest – could never forget, that when we witnessed injustices and cruelties heaped upon our people, which ultimately led to pain and death, we felt it in a deep and sad place too – because we knew – that it could have just as easily been us and others we knew and cared about the next time.
As young children it touched us so much until, we would hide behind our parents or grandmothers skirts and pants, and hold on to some piece of their clothing. It touched us so much until, we would feel so sad and felt like crying. And – more than not – we didn’t even understand it all, or why we felt it. It was just something deep – that we felt in our bones – along with all of our senses.
Sam was a Solider for justice just like, the aforementioned men – along w/many - many more. Surely – he gave us music and that was grand and great – but most of all – he gave us love and hope. He was a great man and a stand bearer for truth and justice, and although they were being denied to an entire race of people, they did then and will always stand on their own (Justice and truth). We also love(d) him because of his music – and in that, there is no question. We also feel the same way about others whose music we love(d).
Isn’t it ironic that Music is the Only thing that binds and unites people – countries and cultures like no other living thing of this earth, except Love? Music – heals – it teaches – it soothes and it renews – but Love is and has always been the most important key and common denominator.
Sam mostly gave us Love – because he cared. Martin gave us Love. Malcolm gave us Love. Many more folks of all colors and cultures gave us Love. And - this is why we still care about them all and still miss them.
Love will always conquer hate. Love will always stand tall and strong against evil. Love will always triumph, after everything is all said and done.
Of course – we can’t bring Sam back – but we have the right to wish he were still here and wish that he was not taken away from us so cruelly. Just like we have the right to Love and miss the other soldiers that stood up for justice – Love and peace. And - can we not imagine what the families of these soldiers feel? They still miss them 10 times as much as we do.
We will always have the right to Love and miss Sam and all the others that have left us. But we must always remember to Thank God for having known them – and also Thank Him that their spirits still live on and strong in our minds and hearts.
I didn’t start this topic for thanks or recognition. I started it because it is a message forum, and I needed to get some of my feelings about Sam’s lost out of my system. It is I, that should be thanking the owner(s) of this website. And I do thank all that provided this forum for me to express myself. But who knew that just a week ago – I would have ended up here – renewed in my admiration and Love for a man that gave of himself, and out of a deep and abiding Love for his family, people and his Heavenly Father.
Btw – whatever happened to the money that Sam had on him? And – why did the judge and chief inquisitionist believe this Boyer woman was kidnapped? Just because she said that she was?
My main thing is, that in all of my life – I have tried to be fair. And, I believe in justice for all. I’m sure Sam was a fair person – and we know that he believed in justice. Not all crimes are solved and this is true – but his death is different than all the rest that we wonder about – because the principle players in this saga – should not have been believed so easily, and because it smacked of a prostitute rolling another John, but this time it led to the foulest of play.
And after thinking about it some more last night – Boyer could have grabbed Franklin’s wrists and twisted them (for the cameras - sort of speak). It takes only a few evil thoughts and minutes to cook up a story as to why there is a dead man in the room – and a few minutes here or there wouldn’t stump a coroner trying to pinpoint a time of death. Too bad and most definitely too sad.
I see Smokey Robinson left a note at Sam’s graveyard site link. I hope it was Smokey. And if it was – may God ease his journey into His House.
P.S. & on a lighter note*****Where did Sam get that he was born in a little Tent? LOL! I had never heard that one. I have heard of a shack – hut and teepee – but not a tent. He was something else! And I miss him all over again.
And supposedly, Aretha had a crush on Sam. I wish she would tell us about it. I hear ‘ya Aretha – for who wouldn’t have had a thang for that fine “Sweet Soul Stirring”, man?
|By SisDetroit (220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:13 pm:|
SB - That was deep! I wish I could have explained that on the other topic about artist going back. It is as you described regarding the music. Sam was my favorite from since I was 5 years old when he was singing gospel as a teen. I have a photo of him with his high school quartet called "The Teenage Highway QC's." Did someone say that Sam made the statement that they had no idea what the letters "QC's" meant? :o)
My beloved Sam Cooke!
|By David Meikle (18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:25 pm:|
Thank you for revisiting us SB.
|By Don (22.214.171.124) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:08 pm:|
To All The Soulful Fans. Yes I to have read the You Send Me book on Sam Cook(e}, and it was very insightful and helpful too. As far a Mafia input into all of it is rather I would say doubtful. But I don't want negitivity about my comments from Sam Cooke music-fans about my opinions, because he was an multi-talented musician, composer,singer, producer, businessman and thee ultimate artist no doubts about it.I've somewhat have done resreach into this matter also. There is nothing wrong with a paperchase, because alot of crimes have been solved using this ways of means. From what I've read and what I've heard even viewing the VHI's LEDGENDS on Sam Cooke. I just want to cut out some of my comments and I'll try not to upset fans, and to get straight to the point. Back in the golden era of R&B fans didn't treat their musical heros with total abandon and disreguard, cause anytime a artist of such magnitude and especially when they'd visit in the African American Community would always get respect, unlike in the Hip Hop community nowadays. I mean performmers didn't have to worry about their car being stolen or mugged or visiting and coming out of a club. I guess it was a thrill of seeing an sport/recording hero in ones midst at least that was told to me by those who came up around the era's. I've read and seen the VH1 docummentory, though i still can not concieve that Mister Cooke didn't at least have a shofurr or a bodyguard, and why he decided to do or to go it alone,like he did? I mean, don't get me wrong mind you their could be some crazoids even in those days too, you dig, but even then it was something unheard of something as of this tragic crime to ever have happen. Now I'am not a PI nor a reporter I can put one plus two together also. I do support the young lady who started this Forum on Sam Cooke and I do agree with some of the statements and comments that we're made also parties that we're involved, no matter how one or the other reacted the man lost his life ov'r money?! Yes, I think there was an blotched investigation at the time, and the L.A.P.D. couldn't have cared less because he was rich and famous (but futhermore} a Black Man. As I've stated in the opening of my comment it is somewhat hard to believe their was an Mafia Conspricy,hmm? Yet I think it was thee act of these two lowly women,hmm? I'll cut to the chase by stating in my opinion about the Mafia might wanting to cut into the profits cause we all may never know the truth behind to all of the rummors. Like Ray Charles, James Brown had control and power ov'r they're masters recordings and song copyrights, as later would Chuck Berry, Quincy Jones, Otis Redding, and Sly Stone. To the young lady that started this Forum on the Late Sam Cooke I think,in my opinion, VH1 did some good investigating and solving the lost puzzle in putting together the pieces, and I really don't there should be a new investigation 'cause VH1 did some cracking. I mean who's to say especially to hardcore Sam Cooke fans who'd really want to know and at least cares enough. As fans we will never forget nor want to forget the artistry of a truly musical legend. My prayers go out to the Family and Friends of Sam Cooke.
|By stephanie (126.96.36.199) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 10:56 pm:|
I personally think that Sam was killed not by the mafia but by some other people who were plotting with the prostitute woman. From what I have heard and read people dont want to reopen the case because his family was getting nasty letters and death threats if they reopened it. I really dont know but it seems to me that it was more than Sam bringing some woman to a hotel room. They let those ladies off too easily and back then I guess the culprit knew they wouldnt care because he was a black man.
|By Chad (188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:01 am:|
Don your premise that black recording artists in Sam Cooke times didn't have to worry about being robbed and mugged is wrong. They got robbed, mugged and had cars stolen. It happened so often that most carried pistols and had bodyguards. Their expensive clothes, jewelry and famous faces put a big bullseye on their back.
|By 1Wicked (184.108.40.206) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:28 am:|
I remember the day that Sam Cooke died like it was yesterday. Soon after, I found out that Ms. Franklin was the niece or cousin of a family friend (in Texas). I wanted to find out if she had any details...but sometimes we know when it's best NOT to get in "grown folks business". I recently asked this same family friend's daughter if she had any recollection of any conversations regarding the incident....and she claims not to even remember any family ties with Ms. Franklin NOR any conversations. Sorry.....not buying it.
|By Michael/cleoharvey (220.127.116.11) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:31 pm:|
I seem to remember the media at the time making a big deal of the "white" woman that Sam Cooke was with at the time of his death. It was almost as though the powers that be thought he should die because he was crossing racial lines. That was another less tolerant time and African-american performers were taken to task for "messing" with the whites sexually. Think Sammy Davis, who almost assuredly had his eye taken out by the mob for messing with Kim Novak (released FBI files seem to confirm this), and Leslie Uggams who experienced death threats when she started going with her husband of 36 years, the Australian Graham Pratt. I suppose we will never know the true deal with Sam Cooke, but to a young teenager reading the papers at the time, something just wasn't right about his death.
|By fayette (18.104.22.168) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 05:21 pm:|
i just recently read YOU SEND ME,And it left
me with a lot of questions.i was in the third
grade when sam died but always knew his music
gospel r&b etc his legacy lives through
my parents who first introduced me to his works.
the question that always puzzled me was
why was he in that seedy part of town.and
the book stated that he was only wearing
his jacket when he was found,his last
words were LADY YOU SHOT ME said by bertha franklin as sam's last words.I sometimes
wonder was he lured there to be robbed.but
there's a lot of questions that need to be answered.
|By SisDetroit (22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 05:57 pm:|
I didn't know that was why Sammy Davis had one eye.
|By Soul Sister (126.96.36.199) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 06:10 pm:|
Neither did I, wasn't it reported that Sammy lost his eye in that terrible car accident he had?
|By Sue (188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 07:10 pm:|
Sammy Davis Jr. was in a terrible car accident on the road from L.A. to Palm Springs -- that's how he lost his eye. The Mafia didn't care about him dating white women. The Kennedys surely did, and ordered him out of the Inauguration entertainment line-up, which infuriated his pal Frank Sinatra, who'd been tapped to line up the entertainment.
A recent book by Frank Sinatra's valet/chauffeur confirms that.
|By Ralph (184.108.40.206) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:23 pm:|
So does a recent special I saw on the Rat Pack Sue. Sinatra was so hurt by the snub that he tore up a helicopter landing pad he had erected for the Kennedy helicopter for post election visits. Also, he never again spoke to Peter Lawford, his brother in law.
|By STUBASS (220.127.116.11) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:30 pm:|
RALPH!!!...WHAT REALLY HURT SINATRA WAS THAT KENNEDY CHOSE TO STAY WITH BING CROSBY IN L.A....CROSBY BEING A NOTORIOUS REPUBLICAN!!!...ALSO...PART SNUB...BUT THE SECRET SERVICE HAD SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT SECURITY AT SINATRA'S PALM SPRINGS COMPOUND!!!...ALSO...SINATRA'S ATTACKS ON LAWFORD WERE REALLY UNFAIR...IN THAT LAWFORD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DECISION TO CHANGE THE LOCATION OF THE VISIT...BUT SINATRA'S TEMPER COULD BOIL SO BAD ON OCCASSION...THAT HE REALLY DIDN'T THINK IT THROUGH...AND TOOK IT ALL OUT ON LAWFORD!!!...STU
|By STUBASS (18.104.22.168) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:35 pm:|
ALSO!!!...WHILE THE WHITE HOUSE SNUBBING SAMMY WAS WRONG...RACIST...AND IN POOR TASTE...THE REASON BEHIND IT WAS...AS TO NOT INFURIATE THE SO CALLED "DIXIE-CRATS"...THOSE SOUTHERN RACIST DEMOCRATS...WHO'S SUPPORT WAS NEEDED FOR KENNEDY TO HAVE ANY CHANCE OF PASSING ANY TYPE OF SIGNIFICANT LEGISLATION UPON ASCENDING TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!...UNFORTUNALTY...SAMMY GOT DISSED...AND IT APPEARED TO BOTHER SINATRA MORE THAN IT DID SAMMY!!!...STU
|By SisDetroit (22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:37 pm:|
Did Sammy hang with the rat pack because he thought he was loved by them, or did he do it to enhance his career?
|By Soul Sister (126.96.36.199) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:38 pm:|
Thank you Sue & Ralph for putting it staight.
STUangeldaddyBass; I too, read the same thing in the Sinatra book when it first came out by that lady Kitty ? ,that Sinatra tried to get blocked.
After the accident Tony Curtis & Jeff Chandler went to the hospital to see Sammy, one gave him the star of David, the other gave him a cross. Sammy held them so tight in his hand that they embetted the outline into his palm forevermore.
|By SisDetroit (188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:50 pm:|
That answers my question. He felt the love from them.
|By Ralph (184.108.40.206) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:57 pm:|
Yeah Stu, I always thought Lawford got the short end of the stick. None of it was his doing.
|By STUBASS (220.127.116.11) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:07 pm:|
THE THING ABOUT SAMMY WAS THAT YES...HE ENJOYED HANGING WITH THE "RAT PACK"...WHERE HE HELD A SPECIAL PLACE OF HONOR...ALTHOUGH...MANY INSENSITIVE JOKES WERE MADE AT HIS EXPENSE!!!...THOSE JOKES...HOWEVER...APPEARED TO BOTHER SAMMY'S FAMILY AND FRIENDS MORE THAN THEY DID HIM!!!...BUT "HEY THER"E...IF YOU WERE AN ENTERTAINER DURING THAT ERA...BLACK OR WHITE...WHERE WOULD BE A BETTER...MORE FUN PLACE TO HANG...THAN WITH THE "RAT PACK"!!!...STU
|By SB (18.104.22.168) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:24 pm:|
Oh my goodness. I check back in and see that you all are talking about Sammy & Frank. I loved those two men. I even mentioned them in STUBASS's "Greatest Soul Singer Thread." I did it because - I was not ashamed to say how much I loved and admired them. And I thought they were both great singers.
I do feel those two were close. Did Frank truly have a better friend than Sammy? Surely - he had many from his home in New Jersey. Surely - he and Dean were tight - but he and Sammy had something deeper - IMO. They were both Sagittarius's also - like me.
Frank finally threatened to stop performing in Las Vegas if the casino owners would not stop discriminating against Sammy and let him stay in the same places he performed in. That was Frank. He stood up for his principles. He wasn't perfect - but who was?
I have the "Rat Pack" video - and I love watching it - every now and then. I also read up on how hurt Frank was about Sammy's accident. Frank truly thought that Sammy might not pull out of it - and that man prayed for Sammy. He was there for him.
And how about that last TV special and tribute to Sammy - shortly before he died. It was a great special and I loved it. Dean Martin tickled me - when he asked - "And who are we here for again?" Or something to that affect. And when Sammy (Almost over and out - and sick w/cancer) got on that stage and tap danced all ova Gregory Hines - I cried.
Btw - I got Sam's CD today. On the cover - he has his head bent down w/two fingers grasping the bridge of his nose. He has sheet music in his hand, and it appears that piano keys are shown in the background. Too much. I will play it in the a.m. when I start cleaning up.
|By STUBASS (22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:28 pm:|
SB!!!...NICE STUFF!!!...I'VE MENTIONED THIS BEFORE...BUT I'M GLAD THAT YOU LIKED THE "TRIBUTE TO SAMMY DAVIS JR." SPECIAL...IN THAT MY TALENTED BROTHER WAS THE MUSICAL DIRECTOR FOR THAT SHOW...AND RECIEVED AN EMMY NOMINATION FOR HIS WORK ON IT!!!...STUBASS
|By SB (126.96.36.199) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:32 pm:|
I mean to say Sam Cooke's CD. I just might have to get a Sammy Davis Jr. one too. Lord - I am gonna be broke buying up all this music I'm craving these days. LOL!
And STUBASS - you are so right - for Sammy decided years before the existence of any "Rat Pack", that he was safe as long as Frank was there and around. He might not have hung as tough w/o Frank ova the years.
|By SB (188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:51 pm:|
Wow STUBASS. You just don't say do you? Congratulations to your brother. I am impressed for real. Tell him for me that he hooked it up. In all of the specials that I've seen ova the years - that one was one of the best eva - IMO. It ranks up there in the top three to me. And right now, I can't remember what the other two might be. Tell him that he out did himself, and ask him if I could get a copy. LOL! Ahh - ha - you see it pays to have board mates in high places. LOL!
These tidbits aren't as big - but my first cousin played the lead guitar on Anita Ward's "Ring My Bell." He also played lead for the group - "The Controllers." Remember, their sweet slow hit in 1977 - "Somebody's Got To Win - Somebody's Got To Lose." (Somebody's got to play the fool)
I'll say. I am just too floored now. And I'm serious about your bro hooking a sista up. LOL!
|By STUBASS (184.108.40.206) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:58 pm:|
SB!!!...FIRST OF ALL...RING MY BELL WAS NICE!!!...AS FOR MY BRO...HE LOOKS IN FREQUENTLY ON THE FORUM...AND TELLS ME WHAT I POSTED LONG AFTER I'VE FORGOTTEN...SO I'M SURE HE GOT YOUR MESSAGE!!!...HE'S JUST A BIT "SHY" ABOUT POSTING...ALTHOUGH HE IS AN ACCOMPLISHED TELEVISION MUSIC COMPOSER...AND ALSO PRODUCED AND ARRANGED MANY GREAT RECORDINGS IN THE 70'S AND 80'S!!!...I'M SURE THAT HE APPRECIATES YOUR KIND WORDS!!!...STUBASS
|By SisDetroit (220.127.116.11) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:03 pm:|
StuBass - I video taped that show. Didn't you also say, you could see your brother somewhere in the show?
|By STUBASS (18.104.22.168) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:06 pm:|
WELL SIS!!!...HE'D BE THE SKINNY GUY CONDUCTING THE ORCHESTRA!!!...ALSO...SAMMY HANDING OFF THE MANTLE TO GREGORY HINES WAS A VERY MOVING MOMENT...AS KEVGO HAS POINTED OUT!!!...STU
|By fayette (22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:09 pm:|
thought we were talking bout sam cook???????
|By SB (126.96.36.199) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:12 pm:|
Ok - SisDetroit & STUBASS - we've got to get this thing scraight (I mean straight). I am willing to pay for a copy of that special - and the shipping and handling. Now - I know y'all have the power and werewithal to get this hook up and job done. Now what do I need to do next. LOL!
|By STUBASS (188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:17 pm:|
BRUCE???...BRUUUCE???...YOU OUT THERE???...HOW CAN WE GET THIS LADY A VIDEO???...HEY SB...WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE IF WE GET A RESPONSE...SINCE HE'S REAL BUSY THESE DAYS WORKING ON GETTING MY NEPHEW MARRIED OFF THIS SUMMER!!!...STU
|By STUBASS (184.108.40.206) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:18 pm:|
HEY SIS!!!...MAYBE YOU COULD RUN OFF A COPY...AND I'LL CHIP IN ON THE S&H!!!...STU
|By STUBASS (220.127.116.11) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:20 pm:|
HEY FAYETTE!!!...AS "ELITE ANGEL"...YOU KNOW HOW THESE THREADS SEEM TO TAKE ON A LIFE OF THEIR OWN!!!...BUT SAM COOKE...ONE OF MY TOP FIVE SOUL SINGERS OF ALL TIME!!!...POSSIBLY NUMBER 2 OR 3!!!...AND I'M SURE THAT SAMMY KNEW SAM!!!...STUBASS
|By Sue (18.104.22.168) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:54 pm:|
Yeah Frank also tore up his house, according to the book by his valet/chauffeur, he was so mad when JFK snubbed him by staying with Bing Crosby.
Sinatra hated hospitals, yet when Sammy was in the car accident that cost him his eye, he overcame his aversion to go sit with Sammy.
I was lucky enough to get a letter from FS in response to a review. He liked it! (I guess I'm one of the lucky ones)
|By Ralph (22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:15 pm:|
That's cool Sue.
|By Chad (126.96.36.199) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:51 pm:|
I thought the mob put Sammy's eye out for bedding Kim Novak. I read it somewhere on this thread.
|By STUBASS (188.8.131.52) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:55 pm:|
NO WAY CHAD!!!...I'VE READ SAMMY'S AUTOBIOGRAPHY..."YES I CAN"...GOOD READ...AND AS HAS BEEN STATED...HIS EYE WENT THROUGH A FUNNEL SHAPED CONE ON THE STEERING WHEEL OF HIS CADILLAC DURING A TRAFFIC MISHAP DRIVING FROM VEGAS TO LOS ANGELES!!!...THAT ACCIDENT...CAUSED GENERAL MOTORS TO REDESIGN THAT CONE...WHICH PROTRUDED FROM THE CENTER OF THE STEERING WHEEL!!!...STUBASS
|By Chad (184.108.40.206) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 12:01 am:|
Stu are you sure the mob didn't make that story up to cover their dastardly deed? I was going to talk about the mob putting out Sammy's eye at the barbershop tomorrow. Don't spoil it for me.
|By Treena (220.127.116.11) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 12:10 am:|
StuBass what kind of car was it? I saw the biography show on A&E but I never knew what kind of car.
|By SoulangelSister (18.104.22.168) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 12:44 am:|
Are you thinkin'what I'm thinkin'?
|By STUBASS (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 01:29 am:|
OK ALL!!!...I'LL SHARE WHAT I KNOW...BUT I WASN'T THERE!!!...CHAD!!!...I GUESS YOU CAN STILL TELL YOUR STORY AT THE BARBERSHOP TOMORROW!!!...PROBABLY JUST AS TRUE AS HALF THE OTHER S#$% THAT PEOPLE SAY IN A BARBERSHOP!!!...TREENA!!!...IT WAS A NEW CADILLAC...AND IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN...A SEDAN DEVILLE OF SOME TYPE!!!...AS I SAID...I VAGUELY REMEMBER THOSE CARS...AND THERE WAS A CONE COMING OUT OF THE STEERING WHEEL WITH THE POINT ABOUT 6 INCHES AWAY FROM THE WHEEL!!!...IT LOOKED COOL...BUT PROBABLY NOT FROM AS CLOSE AS SAMMY DAVIS JR. WAS TO IT!!!...CADILLAC REDESIGNED THE WHEEL THE NEXT YEAR SO THAT THE FACE OF THE HORN WAS MORE FLAT!!!...SOULANGEL!!!...I'M NOT SURE "EXACTLY" WHAT YOUR THINKIN...BUT IF IT'S FUN...I'M THINKIN IT TOO!!!...STUBASS
|By Treena (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 01:49 am:|
Stu, I never knew that, man that makes my face hurt just thinking about it! What an ordeal Sammy went through!
|By Don (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 02:01 am:|
To Chad. I never said that a celeb could never ever had any harm happen to them. Chad I don't think you've read my comments carefully, ok.
|By SoulASTUBASSANGELSister (184.108.40.206) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 10:56 am:|
I'm thinkin'you already mentioned the above pertinant 411! Duh!??????? We'll talk at another time. Amused in cyberspace!
|By medusa9e2003 (220.127.116.11) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 03:03 pm:|
~~~As much as I enjoy the smooth voice of Mr. Sam Cook, I don't see the gain N opening the case of his death...Most of the people concerned R either passed on, or probably don't remember, plus, the worst part is, It couldn't bring Sam back 2 us...it has been said " U may get by, but U wont get away". I'm sure someone paid 4 their part or paying 4 it now...so B it...
|By SB (18.104.22.168) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 03:12 pm:|
I have been listening to my new Sam Cooke cd all day. I saved it to a playlist on the real player on my computer.
In reading up on the background of the song "A Change Is Gonna Come", that's listed within the cd jacket - Sam explains how he was inspired to write the song, and the reasons for the lyrics. He said, it appeared as if it were dictated to him in a dream.
Below is a quote by him:
Like, "I don't know what's up there beyond the sky' - it's like somebody's talking about I want to go to heaven, really, but then who knows what's really up there? In other words, that's why you want Justice on earth."
I knew it! I knew that man was talking about Justice in that song. And that is what I was trying to explain in my second post of this thread. He wanted it for himself - and he wanted it for all. And that is why I wished he had gotten it even after his death.
He donated that song for the use of both the composition and the recording for an album to benefit Martin Luther King's Southeren Christian Leadership Conference.
Sam Cooke was one inspired and dedicated brother. His sky here on earth was surely beyond just his music. Yet - just like "EW&F", later wrote and sung - Sam was always able to "Keep His Head To The Sky." He always walked with his head up and held high. And he would look above for guidance, inspiration and Love.
May God continue to rest Sam's Soul.
|By David Meikle (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 04:21 pm:|
Thanks again for this thread SB.
|By SB (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 04:40 pm:|
You're welcome David & thank you. "Chain Gang", is playing now. Sam actually had the backgroud singers making ths sounds that the chain gangers would make. "Hoo - haa." (Or something to that affect)
Btw - I love your name. My mother's father's name was David & my father's name is David. My mother told me a while back that we were almost from Detroit. When my mother was 13 years old - my grandfather was planning on moving the family to Detroit - so he could work in a car plant. But - he died of a brain anerisum (sp?). He worked in the coal mine in B'ham, AL.
When she told me that - I replied that she was almost from Detroit - because if she had left B'ham - she wouldn't have met her David. LOL!
|By David Meikle (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 05:17 pm:|
Life is full of chance.
When we were in Harlem last month, we visited Bobby Robinson's record store.
Although long removed from his original location, adjacent to the Apollo; he is now 30 yards away a couple of doors up from a fantastic soul food restaurant which sits on the corner.
Anyway I was admiring some of the memorabilia in the front window and what comes blasting out the front door? Sam Cooke's "Change is gonna come".
What an incredibly fresh recording that is. Such a powerful message, beautiful lyrics and musicianship.
It was one of those moments for me (I'm into that with a vengeance!). I just thought... what would it have been like in the mid-sixties to stand outside Bobby's on 125th and listen to this awesome song?
Apparently he used to have speakers in the street.
|By Soul Sister (184.108.40.206) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 05:39 pm:|
David & SB;
Yes Bobby Robinson's record shop was something else, you brought back some memories that make me smile.
Sam isn't here no more but should either of you get the chance go see The Manhattans show where Gerald Alston does a solo of his idol's song "A Change Is Gonna Come" he will blow your mind as he always does to the audiences wherever he sings it! Guaranteed you won't be disappointed.
|By R&B (220.127.116.11) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:16 pm:|
IT WOULD BE A TREMENDOUS UNDERTAKING TO REOPEN THE SAM COOKE CASE[WITNESSES,BUSINESS ASSOCIATES ETC.]AFTER 39 YRS,AND WHAT WOULD THE RIPPLE EFFECT BE FROM SUCH AN INVESTIGATION?WOULD OTHER CASES BE REOPENED[OTIS REDDING,PAUL WILLIAMS]THERE ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT THOSE TWO LEGENDS WERE THE VICTIMS OF FOUL PLAY ALSO IN SPITE OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN LED TO BELIEVE!I DIG WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM SB,ALL I'M SAYIN IS THAT IF YOU SEE ONE BEE IN FRONT OF THE HIVE DO YOU SWAT THAT ONE OR DO YOU KNOCK DOWN THE WHOLE HIVE?
|By SisDetroit (18.104.22.168) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 07:55 pm:|
|By Soul Sister (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 09:25 pm:|
Good suggestion, the truth needs to be explored & exposed once and for all! So David's family and friends can put some closure, have their questions answered and David can finally rest in peace.
|By STUBASS (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:34 pm:|
I SEE YOUR POINT R&B!!!...TALK ABOUT "COLD CASES"...THIS ONE WOULD FREEZE A TAMALE!!!...UNFORTUNATLY...THE TRUTH (WHATEVER FACTS WOULD STILL BE AVAILABLE...IF ANY)...WOULD BE LOST IN THE MEDIA HYPE...UNFAIRLY TARNISHED REPUTATIONS...AND SEVERAL CONTRACTS FOR PLAYBOY AND PENTHOUSE PICTORIALS...JUST SO A FEW IDIOTS COULD GET THEIR 15 MINUTES OF FAME!!!...SPARE ME!!!...WHY DON'T WE JUST LET THE DEAD REST IN PEACE!!!...STUBASS
|By SB (188.8.131.52) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 09:35 am:|
My thing is - i am and will always be the small i in all things that have not what to do with me. i have no say in what the families of the slain and killed decide to do. i said early on that i wouldn't blame them if they wanted to pursue this - because i think i understand how they might want the truth to come out. But i also know and understand that it is hard to unravel a truth that happened nearly 40 years ago. Yet i also know that some deaths that occurred under questionable circumstances are solved after a long period of time.
i just heard of one such case where the crime happened twenty odd years ago and was solved. The Moxley case happened in the middle seventies and was reopened and supposedly solved after thirty years. And who am i to object to the King family desiring that MLK's murder case be reopened? How about Medgar's case? Wasn't his killers brought to justice after thirty odd years?
Again and although little 'ole i may wonder if it would be worth it - i still feel for the ones wanting to do the reopening - because in my heart i would support whatever they decided to pursue. Although - they have no idea who little 'ole i is. And they could care less what i think.
Matter-of-fact – it is almost like – yeah - i along w/everyone else has the right to an opinion – but who are we to think we have the right to comment on someone else’s business in the first place. In this is why the big I in me always strive to be fair in all of my observations.
Btw - isn't it something that the widows of Medgar - Martin and Malcolm never cared about remarrying? Perhaps they never found another man to measure up? I find that truly interesting. The three M's.
|By STUBASS (184.108.40.206) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 09:57 am:|
GOOD POINTS SB!!!...HOWEVER...AS FOR THE MOXLEY CASE...THE POLICE HAD PLENTY OF EVIDENCE...BUT IT WAS SKAKELS ALLEGED CONFESSIONS THROUGH THE YEARS THAT SEALED THE DEAL!!!...AS FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS MURDERS YOU MENTIONED!!!...THEY HAD THE EVIDENCE...JUST COULDN'T GET A FAIR AND IMPARTIAL JURY IN SOME OF THOSE CASES IN THE DEEP SOUTH...SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ULTIMATLY PROSECUTED MANY OF THOSE CASES...OR "NEW SOUTH" POLITICIANS WHO HAD PLENTY OF EXISTING EVIDENCE TO WORK WITH!!!...GOOD POINTS ALSO ABOUT THE MARITAL STATUS OF MS KING AND MS EVERS!!!...BOTH WERE THRUST INTO THE SPOTLIGHT...AND CARRYING ON THEIR LATE HUSBANDS WORK WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE DIFFICULT WITH A NEW MAN ON THE SCENE!!!...STUBASS
|By SisDetroit (220.127.116.11) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 04:59 pm:|
Stubass - Those who have gone on are, hopefully, resting in peace. It is the living that is not at peace. They want justice. They want the truth, no matter how it turns out, so they can be at peace. (I state this from experience.)
|By STUBASS (18.104.22.168) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 05:09 pm:|
APPRECIATE YOUR POINT OF VIEW SIS...AND IF THERES JUSTICE TO BE HAD...I CERTAINLY SUPPORT IT!!!...BUT IN A CASE LIKE SAM COOKE'S...TRUST ME...HIS NAME WOULD BE NEEDLESSLY DRAGGED THROUGH THE MUD...AND I'D PREFER TO REMEMBER HIM AS THE GREAT ARTIST THAT HE WAS...UNLESS...OF COURSE...THERE WAS *COMPELLING* EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY WHICH COULD BE PROVEN BEYOND A REASONABLE SHADOW OF A DOUBT...AND AFTER ALL THESE YEARS...IN THIS CASE...I DOUBT THAT THE EVIDENCE EXISTS!!!...I'D RATHER NOT TIE UP OUR PRESENT DAY LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL WITH 40 YEAR OLD CRIMES...AND FOCUS ON MORE PRESSING MATTERS OF IMMEDIATE IMPORTANCE!!!...STUBASS
|By SisDetroit (22.214.171.124) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 05:20 pm:|
My lack of peace of mind concerning a child of mine being murdered, is of immediate importance. Had the law enforcement done their jobs correctly, the crime would not have numerous questions left unanswered. I admit law enforcement are better equipped now in solving crimes, but in the case of Sam Cooke, they just didn't care, just one more """""" dead.
|By STUBASS (126.96.36.199) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 05:24 pm:|
SAD BUT TRUE SIS!!!...SO SORRY TO HEAR OF YOUR OWN TRAGIC EXPERIENCE...BUT IT'S OBVIOUS THAT YOU'VE FOUND A SEMBALENCE OF PEACE WITHIN YOURSELF...AND THAT IS WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT FOR SURVIVORS OF TRAGEDY!!!...BEST ALWAYS...STUBASS
|By SisDetroit (188.8.131.52) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 05:30 pm:|
Yes, I am peaceful within most of the time. I like to be happy. It feels good. Thank God. :o)
|By 1Wicked (184.108.40.206) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 05:55 pm:|
Sis...I know what you mean. My story involves my ONLY brother and the LAPD's involvement in his death. We know there was a cover-up, because when trying to investigate, a family member was told "The best thing for you to do is go back to Texas....'cause the SAME thing can happen to you."
|By SisDetroit (220.127.116.11) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 06:05 pm:|
OMG 1Wicked, that was horrible. I called the prosecutor concerning my son's death, to let him know the character of my son. I wanted to let him know how my son (16) went to school and how he has a mother and a father who cared where he was and who he hung with. He told me "You are not the only mother whose son has been killed." I reported that prosecutor to the judge in a long written statement. I'm not going to burden you with the unsuccessful results of the verdict after the trial due to the prosecutors lack of interest or lack of ability.
|By STUBASS (18.104.22.168) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 06:17 pm:|
YEAH GUYS!!!...I HAVE A GOOD FRIEND WHO'S 23 YEAR OLD SON WAS GUNNED DOWN BY SOME THUG WHILE WALKING HIS DOG!!!...GUY PULLS A SHOTGUN OUT OF HIS TRENCH COAT AND BLOWS THE KID AWAY...BECAUSE HIS DOG BARKED AT THE GUY AS THEY PASSED!!!...CARL IS ACTIVE IN AN ORGANIZATION CALLED "PARENTS OF MURDERED CHILDREN"...AND SAYS IT HELPS A LOT TO HAVE OTHER PARENTS IN SIMILAR SITUATIONS TO TALK TO!!!...STU
|By Coach21 (22.214.171.124) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 05:49 pm:|
I know that this is a few weeks late, but I thought that the following site would be of interest:
Specifically, the section "Review of the Pathology Report" provides some very insightful forensic details not previously discussed.
As well, I don't know about you, but I don't think that it can ever be too late to find justice, even if it is simply to award the family some closure.
Due to the lack of initial investigation, along with evidence that is forever unobtainable--some as listed in the article above (gun powder residue tests on both women, bruises on the wrists of Franklin, body placement and bullet projection, rigor-mortis, signature authentification, body and belongings search of the two ladies (where are the credit cards, DL, and near $5000 in cash), injuries to either women (there was supposed to be two struggles right, in the room and then with Franklin), etc.)--we will probably never know what happened that night. But, there can always be that search for evidence that leads to the determination that the initial statements and occurrences were not as they were initially understood, a clearer understanding of circumstances, and potentially an admonition that there was some form of foul play that occurred that night. Even this would suffice for the family, I believe.
The problem is that the intial LAPD investigation (used loosely) was simply to determine whether or not Franklin murdered Sam in malice. There was no detailed investigation as to the events involving Lisa Boyer, the prostitute, that preceeded the shooting. The events that led Sam to the point where he allegedly broke through the door of Franklin's office did not concern the police other than corroboration. Simply stated they wanted to know whether or not the evidence showed that Franklin murdered Sam with intent. With the corroboration of two others, there was no more to investigate. The activities and actions of the prostitute no longer are an issue and the case was closed. Once they determined that the shooting was in self-defense, then there was no more to investigate, and all potential evidence and plot structure is lost.
It's a shame that the investigation, or a private investigation, was not conducted in detail to provide us with all the necessary details to make a fair judgement. It just seems like so much more could have been done.
I know I'm adding on to the tail end of a conversation, and I enjoyed everyone's input. I just wanted to add my piece alltogether, since I miss out initially. I just believed that the above site, would be of interest to those here.
|By SB (126.96.36.199) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 06:09 pm:|
Ok Coach21. Now you really want to give me something to do tonight don't you? LOL! Thanks.
And to think - I turned down a date tonight. My mother flew to Alabama yesterday for a 10 day vacation - and I didn't want to leave my daughter at home alone - but then again - that is another story.
I guess -I'll have to gear up for some touching stuff - and needless to say an array of emotions reading up on the site you posted. I wondered if there was one out there like that.
Peace, Thanks, & Blessings - Coach21, for real.
|By medusa9e2003 (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 08:18 pm:|
I read your article re:Sam Cooks' death...and it Really Really makes anyone wonder, what REALLY happened....guess we'll never really know...
That was an excellant article with many unanswered questions...
|By KevGo (184.108.40.206) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:15 pm:|
What you posted is what a few people believed to be what happened to Sam Cooke. My question is why did Barbara Cooke tell Allen Klein to end the private investigation? If the family really wanted closure, I believe they would've let the investigation continue.
Kevin Goins - KevGo