By Edgar (200.46.134.185) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 07:09 pm:

Sorry I post my opinions about this topic so late, but I had to give it a thought. I belong in the category of those who were a bit disappointed with "A Cellarful of Motown!", but who will buy it again if necessary and keep it as a treasure, as well as other compilations that I have bought ("Tamla Motown Connoisseurs", "The Music Merchant Story", "Big Hits and Rare To Find Classics"...)
In my case, the problems lies in the experience of listening. It is just too long and I may say monotonic as a whole. Back in the '60s I could listen without problem to 12 tracks on sides 1 and 2 of a Motown album, which was only linked by the artist, composer or producer. Even when there were different producers and writers (as in Martha & the Vandellas' "Watchout!" or the Four Tops' "Yesterday�s Dreams"), I would not mind much. It was over soon, and I could quickly detect the ones I liked, "I'm Ready for Love", "No More Tearstained Make Up", "We've Got a Strong Love (On Our Side)" or "Sunny"...
With the emergence of the concept album, with Marvin Gaye, Norman Whitfield, Stevie Wonder and the releases of albums like "What's Going On", "Syreeta", "Masterpiece", "Talking Book", and Frank Wilson's and Brian Holland's work with The '70s Supremes, it seemed to me a much satisfying listening experience. If I compare "New Ways But Love Stays" and "High Energy" to the 1975 album "The Supremes", the difference is evident to me.
So in 2003, when I listen to "A Cellarful of Motown!", I usually fall asleep (some may say these are senior moments...) This does not mean that the individual tracks are not good. It's just a matter of how I experience the sound, which makes me think of what I have read about Erik Satie's 1893 "Vexations", which demonstrated that art can incorporate boredom in its forms and questioned and invalidated the narrow aesthetic notion that art must always entertain. I have never heard it performed, but I've read that he asked that his piece be played 840 times in succession: "To play this motif 840 times in succession, it would be advisable to prepare oneself beforehand, in the deepest silence, by serious immobilities", Satie wrote. Apparently, it first produces boredom, then a hypnotic effect. Whenever there is a little variation, the listener experiences something bigger, as if the variation were magnified. That happens to me whenever there is a different song, I immediately wake up and say, "What song is that?" It's quite strange...
That's how I feel about most of those collections with many tracks, even when the performer is the same (as with the wonderful Jean Terrell on CD one of "The '70s Supremes Anthology".) Curiously, it's quite different if the songs are familiar but the versions unknown, as in "The Ultimate Rarities Collection", which is excellent for me: it gives new air to Motown classics. But when I listen to compilations of standards, as "Motown Celebrates Sinatra", or of other artists� songs, as "Motown Meets The Beatles", I rarely enjoy it. Maybe I find one track very good, say Syreeta's "She�s Leaving Home", but when all are put together, as a listening experience, I pass, I rarely listen to them.
As for what Maury wrote, I understood something like, "If you don't like strawberry, you are going to hate chocolate"... I found nothing offensive about that.

By Scratcher (65.238.127.15) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 07:26 pm:

I hear you Edgar: if you don't like N.W.A. you're going to hate Snoop Dogg, which is why I too understood what Maury meant.

You expressed my feelings about compilations CDs. I treasured them (especially the ones with informative booklets), never trade or sell 'em, but rarely listen to them completely. I play them once all the way thru at first then skip to songs I like on repeated plays. This applies to northern soul, Motown, southern soul, funk, whatever. I treat the CDs and tapes that I compile myself the same way.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 07:28 pm:

Hi Edgar

Thanks for joining us again from Panama(am I right?).

At the end of the day this comes down to me doing what should not be done in a democracy.

Regarding Maury, I thought he was giving my American friends the impression that the music on the NS scene is disgusting.

Being a fact that he thus refers to every uptempo recording ever produced by Black America during the sixties era, I took offence.

Being someone who was there when this was emerging, I take 100% pride in preserving the history of this remarkable scene.

I also take pride in the fact that the scene is responsible for many re-releases. We don't like them all but I am forever thankful.

Edgar it is also a fact that you are receiving incredible value for money for these 40 tunes.

Compare that to what you paid for the original 45's or albums.

Another suggestion.... switch the cd off after 12 tracks.

David (not being aggresive)

By HW (68.37.216.164) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 07:34 pm:

One suggestion: just play 6 songs and then turn it off. Come back to it again later and play six more.

I do that in general with CDs - play it through as if there really is a side one and a side two, and even three or four if long enough.

And there's always the program button.

I recognize the point being made about the sound of certain material, but take the blame off the delivery system.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 07:35 pm:

Scratcher

Again, with respect.

Is it not the case that the gems in this life can be the most rewarding after more than a few listens?

I'm not saying every Northern cd is loaded with gems (that is impossible on all but a few cd's) but my experience is above average over the piece.

I think you are were talking 20 cd's. Off the top I have approx 100.

Never, never, right off a recording after one listen.

David

By mhc (172.167.125.46) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 08:22 pm:

IMO, "Cellarful of Motown" is a treasure. In fact, I NEVER listen to the thing straight through; I have my 10 or so favorite tracks that I play, and they are indispensible to me. To choose just one, I think that "On The Avenue" by Jimmy Ruffin is one of the greatest Soul tracks ever, bar none. Since, like it says in plain language on the package, these tunes are all outtakes, you've gotta expect some of them to be stiffs, and some are. But, for another example, if you don't think that "All I Do" by Tammi Terrell isn't a masterpiece of Soul Music, then God help ya'.. I love "Cellarful.."

By mhc (172.167.125.46) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 08:23 pm:

OOPS, double-negative.. (Sorry Tammi..)

By stephanie (64.63.221.99) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 09:55 pm:

I think that it is a joy to have Cellar Full and all of this stuff. David is right its rare and we are blessed to have these things. I will admit that on every CD I have there is at least one song I dont like and the only criticism I can give of almost any whole CD is the Ian Levine stuff. NOT because of the artists but some of the music I WILL say this Im grateful it was made though because otherwise we wouldnt have heard some of these artists again especially Frances Nero. When I had Christine Coopers Heartaches away My Boy and Sidney Barnes I Hurt on the Other Side and Florence Ballards Love Aint Love I had no idea 30 years later these songs would be talked about and would be Northern Soul Classics and have people on the Internet like them I feel that I am truly blessed. I cherish even the Ian Levine stuff for that matter and MAKE myself listen to things I like and dont like.

Its like your mom tells you to eat liver and she says its good for you and you dont want it and you get older and need iron and you appreciate what she told you to do. IM telling you I dont care how old you are make yourself like some of the things you dont you might be shocked at your acquired taste later on.

I remember when Junie Morrison left the Ohio Players and did the record Tightrope it was a minor hit and I kept saying I was going to buy it and never did and I had the hardest time finding that record...I had to look for years. If Motown keeps coming out or Ian Levine for that matter with anything HEY its worth getting for historical value..oh by the way Edgar Im not putting down your opinion at all I just want you to know that. There was a time I couldnt get used to the concept album like Isaac Hayes and Marvin Gaye and Stevie and things like that and I still wanted the three or four minute single but NOW I like both. So I know what you mean by getting a feel and liking some other type of mood music or an extended play and a message. Sorry to ramble but Im glad there are other people out there who like this stuff I used to feel like I was the only person who looked at catalog numbers and record colors and sounds and all of that.
Stephanie

By Nish (170.224.224.102) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 10:32 pm:

I like this thread. Everytime I purchase a new CD, I listen to about a minute of each song and determine the favorites. SOon, I get locked into a habit of playing those same songs each time I play that particular CD. My first Northern Soul collection I bought many years ago. From jump, I knew I loved this song "You're Love Makes Me Lonely," Connie Clarke's "My Sugar Baby" and "Are You Angry" by the Servicemen. Those songs just JUMPED at me. Then one day, I chose that CD to play as I cleaned my room, I discovered I liked a song called "Walk Into My Heart"... and today, many years later, I can play that CD all the way through and like each and every song. What frequently happens to me is that I get caught in my ABSOLUTE out of the box favorites, and then the others grow on me, and it is a process of variable lengths, but it tends to happen for me quite often.

When I first purchased the Let's Get It On album in 11th grade (I was finally allowed!), I wasn't so taken by the song "Come Get To This," then all of the sudden, I rediscovered the song just this past April, and that's the first song I reach for when I play that album (quite frequently). I think it's kind of fun, like finding something new in something you always had.

By John Lester (213.123.134.112) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 11:56 pm:

Edgar....

I am mindful that the 4 CD's you mention early in your post are all ones that I was involved with.

In the words of that great song from Holland-Dozier/Eloise Laws....Where did I (we) go wrong?

By Edgar (200.46.134.58) on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 02:04 am:

Thanks for the suggestion, HW. Funny, the other day I programmed 6 songs: Brenda Holloway's "Let Love Grow" and "Some Quiet Place", and Eloise Laws' "Love Factory", "Stay With Me", "Tighten Him Up" and "You Made Me An Offer". Then pressed the Repeat button. I fell asleep, as usual, but I fell in love with one song: "Tighten Him Up". David, I have never left. I often post little messages. And John, remember, I said it was just the loooong listening experience, not that the compilation work is bad. And please be sure, that I will buy "Connoisseurs", and "Cellarful" 2, 3, 4... etc.

By Dave Rimmer (213.120.107.224) on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 09:30 am:

Hey folks......there is a rather crude, but effective saying.....'F**k Art, Let's Dance'

I'm sorry, but all this examination of tracks in the most miniscule detail really bugs me. the music was made for people to enjoy, not write a thesis about. Referring back to the Northern Soul scene, we used to go out to enjoy ourselves at allnighters, ok, you wouldn't like every track played, but that would be asking too much over an eight hour period.

As someone who is still attending, and DJing at allnighters, almost thirty years since I attended my first one, the whole point of the last thirty years is I've heard some great music, and ENJOYED myself. Be positive, skip the tracks you don't like, and be grateful that you have had the privelage to hear the ones you do like. I for one am so grateful to the people of Black America in the Sixties, through your efforts I have had thirty years pleasure, and see no reason why I won't have another thirty years.

Sixties Soul music has been the soundtrack of my life, I'm quite happy with my life as it is, I'm lucky in that respect, so I don't need to analyse my life, nor do I need to analyse my choice of music.

This post is not aimed at anyone in particular, but rather the whole furore that the original posts caused. It's music, not life or death, but I can understand why David jumped in so strongly to defend Northern Soul, it is music, but it's been a huge part of my life as well.

So chill out, discuss by all means, but keep some perspective.

It's now 2.35 pm, and I'm going to bed having got back from an excellent night out at Bretby Country Club allnighter. Byeeeee

By Edgar (200.46.132.142) on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 12:58 pm:

Dave, we could say "Here we go again" and cause a trifulca de quinto patio, but no. Everybody is not the same. I was a film critic for 25 years and I can't help having this attitude sometimes. On the other hand, I left the night circuit long ago, and prefer listening to (tracks from) my "Cellarful" at home with friends.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 05:00 pm:

Thanks for the advice Dave.

By Eddie Welk, Hoping to talk with the real Rimmer! (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 06:53 pm:

Rimmer, are you related to the Rimmer from "Red Dwarf" by any chance? One of my most favorite scifi/comedy series.
Was that you on the famous spaceship??? If so I have many questions for you.
Rimmer was a holographic image and was a lot like me. Invisible!

By Promises Kept (69.144.143.21) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 09:33 am:

The advice Harry gave on listening to "Cellarful" a few tracks at a time is excellent. I, too, found it a bit overwhelming with repetition in production. But then; just played about 8-10 tracks over and over....just like a new vinyl record. It works great and one really appreciates the tracks much more individually.

By TonyRussi (68.18.39.39) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 10:07 am:

Edgar, glad you like "Tighten Him Up" By Eloise Laws...that is one of the few Music Merchant 45's that I purchased new at a record store in the early 70's.I think the only other one was "Mama's Little Baby" by Brotherly Love.At least the record shop had those even if they did not receive airplay here.

By stephanie (64.63.221.90) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 11:16 am:

A friend of mine in Boston who got a Cellarful Of Motown said that he had no idea there was this great talent who had not been heard of. Im telling you this CD has made many people happy all over the world..
Stephanie