By Nish (66.119.34.39) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 03:39 pm: |
I'm well aware of the soul scenes in Philly, Detroit, Chicago, New York, Memphis, Atlanta, and New Orleans. But what was going on over on the left coast in the 1960s?
I'm familiar with the Dore stable - including the Superbs and the Whispers. And of course, we're all aware of the Friends of Distinction and the Fifth Dimension. If I'm not mistaken, the Servicemen ("Are You Angry") were from there. And of course Brenda and Patrice Holloway. But was there a SERIOUS soul movement I don't know about that took place here? Who were some of the artists? The way we characterize Detroit with the driving rhythm and Chicago with the great, vibrant horn arrangements, is there any particular musical characterization of the California/L.A. brand of soul? Was this soul scene mainly confined to LA and environs, or was there an appreciable amount of action going on in S.F., S.D., Sacramento, etc.?
Come on and tell me what ya know and when you knew it! :-)
By Common (209.2.55.168) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:00 pm: |
Hello Nish!
Why don't we start with the great Sly Stone? If I'm not mistaken, he grew up & was a DJ in Cali before he became the musical giant that he is. I also think that the group War originated from Sunshine state. Ashford & Simpson wrote a song called "California Soul" which I think the song talked about pop groups like the Mamas & The Papas(who had their own "soul") & The Beach Boys.
Peace!
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:05 pm: |
Nish
Some of my favourite music came from Hollywood.
The Minit label on Sunset which released a large amount of high quality material, some of it from Chicago admittedly.
The Loma label on Warner Blvd where Mike McLean worked until recently.
The Mirwood label on Sunset, who recorded at Emperor Production Studios on North Vermont.
The Kent/Modern labels who were based south east of Hollywood in South Normandie.
All of these labels were prolific/high quality issuers of 5 star soul music.
By Nish (66.119.34.39) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:11 pm: |
Oh wow, I have lots of material from all the labels you mentioned, but somehow, I totally didn't know they were based in LA/Hollywood. Thanks, DMeikle!
Common - Sly! How can I forget Sly! Thanks, kitten!
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:18 pm: |
Her's a nice image from Kent Records in England.
Some of the people to record on these LA labels were Bobby Freeman, Leon Haywood, Billy Keen, Bobby Mandolph, Lee Washington, Judy Hughes.
Tommy Neal's Detroit recording "Going to a happening" was even released on Vault.
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:21 pm: |
Wasn't there a fairly active doo-wop scene in LA in the late '50's? Somewhere I got the idea that The Penguins ("Earth Angel") were from there, but I may (heck, probably) be mistaken...
By Nish (216.148.244.38) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:28 pm: |
Oh the doowop scene was fecund - Dooto/Dootone, etc.
By Common (209.2.55.169) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:35 pm: |
Hello everyone,
Nish: No problem! I forgot to add Bob Keene. His name came up a lot in Sam Cooke's bio & Barry worked with him on his Mustang label, according Barry's autobio. (Yoo-hoo, KevGo! where are you?).
Peace!
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:52 pm: |
Nish:
Prior to the Rock & Soul eras, Los Angeles was a serious contender in the rhythm & blues arena.
After WWII, Los Angeles experienced a massive population boom, especially in the African-American neighborhoods such as Compton. These folks came to LA from the South, searching for work and a better living climate.
With this growth came a demand for music in the juke joints, night clubs & theatres. As a result, a smoother, more urbane form of the blues emerged from this part of the country. Some called it "race music", others called it "sepia".
People such as Atlantic Records' Jerry Wexler, a music editor at Billboard magazine during this era, used a more dignified term - rhythm & blues.
When folks figured out how to build record pressing plants, these firms started making records. The Bihari Brothers (Modern Records), Jack Lauderdale (Swing Time/Down Beat), Lew Chudd (Imperial), the Rene Family (Excelsior/Exclusive), John Dolphin (Dolphin's Of Hollywood, Recorded In Hollywood) are just a few of the record makers that ran the LA scene.
The artists - Ray Charles, Fats Domino, Charles Brown w/Johnny Moore's Three Blazers, Mabel Scott, Big Jay McNeely, Lowell Fulson, Johnny Otis, Lloyd Glenn, Jay McShann, Jimmy Witherspoon, the Basin Street Boys - the list goes on & on.
This scene was vibrant from 1946 until 1956, when changing tastes in the youth market created a shift in which genres were selling. That, plus the horrible racism the club scene suffered at the hands of the LAPD's constant crackdowns (the city fathers saw that too many whites were frequenting the black neighborhoods to their liking).
The R&B scene in LA was down but not out. The kids who were born during the post-war became the recording stars of the 1960s & 70s.
The Fifth Dimension & the Friends of Distinction were both influenced by the vocal group harmonies that came from the artists signed to LA-based R&B labels.
The Rene Brothers hired a young man to do hand-claps on a record they produced in the early 1960s called "Tossin' Ice Cubes." That young man was Barry White, who went on to become the A&R chief of Mustang/Bronco Records in 1966.
Jack Lauderdale sold Ray Charles' recording contract to Atlantic Records for about $2,500.00, probably the best investment Ahmet Ertegun & Jerry Wexler made at that time.
John Dolphin founded Money Records in the 1950s but found success in two hits from the 1960s - "The Jerk" by the Larks (1964) and Bettye Swan's "Make Me Yours" (1967).
The West Coast R&B scene of the 1940s laid the ground work for the music we heard from the Left Coast in the soul era.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
(PS - Minit Records was originally a New Orleans-based label founded by Joe Banashak & Larry McKinley. Since Banashak was a record distributor who handled Imperial Records' account, he cut a deal w/Imperial's Lew Chudd to have the LA-based label carry Minit for the USA. While they had hits, Banashak had "money problems" [read: gambling] & sold Minit to Imperial to cover his debts. He later founded Instant Records, which his estate owns to this day)
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.54) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:54 pm: |
Mirwood Records say no more.
Jackie Lee all great tracks as well as
The Olympics-Legends
Philly Dog
Western Movies
Same old thing
We go together
Good Lovin'
Big boy pete
Secret Agents
I'll do a little more and other gems.
Bobby Garrett-I Cant get away
Earl Cosby- ooh honey baby
The Belles-Dont pretend with the outstanding Shirley Matthews on Vocals.
Performers-set me free
Sheppards-stubborn heart
Bob and Earl Band-My little girl
Furys-Im satisfied with you
Jackie Lee&Delores Hall-wether its right or wrong
JW Alexander-I Come home
and 2 of the rare/northern soul mega-rarities in there day
Richard Temples rare soul all nighter anthem
of
"that Beatin'Rhytm"
this to me is what the scene is all about
and not forgetting the other rarity of the inst to the above beatin' rhythm track
"cigarette ashes"
Loma records
every god-damn track throughout there catalouge
but special mentions to
Satisfied-Ben Aiken
"S-A-T
LORD Im feeling good now
I-S
Everything is all right
F-I-E-D
Sock it to me baby
oooooh Satisfied
as long as I know you love me
so Satisfied now"
pearler!!!!!!!!!!
also
Roy Redmond-aint that terrible
Charles Thomas-man with the golden touch
All the Apollo's tracks.
Linda Jones superlative Just cant live my life
Soul Shakers outrageous dancer Im getting weaker
JJJacksons come see me
Voice boxes gem I want it back your love
another pearler from the SOULSTRESS Linda Jones and My heart needs a break and give my love a try.
plus
a great lot more including a superb 7 album compilation set of all the various tracks ranging from all the above plus Ike and Tina,Mighty Hanniball,G-Clefs etc etc with an album featuring JJ Jackson and Linda Jones,
we all know the depth and great material associated with Loma.
Minit Records with gems such as
Bobby Womacks What is this
and the o'jays classic of
workin on your case etc.
And as for
Kent/Modern
well theres that much outstanding material from there vaults that I would be here all night.
If you dont know any of these labels/artists then I whole heartedly and totally 100% biasedly
say CHECK THEM OUT.
phew,
mel(going for a lie-down)
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:56 pm: |
Here's the king of the Mirwood sound.
By Tony Russi (68.18.39.39) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:58 pm: |
The Ike & Tina Turner Revue was based in LA and had some great 60's Soul music on the Kent/Modern & Loma labels then Phil Spectors Philles Records and in the late 60's early 70's on Bob Krasnows Blue Thumb record label.Tina was Soul Personified!!
By Nish (216.148.244.38) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:59 pm: |
There's the soul encyclopedia right there! Thanks, Kev, you're the authority, man!
By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.54) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:59 pm: |
Nice one David.
mel(walking the duck)
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:02 pm: |
Nish & David:
A little trivia for you - Barry White is the drummer on "The Duck". He & Jackie Lee were dear friends during that time and helped Jackie put the song together (arranged the background vocals and rhythm track). Barry was also Jackie's drummer on his tour which included a gig at the Apollo in NYC.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:04 pm: |
Then there was Money who used Audio Arts/TTG or Gold Star studios. The latter on Santa Monica and Vine.
Pic courtesy of Ace/Kent
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.54) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:06 pm: |
Kev
great info matey,
were all in the groove here and flying.
mel.
ps have you heard the instrumental to the Duck Kev by
The Triumphs on Verve Records(no.10422)
it stomps and then some.
mel.
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:08 pm: |
An astonishing list Mel.
Kev any idea who the rest of the band were?
The bass player plays a huge part in their recordings.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:14 pm: |
Nish:
If you can find this CD, I highly recommend buying it - "Boss Soul: The Genius Of Barry White" on the Del-Fi label.
Barry was (and still is) a huge fan of the Detroit/Motown Sound and was hired by Bob Keane to make Bronco Records "the West Coast answer to Motown." Barry served as VP/A&R from 1966 until late 1967.
This CD features tunes such as Violet Wills' "Lost Without The Love Of My Guy", Felice Taylor's "It May Be Winter Outside" (Bronco's biggest hit) and Barry singing "All In The Run Of A Day".
Check out the cover of the CD showing a 1960s Barry White large & in charge:
http://www.del-fi.com/albumcovers/ac71255.html
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:16 pm: |
David:
Barry didn't mention who was in the band on the studio date in his autobiography nor does he mention who was in the touring band.
If I find out any addition info you will be the first to know.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By Common (209.2.55.172) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:19 pm: |
Wait a minute! Jackie Lee is the guy that Barry was talking about in his autobio? Cool! I didn't even make the connection until read KevGo's post about the tour Jackie & Barry did, then it clicked. Okay now. It's coming to together slowly. I read all these books & it's hard sometimes to remember & keep information straight. Whew!
Peace
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:35 pm: |
Common:
Earl Nelson p/k/a Jackie Lee was a colleague of Barry's for a number of years in the LA music scene. Legend has it that Barry was the pianist/organist on the hit "Harlem Shuffle" by Bob & Earl.
Two years later in 1965 Earl recorded "The Duck" which was arranged by Barry White and featured Barry on the drums. Earl used the stage name "Jackie Lee" (Jackie was the name of Earl's wife). Barry went on tour with Jackie but left abruptly after an altercation with a racist audience in the South.
I saw on Amazon.com what appears to be a CD reissue of "The Duck" album. This may have the session info David Meikle was asking about.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.54) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:36 pm: |
Okeh Im on a roll here,
other of my personal gems
Vault Records
The Wooden Nickels-Nobody but you
Billy Keene-Wishing and hoping
Judy Hughes fine,fine,fine
Fat Fish
well david
its just gotta be
Baby Reconsider by Leon Haywood.
also the great 45s by
Andy Fisher Hearts beating stronger with the incredible flip of A Wee bit longer.
Autumn records and Bobby Freemans
Ill never fall in love again
Call me Records and the old inst dancer by Hank Jacobs and his Elijah rockin'with soul
the Torch dancer on the
Ten Star Label of
The Charge by the TKO'S
A Lot of great material on the
Money label and I have a few by Bettye Swann
and not a bad one amongst them.
Has somebody been snooping through my boxes of sounds here or what?
mel(with platters that matter)
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:40 pm: |
It's frightening, the quality in these lists Mel.
I guess that's why I'm excited about this thread.
Here's a pic showing two of the big players in sixties LA, Fred Smith and Miles Grayson. Has anyone ever seen a pic of Arthur Wright? A true doyen of our music.
Pic courtesy of Goldmine UK.
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:51 pm: |
Then there were Len Jewell Productions and Teri De records operating out of premises on South Bronson.
And I almost forgot to mention James Carmichael of Mirwood who went on to great things at Motown.
Here he is in the studio with Fred Smith (left) and Jacke Lee (right).
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:51 pm: |
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:54 pm: |
There was also James Gresham, Chester Pipkin and Marc Gordon.
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.35) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:11 pm: |
David,
the Larry Atkins that is above is one of my all time personal best ever double siders I have.
Lighten up and the flip being on a par as Lighten up the brilliant and soulful sound titled
"aint hat love enough"
I have it on the Highland label and for me at around 50 squid this is a steal.
got mine around 84,
worth up to 250/300 on the Romark Label(115)
with another class track called
"have mercy on me"
to me personally Larry Atkins version of "Lighten up"blows Ty Karims out of the briny.
Keyman Records
yet more stunning cuts including
the best recording for me of Bobby Womacks
"what is this"
also theres the
Keyman Strings Orchestra.
but
Arthur Wright
a legend in my eyes.
A friend of mine met him last year and Arthur took him out on the town with a meal to start then a few beers.
Also gave him a few unreleased acetates and by all accounts a very genuine top guy.
Other Sounds from LA
Servicemen-Sweet magic
Soul Gents-wonder of love
younghearts-everything
Four Tempos-this is the way I feel
Paramounts-under your spell
Natural Four-I thought you were mine
Terri Goodnight-they didnt know
Kell Osbourne-Quicksand
the classic early Mecca gem by Brice Coefield and "aint that right'
also 45s by
New Yorkers
Four Tempo's
The Tripps and a record that I bought a long time ago and "THERES THAT MOUNTAIN,
disregard the flip this is the sound.
Inspirations-your wish is my command
Prominants
another of mine by The Four Sights and "love is a hurting game that I cant win"
(thanks pete Lawson)
Phonetics
Yet another I have by The Remarkables and
"is the feeling still there"as well as the known dancer.
Rose Brooks
The superb dancer by The Groovers and "bashful guy"
Eddie Foster-closer together
James Dockery's superb
"my faith in you has all gone"
paris and the outstanding lyrics on "Sleepless Nights"
Troy Dodd's ace "try my love"
the stormer by JD Abrahms and "doctor of love"
(not the whispers/Bobby Sheen cut)
Johnny Summers
The great Bobby Angelle
Tate
and loads more.
and I am still in L.A.
MEL(Groover and Mooover)
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:17 pm: |
Mel
Intersting about Arthur Wright.
I'd love to shake his hand.
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.35) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:21 pm: |
Too Right David,
this guy has done a hell of a lot of great stuff to say the least.
mel.
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.35) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:35 pm: |
Len Jewell
Betting on Love
need I go any further.
worth about 2 grand on Teri de(no4)
but my Fontana demo will do.
For me apart from Bettin on love my ultimate killer of a dancer is the other side to Jimmy(Jimmie)Greshams "this feelin I have" on Teri De(no5)and for me just outclasses this feelin I have and its the 100%dynamite stomping track titled
"put it out of my mind"
now if the rare soul collectors havent heared this flipside and I know theres a few then believe me its better than the other side.
It was played around the mid/late 70s and it just blows the walls and everything else to pieces.
If you can still handle a fast and frantic and frenetic 1000mph dancer then this is the sound.
Total cardiac arrest treatment.
Cant for the life of me remember the Chester Pipkin dancer.
I t will come to me,hopefully.
mel(the rare soulster)
By Eli (68.162.96.89) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:03 pm: |
Let us not forget Art Rupe's Specialty and Shirley Rupe's Ebb labels.
Even Capitol put out a wealth of r&b records.
Also there were the Vibrations, the Sixteens,
Thurston Harris, Hollywood Flames,
Wynonnie Harris,Esquerita,The Womack Brothers(Valentinos),The Penguins, the Teen Queens, the list goes on
By bad bob (166.70.26.214) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 10:10 pm: |
what about brenyon wood who did gimme a little sign and that ogum bogam song?
By bad bob (166.70.26.214) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 10:11 pm: |
what about brenton wood who did gimme a little sign and that ogumm bogamm song?
By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:05 am: |
I was meaning to mention Capitol.
Bobby Sheen, Alexander Patton, Patrice Holloway and many more.
Yes LA is a big subject.
By Common (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:39 am: |
Hello everyone,
To MelAndThensome: I just saw someone on your list that peaked my curiousity. Is this the same Kell Osbourne that once sang with Paul Williams & Eddie Kendricks when they were The Primes?
Peace!
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:23 am: |
Bob:
Brenton Wood took his stage name from the area of California known as Brentwood.
He recorded for Double Shot Records, an LA-based label.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By MEL&THENSOME (217.14.178.118) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:35 pm: |
Common
I am not 100% sure on that.
And would rather somebody would answer it who is into the early Motown etc scene.
I am sure it is but then again
I wouldnt take my word for it.
sorry I cant be of more help to you
but I am sure somebody will verify it for us one way or the other.
mel.
By MEL&THEN SOME (81.174.192.161) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:49 pm: |
Regards the
Kell(cal?)Osborne thing Common,
did he actually record with the Primes or was he just with the Distant's?
Perhaps he was in both?
This kind of thing for myself personally is best left alone until the experts come on site.
As I say
regards early Motown and related material
I am like a sailor peeing in the wind,
if you get my drift.
cheers
midshipman Mel
By Common (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:15 pm: |
Hello Mel,
LOL! No, Kell wasn't with the Distants. He was with Paul Williams & Eddie Kendricks. There's a pic of him with Paul & Eddie in Mary Wilson's first Supreme book. It was said that Kell did cut some sides after the Primes broke it. I guess we will have to wait & see if someone may know something. But thanks a bunch for the info!
Peace!
By Scratcher (65.238.127.183) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 03:51 pm: |
Kell Osborne recorded a handful of singles on various labels after leaving the Primes but had no success at all. He was a member of the Cavaliers with Williams, Kendricks and Wally Waller in Birmingham and the Primes when they relocated to Cleveland then Detroit.
By Common (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:00 pm: |
Scratcher: Thanks for the info! Is the single that Mel&Thensome mentioned one of the songs that Kell did?
Peace!
By Nish (216.148.244.38) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:48 pm: |
I know Kell supposedly was Calif. bound after the thing with the primes fell thru. So it is highly likely this is "THAT" Kell Osborne.
By MEL&THEN SOME (81.174.192.84) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 05:23 pm: |
Common
told you I was useless with the Motown things or whatever.
Mind you I have been told I am useless at most things(ho ho)
I certainly kept a good Distant from that topic(pun fully intended)
I have that much material and must have read the lot many times over that I even have my dog putting her paws over her mince pies and laughing.
Cheers anyway Common and thanks to Scratcher and Nish for putting things right.
Right then
we have spoken about Kell (a far distant prime )
Osborne slightly so I am now going to try and put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Before my eyes is a Copy of a record on the
L.A. Label called
Glowhill Records(no.702)
The title is
"thats what's happening"
an instrumental cut by
(fanfare if you please)
Kell Osborne's Band!!!!!!!!!!!
Written by
could only be Kell Osborne himself.
Glowhill records
9120 s.western ave.Los Angeles,Calif.
(213)756-2003.
702
Gazzler
Publ.co.
BMI. 45 rpm
side B
Time:2:20.
Instrumental.
anyone heard it
and any relevent info if poss.
Many thanks
Mel(going Kell Osborne mad)