By Lakeview (65.238.91.155) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:47 am:

When Motown moved from Detroit to LA, did they have an actual "Motown" recording studio like in Detroit (well, probably NOT a house), or did they use other recording studios?

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:50 am:

Lakeview:
Motown did open the Hitsville Recording Studios in LA around 1972-73 where they recorded their sessions.
Russ & Ralph Terrana and Dennis Coffey were there during that time. They could offer a more in-depth perspective.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:53 am:

Lakeview,
An existing studio was purchased by Motown in Hollywood. It went through a series of transformations and was known initially as Mowest.

By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.162.3) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

when Motown moved from Detroit, they had there oun studio, it was in Hollywood, it was very modern, I used to go over and hang out with Marvin Gaye, Willie Huch,Frank Wilson, and right across the street they had tennis courts, it was a nice studio, I have a photo of it, when I find it I will post.
WELDON

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 12:14 pm:

While in L.A. recently to see the Funk Brothers, Russ, Teddie and I went to visit he studio now owned by another company. The studio manager was very gracious and showed us around the place. Today it is primarily used for film scoring and such. Weldon, the tennis courts are still there.

By Dennis Coffey (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 06:29 pm:

Hello everyone. The first time I went to MoWest for a session, I started at 10:00am in the morning and bounced back and forth between Studios A and B doing tracks and overdubs and didn't get done until 4:00am the following day. It felt like one long session. After that I did many sessions there.

By Eli (68.162.98.96) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 07:06 pm:

Dennis..
Those are my kind of sessions my friend.
You can bring em back anytime, no problem!!!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 07:14 pm:

Dennis - what was the difference in Studio A as opposed to Studio B?

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 07:55 pm:

Sis,
Size.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:06 pm:

Thanks Ralph. Studio A was the largest?

By Lakeview (65.238.6.46) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:19 pm:

Is this Mowest where the 70's Supremes recorded?
Thanks for all the info. Very intersting!!

By medusa (66.73.14.79) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:46 pm:

Ahhhhhhh, I still say they should've left Motown N Motown...At least they could've given it another name... I mean they stole it from Detroit and took the name 2 LA 2...how ruthless can one B? Y change what was already good.
ok, lets' say SOLAR(sound of los angeles records) had moved 2 Detroit and still have the name SOLAR although it's no longer N LA...
yesss, U doggone right, I'm still upset (after all these years). Sorry, don't mean 2 offend anyone, but I hate 2 say this, I was still quite young at the time, and I'll never 4get it...something special & dear died N Detroit that day, ...thank goodness TSOP(sound of Philly) stayed home..again thanx 4 lettin' me express myself...and yess I know it was business as they call it, still it felt like Detroit was raped. I constantly tell the young people I meet about the REAL Motown and its' celebrities who made it great and I take them 2 the Museum...whew sorry, but I had 2 say it.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:46 pm:

Sis,
The two studios were named Sunset ( facing west ) and Sunrise ( facing east ) but I can't remember which one was the larger studio.

Lakeview: I believe most of the 70's era Supremes recording was done in Detroit at Studio A.

By Eli (68.162.98.96) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:12 pm:

I believe that the desks were Neve 8000 series.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:26 pm:

One thing about Motown, they were brilliant. I love those names "Sunset" and "Sunrise."

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:31 pm:

Your're right Bobby. But not right away. The Neves came a little later.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:38 pm:

Was the building sold also? What happened to the furnishings. Did they have an auction?
Auctions are held here once a year, I think to raise money for the museum. (Not sure) But they list a few things up for auction and the regular residence cannot afford any of the items. Too high.

(When I find the trophy that belonged to one of the Temptations in the late 60's or early 70's, I'm going to put it up for bid. I think it may have been Paul's trophy.)

By Greg C. (207.103.134.185) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:38 pm:

The frustrating aspect about the whole "Mowest" experience was that just about every artist on that label who did an album saw it shelved. That would include Blinky, The Blackberries, Devastating Affair, Sisters Love, GC Cameron, Michelle Aller, and a host of others. The releases were sporadic and no promotion was placed behind them.

Three VERY noteworthy Mowest projects: Syreeta's debut, Thelma Houston's one Mowest album , and Lesley Gore's (yes! that Lesley Gore) Someplace Else Now was serious!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:40 pm:

Does anyone know how many albums were released on Blinky??

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:42 pm:

Sis,
What is funny is when we visited the studio last April, the studios still had those names. The present staff didn't know why they were named what they were until my brother explained it to them. We all had a big laugh at their revelation.

By Eli (68.162.98.96) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:56 pm:

Ralph,
What were the original boards??

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 10:21 pm:

Bobby,
I just called Russ to ask if he remembered what the original boards were. Not much help. He seems to remember some sort of Electrodyne mixer in one of the rooms and some sort of orange colored board in the other studio. As far as the Neves they were in the 8000 area. Perhaps 8080's but again he's not sure. He says he never paid that much attention to whatever he was going to work on because he never read the manuels anyway.

By dvdmike (68.23.176.41) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 10:40 pm:

Before they opened Mowest on Romaine, they did a lot of sessions at The Sound Factory and RCA.

By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:09 am:

The 8078 Neve was the last discreet-transistor
Rupert Neve-designed mixing console. It was a work of art.
Today in the used market these consoles STILL sell for over $200,000.
Allen Sides combined 2 of them for his Record One studio.... A kind of super-console!

http://store4.yimg.com/I/mercenary-audio_1742_4083998

And our friends at MoWest had 3 of them!

By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:47 am:

The Romaine Hitville Studios....

After changing hands a few times after the Motown days, a THX mix-for-film score room was built.
Signet Sound was latest incarnation and was purchased by Hollywood's Soundelux.
In the grand scheme of globalization, ToddAO, Soundelux and 4 MC were all purchased by Liberty Media and are now part of Ascent Media.... A division of Liberty Media.....whew!

From their website.....
"The studios are located in West Hollywood, adjacent to the old Warner Hollywood Studios. Signet Sound, L.A.'s only true "purpose built" music recording and mix-down facility, is formerly the home of the famous Motown "Hitsville" Studios. Signet Sound has an impeccable heritage as Hollywoo's most accommodating music post facility...."

By Bob Olhsson (12.93.84.123) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 01:53 am:

The original orange consoles were Quad-Eights.

The studio's original name was Poppy. It was one of the most lavish studios ever built in LA but it didn't sound good enough to be competitive for the "full dates" it had originally been designed for and soon went out of business. Motown picked it up really cheap and it was fine for our heavy overdubbing style of production.

Prior to that Motown had leased a studio for a year or so that was part of Dave Hassenger's Sound Factory and before that Berry Gordy had been partners in a studio with arranger Don Costa whose nephew Guy would later manage Motown's studios.

By Davie Gordon (212.159.94.2) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:19 am:

Sis,

Number of Blinky albums = 0

Well, there was the duet album with Edwin Starr.

Blinky had albums scheduled for release but for
whatever reason management decided to shelve the
releases.

Davie

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:36 pm:

Davie - I was wondering. A friend of mine and I had a debate about that. I couldn't find any information on albums by Blinky, other than the one she did with Edwin Starr.

By Allen (24.24.196.115) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 04:37 pm:

Ralph,

Sunset was the larger room. That's where we did the original rhythm dates for Teena Marie's "Irons In The Fire" & "It Must Be Magic"albums.

We never liked working in Sunrise because Teena would go across the street and get people out of the park to listen to her album. Sunrise being the smaller provided less room for her guest's. There was an editing suite upstairs. I think it was called "Dawn".

Musicians will get a chuckle off what I'm about to say. When I first started doing recording sessions, I quickly gained respect for this one musician who was on everyone's sessions. No matter who the artist was, this one dude was on everything. Even more than Paulino DeCosta. (sp)(who I'm sure was probably a set of triplets).

I believed that until one day I finally asked someone, "Who is this SMPTE dude? He's on every recording in town." It was then I learned SMPTE was the acronym name of the time code that locked multiple multi track tape machines together. Hahaha!

Ralph, when you get done laughing at me, please tell us what SMPTE stands for? I thought the brother was extra bad cause everyone always saved track 24 for him and they'd leave track 23 blank.

Allen

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:15 pm:

Allen: Sempte is an acronym for Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers. However it is simply known as " Time Code".
An electronic " Pulse " is recorded onto an open track of a multi track recorder. This " pulse " is read by a decoder ( oh man am I getting into technical trouble here...Bob Ohlsson...where are you??? ) and magically ( AH..the operative word ) Synchs another recorder to the first one. So this was pretty cool. You could " stripe" one track of a 16 track and when those tracks were filled synch up the machine to another 16 track and continue recording. the two machines would play together as one so all recorded material matched. The second machine became known as a " slave " because it served the first machine. It was not unusual for some very complex ( and stupid ) recording sessions to be using several slaves.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:30 pm:

And speaking of Allen. I'm sure wll of you have become familiar with his interesting posts. I had begun to suspect Allen had some sort of involvement in the business. We exchanged a couple of e-mails and I realized my feelings were correct. He's a pretty modest guy, but I have decided ( and he may kill me for doing so ) to post his last letter to me. You may have questions of your own to ask this talented guy. He also sent me a picture of him and Jamerson that was taken near the end of Jamerson's life. I forwarded the pic to David. Maybe he will be able to post it.

Allen's letter to me.....
Ralph,
���� I graduated from Mackenzie in 1975 with Jamerson, Jr. My first pro gig was with The Dells in 77. I worked at Ford's MCC in Flat Rock, MI. And would take medical leaves when they had dates. After a couple of years of that, I decided to join James and so many of my contemporaries in Los Angeles.
I was supposed to be living temporarily with James, Jr. But as fate would have it, he was out of town when I arrived. I wound up staying with other friends from Detroit. I think they wanted me there because I had the latest news from home. One of the fellas living there was bassist Ben Adkins. Ben, a graduate of Northwestern High, was the Jackson Five's bassist after Jermaine departed the group.
By living there, I became aware of Teena Marie holding auditions for bass. I auditioned and got the job. After touring with Teena, I auditioned for and got the tour with the Jones Girls. After that came a mixture of recording and touring jobs with Ray Parker, Jr., Cheryl Lynn, more Teena Marie, Rick James and The Stone City Band, The Mary Jane Girls, Jeffrey Osborne, Etta James, New Edition and more.
I co-wrote a couple of ... let me correct that. I was credited with co-writing a couple of Teena Marie's songs. I coproduced with her as well. We were all 21-22 years old. People on Motown's staff thought Mr. Gordy shouldn't let us go in the studio unattended. Once she assured him that she'd be recording with the same musicians that cut the demo's, he agreed to her producing the "Irons In The Fire"LP. He knew we had put together something that was working.
We all learned a lot during that period. I was credited with co-producing her "Naked To The World" CD. I did a lot of what was called arranging on the projects I worked on with her. These days I am concentrating on writing and learning the latest technology.
I never expected I'd have to learn so much non music related material. I use Logic Audio on a Mac dual gig machine. Currently, one of the songs I was credited with co-writing with Teena ... is the theme song on The Hollywood Squares.
I hope that gives you a good idea of my musical career.
If there's anything you'd ever like to know, feel free to ask.
Sincerely,
Allen
Ralph,
���� I graduated from Mackenzie in 1975 with Jamerson, Jr. My first pro gig was with The Dells in 77. I worked at Ford's MCC in Flat Rock, MI. And would take medical leaves when they had dates. After a couple of years of that, I decided to join James and so many of my contemporaries in Los Angeles.
I was supposed to be living temporarily with James, Jr. But as fate would have it, he was out of town when I arrived. I wound up staying with other friends from Detroit. I think they wanted me there because I had the latest news from home. One of the fellas living there was bassist Ben Adkins. Ben, a graduate of Northwestern High, was the Jackson Five's bassist after Jermaine departed the group.
By living there, I became aware of Teena Marie holding auditions for bass. I auditioned and got the job. After touring with Teena, I auditioned for and got the tour with the Jones Girls. After that came a mixture of recording and touring jobs with Ray Parker, Jr., Cheryl Lynn, more Teena Marie, Rick James and The Stone City Band, The Mary Jane Girls, Jeffrey Osborne, Etta James, New Edition and more.
I co-wrote a couple of ... let me correct that. I was credited with co-writing a couple of Teena Marie's songs. I coproduced with her as well. We were all 21-22 years old. People on Motown's staff thought Mr. Gordy shouldn't let us go in the studio unattended. Once she assured him that she'd be recording with the same musicians that cut the demo's, he agreed to her producing the "Irons In The Fire"LP. He knew we had put together something that was working.
We all learned a lot during that period. I was credited with co-producing her "Naked To The World" CD. I did a lot of what was called arranging on the projects I worked on with her. These days I am concentrating on writing and learning the latest technology.
I never expected I'd have to learn so much non music related material. I use Logic Audio on a Mac dual gig machine. Currently, one of the songs I was credited with co-writing with Teena ... is the theme song on The Hollywood Squares.
I hope that gives you a good idea of my musical career.
If there's anything you'd ever like to know, feel free to ask.
Sincerely,
Allen

Ralph,
���� I graduated from Mackenzie in 1975 with Jamerson, Jr. My first pro gig was with The Dells in 77. I worked at Ford's MCC in Flat Rock, MI. And would take medical leaves when they had dates. After a couple of years of that, I decided to join James and so many of my contemporaries in Los Angeles.
I was supposed to be living temporarily with James, Jr. But as fate would have it, he was out of town when I arrived. I wound up staying with other friends from Detroit. I think they wanted me there because I had the latest news from home. One of the fellas living there was bassist Ben Adkins. Ben, a graduate of Northwestern High, was the Jackson Five's bassist after Jermaine departed the group.
By living there, I became aware of Teena Marie holding auditions for bass. I auditioned and got the job. After touring with Teena, I auditioned for and got the tour with the Jones Girls. After that came a mixture of recording and touring jobs with Ray Parker, Jr., Cheryl Lynn, more Teena Marie, Rick James and The Stone City Band, The Mary Jane Girls, Jeffrey Osborne, Etta James, New Edition and more.
I co-wrote a couple of ... let me correct that. I was credited with co-writing a couple of Teena Marie's songs. I coproduced with her as well. We were all 21-22 years old. People on Motown's staff thought Mr. Gordy shouldn't let us go in the studio unattended. Once she assured him that she'd be recording with the same musicians that cut the demo's, he agreed to her producing the "Irons In The Fire"LP. He knew we had put together something that was working.
We all learned a lot during that period. I was credited with co-producing her "Naked To The World" CD. I did a lot of what was called arranging on the projects I worked on with her. These days I am concentrating on writing and learning the latest technology.
I never expected I'd have to learn so much non music related material. I use Logic Audio on a Mac dual gig machine. Currently, one of the songs I was credited with co-writing with Teena ... is the theme song on The Hollywood Squares.
I hope that gives you a good idea of my musical career.
If there's anything you'd ever like to know, feel free to ask.
Sincerely,
Allen

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:32 pm:

I apologize fo the multiple post. Haven't a clue why. But then I have trouble explaining SEMPTE.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

Ralph:
It's all good.
I'm very familiar with Allen McGrier's work with Teena Marie. His bass line intro to Teena's "I Need Your Lovin'" is one of THE most killer grooves ever laid down on tape (even sounds better on CD!). His co-production of "Oooh La La La" is one of the records I played on my radio show during my college years (I still have the promo 45 from Epic Records with the picture sleeve showing a sultry Lady Tee!).

Allen - Keep up the posts & the stories!

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By boynextdoor (65.238.58.35) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 08:50 pm:

Who were the Blackberries and what did they sing?

By Eli (68.162.96.89) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:05 pm:

Were the Blackberries and the Andantes one and the same??

By Scratcher (65.238.127.90) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:20 pm:

No, I believe the Blackberries originated from the Mirettes.

By Eli (68.162.96.89) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:50 pm:

Allen..Eli here!

Your smpte story reminds me of several incidents down in Philly.

In one instance I co wrote a song with a certain female idividual for a project.
We affixed our names to the standard songwriters and several days later he comes into the control room waving the contract in my face and ranting about people of "one race" always stealing from people of the "other race."

Then he says, "Yo Eli, I thought that me and you was down on this tune"!!
I said that yes that is true.
He then proceeded to rant" and ask me, who is this HENRY FOX "mo********er???" His name is on here too!!
So I explained that HARRY FOX is an organization who looks after your mechanicals.
He than proceeded to say "there aint nothin wrong with my f****n car, i want my money!!!!"

The other incident was where I happened to come into the control room one day and I noticed that the same person had all the drums panned all the way left, the bass all the way right, guitars all the way left, keys all the way right.
So I asked him why he had the instruments panned that way.
So then he proceeds to tell me
"man, what the f**k do you know you white mm********er. I was hangin in New York with Nile Rodgers and he told me that you got to have SEPARATION on your tunes!!

By Treena (208.8.159.222) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 10:59 pm:

When Motown moved from Detroit to LA, did they have an actual "Motown" recording studio like in Detroit (well, probably NOT a house), or did they use other recording studios?

Heres what I know Motown recorded in MANY studios in LA: Armin Steiner's atop a 3-car garage was the
first one, then others like Gold Star,
Bob Ross Studios, CBS, Sunset Sound, a few others and ending in RCA where the Diana
Ross things, Ain't No Mountain High Enough...........TTG studios
Motown had 2 floors of suites of offices in the Sunset Vine Tower building, south-east
corner of Sunset and Vine, in 1962.

I am sure there is more to this considering how messed up the record keeping of motowns buisness is !

By dvdmike (68.72.110.72) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 11:46 pm:

The Blackberries were L.A. based and consisted of Sherell Atwood, Merry Clayton, Venetta Fields, Delores Hall, Clydie King, Shirlie Matthews, Ginger Schackne and Lorna Willard. The Andantes were all Detroit.

By Treena (208.8.159.222) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 11:51 pm:

Who are the musicians for the Blackberries?

By BassLand (67.115.75.70) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:41 am:

Ralph,

Would you please tell us (If you or your brother Russ know) where "Aint No Moauntain High Enough" by Diana Ross was recorded?

By Treena (208.8.159.222) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:38 am:

Ralph or Eli, can you tell me about Ami Hadani, and his work with the 4 tops...West coast Motown????

By Treena (208.8.159.222) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:51 am:

BassLand, the East Coast musicians haven't a clue as to what was happening on the west coast, they were to busy doing their recording dates.
Why did Motown have 2 floors of suites of offices out here in LA since 1962? For demo recordings? Hahahaha. Even the fine Marc Gordon met his soon-to-be bride working as a secretary there at Motown-LA (Sunset Towers building which was
a BUSTLING PLACE!)....before she was one of the Fifth Dimension.

By Sue (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 08:02 am:

Yes Ralph has told us about the "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" session before, hopefully he'll reprise that.

By BassLand (64.169.104.175) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:01 am:

Treena, Your Carol Kaye motives are showing. In the West Coast Motown thread on this very board you tried to post as two different people Treena and Common to try to forward your supposition. My guess is it aint gonna fly here.

By BassLand (64.169.104.175) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:06 am:

Make that the Hal Davis thread. Soulful Detroit this person has written me and others trying to forward the notion that Carol Kaye should be given some of the credit for music that rightfully belongs to The Funk Brothers.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:01 am:

OK Nuff said. No more Carol Kaye conversation please.

By BassLand (64.169.104.175) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:20 am:

If any of the regulars here especially Ralph or David have a problem with me exposing the BS quotion of posts like Treena's please let me know and I will stay out of any of the threads where she or others try to forward the CK line as I am well aware of the methods and themes they use to try and forward their agenda which I believe to be allowing interlopers to re-write the Motown history to satisfy their skewed view of what happened.

If she state that ANMHE (Aint No Mountain....) was recorded in California then the next breath might bring out that "CK played bass on it and not Jamerson" BS. I personally resent the attempt at SD being manipulated by the Kaye camp.
There are other places on the net that Treena for one has tried to establish the California bassist with the work done by the fine musicians in Detroit. If she gets away with making those statements here unchallanged she will surely go to other places on the net and use SD as an example of how her flawed logic should be accepted.
IMO her incorrect views of the creators of these hit records that will live long after we are gone if we allow them to.

It is History not HER story.

BL

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:25 am:

Treena needs to get a serious clue and a life.
That's all I'm gonna say about this matter.
Kevin Goins -KevGo

By BassLand (64.169.104.175) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:25 am:

Our post crossed and I get your message now I will get the chance to see if you can curb Treena's assetions.

BTW Ralph to your knowlege, where was Ain't No Mountain High Enough by Diana Ross recorded further who were the musicans?

By padgburyman (195.93.50.10) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:26 am:

Amen to that!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

OK Gang,
Once and for all....Aso I think the question is asked on another thread. " Ain't No Mountain High " is pure Detroit. In fact my brother reminded me how Harry Balk called us into his office just to hear the rhythm track, before anything was completed on it. At that time Harry was so excited by it that he predicted a big hit with the song. We're not sure about the bass player. It was either Jamerson or Babbtt but it was NOT ( got it??? NOT!!!! ) CK. Now let's please drop this subject.

By stephanie (64.63.221.133) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:35 pm:

My brother played bass on Feel the Need behind the Detroit Emeralds when they performed live but he did NOT play on the record. When I was a little girl I used to tell people he played on the record to make him a star!!!
Stephanie

By Treena (208.8.159.205) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:31 pm:

Ralph even you are not "SURE" of the bass player, I asked who produced the song, saying I believe it was Hal Davis.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:33 pm:

Oh...sorry Treena. The producers were Ashford and Simpson.

By Treena (208.8.159.205) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:50 pm:

Thanks Ralph, I never knew this! I learn something new everyday!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:56 pm:

That's why we are all here Treena.

By Treena (208.8.159.205) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 04:58 pm:

Ralph you are a sweet heart with so much knowledge, Thank you for sharing with me!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 05:05 pm:

Well as far as knowledge goes Treena, maybe I have more than some but certainly not as much as others here. Believe me I have benifited from the forum members as much as anyone. Thanks for the kind words though. you are most welcome.

By Treena (208.8.159.205) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 07:39 pm:

BTW, BassLand I think you are paranoid!

By BassLand (64.169.104.175) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 09:58 pm:

Well It sounds like you are calling me out for some reason. I would love to have you eloquently elaborate on what you see as this "paranoia". This should be interesting and you might even let SD know where you got your degree. I have to consider the source and believe me I don't consider it very credible. Now, lets hear your detailed analysis...

By Treena (208.8.159.214) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

BassLand you are doing the calling, I am doing the questions and if you don't like my questions don't respond! Thats easy enough for you to understand isn't it?

By Treena (208.8.159.214) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:41 pm:

BassLand,
I attended UCB and then UCSF, I have a masters degree in music and psychology.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 10:57 pm:

OK, you guys care to put this little fire out before it flares? I need a rest.

By Treena (208.8.159.214) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:20 pm:

Ralph I am here to ask questions and get answers and so far I am, BassLand is trying to turn my questions into his own private agenda, just read his paranoid posts!

He is coming in behind me and posting his remarks not the other way around! I made a promise to you and I intend to keep my word!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:31 pm:

OK Treena. I think part of this problem arose on the " Ain't No Mountain " question. That has been resolved so I am assuming this is also. Right Bassland??

By Chad (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 11:45 pm:

You must be some babe Treena to have Bassland stalking you like this.

By Treena (208.8.159.214) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 12:45 am:

Chad, I am opinionated just like everyone else! Thanks for the compliment ...almost!

By BassLand (64.169.104.175) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 03:22 am:

Chad, I have been a member of SD (as well as Talk Bass) long before Treena came here so if anyone is stalking... it ain't me. BTW she wrote (via private email) to me first and I eventually asked her not to do so again.

Yes Ralph, I never had any doubt who was involved with that recording and like you said it has been resolved, no problem. What I said about a double persona on SD was a fact I see Treena was unable to explain her "paranoia" remark so I will just let that slide. Again you have to consider the source... I still consider it armchair psychology. Just my opinion.

BL

By Allen (24.24.196.115) on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 08:28 am:

BTW,

We use to blow those Urie sp. monitors up regularly. I think we're the reason they put fuses on them.

: )

Allen

By JSmith (212.39.231.20) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:06 am:

Before Motown relocated to LA (back in the 60's), were any (non demo) tracks cut in the city by producers such as Frank Wilson.
If so, what studios were used, the same ones as Motown used immediately after their move ??
ALSO......were the Detroit studio musicians all offered relocation packages to enable them to remain as major contributors on future recordings for the company or were they just left to make their own decision (& arrangements) as to whether they should also relocate to LA.

By BassLand (64.165.226.82) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:23 am:

I believe the official re-location was 1972. I believe I remember some of the Funk Brothers did not like CA while others (Robert White, Bongo Brown and of course Jamerson) did move here.

By BassLand (64.165.226.82) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:26 am:

What I ment to say was "I believe I remember reading in SITSOM (the book about Jamerson)that some of the Funks did move here and did not like LA, while others... "

By Larry (68.164.128.83) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:49 am:

Ralph,

Allen McGrier is also featured on (as are many wonderful bassists) Dr. Lick's (Alan Slutsky) "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" book and CD available at your favorite local and online stores! Allen? Yeah he's ok

Amazon

Also, I found this letter by Alan Slutsky on the web:
Link

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 06:27 am:

Larry...thanks for posting that link...it was very informative, and I hope that it clears up any doubt once and for all about this debate(it does for me, not that I really needed confirmation...I'm with Jamerson, all the way).

I hope more people get to read it...maybe you could start another thread with that link. I'm not trying to start any more huge debates or anything, I just think more people who haven't already read it should read it.

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:12 am:

Ralph

I just realised that I did not upload that pic with Allen and James.

Can you send again.

Thanks
David

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 09:57 am:

David,
I can't seem to locate the picture on my computer. I e-mailed Allen asking him to forward the pic directly to you.

By Vonnie (205.188.209.109) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 09:59 am:

Larry

Thanks for the link. The truth shall set you free!

Vonnie

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 10:04 am:

The CK debate has grown extremely tiring and has caused problems here on the forum. It seems to me that the link posted by long time forum member Larry Rott is the difinitive story regarding this silly issue. Let's hope this ends the debate once and for all.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 12:06 pm:

Amen, Ralph.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 01:18 pm:

"Why did Motown have 2 floors of suites of offices out here in LA since 1962? "

This looks like complete tosh - in '62 I doubt
Motown had the equivalent amount of office space
in Detroit let alone have the finances to
support any other branches. They hadn't even
opened their New York office in '62.

Sorry to add anything else to this saga but unless
somebody can show me a 1962 Los Angeles Yellow
Pages showing a Motown office I'm putting this
down to somebody's hobbyhorse getting in the
way of facts.

Davie

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 01:23 pm:

A small Motown West Coast query -

Raynoma Singleton's book has an extensive list of
West Coast staffers including an engineer named
Tom Flye. Does anybody know if this is the guy who
was in late sixties band Lothar and The Hand People ? (probably the only band to feature a
theremin as a lead instrument)

Davie (wishing he still had the "Space Hymn"
album so he could listen again to their version
of "Heatwave")

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 01:57 pm:

Davie,
You're absolutely correct. Motown's office facility did not begin to expand until the early 70's when it became apparent that the company relocation was imminent. Also, to Bassland, the official move ( when Detroit facility doors were actually closed ) was the spring of 75. Therefore, I use 1975 as the official date that Motown relocated to the West Coast.

By BassLand (67.115.75.110) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:03 pm:

Ralph,

Thank you for the correction. I guess I was thinking of when they moved to L.A. while Detroit was still running. Was that in 1972?

BL

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:29 pm:

Yes Bob. Motown was in L.A. at that time ( 1972 ) but it was also at this time that Detroit was cranking out the hits under the direction of Harry Balk.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 03:00 pm:

Thanks to Allen for this pic of James Jamerson and himself.

By BassLand (67.115.75.110) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

Ralph,

We talk about the "dates" involved a lot but I was curious what you thought was the last record that would be considered a Detroit product even though Berry had gone to Hollywood? To me that would truly mark the end of an era.

BL

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 03:07 pm:

I think the archives hold the answer to that question.

Possibly Mike McLean posted it.

I think it was established that there was something after "Machine Gun". It was, however, very close to being the last.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 04:21 pm:

Allen:
A perfect picture of two bass-masters!

Thanks for sharing that with us.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Dennis Coffey (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:37 pm:

Hello everyone. Great picture of my old friend Jamerson. After I had been living in LA for about a year in the seventies, James called me and said he and the family were coming over to visit at 6:00pm. I think they must have gotten lost because they didn't make it until 10:00pm. It was still great to see him and his family. I used James on my Instant Coffey album. He was still jammin'. I moved out to LA to do sessions and to do a movie. I did plenty of sessions and a movie and TV shows too. I was also an artist and staff producer for Clarence Avant and Sussex Records. I was happy to play for Motown too but they had nothing to do with me moving out to the coast. I learned a long time ago, you have to look out for yourself. That's just life.

By JSmith (212.39.231.20) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 06:46 am:

So does anyone know if the likes of Frank Wilson cut any (non demo) tracks on Motown artists in LA in the 60's or were the first released things cut for the company in LA the tracks released on the MoWest label.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 09:28 am:

I'm quite certain that in the 60's Motown's top producers ( Frank Wilson, Norman Whitfield, Clay McMurray, Johnny Bristol, Hank Cosby etc. ) were recording exclusively at the Detroit facilities.

By Allen (24.24.196.115) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

Kev,

When I was a kid growing up in Detroit, it never crossed my mind that one day I'd grow up and be allowed to live out this fantasy I now call my life.

My entrée' into music was the trumpet. Arguably the most difficult instrument to master. I came to the conclusion the trumpet was not to be the instrument of my journey.

Who'd a thunk I'd meet the son of the greatest bassist in the world. And then the entire family. Annie and Pops performed a quick study of me and I was in no time given refrigerator privileges.

Thanks for the kind words, but I my friend am no master of the bass. I can do a few things sufficiently and get a message across. All of the Detroit bassist's in my generation were tremendously influenced by Pops. Of all of us, I am the least technically proficient.

I say this with no tongue in cheek / self martyrdom portrayal. Listen to these names. Nathan Watts, James Jamerson Jr, Ralph Armstrong, Byron Miller, Reggie McBride, Tony Newton, Michael Henderson, Roderick (Peanut) Chandler, Deon Estes, Ben Adkins, Lamont Johnson, etc. Every last one of the above mentioned can whip me playing with one hand tied... well you know.

I was just fortunate to grow up in a city where Motown was on the radio 24/7. I switched to bass and a door opened for me. I could now make a sufficient musical statement to warrant a degree of interest.

One thing I have in common with the above-mentioned gentlemen. (besides suddenly coming into transistor radio's in late July of 1967) ... ; -) We all know how to do something we call the "D DROP". And we all got it from Pops. And although he didn't get to see how things are now, he knew that we all loved and respected him immensely.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

Allen:
Thanks for the post and sharing your thoughts. You're proof that talent and luck can be a powerful combination.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Allen (24.24.196.115) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 05:02 pm:

I know Tom Flye,

He engineered a lot of Rick James' records. Including "Street Songs" and The Mary Jane Girls "All Night Long". Rick didn't like doing his basic tracks at Hitsville West. He didn't want company brass snoopin around puttin their fifty-cent in.

Everyone would migrate up to Sausalito and we'd work in the unHollywood environs of Marin County. The migration was very interesting. Some of us flew. Some drove. Some even took the dog...aka Greyhound.

Tom Flye has worked with many great Bay Area Artist'. From Tower Of Power to Sly and The Family Stone. The last I heard from him, he was working with George Lucas Entertainment.

We never got a chance to talk about his career as an artist. He was great to work with. Patient and giving.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:49 am:

Hi Allen, thanks for the info. on Tom Flye's
career. Ask him about Lothar and the Hand People
the next time you're talking - I'm sure there's a
whole bunch of strange stories there.

One interesting Motown connection is that Margouleff and Cecil (TONTO's Expanding Head Band)
who worked with Stevie Wonder when he was learning
how to use synthesisers were the producers for
the second Hand People album.

Just had a look at Allmusic.com which has a list
of records he worked on - Ghod, what a career !
and to think I was playing Jefferson Starship's
"Windows of Heaven" last week :-)

here's the link

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=MISS70307030942&sql=R76684#APPEAR

Davie