By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.47) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 03:19 pm:| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.47) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 03:19 pm: |
Ask any Lay person a question relating about Detroit and they will almost certainly come back with 'Motown' and its links with the Motor industry.
But as we all know on here,it means a lot more to do with the above,although I am in no way showing any dis-respect to the above mentions.
But apart from the Motown and other independent Labels etc,how many are aware of Detroits connection to the Blues?
Yet it does have its place in the annal's of the blues.And in the 1940's and 50s the one blues artist that was active in Detroit was John Lee Hooker,who was to make a national and international reputation over the years to come.
The story of Detroit Blues is really the story of the so-called minor blues singers.Who recorded 1 or 2 of there best songs in the back room of a record shop on Hastings Street or Woodward Avenue for a few bucks.
I dont want to talk to long about this,as I have some in-depth material,and would go on for ever.So I am going to name a few artists that were around Detroit and into the Blues at this time and if anyone can add anything then all the better.
A few were not born in Detroit but made there way there.
John Lee Hooker
was born in Coahama County,Mississippi in 1917.1 of 11 children.His father died in 1923 and hismother Minnie Ramsey remarried a blues guitarist and singer from Louisiana,who like so many,made his living toiling in the cottonfields.Anyway he taught John everything.
In 1943 and just married Hooker moved to Detroit,Michigan.He played in the clubs on Hastings street,The Monte Carlo Club and the Harlem Inn.
Other prominent figures were Eddie Burns,who accompanied Hooker at times.He was a Harp player,guitarist and a good singer.
Eddie Kirkland,who was actually born in Kingston,Jamaica.But ended up in Detroit.
Singer and guitarist Bobo Jenkins.Who played fine downhome blues led by a wailing harp that hung on for a while in Detroit at a time when Chicago was moving towards a slicker guitar based approach.
Baby Boy Warren,recorded in Detroit from 1949 and 1954 and had with him Sonny Boy Williamson onHarp and guitarists Little George Jackson and Calvin Frazier.And another collaborator was pianist Boogie Woogie Red(aka Vernon Harrison)who spent 50 years on the Detroit scene.
Others were Detroit Count,Henry Smith,Little Sonny and many others.But somehow Detroit never managed to challenge Chicago as a major blues centre.
The reason as being the absence of a successful and strongly managed company such as Chess or Vee Jay.
There was great talent in Detroit which was to be discovered and developed.
Which Berry Gordy was to prove in later years when he founded Motown and laid the foundations to soul music-which would draw much of its spirit and sound from the blues.
The record companies at the time were small concerns such as jvb,staff,sensation and fortune records.
Fortune recorded Hooker,Bobo Jenkins,Dr.Ross and the last work of Big Maceo,who were substanial but not dedicated to the blues.
So as you can see,Detroit has roots in every type of music and never ceases to amaze me when ever I look in depth to various forms of music,that it should be mentioned in some context.
Detroit,
Thank you for your music(andthensome).
MEL.
all in-put appreciated and apologies for any errors.All facts from various Blues magazines etc.
| By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 03:24 pm: |
Mel,
Thanks for the history lesson. Very interesting. Detroit R&B is definitely more than the sum of all it's parts and we were fortunate to stand on the shoulders of giants.
| By Jim G (12.47.224.13) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 03:39 pm: |
Hey, Mel
It's true some blues were recorded at Joe (Von) Battle's record shop, perhaps including Hooker's demo discs, although I've heard different stories about their origin. It is possible some of the material Hooker used as Demo's was issued on labels other than Sensation.
Perhaps more Hooker interviews will come to light and maybe answer that question.
But Hooker's 'first' issued recordings were made at United Sound Studios for Bernie Besman/John Kaplan of Sensation Records. They were leased to Sensation to Modern Records in LA.
Detroit Count, a/k/a Robert White, did record at Joe's record shop a wonderful two part "Hastings Street Opera" as well as some good boogie pieces.
The lack of a nationally distributed record label was indeed a problem. "No recording, no recognition" was how one older Detroit musician summed up the Detroit situation to me. I've been unable to locate any locally recorded Detroit bands from the mid-twenties through the mid-forties, when the independent record derby was in full swing.
Motown certainly changed that, at least for some music.
| By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 04:46 pm: |
After Sensation Records folded in the early '50s, Fortune (founded in 1946) became the biggest thing in town in terms of an independent record label. It was, if you will, a Detroit version of Chess or Vee Jay, although admittedly on a smaller scale. A lot of Fortune's blues was recorded before the rise of rock 'n' roll, although Hooker came to record a moonlighting session there in 1960 and a few other blues artists, like Dr. Ross, made records into the '60s.
Fortune struggled to expand distribution for years, but a number of factors -- including the business practices of Jack and Devora Brown, the owners -- hindered the label. Fortune became a strong regional label but really only achieved national distribution on two records: "Bacon Fat" by Andre Williams and his New Group in early 1957, which was leased to Columbia's Epic imprint; and "Village Of Love" by Nathaniel Mayer and the Fabulous Twilights, leased to United Artists in the spring of 1962. Fortune felt that it had been shorted on sales revenue by both Epic and UA in these deals, and so it backed off from doing another similar distribution deal after "Village." Ironically, Fortune's next offering after "Village" was "Mind Over Matter" by Nolan Strong (with the uncredited Diablos backing); "Mind Over Matter" could have been a big national hit if Fortune had secured distribution like it did with "Village." As it was, "Mind" still cracked the national Cash Box pop charts at #82 in late '62. By that time, Motown was up and running (with distribution) and Fortune, with its primitive studio and production values (never upgraded), was left behind in the dust. Fortune is the "shoulda-woulda-coulda-been-a-contender" Detroit label.
| By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 04:52 pm: |
Thanks Fury. You have made me realize how little I knew about this great Detroit label. Very interesting stuff.
| By MEL&THEN SOME9 (195.219.7.4) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 05:52 pm: |
Hey guys,
thanks for the in-put.
Regards Hooker and Joe Van Battle it states in a piece that I have that Hooker was also frequently booked by Battle or other producers for one-off recording sessions,which would then be swiftly sold,sometimes locally,more often than to Labels like King inCincinatti,Savoy in New York or Chance in Chicago.
These were sometimes contractually vague.So while ModernRecords,with 'Boogie Chillun'and its successors,were building the name of John Lee Hooker,smaller concerns usually had to sell them in disguise,with invented names.
And these are supposedly some of the names that Hooker used on the various labels.
Texas Slim-'Late last night'.
Delta John-'Goin' Mad Blues'.
Birmingham Sam and his Magic Guitar-'Low Down Midnight Boogie'.
Johnny Williams-'Miss Rossie Mae'.
The Boogie Man-'Do The Boogie'.
Little Pork Chops-'Grievin'Blues'.
Mel.
| By john dixon (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 07:11 pm: |
favorite line from John Lee's "The Motor City Is Burnin'":
my hometown is burnin down to the ground,
worser than Vietnam.
Puts a smile on my face everytime....
| By Sue (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 08:30 pm: |
One of the times I interviewed John Lee in the '90s, he told me that, unlike most artists of the time, he had his contracts. I asked how that was so; he claimed he went "with a gun and a lawyer" to get them from one of the Detroit guys, not sure if it was Besman.
| By CM Wolff (68.60.188.16) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 08:30 pm: |
A few great recent recordings from some of the Detroit legends, including Eddie Kirkland, Detroit Piano Fats, Eddie Burns, Harmonica Shah, Willie Warren and others, can be found on "Hastings Street Grease" volumes one and two on Blue Suit Records, released in 1998 and 1999. Liners by John Sinclair. Definitely give these guys their due. Great stuff.
| By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 10:55 am: |
Nice thread.....
....OK, so where did they play, and what caused the demise of the scene--the collapse of Fortune?
Granted, when I started wandering around in ernest ('66/'68) I was underage, but by that time the only blues "club" I can think of was the college oriented coffeehouse The Chessmate at 6 and Livernois. What did I miss?
| By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:03 am: |
ANOTHER GOOD ONE MEL,THERE IS A BOOK CALLED{BEFORE MOTOWN}THAT TALKS ABOUT THE BLUES SCENE IN DETROIT,I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AVAILABLE IN THE U.K.YET.
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:06 am: |
HEY ALL: NICE THREAD MEL!!!...IT SEEMS TO ME THAT DETROIT BLUES WAS LOST IN THE EFFORT BY BERRY GORDY AND OTHERS TO SOPHISTICATE AND CROSSOVER THE MUSIC COMING OUT OF DETROITS INNER CITY!!!...AN EXAMPLE SIMILAR TO MANY EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS EFFORTS TO OVERCOME THEIR VERBAL ACCENTS AND DIALECTS FOR THE SAKE OF BLENDING IN WITH THE POPULATION AT LARGE!!!...I BELIEVE THAT MANY AFRICAN AMERICAN EMIGREES FROM THE SOUTH SOUGHT TO SHED SOME OF THEIR SOUTHERN TRADITIONS AND CULTURE IN AN EFFORT TO URBANIZE THEIR INDIVIDUAL LIFESTYLE...AND PEOPLE LIKE BERRY GORDY WERE ABLE TO EXPLOIT THAT DESIRE BY PRODUCING CULTURALLY SIGNIFICANT GENRES THAT BLENDED THE PAST CULTURES WITH ESTABLISHED NORTHERN SOCIAL PATTERNS!!!...THIS IS JUST MY OPINION AND OBSERVATION...AND I DON'T CLAIM TO SPEAK FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN MYSELF!!!...BY THE WAY...THE "BLIND PIG" IN ANN ARBOR FEATURED MANY FINE BLUES ACTS DURING THE 60'S AND 70'S!!!...STU
| By Jim G (12.47.224.13) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:27 am: |
R&B,
Thanks for mentioning our book (B Motown) it is indeed available in UK, also through Amazon.com.
Jim Gallert
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.46) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:33 am: |
Cheers R&B,
I dont know the book you refer to,but will now look out for it.
Mel.
| By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:36 am: |
Stu...
....The Blind Pig? Don't remember it (as if I remember much from that era--short of being teargassed in the EMU Student Chapel Center during the Kent State meelee). Where was it?
| By Dick Gamble (216.93.58.209) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:43 am: |
I would have to say the one single event started the decline of Detroit Blues had to be the Chrysler Freeway system. In the early 60's the freeway system destroyed Hastings Street in the heart of the Paradise Valley area. Hastings was where all the Blues Clubs were located that drew the great Detroit musicians. This is the price Detroit paid for progress.
That's my opinion...
| By Jim G (12.47.224.13) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:44 am: |
The full title is
"Before Motown: A History Of Jazz In Detroit, 1920 - 1960 by Lars Bjorn with Jim Gallert (University of Michigan Press: 2001).
We discuss some Detroit blues history (the 'classic' blues singers of the 1920 and Hooker and his contemporaries) and also Jump blues, early Detroit record labels, the Flame Show Bar, and the roots of Motown.
| By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:45 am: |
Mel & Fury:
Thanks again for the information. Always great to learn something new out here.
Question for you and Jim Gallert as well - I know that King Records was a Cincinatti concern but didn't they have an office in Detroit at one time that was used for sales as well as A&R? I'm curious because Roquel Billy Davis told me he did some early work for King (early 1950s) and the legendary Hank Ballard had the Midnighters (formerly the Royals) in Detroit & were signed to King.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.22) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:59 am: |
Hey Stu,
your quite right mate,
the Detroit Blues scene always remained haphazard
and hand to mouth,and what you have more or less said is said in various mags etc.(ie)
'But there were more deep seated reasons for that.
Whereas Chicago's blues community was drawn mainly from Memphis on Down-Mississippi,Eastern Arkansas,West Tennessee-
Detroits musicians drifted in from everywhere.
Speaking so many musical dialects,they found it difficult to converse in a common language of ensemble playing.'
And a very interesting point is made when stated that much of the character of the Muddy Waters style Chicago blues band derives from the backbeat drumming of Freddie Below and his followers.
Detroit (it is said)
seems to have had virtually no blues drummers-and hardly any full scale blues bands at all,just a scattering of soloists and impromptu small groups,with highly individual approaches.
As a scene
it was fascinating
but Doomed!
Jim G
I shall now definatley look for the book as I see you are involved in it.
MEL.
| By Jim G (12.47.224.13) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 12:15 pm: |
Dick,
In fact PV started to decline in the 1940s. There was a shift in black population northwards, reflected in the many new clubs on John R ('The street of music', as it was called in the black press at the time). The Flame Show Bar, which opened in June, 1949, became the centerpiece of black entertainment in Detroit. EVERYBODY played the Flame.
And not all of the blues clubs were on Hastings, and not all blues guys played in the blues clubs.
Some, i.e., Johnnie Bassett, worked in 'Jump' bands like Joe Weaver's Blue Note orch. Johnnie also worked with Hooker a couple of times during the early 1950s.
Detroit Count, primarily a solo pianist, worked at clubs around town.
The plan for 'urban renewal' (read: Negro removal) took shape in the early 1940s. But you are correct, the onslaught of I-375 ravaged the last of PV.
I'll try and get a couple of blues research guys to post, they are far more knowledgeable than me.
| By Jim G (12.47.224.13) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 12:20 pm: |
Mel,
That is interesting information--may I ask specifics on the source?
I think that there was a good market for 'down home' blues in Detroit, but it was not as strong as the market for Jump blues; Bernie Besman told me he couldn't get Hooker's recs played on the radio here, (one reason why he licensed them), but Todd Rhodes' band could garner airplay. Of course airplay was critical.
I hope you learn something from our book--I'll be interested in your comments.
| By Dick Gamble (216.93.11.88) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 12:29 pm: |
Jim G, Thanks for the input on this subject. This is a great thread and I've learned a wealth of information from it..
Great amount of information from all that have posted...
Dick
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.15) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 01:15 pm: |
Jim G,
The various pieces are taken from out of a collection of over 100 magazines that I have called The Blues Collection.
Which was a magazine that came out weekly,and each issue contains an in-depth look at one artist's effect on the developement of the blues.
Their influences,and a detailed listing of their most important recordings.
As background,there is a section on the story of the blues,beginning with its roots in black folk tradition,through urbanisation and amplification,to the point where todays blues singers have become internationally feted celebrities.
There is also a track-by-track analysis of the featured cassette/CD which lists the backing artists and discusses what gives the music its own unique quality.
Each cassette/CD has been digitally remastered to convey the music exactly as it was recorded-from a rough and ready back room in 1940's Chicago to a modern recording studio complete with 1990's technology.
The Consultant editor is a guy named Tony Russell who has written and broadcast on the blues for over 20 years.
In 1989,he jointly organised and compered the South Bank Blues Festival.
He also wrote a book in 1971 called
'Blacks,Whites&Blues'.
And has contributed to other earlier material that I have such as 'Blues Unlimited','Blues World''Juke Blues' 'Jazz' 'Jazz Express'amongst others.
And he is highly regarded as one of the definitive studies of the blues.
All in all Jim,
a top class collection it all is.
I hope this answers your question sir.
Regards
Mel.
| By dave (207.241.133.153) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 01:59 pm: |
Love this thread, but it makes it sound like the Blues is long gone. Love the current blues scene in Detroit. Check out the Detroit Blues Society home page:
http://www.flash.net/~dbsblues/
Lots going on...Lots of talent...ranging from Alberta Adams to the present.
| By Fury13 (209.69.165.10) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 02:15 pm: |
What some people don't realize is that when the Chrysler freeway was installed, beginning about 1958 and ending about 1962, Hastings Street wasn't completely decimated right away. Actually, most of the buildings on the west side of Hastings (now the southbound Chrysler service drive) were left standing. But since the street had ceased to be a viable business strip (because of the construction and the removal of the east side of the street), the buildings on the west side came down over a period of time due to disuse and decay. From what I've been able to ascertain, by the early '70s, virtually none of the old storefronts from Hastings remained.
| By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 03:46 pm: |
The Blind Pig was in Ann Arbor Michigan.On ashly or first,just to the south of liberty. In the 70s I spent many a night listening to Boogie Woogie Red on the piano,and talking with him about life in general on his breaks. Unfortunatly,I can,t remember to much of the conversations as Red was a heavy drinker and didn't have to many teeth,so it was hard to understand him,plus I just HATED to see him drink by himself!! He always seemed to not have a ride back to Detroit and would ask if anyone could give him a ride back home.
Lynn
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.111) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 04:20 pm: |
Kev,
I think your question would be better answered by somebody above,as I (Off the top of my head)remember King and the Cincinatti office as you say,with Syd Nathan.
And the Detroit connection I remember was when Henry Glover appeared on the scene.
I know he attended Wayne University in Detroit but was from Arkansas.
And all I recall is that Glover wrote for Detroit artists as well as arrange,and produce.He was involved personally with Lucky Millender,Bull Moose Jackson,The Detroit Band of Todd Rhodes,He had writers credits on Bill Doggetts 'Honky Tonk',healso worked with Detroits Hank Ballard.As well as others.
But all the work I can remember regards King and Detroit material was done from the Cincinatti office.
Anyway Kev,
I am sure somebody with a lot more knowledge etc than myself will let you and I know one way or the other.
Cheers
MEL.
| By Fury13 (209.69.165.10) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 04:52 pm: |
A lot of Detroit artists ended up recording for King/DeLuxe/Federal out of Cincinnati. King was close by, relatively speaking, and had national distribution. It was obviously considered a bigger player than, say, Fortune. A lot of JVB material was funneled to King; Joe Weaver's first recordings came out on DeLuxe. Todd Rhodes' Sensation material came out on King for national distribution. The Midnighters, Little Willie John, and Kenny Martin all had contracts with King. Harry Balk handled many of the Detroit artists in those days and, I'm conjecturing, probably had a working relationship with Syd Nathan.
| By Frankm (81.152.61.58) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 06:07 pm: |
I saw a photograph of John Lee Hooker in a blues book. he was saeted it his guitar and his foot on some sort of Rhythm board. behind him on the plate glasss window of the stre front there is a logo (in mirror image) which proclaims thiis is the place where Reverend CL Franklin records his albums. I preume this was taken in Detroit.
Frankm
| By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 06:10 pm: |
Mel & Fury13:
Thanks for the 411 on King's presence in Detroit. This is great info and I will do more research into it as well.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
| By Fury13 (209.69.165.10) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 06:11 pm: |
Frankm, that picture would have been taken at 3530 Hastings (just south of Mack), Joe's Record Shop, in Detroit. That was Joe Von Battle's (JVB Records) operation.
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:20 pm: |
HEY LYNN: THANKS FOR COMING UP WITH THE "BLIND PIG" LOCATION...I LIVED UP IN ANN ARBOR FOR A YEAR OR TWO...AND I'M CERTAIN THAT I COULD DRIVE UP THERE TODAY AND FIND THE "BLIND PIG"...NEAR THE "DOWNTOWN" (IF YOU COULD CALL IT THAT) AREA...JUST NORTH OF THE CAMPUS OFF CENTRAL...I USED TO EAT AT THE CENTRAL CAFE...BEEF GOULASH...A BUCK SEVENTY FIVE!!!...I ONCE WALKED IN THE "PIG"...AND THOUGHT FOR SURE THAT I HAD STUMBLED ACROSS B.B. KING AS THE GUY...AND HIS NAME IS ON THE TIP OF MY TONGUE...WAS PERFORMING!!!...DO YOU REMEMBER THE IMMORTAL "SHAKEY JAKE" THE SELF PROCLAIMED BLUES SINGING STREET MAN!!!HE HUNG OUT JUST OFF CAMPUS ON EAST WILLIAM A LOT...AND ALWAYS CARRIED HIS GUITAR...AND SELLING "SHAKEY JAKE" T-SHIRTS WITH HIS PICTURE AND MICKEY MOUSE'S ON THEM!!!...JAKE WAS IN HIS 50'S OR 60"S...AND QUITE A CHARACTER!!!...I WOULD OCCASSIONALLY STOP AND TALK TO HIM...AND ONCE...I WAS GOING TO LANSING...AND CAUGHT JAKE ON THE ON-RAMP HITCHHIKING...AND PICKED HIM UP AND DROVE HIM CLEAR OVER TO FLINT WHERE HE WAS GOING TO VISIT HIS SISTER OR SOMETHING...HE WAS AN ANN ARBOR LEGEND!!!...LYNN:...THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!...MEL: INTERESTING TAKES ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DETROIT AND CHICAGO IN THIS REGARD!!!...STU
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 12:33 am: |
FORGOT SOMETHING!!!...HEY KEVGO: JUST SAW THE GREAT B.B. KING DOING A NATIONAL TELEVISION COMMERCIAL,,,AND IT'S GREAT TO SEE HIM DOING SO WELL!!!...SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC...BUT PARTIALLY ON TOPIC...I WAS WONDERING...WAS "THE THRILL IS GONE" B.B.'S MOST COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFUL PROJECT ALONG WITH ANY ASSOCIATED PROJECTS...AND JUST HOW MANY COPIES DID IT SELL...AND HOW MUCH DID THEY RAKE IN???...I COULD DO THE RESEARCH...BUT I FIGURE IT'S JUST THERE...SITTING AT THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD!!!...THANKS...STU
| By David Meikle (213.122.197.156) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 03:44 am: |
King had premises on Detroit's record row on Woodward Avenue.
The building is still there and will be featured in a webisode WAY down the line.
| By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 07:28 am: |
Stu,did you ever go to "Mr Floods Party" a bar on Liberty a block or so from the Blind Pig? In the 70s they had a band there called the "Brooklyn Blues Busters"that were one of the best I,ve heard for jump boogie type blues.The place had tiffany lamps and all kinds of things hanging from the ceiling,and you threw you peanut shells on the floor.How about the "Cracked Crab" on Liberty,almost next store to Mr Floods,for the best crabs in town and not a lot of money spent.
There's still a lot of street musicians in the summer in Ann Arbor. It,s a great town!!
| By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 11:43 am: |
There was a fairly unsucuessful place in A2 called Yukon Jack's that ran some pretty good bands through.
Lynn....
.....Mr. Floods Party was legendary. My problem was I spent too much time looking at the bottom of a beer stein at the Ale Haus in Ypsi.
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 12:12 pm: |
LYNN: "MR. FLOODS PARTY" IS ONE THAT ESCAPES ME...ALTHOUGH I MAY HAVE BEEN THERE...WHO KNOWS???...I DO REMEMBER THE "CRACKED CRAB"...AND THE "GANDY DANCER" RESTAURANT...AS WELL AS THE "COTTAGE INN"(I LIVED DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET)!!!...OF COURSE...WE ALL REMEMBER...OR POSSIBLY NOT..."HASH BASH DAY"...AN ANNUAL EVENT TAKING PLACE THROUGHOUT THE CAMPUS...I WONDER IF THAT TRADITION IS STILL GOING ON???...STU
| By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 12:41 pm: |
Stu,everything is just as "mello"as I'm sure you you remember.The Hash-Bash is alive and well,in fact it's coming up probably in april.
Mr.Floods Party closed for a while and then reopened and after a few years closed for good.You might have been there in it's closed time. A real shame, as it was funky like a western saloon,you'd see hippies in there,office workers, students, and street people.Kind of like the bars on Cass ave.Very interesting crowd,and in the evening everything from folk,jazz,rockabilly,poetry,and on the weekends the kick-ass Brooklyn Blues Busters. Damn,I miss that place!!!
| By radiogoon (206.148.224.54) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 03:27 am: |
Wanna see a great pic of Hastings? Check out the cover of "John Lee Hooker, The Modern Recordings. 1948-1954" Standing out on Hastings, you can even see the spires of St. Josaphats in the distance. As I've read, and it may simply be one persons opinion...the reason Detroit Blues never really took off is we had John Lee, and noone could imitate John Lee's style, whereas in Chicago, plenty of bands were able to rip off Muddy and Howlin' Wolf. Speaking of Detroit blues legends, I just read in Metro Times where they are doing a documentary on Uncle Jesse White (who I have had the pleasure of jamming with at The Atic in Hamtramck on occasion). Other not mentioneds, Mr. Bo Collins (who I beleive had a hit penned by his brother) and Bo's little brother, Little Mac Collins. I blew harp behind Little Mac at Johnnys Sweetheart Lounge at 2nd and Seldon in '91 or '92 (alcohol clouds my memory at this time) Best time I ever had, I dearly miss the man, as does the city. I know I'm a bass player, but I do mess with the "Missippi Saxaphone" now and again. Funniest part of the night was all the hookers in the corridor offering to help us carry in gear for cigarettes! That night is at the top of my musical resume. Also, let's not forget the Butler Twins (they used to play at Uncle Jesse's "rent parties" on 29th Sreet when they were kids, man practically taught them to play as I'm told).
Thanks for the thread...I love soul, but blues is my entire being!
Dr. Z
| By Jim G (152.163.188.68) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:20 am: |
Ref. John Lee Hooker's unique style, Bernie Besman, himself a trained musician (pianist), was confounded at first by Hooker's seeming inability to produce successive takes of one composition.
He'd have odd numbers of bars from one take to the next and the lyrics would change too.
Bernie finally figured out he couldn't read or write and believed this was the reason.
Doubtless this played into Hooker's individuality as a performer too.
I hear you, Dr Z, much of my soul is filled with the blues...
| By David Meikle (81.135.67.91) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 07:23 am: |
Thanks Dr Z.
No apologies for showing this link again.
Remember and roll the cursor over the pic to see it change.
http://www.bluesharp.org/tour/hastings0450.html
| By David Meikle (81.135.67.91) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 07:26 am: |
Then click the pic to see the full image.
| By Priscilla (66.73.3.221) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 10:26 pm: |
I thank these are the real blues people here in
Detroit today, Alberta Adams,Odessa Harris,
Johnnie Bassett,Big Jessie Williams,LiL,JR.Canady
The Late BOBO Jinkins,The Famous Coachman.
There are many more that Recorded right here in
Detroit.
| By RJ Spangler (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 02:26 am: |
Priscilla is right! Add her name to the above list! I managed (and drummed for) Johnnie Bassett for close to a decade. I have managed Odessa & Alberta for years. How about Kenny Miller...the Butler Twins...Rober Penn? The great Eddie Burns has been mentioned. Coachman was very important to Detroit blues. I understood he helped break songs like "The Blues is Alright" & "Downhome Blues"....these tunes were BIG in Detroit before they hit elsewhere cuz we have a good market for blues. Jay Butler & Raymone on WQBH keep this tradition alive. When the Soup Kitchen was open and College bars in Ann Arbor booked blues, this area was a big stop for Chicago blues guys like Sunnyland Slim, Koko Taylor, Alberta Collins, even Willie Dixon. Lynn you mentioned the Blooklyn Blues Busters...I am in touch with several of those guys to this day. We may be a shodow of our former selves, but we Detroit blues folks hang on! Have any of you seen the excellent feature on Priscilla Price in the current Living Blues mag?
RJ Spangler
| By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.84) on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 09:33 am: |
Many thanks for all this info.
mel.
| By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:11 am: |
RJ....
....remember the Chessmate? Morrie's booking habits were, er, eclectic, but for about 3 years in the late '60's, I just about lived there......
| By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 02:47 pm: |
Hi Priscilla
I got your mail thanks.
Have a great time on SoulfulDetroit!
David
| By dave (207.241.137.125) on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 11:17 am: |
Been wanting to say thanks to Jim G for his great book, and R J Spangler(the current Chairman of the Board of the Detroit Blues Society) for everything he does for music around Detroit for a long time. This looks like a good thread to put it on ...
Thanks guys
dave
| By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:35 pm: |
Dave, please accept a big 'thanks' from Lars and me for your kind words about B Motown.
We are currently working on a Detroit jazz CD project that will contain rare and unissued material by Detroit musicians, including material recorded at the fabled Blue Bird Inn in 1949/50.
| By RJ Spangler (205.188.209.109) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 01:32 am: |
Thanks Dave! Right now is a good time to recognized for my work as its been a long and somewhat painful road. This is, indeed, a tough biz to be in! Jim, I look forward to the CD! I hope to see you in Greektown this weekend. -RJ
| By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 12:27 pm: |
If you are interested in hearing some vintage Detroit Blues presented exceptionally well on CD, check out the recent John Lee Hooker release called: "Boogie Chillen'" on the Audio Fidelity label. It features 20 tracks all recorded between 1948 and 1954. It was mastered by Steve Hoffman, who also did all of those DCC gold discs. I believe the title track was recorded at United Sound in 1948 and is a transfer from 78 RPM disc. All of the other tracks were recorded after they got into that new-fangled "tape" technology. 
Here in the US, some stores (Best Buys & Media Plays & such) are stocking it in their "Super Audio CD" sections, but it will also play in regular CD players and is priced like a normal CD as well. It has been a fixture in my car for the last week or so.
Regards,
Ken
| By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 12:53 pm: |
Kudos to Jim G and RJ ...and speaking of the Detroit Blues Society, props to the female president who happens to be my sister-in-law, Shirley Mae ...
| By Lynn Bruce (68.41.106.8) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 03:14 pm: |
R.J. Spangler: I just now read your post on may 13 about your still being in touch with some of the Brooklyn Blues Busters. What have they been doing all these years? Are any of them still playing the blues.Where do they live now.No special reason except that as a musician I know who can really play and those who took lessons but haven't got enough natural talent to really make a living at it.Those guys used to knock me out,plus they really looked like they were having fun up on stage.Every time I saw them I would leave thinking" damn I wish I was working with them".
When I worked with Mr.Bo it was around the time they were in Ann Arbor.We worked hard behind Mr. Bo,but we didn,t have near the fun the Blues Busters seemed to have.
Lynn
| By mc5rules (148.61.97.30) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 05:08 pm: |
On a thread like this, I have to give props to my pal John Sinclair, whose book and CD project "Fattening Frogs For Snakes" does an amazing job of chronicling the history and social impact of the blues in poetry and music. It's well worth checking out.
For any of you on the West side of Michigan, you can catch me playing some of that stuff with him on July 30 at New Holland Brewing Co. in Holland...
| By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 05:31 pm: |
mc5rules
Are we talking about Detroit Blues, or across the board, in this book?
| By mc5rules (204.39.212.195) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 01:24 am: |
He talks across the board, and I guess if you had to identify a main focus, it would probably be the south. But he pays special attention to Detroit in some spots, and he talks about Detroit artists. Plus, he's a Detroit legend in his own right!
| By RJ Spangler (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 02:12 am: |
John knows blues. Period. He is a mentor to me. Lynn Bruce, I am very close with Bill Heid, the pianist for the Brooklyn Blues Busters. Bill went on the record as a sideman for Alligator in Chicago (2 Koko Taylors, 2 Fenton Robinsons, 1 Roy Buchanan). He & I are on several J.Bassett CD's together and Bill has his own CD called "Bill Heid & the Detroit Blues Masters" which I am on too. Bill is another mentor! The drummer from the Brooklyn Blues Busters was Martin Gross who went by the name of Little Tino on WEMU for YEARS. Martin went on to play with Johnny Nicholas, Snooky Prior, Bo Diddley, Earl King, Johnny Adams & many more. He was in the Urbations in the 80's and he now fronts the Howling Diablos and he has been producing RL Burnside for Fat Possum. The bass player, Johnny Ace, is busy in the San Fran Bay area, still playing and he writes a little for Sue's brothers mag, Big City Blues. The harmoica player, John Leslie Nuzo went on to be a BIG porn star and today he is a porn producer (Heid did like 20 of his sound tracks). He goes by John Leslie today.
| By Lynn Bruce (68.41.106.8) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 02:48 pm: |
A PORN STAR!! Man,I can't wait to e-mail a friend of mine in Half Moon Bay,Ca. He used to live at Ann Arbors Mr.Floods Party when the Brooklyn Blues Busters were playing there.
Makes me want to hit some porn rental places and check his name out.(purely for research,of course)
Thanks for the info R.J.
Lynn
| By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 02:51 pm: |
That has got to be the first musician-to-porn star job change, eh?
| By radiogoon (66.2.148.58) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 02:05 am: |
Someone mentioned Alberta Adams.
Gonna be following Alberta Adams at Heatstock on July 25th in Fostoria...RJ, I will look u up there! We go on right after Alberta. You folks wanna here some prime Detroit blues? Try and make Heatstock this weekend (July 25&26) in Fostoria. Info at www.nocover.net.
Hey RJ, I used to jam with Kenny Miller around the same time Thornetta Davis used to sit in with him, what is Kenny up to??
See ya Friday!
Dr.Z
The Hardtailz
Blues...Detroit Style
| By Keith Rylatt (217.137.90.41) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:43 am: |
Hey Mel, this is a GREAT thread, here are a few articles from UK Blues magazines you might find interesting -
Juke Blues 4 & 5. `Eddie Kirkland, Detroit Was Flooded With Blues`.
Blues & Rhythm 51. "Hello Chicago, Detroit Is On Your Back".
Blues & Rhythm 87. The Clarence Paul Story.
Blues & Rhythm 108 & 109. Andre `Mr Rhythm` Williams Comes Clean About Jail Bait, Bacon Fat, Pullin' Time & Greasy Chickens.
Blues & Rhythm 117. Old Detroit.
Blues & Rhythm 167. The Hurricane of the Motor City: The Life Story of Brother Will Hairson.
Living Blues 3. Detroit Blues.
Blues Unlimited 12. Fortune Records.
Blues Unlimited 85. Motor City Blues & Boogie.
Jazz Journal. (May 1960). Land of the Blues.
Detroit City Limits 10. Blues For Big Town.
Also a good USA published book might still be in print called "I'll Take You There" (an oral & photographic history of the Hines Farm Blues club" by Matthew A Donahue. Pub. Jive Bomb Press. Although this club was near Toledo. it was only about an hours drive from Detroit and hosted the Motor city's finest.
Keith. P S. if anyone knows of any other mag / book sources for Detroit Blues, I would love to know about them please.
| By Keith Rylatt (217.137.90.41) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:50 am: |
BIG BIG omission, sorry - Big City Blues, current USA blues magazine actually produced in Detroit. (PO Box 1805. Royal Oak. MI 48068-1805.) Humble groveller Keith
| By MEL&THEN SOME (81.174.193.11) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 06:18 pm: |
Cheers Keith
at the moment I am listening to some of the old Detroit Bluesmen.
BoBo Jenkins(1916-84)
his 1954 recording of 'Democrat Blues'
which supposedly inspired John Lee Hookers track several years later of 'Democrat man'.
Also by Bo Bo Jenkins from around 1956 and '10 below zero'.
Baby Boy Warren(1919-77)
although originally from Louisiana
but spent the latter years of his life in Detroit.
He made a few good records whilst in Detroit between 1949 and 1954 and getting the likes of the greats of Sonny Boy Williamson on harp to join him and also guitarists like George Jackson and Calvin Frazier.
He even accompanied the great boogie woogie pianist
Boogie Woogie Red on his only visit to the uk in 1972.
Others from Detroit
Detroit Count
Henry Smith
Little Sonny
plus of course John Lee Hooker either in his own name or his other names such as
Texas Slim
Delta John
Birmingham Sam and his magic guitar
Johnny Williams
The Boogie Man
and Little Pork Chops.
At times Hooker was joined with
Eddie Burns
Eddie Kirkland.
All great stuff
regards
blues brother Mel
| By Jim G (64.12.97.7) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 06:26 pm: |
I remember when BoBo used to hang out with Famous Coachman at the WDET studios in the late 70's. He was a nice person, friendly, and I knew right away he was special.
Once the elevators went out at the station (WDET was on the top of the Maccabees building, 15 flights up), and after my show I was walking down with my bag of records. I met BoBo about halfway down; he was somewhat out of breath and looked tired. We stopped and talked for a minute. Finally he looked at me and said, "Man I hope I make it to the top!"
| By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 06:45 pm: |
Big City Blues, edited by Robert Jr. Whitall, whom I sort of know.
| By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 06:46 pm: |
Great story, Jim.
| By Jim G (64.12.97.7) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 07:02 pm: |
YES, BIG CITY BLUES! That mag, and its publisher, are true Champions of Detroit music.
Bob Whitall goes through a lot of crap to get his mag out on schedule. And he puts out a quality product.
| By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 08:43 pm: |
Where can I get a copy of these magazines? I only have one copy which I obtained at one of Gino's Legend shows.
| By Keith Rylatt (217.137.89.6) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 03:55 am: |
Sis The UK mags mentioned are all fairly old but Big City (Rhythm &) Blues has an E mail address - blues@bigcitybluesmag.com also try www.bigcitybluesmag.com
fax (248)582 8242
phone (248) 582 8242. I gave their address in Royal Oak on an earlier posting. Keith
| By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 09:57 am: |
You can buy my brother's magazine, Big City Blues, at any Borders and most music stores in Detroit. That phone number no longer works.
| By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 10:10 am: |
Thank you and Thank you!
| By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 10:13 am: |
As for Sis, don't worry about it, she'll have her own free copy.
We call it the "Detroit hookup" ...