By soulboy (80.0.251.19) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 03:10 pm:

i'd like to start a new thread celebrating the famous guitar backbeat, who started it? when? was the idea invented by motown? or just by accident?
Sometimes overlooked,it IS an essential element on motown records,(could you imagine it without) it's influence had an effect on rock and particularly reggae music where they call it by a different name.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 03:19 pm:

SOULBOY!!!...I GOT BROTHER BRUCE MILLER ON THIS FORUM ONCE TODAY...AND GETTING HIM BACK MAY BE TOO LARGE A TASK...BUT HE COULD PROBABLY BREAK IT DOWN BETTER THAN JUST ABOUT ANYONE!!!...IF YOU CHECK ARCHIVES UNDER THE JOE MESSINA THREAD...BRUCE EXPALINED THE INTERPLAY BETWEEN THE FUNK BROTHERS GUITARS...AND HIS POST WAS REPRINTED ON A SITE ABOUT THE FUNK BROTHERS AND JOE M SPECIFICALLY!!!...JOE MESSINA WAS THE MOTOWN GUITAR SECTION LEADER!!!...THE WAY ALL THOSE GUITARISTS THAT PLAYED AT MOTOWN INCLUDING...EDDIE WILLIS...ROBERT WHITE...DENNIS COFFEY...WAH WAH WATSON...AND OTHERS...INTERPLAYED WITH VARIOUS PARTS IS QUITE AN INTERESTING STORY!!!..."VINTAGE GUITAR" MAGAZINE ALSO DID AN INTERESTING PIECE (WITH THE "FUNKS" ON THE COVER) WHICH EXPLAINS A LOT OF WHAT YOU ARE ASKING!!!...

By girlbassplayer1961 (208.8.159.216) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

StuBass, wouldn't you think that backbeat playing was started in Jazz?

By Counterpoint (68.63.4.162) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 08:46 pm:

I could never find that issue of Vintage Guitar. It's not available in the backwoods. Could you give more specifics on where in the archives we could fin what you are talking about.

I am very much interested in this topic and would like to know much more about it.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 10:07 pm:

Girlbassplayer,
I think it is possible that the guitar back beats may have orginated when early jazz evolved into Be-Bop which put more emphasis on the 2 and the 4 of a measure. Ultimately, it did come out of jazz.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:14 pm:

GIRLBASSPLAYER!!!...I SEE WE SHARE A COMMON NAME IN PART...SO WE MAY BE MUSICALLY RELATED!!!...AS FOR MY OPINION ON BACKBEAT PLAYING...ESPECIALLY AS RELATES TO JAZZ...AND NOT CLAIMING TO BE THE EXPERT...ALL I CAN SAY IS...MANY VARIATIONS ON VARIOUS SYNCOPATIONS EVOLVED FROM JAZZ...AND THOSE ROOTS MAY COME FROM OTHER FORMS OF PRE-JAZZ MUSIC!!!...JAZZ WAS A GREAT CONTRIBUTOR TO MANY LATER FORMS OF MUSIC...AND MANY OF THOSE JAZZ TENDENCYS FOUND THEIR WAY INTO ROCK & ROLL AND SOUL MUSIC PARTICULARLY!!!...OBVIOUSLY...MANY MORE PRIMITIVE FORMS OF MUSIC LATER GET REFINED IN THAT GENRE...OR OTHERS!!!...
COUNTERPOINT!!!...THE "VINTAGE GUITAR" ISSUE I SPEAK OF IS APRIL "03" AND HAS OLD PICTURES OF SOME OF THE "FUNK BROTHERS" ON THE COVER!!!...THE ARTICLES TALK ABOUT JUST THE THINGS YOU'RE ASKING!!!...AS FOR THE THREAD HERE...JUST CHECK THE ARCHIVES FOR A THREAD ENTITLED "JOE MESSINA"!!!...BRUCE DID A POST ABOUT HALFWAY DOWN!!!...HIS POST WAS ALSO PICKED UP ON THE "FUNK BROTHERS" WEBSITE...UNDER THE "JOE MESSINA" HEADING!!!...HOPE THT HELPS!!!...STUBASS

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:30 pm:

PS TO GIRLBASSPLAYER!!!...ALSO...KEEP IN MIND THAT MANY DEDICATED JAZZ MUSICIANS STARTED PLAYING ROCK...POP...AND SOUL OUT OF ECONOMIC NECESSITY...THATS WHERE THE GIGS WERE...AND WERE BOUND TO BRING THEIR OWN MUSICAL INFLUENCE TO THE TABLE...THUS TRANSFORMING THOSE TYPES OF MUSIC!!!...A GOOD EXAMPLE IS "THE FUNK" BROTHERS...WHO WERE MOSTLY JAZZ MUSICIANS...HAND PICKED BY BERRY GORDY...AND ASKED TO LEND THEIR MUSICAL EXPERIENCES TO THIS NEW SOUND THAT WAS BEING CREATED!!!...OBVIOUSLY...THEY HAD A LARGE IMPACT...UNFORTUNATLY...UNTIL RECENTLY...UNRECOGNIZED AS WELL!!!...STU

By soulboy (80.0.251.19) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 03:49 am:

STUBASS
I did take part in the joe messina thread, and did eventually get a copy of the vintage guitar magazine. I am now more enlightened of the funk guitarists and their roles.
The conclusion i came to was that they had their specialities, but they could switch their roles in an instant. Each player seemed to be extremely adaptable. As far as the backbeat is concerned,Joe messina,Eddie Willis and Later on Dennis Coffey all took their turns.Interestingly enough in SITSOM and in the vintage guitar mazazine Joe talks about three players playing one huge backbeat. That would have been quite difficult for most players to co-ordinate!
Does anyone know if a backbeat was mandatory on motown records,or was it just up to the producer/arranger.

By Dennis Coffey (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 07:38 am:

Hello everyone. Joe Messina, Eddie Willis and myself took turns playing the backbeats at Motown. I was using a Gibson Firebird, Joe had his Fender Telecaster and Eddie went from a Firdbird to a Gibson 335. Robert had a Gibson L5 and so did Wah Wah. Their guitars were not that effective doing back beats because they didn't have that bright tone. The back beat was played usually above the 10th or 12th fret. We used down strokes and four string chords on the fourth - first strings. D-E. I don't know where the backbeat came from but they were using them at Motown when I got there. My Firebird has a sharp crisp tone that can really cut through in a back beat. You can hear me playing some backbeats on my Gibson 445 on the recent PBS special Rhythm, Love and Soul if you listen for them.

By Eli (141.151.73.11) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 09:24 am:

Eli Here!!

As a kid growing up, starting from the very early sixties I used to listen to all of those glorious Burt Bacharach produced recordings.
His records usualy featured a very tight, muted guitar "chink" that usually played the accents thusly: eighth note rest, short eighth accent on the upbeat, another eighth rest and another eighth accent on the upbeat, etc sort of a bossa nova type "chink" as on I say a little prayer by Dionne Warwick.
Records such as Any Day Now by Chuck Jackson featured the muted backbeat on two and four with just a "hint" of the root note coming through.

In Philly we adapted the "New York style chink" and took it a step further.
The first time that I played one as far as I can remember was on a session at the old Jamie Studio
where Ronnie Baker (his first session) and I were grooving on Always something there to remind me by Lou Johnson aand the producer, Bob Finiz said "yeah Bacharach, thats it thats it.
Why dont you guys try that on this tune and voila, the "Philly chink" was born.

Now Thom Bell was the ultimate Bacharach fan.
He even used to do a lot of songs that featured
different time signatures as in a Bacharach record. Some times out of the blue a bar of three and a bar of five would pop in and sometimes a bar or seven..but it always worked.
Some examples of this technique can be heared in people make the world go round, Betcha by golly wow, parts of You make me feel brand new right before the chorus.
Usually, in between these bars there would be an "off beat" chink.
By the way, the chinks were always played by me, as were the sitar leads.
Sometimes I would over dub the sitar right after thwe playback of the acceptable take and sometimes I would play in on the first go round and do the chinks after the playback, what ever felt better according to the song in its original form.
After that we all started using chinks where needed.

Then, as fate would have it we took the "chink" yet another step further and magically combined it with the 'ol Cry Baby wah wah pedal and when Disco came in, well guess what the "ricka-chickas" were born as in Dr Love by the first choice and countless others.
Turn the beat around by Vickie Sue Robinson (not us) "borrowed" heavily from this technique.

So there you have it, the evolution of the "Philly Chink" and one can only guess where it can go from here.

The

By soulboy (80.0.251.19) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 10:43 am:

in addition to the Bacharach productions,some early James brown recordings had the backbeat on(i feel good) this all seemed to be about the same era.It's wonderful that this relatively simple technique can be used to great effect,even more interesting is how the sound evolved into a more percussive type of role as Eli has explained.This sound is sometimes called 'chicken pickin' or 'chicken scratch' guitar
Were there any compressor type of devices used to control the attack/sustain of the backbeat, or was it a natural sound.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 11:27 am:

GIRLBASSPLAYER!!!...HOPE YOU'RE TAKING THIS ALL IN!!!...STUBASS

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 11:42 am:

SOULBOY!!!...THERE IS *ONE* OTHER POSSIBLE EXPLANATION OF THE INCLUSION OF A HEAVY GUITAR BACKBEAT INTO THE MOTOWN SOUND!!!...HOW ABOUT THIS!!!...BERRY GORDY ASSEMBLES ALL THESE GREAT MUSICIANS...INCLUDING THREE AWESOME GUITAR PLAYERS...LOOKS AROUND AND SAYS TO HIMSELF..."WHAT THE HELL AM I GONNA DO WITH ALL THESE GUITAR PLAYERS"???...THUS...THE MOTOWN GUITAR BACKBEAT IS BORN (NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF ALL INVENTION)!!!...STUBASS

By Lynn Bruce (68.41.107.30) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 12:19 pm:

Stubass,your right about the jazz musicians doing the rock thing for economic reasons.On a lot of Johnny& the Hurricanes sessions at Bell Sound, the famous jazz guitar man Bucky Pizzarelli would add backround to the Hurricanes tunes.
Another great musician that didn't let talent go to his head.Always respectful and willing to share his knowlege,even to a 19 year old rock drummer.
Lynn

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 12:26 pm:

FINE GUITARIST YOU MENTION IN BUCKY PIZZARELLI...LYNN!!!...YOU ARE INDEED FORTUNATE TO HAVE HAD A GUY LIKE THAT WILLING TO LET YOU PICK HIS BRAIN!!!...STU

By Chunka Funque (141.151.73.11) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 12:27 pm:

It seems that regarding the Motown thing, the snare alone was not satisfactory enough insofar as establishing that all important backbeat, so the guitar chinks and other reinforcement such as tire chains, claps etc were included for the two and four emphasis.

regarding J.B., his early recordings Its a mans world and I cried featured early guitar backbeats.

By soulboy (80.0.251.19) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 01:53 pm:

One of the things i noticed was that each guitar player seemed to have a different register in which to play. if we take i heard it thru the grapevine as an example.in the intro One guitar is playing fifth chords on the low strings.the next is playing a chord using the top string,after the intro the backbeat guitar comes in an octave higher so allthough you have three guitars they are seperated in time and in pitch, This is really clever arranging by someone. maybe the idea belonged to the guitarists themselves (Joe M perhaps) or someone like paul riser.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

SOULBOY!!!...THE VINTAGE GUITAR ARTICLE POINTS THIS OUT...AND YES...IT WAS JOE MESSINA'S IDEA... WHEN SOMEBODY CAME INTO A SESSION AND SAID THEY WANTED A THREE GUITAR BACKBEAT!!!...ACCORDING TO JOE...HE TOOK THE HIGH PART BECUASE OF HIS INSTRUMENT...EDDIE WOULD TAKE THE MIDDLE...AND ROBERT THE BOTTOM BECAUSE OF HIS INSTRUMENT!!!...STUBASS

By Dennis Coffey (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 03:07 pm:

Most of the guitars at Motown were recorded direct. I don't know if they were compressed later or not. Maybe some of the sound engineers on here like Ed or Mike would know.

By Eli (141.151.90.50) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 09:24 am:

The Philly guitars were taken both direct and live with more emphasis on the "live" element, as part of the original Philly rhythm sound was the room itself and its inherant room ambiance or "spill".
Just solo Earls drums and you will see what I mean, capice??

By Jay (24.55.210.61) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 06:31 pm:

The Bacharach back beat on "Walk On By" was especially effective.
I could never get THAT guitar sound as the notes themselves were percussive yet brite and muted!
Who was that guitar player?

In contrast, The Motown backbeat had clean chords...ie. more discernable notes.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 11:39 pm:

HAPPENED TO HEAR TYRONE DAVIS..."BABY CAN I CHANGE MY MIND" ON THE RADIO TODAY...AND IN ADDITION TO A NICE PICKING LEAD GUITAR...THE STRUMMER ON THE BACKBEAT WAS VINTAGE MOTOWN STYLE (ON THE TWO ONLY THOUGH)!!!...STU

By StingBeeLee (68.43.130.52) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:12 am:

Stubass, on "Baby can I change my mind", I've heard/read that once again, some of the Funk Brothers moonlighted on this record. True or not? KevGo was supposed to find out for me a couple of months ago, but either I didn't see his answer or he forgot! Doesn't the bass and drums sound a little like the Funks?

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 01:38 am:

HEY STINGBEE!!!...I JUST HAPPENED TO HEAR THAT TUNE TODAY...AND I ALWAYS LIKED THE LEAD GUITAR DOING A HORN LINE AND VICE VERSA...BUT TODAY...I FOCUSED ON THE STRUMMER (PROBABLY UNCONSCIOUSLY BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD)...AND HAPPENED ON THE MOTOWN LIKE GUITAR BACKBEAT!!!...THE BASS LINE TO "TURN BACK THE HANDS OF TIME" COMES TO MIND QUICKER...AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS A CLASSIC JAMERSON FEEL...BUT ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!...STU

By StingBeeLee (68.43.130.52) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 08:53 am:

Stubass!!! The guitar backbeat sounds a little like Motown, the bass line lines like Jamerson, and the drums sound like Pistol Allen, and as you know, Chicago is only a couple of hours away from Detroit. I'm not a musician, but the cymbal hits on "Can I change my Mind" sound the same as "Ain't no mountain high enough" and "Higher and Higher". PS, did you or your brother know David Reinstein, who played music at both Pasteur and Mumford?

By Eli (151.197.34.9) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 09:04 am:

Jay,
It all has to do with the type of guitar used, the action of the wrist and above all, muting the strings with the palm of your hand while stroking the strings and not letting any notes ring out.
It is not easy and it takes good coordination and a natural feel.

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 10:23 am:

HEY STINGBEE...LIKE I SAID...IT'S POSSIBLE...AND SOME MOTOWN MUSICIANS WERE KNOWN TO TRAVEL TO CHICAGO!!!...I KNEW A REINSTEIN FAMILY (WERE THEY POSSIBLY IN THE JEWLERY BUSINESS???)...BUT DON'T REMEMBER A MUSICAL CONNECTION!!!...STU

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:02 pm:

StingBass & Stu:
I was on the phone this morning with DaKar Records founder Carl Davis (who also produced Jackie Wilson's sessions on Brunswick).

For the possible exception of a few tunes by the Artistics, Carl & Sonny Sanders used James Jamerson, Richard "Pistol" Allen & Johnny Griffiths strictly on the Jackie Wilson sessions until 1968 (although Johnny went on to work with Eugene Record on several productions ER led).

The Tyrone Davis DaKar sessions that gave birth to "Can I Change My Mind" & "Turn Back The Hands Of Time" utilized Chicago-based musicians (Carl founded DaKar so that the Windy City session players could get a weekly salary as staff musicians & paid scale as union musicians). The DaKar rhythm section was made up of the following musicians:

Guitars - Daniel Reed, Billy Butler
Bass - Bernard Reed
Drums - Quinton Joseph
Piano/Organ - Floyd Morris
Saxophone/Director-Producer - Willie Henderson
Saxophone - Don Myrick
Vibes - Cliff Davis

Hopefully this answers your questions.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Scratcher (65.150.229.197) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:06 pm:

Someone stated on another thread, might have been me, that Bernard Reed played on the Tyrone Davis sessions for Dakar. Bernard's brother Danny died sometime ago but I never found out the circumstances.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:29 pm:

Hey Scratcher:
I'll be talking with Carl Davis again before I leave for Chicago next month. I can find out what happened to Danny.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:34 pm:

KEVGO!!!...REGARDLESS OF WHO THOSE GUYS WERE...THEY WERE ONE RIGHTOUS RHYTHM SECTION...ALTHOUGH THE HORNS ON THOSE TRACKS WE SPEAK OF...LEFT A LITTLE BIT TO BE DESIRED!!!...STU

By Scratcher (65.150.229.197) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:40 pm:

OK KevGo. I appreciate it. Inquire about the death of one of the Artistics too. Also, do you or anyone know the name of the publication from the sixties that had a column like section devoted to Chicago musicians and recording artists? This is where I first heard of Daniel Reed and people like Gerald Sims and Otis Leavil.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:46 pm:

Stu:
Bernard Reed was the bassist for several hits that came out of Carl Davis' production stable(s). His work can be heard on recordings by Major Lance, Walter Jackson, the Opals, the Artistics, Tyrone Davis and others.

Quinton Joseph went on to work on the Chi-lites' recordings as a session director and co-wrote "We Need Order" with Eugene Record. He later moved to Philadelphia & joined PIR's session team (he was the drummer on "Close The Door"). Bobby Eli can fill you folks in on his PIR work.

The horn sections weren't THAT bad, Stu...I kinda dug the brassiness of "Can I Change My Mind" & "Turn Back The Hands Of Time". They certainly jelled on the Chi-lites' "Stoned Out Of My Mind" & "I Found Sunshine".

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 01:13 pm:

KEVGO & SCRATCHER!!!...SURPRISE...SURPRISE...I JUST FOUND THE "BCICMM" CUT ON A COMP CD THAT I HAVE!!!...TOOK A LISTEN!!!...ONE THING THAT STANDS OUT TO ME ON THAT TRACK IS HOW SIMULTANIOUSLY "BUSY" ALL THE INSTRUMENTS ARE...ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!!...USUSALLY...THAT IS NOT A REAL FORMULA FOR SUCCESS...BUT THE TYRONE DAVIS MATERIAL SEEMS TO PULL IT OFF OK!!!...AS FOR THOSE HORNS...NO KEV...THEY'RE NOT *THAT* BAD...BUT EITHER IN THE PRODUCTION OR THE PLAYING...THEY DON'T COME OFF AS "CRISP" AS I'D LIKE TO HEAR!!!...STU

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 01:24 pm:

Stu:
Right on regarding the "busy" arrangement. That's why the song was originally designated for B-side status ("A Woman Needs To Be Loved" was the original A-side - much bluesier and grittier). But, at the last minute Carl Davis felt that the uptempo Can I Change My Mind would be better received at radio (read - pop radio)than "A Woman.." So, the change was made & the rest is history.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 01:39 pm:

THANKS FOR THE HISTORICAL INSIGHT KEV!!!...STU

By Eli (151.197.34.9) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 04:06 pm:

Great stuff Kev!!
Maybe you can get Carl to come on the forum.

As far as Quinton (Zob) is concerned, he was hired as a house drummer and as Huff's keyboard tech.
He worked only on PIR sessions alternating with Charles Collins.
He had a great "lock" on the rhythm and although not a hard drummer , he fit in just fine.
Interesting thing thing about Zob I am told is that he did a lot of the Chicago sessions while standing up!!! I have never seen him doing that on any of our sessions though.
He still works at PIR in some capacity as I saw him there several months back.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 04:11 pm:

Eli:
Yes, Quinton did do many Chicago sessions standing up at the drums.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 05:08 pm:

Scratcher:
Jesse Bolian & Aaron Floyd of the Artistics passed years ago - this according to Marvin Smith, the group's lead singer. Larry Johnson, Robert Dobyne (Marvin's predecessor) and Tommy Green (who replaced Marvin briefly in 1966) along with Marvin are still with us.

Daniel Reed died over ten years ago, but Marvin cannot remember what was the cause of death. Bernard Reed is alive and still plays with the Artistics when they reunite occasionally.

I don't recall any magazine from that time period (1960s) that covered Chicago soul music. I do know that Robert Pruter wrote a series of articles for Goldmine regarding Chicago R&B and who were the main players.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Bob Olhsson (12.93.84.217) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 08:36 pm:

The guitars at Motown were never compressed that I know of. The Motown "guitar amp" had separate outputs that came up in the control room patch bay. In 8-track days they were mixed together in an Altec mixer and recorded on track five. Because the musicians were hearing themselves out of the single amp and speaker, the dynamics of the direct guitars and bass worked together perfectly and the guitar mixes practically fell together.

Somebody told me that the backbeat guitar was Brian Holland's idea because he was never happy with the snare drum sound he got. Most of the 16 track tapes I had to mix that had a backbeat guitar were notated as having J.M. playing it. This fascinated me because of Joe's extraordinary talents being applied to what I ignorantly believed was just a simple part.

By Scratcher (65.238.172.51) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 08:55 pm:

The column I'm talking about ran in Soul Magazine or some other African-American magazine for awhile in the sixties way before Prueter's books.

Bernard Reed still works through Peter Wright at times. Robert Dobyne was a small time Motown producer/writer after the Artistics; he worked with Motown in Detroit and Los Angeles. That's all I'm gonna say about Mr. Dobyne. Aaron Floyd was a great background singer; I can't imagine the Artistics' harmony without him.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 01:32 pm:

Scratcher:
Okay...now I know what magazine you're referring to. Soul! Magazine was a music publication that covered the R&B music scene in different cities across the country. They did extensive articles on Barry White's Los Angeles-based productions and artists when he was Mustang/Bronco's A&R chief in the mid-to-late 1960s (the magazine was quoted extensively in Del-Fi's CD reissue "Boss Soul: The Genius of Barry White).
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By girlbassplayer1961 (208.8.159.196) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 01:58 pm:

STUBASS, yes I am here taking in every bit of this thread. We do have the Bass playing in common too. I have played for 33+ years and I am also a recording engineer here on the west coast. I own and operate a 24 track analog commercial facility in the bay area. I love to listen to "how" the recordings I grew up listening to, were done! This gives me a clue where it all came from!
Treena

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:05 pm:

Treena:
Have you played on any sessions in the West Coast or outside the coast?
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:27 pm:

HEY TREENA (GBP)!!!...SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE UP THERE IN TERRANA TERRITORY (MONTEREY)!!!...AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW...RALPH AND RUSS TERRANA ARE ENGINEERING VETERANS WITH MUCH MOTOWN EXPERIENCE!!!...PERHAPS YOU AND RALPH COULD HOOK UP SINCE YOU'RE IN THE SAME PART OF THE STATE!!!...STU

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:32 pm:

BY THE WAY GBP!!!...DO *YOU* HAPPEN TO KNOW THE GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION WHERE OTIS REDDING WROTE "DOCK OF THE BAY"???...I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THERE IS AN EXACT SPOT WHERE OTIS ACTUALLY SAT ON A HOUSEBOAT AND WROTE THAT SONG!!!...STU

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:46 pm:

Stu,
I didn't know that Otis lived in Sausolito. Maybe that is where the idea of the song originated.

Treena: I'd be happy to talk to you anytime about studios. Why don't you go into a little detail about yours. I have a soft spot in my heart for 24 track analog studios.

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:50 pm:

RALPH!!!...NO!!!...OTIS DID NOT LIVE IN SAUSOLITO!!!...AS LEGEND HAS IT...OTIS WAS PLAYING FILLMORE WEST...AND STAYING ON A HOUSEBOAT IN SAUSOLITO DURING THE ENGAGEMENT...WHEN WATCHING THE BAY...HE WAS STRUCK WITH THE "DOCK OF THE BAY" CONCEPT...AND WROTE THE SONG WHILE LIVING ON THAT HOUSEBOAT..."WATCHING THE SHIPS ROLL IN...AND WATCHING THEM ROLL AWAY AGAIN"!!!...OTIS IS STRICTLY DOWN SOUTH...WHERE HE PURCHASED A 300 ACRE RANCH FOR HIS FAMILY JUST PRIOR TO HIS DEATH...I BELIEVE IN THE MACON GEORGIA AREA!!!...STU

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:55 pm:

OH..OK Stu. However it does give Sausolito credibility for the idea of the song.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

Also Stu, there are many houseboats in Sausolito.

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 03:05 pm:

I KNOW RALPH!!!...IF WE COULD ONLY FIND OUT WHICH ONE!!!...HELL...IT COULD BECOME A MUSEUM OR SOMETHING!!!...BUT LEGEND HAS IT THAT OTIS FOUND THAT LOCATION VERY INSPIRING...AND UNDERSTANDABLY...LOOK WHAT CAME FROM IT...OTIS REDDINGS "SWAN SONG"!!!...I ALWAYS SAID LISTENING TO THAT SONG...THAT OTIS KNEW HE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH TIME LEFT WHEN HE WROTE IT...THAT SONG ALWAYS GAVE ME THAT FEELING...CRAZY AS IT MIGHT SOUND!!!...STU

By girlbassplayer1961 (208.8.159.197) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 05:42 pm:

As far as what I have played, I have listed some of them below. I have also worked on many of Jeff Larsons albums as a engineer/bassist/ producer. He is signed with new surf and dayfaze records.
I love analog and I do have 6 adats for my clients that prefer digital, we mix through our JH600 sony console. We have Cubase on our DAW.
I would love to "hook up with any of these fine engineers.

Genres Blues
Worked With: Brownie McGhee, The Fringe, Dora Flood John "Broadway" Tucker, Enchant, Jackie Payne
[To Top]
Dora Flood Walk a Light Year Mile (1999) Engineer
Enchant Break (2001) Recorder
The Fringe Believe (2001) Engineer
Brownie McGhee Last Great Blues Hero (2000) Producer
Brownie McGhee Omega: The Final Recordings (2000) Photography
Jackie Payne & Kenny Blue... Day in the Life of a Bluesman (1998) Engineer, Mixing
John "Broadway" Tucker Impromptu Blue (2000) Mixing
Various Artists Blues Cruise: Ten for the Highway (1997) Engineer

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:24 pm:

Nice line up GBP. I'm famliar with John " Broadway " Tucker. He appears often here in Monterey. Great act.

By Treena (208.8.159.197) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:28 pm:

Ralph he is a great guy too. Sure would be nice to have you in my studio sometime soon, I am sure you would feel right at home!
Treena