|By publicimageltd. (18.104.22.168) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 10:22 pm:|
I posed this question to my brother (douglasm) a while back asking what kind of draw Iggy would have at DTE. It's the wrong place, for way too much money (my pair of row OO tickets cost 124.00)but for those of us who never got to see the glory days, this could may well be the only time we could get to see Iggy with the Ashtons. I know that this won't even be like the famous show at Masonic in 79 when Iggy exposed himself 3 times, thus ending rock and roll at Masonic.
But, it is as close to a Stooges reunion we will ever see.
And what is WCSX doing sponsering a pre-sale? The Stooges are SO FAR off their playlist that it's not even funny?
While we're at it...I know that Scott Alexander is dead, but does anyone know what ever happened to James Williamson?
|By LTLFTC (22.214.171.124) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 10:47 pm:|
I think you mean Dave Alexander.... I read an interview with James Williamson a couple years ago and he was working at some computer-related job.
|By Sue (126.96.36.199) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 11:06 pm:|
I don't know, that corporate a gig is everything that Iggy and the Stooges were against. For me the two integral parts of the band -- Iggy and Rone Asheton -- are there, so musically it might not be too bad.
I don't understand the excitement; then again I did see that infamous Masonic show. Been there, done that ...
|By Sue (188.8.131.52) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 11:07 pm:|
Rone? Oops typing while tired ...
|By publicimageltd. (184.108.40.206) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 09:48 pm:|
You're right it was Dave Alexander. Guess I was just being a dum dum boy. Thanks for the info
|By publicimageltd. (220.127.116.11) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 09:56 pm:|
I understand your "been there, done that" comment, but couldn't that be used as an arguement against going to see almost anybody that was in their prime 30 years ago? And many of these artist are still putting on great shows. I would question the money that we are paying for them now, but that's just "how things are" and as a consumer one must come to accept it.
|By Sue (18.104.22.168) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 10:34 pm:|
I mean "been there, done that" in the broadest sense. Some groups can come back together, and others don't feel right. It's an interesting debate, and I'll put this out:
Can groups that were propelled partly by teenage angst and rebellion get together in their 50s (and 60s) without looking ridiculous?
|By Chub (22.214.171.124) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 10:47 pm:|
I think it'll be a great show. I've seen Ron play recently and he still has the sound for the most part. And with Sonic Youth and Detroit's own Von Bondies, I'm sure it'll be a really fun night.
|By stephanie (126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 10:33 am:|
Iggy did the voice for a cartoon a few years ago and I loved it does anyone remember the cartoon?
Stephanie PS He sang the theme song..
|By Livonia Ken (188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 10:52 am:|
Was the cartoon "Space Goofs"?
He was also the voice of one of the newborn babies in The Rugrats Movie (along with Lou Rawls, Patti Smith, Gordon Gano of the Violent Femmes, Beck, Lenny Kravitz, Phife from A Tribe Called Quest, Jakob Dylan, Fred Schneider, Kate Pierson, and Cindy Wilson of the B-52s, and a number of other music celebrities).
His first foray as a voice in animation was the 1983 movie "Rock and Rule", which also featured the voices of Lou Reed and Debbie Harry.
|By douglasm (184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:52 am:|
....to advance your question. Can the people driven by teenage angst who went to the shows get together in their 50's and 60's without looking rediculous? Gord doesn't quite qualify. He's 44.
He and I had a similar discussion recently about venues. Let's say Iggy draws 8,000 to a nice outdoor ampatheatre. Would you get anything close to the feeling of 800 packed into a hot, sweaty Birmingham Palladium, or 2500 in Masonic Auditorium? The larger the venue, the less relationship the act has with the audience, and at least to me, the show runs the risk of becoming sterile.
|By Sue (220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:57 am:|
Oh yeah, the venue, and especially the antiseptic, corporate sort of venue it is, bothers me the most about that gig I think. Iggy and the boys would work as an outdoor act at a festival like Grass Lake (laugh) ...or was it Goose Lake?
|By douglasm (18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:07 pm:|
...Indian Lake? If you're thinking about the festival outside of Jackson, it was Goose Lake, wasn't it?
I don't remember the jock's name, but someone from The Big 8 called WIBM (Jackson) for an acuality about the event. When the jock asked about payment, the shocked response was something like "Payment??!!!! Your payment is that you get to say 'Micky Sikes, CKLW 20/20 News'". They got their report.
|By mhc (22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:56 pm:|
I'd go to that show if I had the chance. I think The Stooges' music has stood the test of time because it was as much about groove and energy as anything else, and groove and energy are timeless. I heard Ron Asheton play on a compilation CD a few years ago called "Beyond Cyberpunk", and to me he actually sounds even wilder now than back then; his thing has evolved. DTE Center is the current name for what used to be Pine Knob, right? I used to like going to that venue for shows, and thought that the sound and the atmosphere were pretty decent. Also, the one and only time that I did see and hear The Stooges was at the State Fairgrounds in 1969, as part of the "Rock and Roll Revival" festival, in front of a crowd of at least 20,000. They definitely came across in that context. Anyway, it sounds like a winner to me; I'm glad they're back and I hope that their tour is a big success.
|By Sue (126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:16 pm:|
Because Iggy and Ron Asheton are involved, I think you have the main components of the Stooges' sound, so that's in their favor (as opposed to say getting the MC5 back together with stand-ins for Rob Tyner and Fred "Sonic" Smith).
I was downstairs in the State Theater a few years back, and heard Asheton playing the opening riff to "I Wanna Be Your Dog" through the boards -- it cut right through and sounded great. So the music isn't my problem ...
Since the Palace took over Pine Knob/DTE it's run in a very slick, clean way -- great if you're taking kids but it's not like an old-fashioned outdoor concert, it's controlled and well-behaved, everything a Stooges show wasn't.
|By SteveS (188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:32 pm:|
Is my memory totally shot or was Sun Ra and something called the New York Rock and Roll Ensemble also at that State Fair concert?
|By Sue (184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:44 pm:|
Aren't you talking about that Donald Fagen/Phoebe Snow/Michael McDonald thing? That was long after the Stooges played the State Fair I believe, it was in the late 80s/early 90s.
|By SteveS (220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:49 pm:|
No, this was something different. Psuedo-classical rock, guys dressed up in tuxes, basically pretty crappy. I'm quite sure they existed, it's just hard to believe that I saw them, Iggy and Sun Ra (among others) at the same concert.
|By douglasm (18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:50 pm:|
New York Rock and Roll Ensemble. Now there's a definition of "Classic(al) Rock" if I ever heard of one. R&R's answer to Chamber Blues.
|By Sue (22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:50 pm:|
Were they walking in unison back and forth while strumming their guitars?
|By mc5rules (126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:52 pm:|
Well, as someone who had the good fortune of seeing the first Stooges reunion gig in California in April (from the photo pit, no less!), I can say that those guys played with all the frerocity and heart that a person could expect. I'll be there for the Pine Knob show, too -- I can't wait!
I was talking to ol' Rone throughout the process -- from the moment Iggy asked them to play on his record through the Coachella gig -- and I know that the thing evolved organically. It really seemed like those guys connected on a personal level. Ron hadn't even seen Iggy in 20 years before they went into the studio. Things were weird at first, but eventually it was like old times, he said.
BTW, I was watching the show with a close friend/colleague who was at the Michigan Palace show (not Masonic Temple), and he said the performances compared favorably...
|By Sue (188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:04 pm:|
The last time I interviewed Iggy for the News, he was at the restaurant in the Royal Oak Theater building along with Ron and several other old pals from Stooges days. This would be after '88 but could be early '90s ...
I remember it well because Ron was angry about several things Iggy said that I put in the paper, one being that coming back to Detroit was depressing because "everybody lives in the same place" and worse (I don't want to stir up that hornet's nest again). So it's been well less than 20 years since those guys saw each other.
|By mc5rules (184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:10 pm:|
This is what Ron said to me:
"The first meeting was a little awkward," Ron said. "We were at the hotel and he came to meet us and it was a little strange. I felt a little nervous because I hadnÕt really seen him for 20 years. My brother had seen him, but I hadnÕt."
So maybe his memory ain't so great...or maybe he meant that he hadn't spent a lot of time with him.
|By mc5rules (220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:12 pm:|
By the way, I believe the event mhc is talking about was May 30-31, 1969.
In addition to the Stooges (still called the Psychedelic Stooges a the time), it featured an amazing bill of the MC5, Chuck Berry, Sun Ra, Dr. John, Johnny Winter, Amboy Dukes, SRC, Frost, The Rationals, Teagarden and Van Winkle, Lyman Woodard, the Up, 3rd Power, NY Rock and Roll Ensemble, David Peel, Red White and Blues, Sky Train, Savage Grace, James Gang, etc...
That's the show that Fred Smith unveiled his "Super Sonic" superhero costume -- it was this crazy silver superhero outfit. John Sinclair didn't like it, and it contributed to the growing rift between the two forces. Sinclair was fired a couple of weeks later, and a few weeks after that, he went to prison. In many ways, it was the beginning of the end of a golden era...
|By mhc (18.104.22.168) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:18 pm:|
Hi SteveS, if Sun Ra was part of that event, he didn't play on the day/night that I was there. But I did see the New York Rock and Roll Ensemble; they didn't move me much. They were led by Michael Kamen, who's done a lot of film scores over the years. That was such a memorable day. I wrote an article about it once for a short-lived magazine called "LIVE". Speaking of faulty memory, the MC5 played late that day and they were incredibly on fire, debuting a bunch of stuff from "Back In the USA". It was the last and best time that I saw them. But in the film "A True Tesimonial" they show Fred Smith playing at the R&R Revival dressed in a silver Superhero outfit, and I don't remember him being dressed that way. But again, it was a 2 day event and I was only there on the Friday..
|By mc5rules (22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:20 pm:|
how funny -- we must have been posting at around the same time! the MC5 movie is where I got some of that information. They really play it up as a watershed moment in the band's history, don't they?
|By SteveS (126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:32 pm:|
Thanks MC5rules, your post jarred my memory. Yeah Sun Ra did play - they closed the show on one of the nights.
MHC - Yeah, it was definitely a memorable day. One image that sticks in my mind - Jim Osterberg driving into the backstage area in the family cadillac with his Mom and Dad, kissing his Mom goodbye, and then emerging as Iggy.
|By mhc (188.8.131.52) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 07:43 pm:|
The Osterberg family lived in a trailer park and drove a Cadillac?!?! How cool is that? I also remember, from that day, a surprise set in the afternoon by The Bonzo Dog Doodah Band, and the world premiere of Grand Funk Railroad, during which the PA blew up.
|By SteveS (184.108.40.206) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:05 pm:|
Thanks for reminding me. The Bonzo Dog was the best thing I've ever seen anywhere. I also saw them at the Grande on a Tuesday night or something. There was no advance publicity, and maybe 75 people there. The singer (Vivian Stanshall) came out and did the first few tunes with a bunch of ROBOTS (keep in mind this was 1968 or so). They did something else where they release a 10 foot long condom into the audience. One of them (Neil Innes) went on to join Monty Python.
|By publicimageltd. (220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 09:42 pm:|
About the teenage angst thing, you seem to have forgotten that I grew up during the punk era and embrased it very fully. So, to a point I would qualify in your discussion (see below). Because of your influence, I knew full well who many of these artists were (I bought Raw Power as a new release and if you remember correctly, while you were living in Ypsi, you were borrowing MY records on a regular basis) and followed them very closely. The punk movement helped to revitalise many of them and place them more so in the historical context for those of us who were not there the first time around.
As for the "getting together" arguement, I think it has a lot to do with the band. I get the impression that Iggy and the Ashtons are for musical and artistic reasons and that is partly obvious in Ron's refusal to do anything off of Raw Power (we'll save the Bowie arguement for later).
I think a great example to look at was the Sex Pistol's Filthy Lucre Tour in 1997, in which they made it clear it was all about money. They were still great musically and really didn't care if they were a joke or not since money was the intention. I find it funny that Joey Ramone was very critical of the Pistols reunion, but at that time Ramones were on their 3rd "farewell" tour, because for the first time in their lives they were making money! Would this also explain why Brian Eno called the Roxy Music reunion of 2 years ago "artistically bankrupt"?
Here's an intresting bit for Iggy's family background. His father was an English teacher at Fordson High School, in Dearborn and was known as "Mr. Pop." He retired sometime in the late 70's.
|By RAMALAMA (18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:37 pm:|
Hey kids, nice to see the talk turn to something passionate like our Stooges. I'll be there at the Knob (you can take the boy outta Detroit, but you can't change the name of the place. Yeah, it's a bit like Nazi Germany now, but we'll take it over anyway).
Was that you I saw in the pit in the desert? mc5rules? Cool. I saw the last show (Michigan Palace) yeah, as well as some westside roadhouse the week before that blood was truly drawn, that's why all the bikers showed up with the bottles at the Palace. Fuck 8 Mile, these guys never went North of 8 Mile back then. It was about antagonizing each other, band and audience, something Jim Morrison had always wanted to achieve, but never did (oh boy, opening up another can 'o worms here).
The Stooges showed up at Coachella and tore the hearts out of those sunbaked half-wits! "I wanna fuck something up!" Indeed! They came! They saw! They Conquered! Like a fine tuned killing machine. Can we talk about Funhouse?! You are a pussy if you miss this show (which seems to be the only American show planned this year). Let me in, let me in!
Last note, it's got to be the brothers, Ron gets the job done, hail hail, but Scott is the soul there. Lock into him and you'll know. The Who were never the Who again without Moon, no Zep without Bonzo and there are no Stooges without him, why do you think they call the man Rock Action?
|By publicimageltd. (22.214.171.124) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 10:39 pm:|
And speak of the Devil...
I know this is a bit off the subject, but I see that John Lydon is in need of money again (real estate market must be soft in LA), so The Sex Pistols are hitting the road again and will be at Cobo(!!!) on August 28. The Stooges and the Sex Pistols all in a two week period. What more could an old punk-rock-head ask for!!
|By douglasm (126.96.36.199) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 08:14 am:|
Just don't double bill them with NRBQ. Punch did that once (Stooges/NRBQ) at the Palladium back in '71 or '72. Gawd, what a mess. Worst job of booking i'd ever seen Andrews do.
....you be around Friday night? We'll discuss this at length.....
|By mc5rules (188.8.131.52) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:43 am:|
Oh yeah, that was me. Thanks for bringing up Rock Action -- I wondered why nobody was mentioning him. If ever a drummer lived up to his nickname, it was Scotty at Coachella. I try to keep my wife away from him because he has this powerful animal magnetism about him.
Also, the new Stooges feature the legendary Mike Watt on bass. He's a punk rock hero. That man has integrity like you wouldn't believe, plus he sure can play that thud staff!
|By RAMALAMA (184.108.40.206) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 08:36 pm:|
Funny that you mentioned Watt, spent some time with him today on the beach at San Pedro. He tells me that Jones Beach Long Island is now on for the Stooges in August as well. Maybe they can get the boat back that Cab Calloway used and sport some pirate gear. Tell Buffy & Dax that the Stooges will raid the Hamptons!
|By Earnstone (220.127.116.11) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:36 pm:|
NRBQ w/ the Stooges? Not a particulary agreeable co-billing. The former, in fact, have always been critics darlings for some unknown reason. Allegedly they put on a great show w/ eclecticism beyond the pale. Haven't seen it when I've seen them. Once drove up from San Diego to see 'em at a club in San Juan Capistrano. Dreadful. Horrible. But tell me, what were the most ill-matched co-bills or warm-up acts you've ever seen? Mine might be a Denver show w/ the newbie Eagles opening for a billing w/ Edgar Winters White Trash followed by Yes. Tut hut!!
|By Sue (18.104.22.168) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:39 pm:|
I told an out of town friend who works in radio and went to AA Pioneer High a few years behind Jim O. that Iggy and the Stooges were playing "Pine Knob" ...there was dead silence at the end of the phone, then he screamed. "Iggy does NOT play places like Pine Knob."
Only the new millenium Iggy does.
|By douglasm (22.214.171.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:45 pm:|
....I'm talking to Gordon in about a half an hour. May I quote you?
|By Sue (126.96.36.199) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:52 pm:|
Well I assume Doug never saw Iggy, right, or Iggy and the Stooges together, I should say?
That would be my excuse, if I were he ...nothing wrong with that if it's the only way you can see them, I guess. But younger fans need to understand that Iggy and the Stooges, in their heyday, would NEVER have played a gig like that. And that you have to maybe count points off on the authenticity meter if they're doing that.
A big barn like Cobo or Joe, downtown, on a bill with a slew of other bands, sure. The half-wrecked Michigan Theater, absolutely. But a sleek, well-kept shed in the exurbs? No way. A roadhouse full of angry bikers -- yes.
|By Sue (188.8.131.52) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:52 pm:|
Oops Doug, I mean I assume Gordon never saw them?
|By douglasm (184.108.40.206) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:14 pm:|
....he thought your post was VERY funny. Gord has seen Iggy, but never the original band in their--as he says--glory days, and is looking forward to seeing the Ashton brothers in, as he again says, the wrong place for too much money.
|By Sue (220.127.116.11) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:16 pm:|
That's exactly it -- the wrong place for too much money.
And who's going to play the part of the Angry Bikers who throw beer bottles at Iggy -- they'll have to have rocket launchers on them to make it to the stage! And when Iggy exposes himself, who'll see it except the first few rows!
|By publicimageltd. (18.104.22.168) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:22 pm:|
And all the while aware that it will still be nothing compared to the show at Masonic in 79 where he exposed himself three times.
I don't think I mentioned this before, but I have seen the Ashtons seperatly (sp) on a regular basis when Ron was in Destroy All Monsters and Scott was the drummer in Sonic Smith's band. This will be the first time I will have them together
That is an intresting point about Iggy maybe playing downtown. Your theory on that would obviously (sp) explain why The Sex Pistols are playing Cobo when they are here again in August.
|By douglasm (22.214.171.124) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:29 pm:|
Bottles of Boy Howdy?
|By radiogoon (126.96.36.199) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 02:26 am:|
Anybody remember the line up of The Red, White and Blues Band? Worked with a guy who claimed to play bass for them for awhile. George Annibal. Ring any bells?
|By mc5rules (188.8.131.52) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 10:18 am:|
I think the Boy Howdy! will be served in cans, douglasm.
|By publicimageltd. (184.108.40.206) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 11:47 pm:|
Does anybody know anything about a movie that Paul Zimmerman (from Fun and Orbit magazine) is doing on the Detroit rock scene that centered around Bookies in the late 70's early 80's? A friend, who was close to Zimmerman at that time, told me that using a film he (PZ) did at the time called Face the 80s, a documentary is being made of the Detroit Punk scene in which The Stooges and Patti Smith have agreed to be interviewed for.
Any info would be greatly appriecated
|By R&B (220.127.116.11) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 02:02 pm:|
IGGY IS OK I GUESS,BUT THE STOOGES WERE ALOT FUNNIER WITH CURLY,LARRY,AND MOE!
|By douglasm (18.104.22.168) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:08 am:|
....that was a real nice article in todays News concerning the Magic Bag show. It's nice to see history relived, especially in the case of SRC and Savage Grace. Has any thought been given to recording the concert?
|By Sue (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:37 am:|
I'll have to ask the "Knights of the Grande" (laugh) -- I'm pretty sure they will. They plan actually to do more shows like this, he doesn't even want to wait a year, but do one in the winter. This one was to get them started. He originally wanted it to be on Dream Cruise weekend. Because the tix aren't being sold through Ticketmaster I batted the story out quickly so people would know about the show ...
|By douglasm (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:51 am:|
"Knights of the Grande"? Add in the "Knights of the.....Something Different, RO Kimball Ice Rink, Farmers Market, Chalet, Birmingham Palladium....". Well, maybe not. Name wouldn't fit on a marque. Hope the show works.
I asked Gordon, but you're probably in a better position to answer. With the Iggy show, and the MC5 appreciation concerts, is there a re-appreciation of the late '60's early '70's Detroit rock scene beginning to build? My memory says Detroit in the late '60's was a lot like Seattle in the early '90's.
|By Sue (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:32 pm:|
I think so, Doug, that's why I asked Wayne Kramer and Gary Quackenbush about it.
Wayne sees a direct connection between today's Detroit icons like Eminem, and the 5, and therefore -- why not bask in some of the glory?
Those guys didn't have the benefit of really top-notch lawyers, agents and managers as Eminem does, so in a way this is revisiting a bunch of bands who "woulda, shoulda" made it.
I mean, just mention Scotty Morgan and the Rationals -- why weren't they national stars? Although Quackenbush reminded me that "Respect" WAS a national hit, not just here in Detroit. They weren't able to follow it up and take advantage of the momentum. The other guys were all signed to national contracts, but then not promoted ...
|By Joe Moorehouse (184.108.40.206) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 07:48 pm:|
The Rationals' version of Respect peaked at number 92 on the Billboard charts, courtesy of its monster status in a select few markets--but it was completely unknown in 90% of the country. Love's Gone Bad by the Underdogs got to number 127, Seger's East Side Story met a simlar fate, Story of My Life by the Unrelated Segments didn't even do that well nationally... I wish I had an explanation for why so many of Michigan's most brilliant contributions to rock and roll in the mid-60s didn't get the attention they deserved.
But it was an era when regional hits were much more common than they have been since, primarily due to a very healthy indie-label scene and the willingness of radio stations to play local bands on local labels (in our market, WXYZ and WKNR were great about this in the mid-60s, CKLW was not).
In any case, I do think the Rationals produced more quality records than any other local outfit in the '60s, and they should have been stars. But even locally, only two of their songs were substantial hits (with several of their best singles on A-Square and Cameo ignored even in Detroit), and it's not clear how hard the major labels that picked up those song--Capitol and Cameo--promoted them in other markets.
|By Earnstone (220.127.116.11) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 10:58 pm:|
Not much noise here lately but it oughta pick up with the Stooges show next week, nicht? I cruised through the site and enjoyed some of the commentary about whether a Stooges show carries any relevance in the year Twenty-o-three. Gimme a break. Our collective musical heroes played right up to death's door, from the blues greats (saw John Lee Hooker in SF about three weeks before he died) to the jazz greats (too many to mention but Sun Ra comes to mind) to even more standard fare like Sinatra (maybe not the last year but well into his 70s). Real musicians cum entertainers make an even stronger statement than the adage about old soldiers. Hell, folks like the Stooges don't fade away. It appears that they still give it their all. I don't know about you locals but I'm coming home from the East Coast to see the Stooges. I saw them back in the day (Palace, Sherwood Forest, Mt. Holly, Goose Lake). This'll be great--or not. But it'll beat most Thursday August nights!