By Vonnie (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:18 pm:| By Vonnie (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:18 pm: |
I'm sick and tired of all you men bitching!! It is always the men who are bailing out or threatning to bail out on this forum. The ladies have had disputes but they have b*lls, they never threaten to leave. Everyone has opinons just like asses, we all have one. Just because a person does not like what is posted, they should be able to express their opinon without denigrating the person whose post they are replying to and vice versa.
I have taken exception to my own mates post and he also was upset and wanted to abandon the forum, come on guys grow up, don't let us ladies show you up. This forum has room for all sort of opinons and ideas, we should be able to all get along. Cut the crap guys! Who the man!
V, Kev, David and whoever else has a problem with my post, remember I CAN TAKE IT LIKE A MAN.
Vonnie
| By Vickie (198.81.26.231) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:22 pm: |
Girl Power Vonnie!!
| By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:32 pm: |
You go girlfriend! YOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!
Your Sista,J.
| By Nish (66.119.33.170) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:36 pm: |
MOXIE!!! TONS AND TONS OF MOXIE! Enough for all the angels (and then some - to borrow off of mel for a minute!). I'm with you all the way.
| By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 03:46 am: |
Hi Vonnie
You need some time behind the keyboard of this particular computer.
Then you'll understand why I'm pissed off.
David
| By dvdmike (68.72.101.158) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 05:36 am: |
Relax children! That means the women as well as the men. It ain't that serious!
| By Allen (24.24.196.115) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 06:28 am: |
About Women,
It has long been one of my deepest beliefs that women are in many ways superior to men. In only a few categories can the opposite be said.
Most men contend these facts and miss out on understanding and appreciating women and their strengths. I will list a few later.
I must now state a fact that has little to do with logic and more with ... as the 4 Tops so eloquently put it "It's The Way Nature Planned It?.
It takes a wise woman to realize even though she is the stronger gender, it's to her benefit that he think himself the stronger and the wiser.
And she must carry out said mission without the mans knowledge. How's that for stealth?
Overt Strengths: Women speak an average of 10.000 words p/day. Men only average 2,000.
Giving women greater communication skills from the get go.
Women's pain threshold (constant pain without cessation) is several times greater. As proven by men�s inability to grasp the concept of labor and childbirth.
Women's sexual capacity far exceeding what most men consider necessary. (most being a key word there). nuff said!
Therefore, I never argue with women. My Grandfather told me it only serves to make you look more foolish than you normally appear.
I'm not leaving.
Allen
| By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 06:36 am: |
Allen
It is true that women are superior to men, your Grandfather was a smart guy.
David
| By dvdmike (65.208.234.61) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 07:08 am: |
In the human element, there is no superiority. Men and women have many differences, but that is not to say either is better than the other. Both sides have their beauty and both sides have their problems. Both sides can be their own worst enemy. And both sides can exhibit an ugly arrogance when it comes to self-importance and delusions of "superiority." I get so sick of that nonsense that it ain't funny. Grow up brothas and grow up sistas!!
| By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:24 am: |
I am deeply offended about these statements demeaning my gender. I am leaving the forum...
... to go get a Pepsi. I'll be back in five minutes. 
Regards,
Ken
| By medusa9e2003 (66.73.8.126) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:25 am: |
Now come on ladies..we know it's true that Men R physically stronger than we R...(then again, I have this thing 4 men). Vonnie, U R absolutely correct, is this some kind of Macho Macho Man thing or what? and it's true, I've yet 2 hear a lady of the Forum saying she's backing out...but agian, I kinda understand if David was p---d off about something. David doesn't appear 2 B the kind of Man that's petty and someone must've really p----d him off 4 real this time. I know it will work itself out and whatever it is, I hope it will B fixed once & 4 all.
P.S. Will the REAL MEN take your places!!! (just kidding)
| By Question (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:33 am: |
If women are superior to men as some of you "libbers" falsely claim then how come no female has ever been the President of the United States?
| By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:03 am: |
Question,
I am going to have to go with:
Because they are smart enough to know better than to take that job.
(It could also have something to do with the 130+ odd years it took before the nineteenth amendment of the US Constitution explicitly guaranteed women the right to vote, too, but what do I know, I'm just a man.)
Regards,
Ken
| By Vonnie (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:20 am: |
OPEN LETTER TO ALL CONCERNED
DAVID: First of all let me Thank You and Lowell for visualizing, creating and maintaining this wonderful site. I have met so many soulful and informative persons because of your vision. I have learned so much because of the input of all persons who have honored us with their wisdom and soulful contributions. Motown is the original concept of this forum, but all regions and genres of soul and non-soul music has been discussed and evolved from this site. The mind is a sponge and this is an expanding experience for us all.
What I posted above "MACHO MEN OF SOULFUL DETROIT"
was to get the attention of all those involved in this family tiff. You mentioned that you were "pissed off", my mother always told me "it is better to be "pissed off" than to be "pissed on". If I do not like a particular genre, album or song, will I be castigated? Let's remember that this site is more than the sum of it's parts.
KEV GO, Please keep those posts coming. I love reading the informative info posted by you. It is my daily fix, who needs drugs when I can get high on your posts. JB said "Please, Please", that is what I am saying to you.
Vandelron, "YOUR OPINION" was "h(ear)tfelt" and honest, and that is what we strive for on this forum. Just like all things in life there are going to be differences, musical differences are no different. Let's get back to what this forum is about "THE MUSIC" and that includes all types.
ADDENDUM: All of you know that my soul mate is Bobby Eli, and his career has only been soul music.
Well here is our difference, I love classical music and I love Frankie Avalon, Fabian, Bobby Rydell, Paul Anka. NEED I SAY MORE!
Vonnie
| By Vonnie (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:31 am: |
Dear Question,
Let me preface this by saying implicitly this is not meant to be disrespectful. If your dear mom is still living, the question you asked could be best answered by her.
Vonnie
| By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:41 am: |
Question; RE: White House... Its not about brains its about politics and the unfair exclusion of certain groups. Not a argument just a fact.
Livonia Ken & Allen; Wise men you two, thank you.
Kev-Go; My brother & Felix supporter, you better not go nowhere we need informative music buffs representing N.Y. where it all began! (smile, my brother). Having that in common I feel a special bond with you.
S.S.
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 12:32 pm: |
THINK I"LL JUST "PACE IN THE BUSHES" ON THIS ONE!!!...THESE GIRLS ARE DOING JUST FINE BY THEMSELVES!!!...STU(ONE PROUD "ANGEL DADDY)BASS
| By stephanie (64.63.221.102) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 12:37 pm: |
We angels all need to stick together!!! Thank you so much Vonnie and tell your mate to keep his mind and his soul and body and heart right here on the Forum. If he was my mate I wouldnt dare let him leave ME or the FORUM!!!! I say all the men and women stay and lets just be mindful of each other thats all and just ignore what upsets someone....
Stephanie
A Democratic STUBASS ANGEL
| By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 12:55 pm: |
Vonnie:
Damn...if my posts are like "drug fixes" maybe I should change my name to Priest (see "Superfly").
SoulSister:
Don't worry, I ain't going nowhere!
David Meikle:
As the Contours once sang, "Just A Little Misunderstanding." I hold no grudges - I hope you will do the same.
Now, let's all work together to keep soul music alive.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
| By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 02:16 pm: |
Stubass; Thanks for giving us angels your vote of confidence. I don't care what no one says (referring to a post on the other thread), its better to share love with one another, its not about anyone needing validation from someone else, its about exchanging the best things not being coldblooded or negative!
Kev-Go; Glad your hangin' Bro!
David M.; I hope you will be here too, sharing the possitive knowledge you have about Northern Soul, we, that don't know, would like to learn more. Thanks to you & Lowell for this great site!
S.S.
| By Julian (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 02:38 pm: |
I go away for a minute and all hell breaks loose!
| By fayette (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 03:21 pm: |
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
what went on??????????????????????
| By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.24) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 03:25 pm: |
Let it lie.
mel.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.24) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 03:27 pm: |
in case that is mis-interpreted
let the subject drop.
| By brown8644 (166.107.158.153) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 05:09 pm: |
Hey Vonnie well said. Everyday before I go to bed
and in the morning I get up and check the SD forum because I enjoy the information the everyone passes on to the forum. I feel as if I've found another family my music family in one sense but also a family of friend who I never meet but I look forward to the posts that everyone contributes. Folks for me it's a great joy to come to the forum and I enjoy all of you. It's ok that we don't agree on everything, but this is something that important to us all, I've been here for the last year and if would be a lost if any of you leave. I don't know how it is for everyone else but I'm truly glad I found this forum and if anyone is gone then that one to many. This is something special lets not forget that. Enjoying you'll.
| By fayette (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 06:28 pm: |
i'm understand the angelic one(vonnie)all
so well. what she is saying if we women
can stay in this forum and not let what
anyone say make us leave i know you men can.
when i first came in this room i learned
there are certain things you can't say(it
should not be that way). 1. never get in a
diana ross and mary wilson debate.2.never
mention grace jones to stubass.3.never ask
why female background singers need to back
ground for male groups. anyway you guys
do what you have to do, but don't let nobody
make and decisions for you.(kevo) i know
you too much of a man for that.
ps imma stay til i'm good and ready,
ELITE ANGEL
fayette
| By Eli (68.162.98.96) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 07:03 pm: |
Fayette,
The reason that Philly and Detroit used female singers was for artistic production values and not to diminish the talent of the males.
In Philly it was part of the sound that we developed and it caught on so we kept doing it . The blend was so sweet that we just could not resist using the combination of the guys and the gals.
| By fayette (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 07:28 pm: |
eli from a consumer point of view it
could be thought of as deception.on the
outside i think i may be buying a stylistic
album when actually it is russell thompson
and company.it may be a good combination
but i still puzzles me.
| By medusa9e2003 (66.73.14.79) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 08:08 pm: |
Thanx Vonnie & Everyone,
I'm glad everyone is back 2 normal...now, coming from a regular person, "Lets' Keep It 2gether"
Luv U all!...........medusa9e2003
| By Eli (68.162.98.96) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:02 pm: |
Fayette,
Thats the way that it was , take t or leave it,
It was NOT deception.
Most of the groups in Philly were not good enough to do their own backing vocals so we had to supplement them.
Studio singing is an artform and it takes a lot practice to sing with the kind of dynamics which are appropriate for the studio.
If you were to hear the groups themselves doing the harmony parts you would not have bought the stuff for obvious reasons.
This is not meant out disrespect to the acts involved, but here is a test for you and you will see what I mean.
Now, listen closely.
Put on Youre a big girl now by the Stylistics and then put on You make me feel brand new compare the two.
Next put on Spell by Blue Magic aand then put on Sideshow, then you be the judge.
Nuff said!!
| By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 10:40 pm: |
did i hear the name *GRACE JONES*!!!...WAAAAAT UP WITH THAT!!!...HEY ALL...NICE THOUGHTS FAYETTE...BUT I GUESS THIS WHOLE THING JUST GOES TO PROVE THE POINT THAT MEN GET "PMS" TOO!!!...STU(NOT THAT TIME OF THE MONTH)BASS
| By fayette (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 10:41 pm: |
my point exactly eli. the reason not to bring
that up. i've heard the stylistic and
blue magic in person. they did not sound bad
the band did it was a lil slow.i understand
that you guys want precission,because money
is riding on it. but that was my opinion.
i have probably every album both groups
have done. when i went to purchase that
album in the 70's i thought that the group
was actually doing all vocals. didn't know
til later they did not. in my teen age years
i thought it was deception. but that's just
my opinion, maybe others didn't feel that way at all.
| By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:06 pm: |
NOT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT...BUT ON THE MUSICAL SIDE...I ATTENDED AN "ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA" CONCERT AT THE SILVERDOME IN THE 70'S!!!...THAT CONCERT EVENTUALLY GOT A LOT OF PUBLICITY...NOT ALL OF IT GOOD...BECAUSE "ELO" WAS APPARENTLY ACCOMPANIED BY A RECORDED MUSIC TRACK...AS IF ALL THOSE ELECTRIC STRINGS WEREN'T ENOUGH!!!...IT TURNED INTO A BIG BRUHAHA...WITH CONCERTGOERS SUING TO GET THEIR ADMISSION BACK...ALLEGING FRAUD AND STUFF LIKE THAT!!!...I HAPPENED TO ENJOY THE CONCERT...AND WASN'T REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE RECORDED TRACK...UNTIL THE POST CONCERT PUBLICITY MACHINE GOT INTO GEAR!!!...STU
| By Eli (151.197.39.130) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:48 am: |
Fayette,
As I have previously stated, singing live and in the studio are like apples and oranges.
Just because a group "sounds good" live does not mean that it will translate well, if at all in the studio.
There was an incident once where I produced an album I believe their fourth,on a very well known act whereby I had to use the studio singers.
Well, the act were feeling their oats by then and without telling anyone booked time in the studio and replaced the vocals with their own.
Needless to say it was awful and the company had to put out more money for me to go back in and replace the awful vocals with the session people again.
Dont forget that I am a record producer, and from what they tell me , a very good one so take what I tell you for face value and appreciate it for what its worth.
By the way, did you do the comparison test?
In each instance, the first song were the real group and the second were the session singers.
If you havent done so, listenCLOSELY and then you be the judge and tell me why we have to use studio singers.
Its about selling records.
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 10:55 am: |
HEY FAYETTE!!!...TRUE...IT IS WIDESPREAD INDUSTRY PRACTICE TO USE SINGERS OTHER THAN THE FOUR OR FIVE MEMBERS OF A PARTICULAR GROUP ON A RECORDING!!!...MY ONLY BEEF WOULD BE *NOT* GIVING CREDIT ON THE ALBUM COVER TO THOSE NON-GROUP SINGERS WHO APPEARED ON A GIVEN TRACK!!!...ISN'T THAT WHAT MILLI-VANILLI AND RECENTLY JAYSON BLAIR WENT DOWN FOR...NOT GIVING CREDIT TO THE ORIGINATOR OF THE WORK...SAME STANDARDS SHOULD HOLD TRUE IN THE RECORDING INDUSTRY AS IN THE FIELD JOURNALISM!!!...STUBASS
| By Eli (151.197.39.130) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 11:17 am: |
In Philly we always gave credit to the studio singers.
| By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 11:29 am: |
Stu:
Take a look at the back covers of the Spinners' Atlantic albums that were produced by Thom Bell - the background singers were listed. It was Atlantic's policy to list session musicians.
Fayette:
My sister-in-law feels the same way you do about the "deception" thing. Yet, as I and my brother (her husband) tried to explain, session recording was not cheap and a producer couldn't spend time with a musician or musicians who didn't have the studio chops.
My friend Lillo Thomas was a session singer long before he recorded his first album on Capitol. He was known in the music circles as one of the few singers who could nail his part on the first take. This discipline came in handy when he cut his three albums - he was able to cut his parts with no problem, which meant he could focus more on the overall production of his work.
Let me give you a final example - remember the Box Tops' #1 hit "The Letter" ("...give me a ticket for an aeroplane..."). The original band played on the session and it took over 50 takes for them to get the right one! Yes, the song went to #1 but from that moment on, their producers Dan Penn & Chips Moman used studio musicians on their recordings and only brought in the band members to play certain parts (lead singer Alex Chilton was the only member who attended all sessions).
Kevin Goins - KevGo
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:12 pm: |
ONCE AGAIN...THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT KEVGO!!!...HEY VONNIE!!!...REGARDING YOUR ORIGINAL POST HERE...WE HAVE AN EXPRESSION IN THE AUTOMOBILE BUSINESS..."THERE'S A BUCKET SEAT FOR EVERY A-HOLE"!!!...CHEERS!!!...STUBASS
| By Scratcher (65.238.127.234) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:17 pm: |
Tracy Mitchell, the O'Jays roadie/choreographer, name was never listed on the Ship Ahoy album as one of the background vocalists on "When The World's At Peace"; but in general the background singers on Philly International sessions were noted; not so for other labels.
| By Scratcher (65.238.127.234) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:27 pm: |
Correction: "When the world's at Peace" was on the O'Jays first LP for Philly Int'l.
| By Eli (151.197.39.130) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:28 pm: |
Thanks Kev.
Yes fayette and Stu, studio time was and is expensive and we do not have the time nor the patience for people to learn their parts.
Even with all of the rehearsal in the world it just doesnt work.
As I have previously mentioned, and I will reiterate, listen to Youre a big girl now by the Stylistics which are the "real" group and then put on You make me feel brand new or You are everything then you be the judge.
Then put on Spell by Blue magic "real group" , then put on Sideshow, or Three ring circus then you be the judge.
Time is money!!!
| By fayette (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 05:56 pm: |
guy's all i'm saying is there is a such thing
as record buyers. what's the purpose for
the group if they can't do recording????
i understand all the money and expertise
is riding on this product,and it may even
sound better,when i used the word deceptive
is that the group's photos is on the cover,why when they did no background vocals,and eli
that was a rather snide remark in saying take
it or leave it.and uncalled for.i only voiced
an opinion,and that is what i thought this forum
is about.
| By dvdmike (68.72.111.85) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:01 pm: |
Scratcher, "When The World's At Peace" was on "Ship Ahoy", The O'Jays' third album for P.I.R. "Back Stabbers" was the first and the reissue of "The O'Jays In Philadelphia" was the second.
| By Scratcher (65.238.127.161) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:35 pm: |
I get the two LP's confused DvdMike, whatever one Tracy Mitchell (William Powell's relative) was in the background on "When the World's At Peace." Gamble wanted a lot of voices on the track.
| By stephanie (64.63.221.34) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:42 pm: |
Eli
In your honest opinion (and Im sure you are familiar with the work of the Supremes)..do you think that they should have used Mary and Cindy more. I love the work of the Andantes and I thought all parties involved did a great job on Love Child but when it comes to some of the other songs I think they could have used Mary and Cindy after Flo left the group. Im really appalled at the fact that some songs by the Vandellas were other people I think those girls had vocal chops that matched Martha step by step. I realize that money and studio time is important but if the singers are THERE and are available what is the beef? Dont get me wrong I understood your posting but in the case of the women and I know Phil Spector was notorius for this if they like the sounds of the singers but want to augment it why dont they double track it or is THAT more expensive.
I remember when some of the Temps were mad at Norman Whitfield because on the Song For You Album some of them felt like it was the Dennis Edwards show and felt that they should have had more leads. I understand this but Dennis did have a sound and he wanted hits and he got them but in the case of the Vandellas I just dont see it. IMO I would think double tracking would be less expensive or is it less expensive to have the singers there? I think a great example of women in the studio is on The Spinners Then Came You with Dionne Warwick that sweet song did have a great sound with women on it. I hope that some of the male groups who had female singers didnt feel too bad about this. The Four Tops have always credited the Andantes for making them sound great especially on Dont Ask the Lonely!!!
I swear those Tops dont complain about anything at all they are so greatful for Motown and everything..
Thanks for your input..
Stephanie
| By Scratcher (65.238.127.161) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 06:43 pm: |
You raise a good point Fayette. I was always surprised at all the fuss about Milli Vanili when the practice was commonplace. I guess because MV won a Grammy. Singers like Bobby Day and others would hang out at the LA studios waiting for somebody to flub their part or not get it fast enough. Producers were on the clock; they had to get it done.
| By fayette (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 07:19 pm: |
exactly scratcher it seems to me that they
are cd cover models instead of artist.and money
is always the bottom line but they gotta remember
there is a buying public out there. now i'm not
going to disrupt ms vonnie's thread.ms vonnie
good thread you got going(arch angel of mercy)
| By Eli (68.162.96.89) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 07:36 pm: |
Fayette,
I will say it one more time.
TIME IS MONEY
After You're a big girl now by the Stylistics
became a hit, Avco gave their original producers
Marty Bryant and Robert Douglass a budget for an album.
I was on those sessions and it was a disaster.
Nothing was usable and it was canned.
Thats when Avco contacted Thom Bell based on his success with the Delfonics and the rest is history.
As I said session singing is an artform and when it comes to budgets, give me professionalism any day.
I did it before and I will definitely do it again.
| By FAYETTE (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 07:54 pm: |
ELI ENUFF SAID I DON'T THINK YOU'RE UNDERSTANDING
ME.
| By Scratcher (65.238.127.90) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 09:27 pm: |
Dvdmike I pulled out my copy of the O'Jays Backstabbers album their first on Philly International and "When the World's At Peace" is on it, not the Ship Ahoy LP so my correction of myself was correct.
| By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 12:12 pm: |
Fayette:
The purpose of the group's existence is because they wanted to be singers. The Stylistics came together because of their love of singing just like many other performers.
The use of outside background singers was and still is a common practice. It's not meant to mislead - just to give you the best quality performance money can buy. Hey, I knew as a kid the Spinners didn't have female members and that didn't stop me from buying their records - I still play "Could It Be I'm Falling In Love" at full blast on my stereo. Hell, I studied classical vocal music in high school and came to the conclusion long ago after recording myself that I would make a decent live singer but a horrible studio singer because my singing voice didn't resonate well on tape.
I'm sure it may have hurt the Stylistics, Blue Magic, etc in the ego department that background singers were used on their sessions. But think of the alternative - if an entire Stylistics album sounded like "You're A Big Girl Now" would you buy it?
Kevin Goins - KevGo
| By stephanie (64.63.221.171) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 12:39 pm: |
KevGo
Im ok with a mike too but I KNOW in the studio I would suck. People have told me that I can sing but my mother said I cant and my mom doesnt lie if she says I cant sing then I believe her. I could sing in college and high school but after that I didnt sing anymore I think its something you have to keep up. IM one of those ones that would have had to have been overdubbed..
Stephanie
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:18 pm: |
I FULLY UNDERSTAND FAYETTE'S POINT...IT'S ALL ABOUT "TRUTH IN ADVERTISING"!!!...IT'S LIKE IF I WERE TO ATTEND AN ALL STAR BASKETBALL GAME BECAUSE TIM DUNCAN AND JASON KIDD WERE ON THE PROMOTIONAL POSTER...AND AFTER PAYING MY MONEY...NEITHER GUY SHOWED UP TO PLAY IN THE GAME!!!...I'D BE PRETTY PISSED OFF!!!...THAT BEING SAID...I ALSO UNDERSTAND ELI'S POINT...THAT FOR THE BEST FINISHED PRODUCT...OFTEN TIMES...STUDIO SINGERS WERE UTILIZED TO ENHANCE A RECORDING!!!...NOW...WERE THOSE "GHOST SINGERS" BROUGHT IN TO "ENHANCE" THE RECORDING...OR TO SUBSTITUTE FOR THE GUYS GETTING THE CREDIT!!!...I WOULD NOT LIKE TO ATTEND A CONCERT...WHERE THE GROUP WHO'S RECORD I BOUGHT...SOUNDED NOTHING LIKE THE FINISHED PRODUCT!!!...THE ANSWER...AS I'VE STATED BEFORE...CREDIT THOSE WHO ACTUALLY DID SING ON THE RECORDING!!!...IT'S LIKE THOSE "HARLEM GLOBETROTTERS!!!...THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TWO GROUPS OF "TROTTERS"...THE DOMESTIC "TROTTERS"...AND THE INTERNATIONAL "TROTTERS"!!!...ALL I KNOW...IS IF I PAID MY MONEY (IN THE OLD DAYS) EXPECTING TO SEE MEADOWLARK LEMON AND CURLEY NEAL DO THEIR THING...AND A BUNCH A GUYS THAT I NEVER SAW OR HEARD OF BEFORE TOOK THE FLOOR REPRESENTING THEMSELVES AS THE "HARLEM GLOBETROTTERS"...I'D BE PRETTY PISSED OFF...AND I BELIEVE THAT "PAULIE" WOULD BE TOO!!!...STU(GOTTA TROT NOW MYSELF)BASS
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:19 pm: |
PS!!!...JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS "COMMON PRACTICE"...DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT *RIGHT*!!!...STU
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:21 pm: |
PSS!!!...I'D BE A "FOOL" TO DISAGREE WITH A WOMAN ON THIS THREAD ANYWAYS!!!...STU(WANNA BE A LADIES MAN)BASS
| By SoulangelSister (68.73.167.246) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:36 pm: |
Ha-Ha-Ha STU you go boy! Thats a good angeldaddy!
| By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:39 pm: |
Stu:
So are you saying that H-D-H were wrong to use the Andantes on many Four Tops records?
Do you mean to say that Deke Richards & the Corporation should have used Jermaine & Tito as session musicians on the Jackson 5's hit records and not members of the (Jazz) Crusaders as well as Freddie Perren?
Should the Dells have said "no" to singing backup on the Players' "He'll Be Back"?
Even the Fifth Dimension's producer Bones Howe double-tracked and overdubbed the group's vocals, making them sound like the 20th Dimension!
Valerie Simpson sang on "The Onion Song" & "Good Lovin' Ain't Easy To Come By" with Marvin Gaye and the singles were credited to Marvin & Tammi Terrell. Were Ashford & Simspon wrong for doing this?
Look, the act of "musical embellishment" was done to make sure folks like you & me were getting the best performance possible for our money. I can understand the feeling of being misled and the whole truth in advertising but come on - this is entertainment. And entertainment is all about imagination, creating an illusion and a performance to take us away from the day to day grind and life's realities.
Like I said before - if the Stylistics' entire album sounded like "You're A Big Girl Now" would you have bought it?
Kevin Goins - KevGo
| By Scratcher (65.238.127.186) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:49 pm: |
"You're A Big Girl Now" was a big record in the Akron/Canton/Cleveland area. And yes, I would have purchased a whole album of that sound; the pop public that Thom Bell aimed the Stylistics at wouldn't have though. "Spell" was also huge; love the record; it's my favorite by Blue Magic. I realize their later sounds were smoother but I liked the early stuff too.
| By STUABSS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:53 pm: |
HEY KEVGO!!!...IF YOU CLEARLY READ MY LAST POST...YOU'LL SEE THAT I UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR PRODUCTION ENHANCEMENT IN SOME CASES!!!...MY ONLY POINT IS THAT THERE SHOULD BE "TRUTH IN ADVERTISING"...AND THAT SESSION MUSICIANS...BACKGROUND SINGERS...AND SURROGATE LEAD SINGERS SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND GIVEN CREDIT FOR THEIR PERFORMANCE!!!...THATS ALL I'M SAYING...AND IT HOLDS TRUE FOR HDH...AS IT DOES FOR THE "MONKEES"!!!...GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE...AND DON'T PULL THE WOOL OVER THE EYES OF AN UNSUSPECTING PUBLIC!!!...STU
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 01:57 pm: |
PS!!!...I DON'T THINK THAT BOBBY ELI...FOR EXAMPLE... WOULD BE VERY HAPPY IF...AFTER PUTTING HIS HEART AND SOUL INTO PRODUCING AN ALBUM...THAT THE GUY WHO HIRED HIM LISTED *HIMSELF* AS THE PRODUCER OF THE PROJECT (WOULD THE LAWYERS BE FAR BEHIND???...)!!!...SAME SHOULD HOLD TRUE FOR PERFORMERS!!!...STUBASS
| By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:02 pm: |
Stu:
That's why I write liner notes....somebody has to tell the real deal.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
| By Common (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 02:17 pm: |
Hey, what's wrong with the Stylistics "You're A Big Girl Now"? I like that song. :oP
Peace!
| By FAYETTE (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 03:54 pm: |
THANKS STUBASS AT LEAST SOMEBODY GETS THE
POINT,JUST LET THE PUBLIC KNOW.