By Eli (141.151.85.235) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:08 pm:

I just want to say that I am tired, fed up and disgusted with the state of music vid-e- hos.
I am so tired of looking at women "backing that thang up" and or thoroughly distasteful "crotch shots"

Not to come off old fashioned, but there ough to be a law governing the content of these videos.
One can only imagine what kind of "auditions"
these females must perform just to be considered for a "part"

They want to portray sex as being dirty and pornographic when, in fact sex should be a beautiful experience enjoyed between two loving people.

Somebody PLEASE bring back the god old days!!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:18 pm:

I know what you mean, Bobby - I prefer to watch then on the radio ;o)

By John Lester (81.132.46.240) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:18 pm:

Hear hear

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:21 pm:

Bobby:
I hear what you're saying and all I'm gonna say is you're right as rain about this and no more. I'm tired of "sermonizing".
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Eli (141.151.85.235) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:28 pm:

This is like So Dumb and Gum whore ah!!! Dig??
Quick, hand me the salt!!! Just remind me not to look the other way!!

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:42 pm:

I know some people who went to see Beyonce Knowles' show here in Detroit last weekend as part of Ford's centennial. All the events were billed as "family friendly" and there were all sorts of little kids there, but a friend said that didn't stop Beyonce's dancers started groping each other.

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:45 pm:

YEAH!!!...I'M IN TOTAL AGREEMENT!!!...ONE MORE THING!!!...THOSE PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYERS...ALWAYS RE-ARRANGING THEIR PRIVATES...AND SCRATCHING IN ALL SORTS OF WEIRD PLACES!!!...STU(ITCHIN TO GET THIS RIGHT)BASS

By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:49 pm:

Amen Bobby,

A lot of this shit is a result of the poor music of today. You were there in the heart of some great music. Just keep using your talent as a means to bring it back to what is real. The young could learn so much from the likes of you. Please continue to share your talents with all who will listen. We could bring it back around. There is power in numbers. Bottom line is...A great hook is a great hook. Let's get rid of the shit out there and take back what should be given to the people. Peace.

By Scratcher (65.238.172.114) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:51 pm:

StuBass are you talking about Jim Thome? All the years Thome's been in the majors he can't find a cup that fits.

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:08 pm:

ONCE AGAIN...NOT TO PILE ON...BUT DIDN'T MICHAEL JACKSON POPULARIZE THIS "CROTCH GRABBING" PHENOMONON???...

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:17 pm:

SCRATCHER!!!...NOT JUST THOME...BUT THESE GUYS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR YEARS...MOST OF EM!!!...AS FAR BACK AS I CAN REMEMBER...INCLUDING MOOSE SKOWRON DURING THE WORLD SERIES BACK IN THE 60'S...JAMMING HIS FINGER UP HIS NOSE FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY TO SEE!!!...YOU'D THINK THE NEW MATERIALS IN THE UNIFORMS WOULD NOT NECESSITATE THESE KINDS OF MOVES...ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE OLD WOOL UNIFORMS COULD LEAD TO ITCHING IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES!!!...STU

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:27 pm:

In addition to the content, it is digital technology gone mad. Whilst I am at work now listening to Jimmy Reed/Brightlights,big city and sharing the experience with a friend, I do not need a video at all. However, I am sure one day, this technology will enhance our musical enjoyment.

By Scratcher (65.238.172.114) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:27 pm:

What about the constant spitting of sunflower seeds' shells in the dugout?

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:30 pm:

BETTER THAN SPITTIN TOBACCO JUICE IN THE DOUGOUT SCRATCHER!!!...THAT DOES REMIND ME THOUGH...PET PEEVE...MORONS ON THE GOLF COURSE...SPITTING THOSE SEED SHELLS ALL OVER THE PUTTING GREENS!!!...STU(OUTTA MY LINE)BASS

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:56 pm:

Eli;
I hear what you're saying about the video thing. It's REALLY bizarre seeing that stuff in person, especially out of young people.
Last summer I played an outdoor Juneteenth gig in a local park. We were the last live band (funk; psuedo jazz) and then there was a talent show with about a dozen acts between the ages of 12-20. The keyboard player I was working with was doing the sound for them ; they had pre-recorded cd's or cassettes they were singing over, so I decided to stick around and get in his way. Every male , every one, that got up to sing was getting into the "Love Man" shtick , ya know, singing about their weasels and whatnot and "oh girl, I'm gonna do ya like this and like that" and quackquackquack yatta yatta.
Every female that sang was wearing clothes that wouldn't have fit when they were six yrs old and were heavy into the 'come hither' trip. What was so strange was the whole motif of the day was 'black pride' etc and it was totally an all ages crowd - little kids ; gramps and grammaw etc. I was glad when the rappers came on- there was plenty of crotch grabbin but nobody knew WHAT the hell they were talking about.


SteveK

By AWordofCaution (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 07:58 pm:

I know one thing I WOULD'NT DO, is shake any of one them dirty 'rappers' (filthy) little hands....

Filth, is just that. FILTH.

Furthermore, there's just ain't no tellin' where 'em sucka's hands might've last been-- you see what um sayin'?

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.13.98) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 08:19 pm:

Bobby,

I'm glad 2 hear U say that...I know we did certain things at our young age, but it aint got nothing on 2days young folks...and PLEASE don't get me started on that music thing...*&^$^%&*&@%&
First of all, U can hardly dance 2 their noise they call music, N fact, they don't have any dances, or even songs about dances...There so-called music, don't tell stories, love stories, not even sad stories... all they talk about is killing, sexing or what someone is driving or wearing. Nobody falls N love anymore, no more Love N the music..aint enough Love.
We need 2 do something about that Bobby...

By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 10:16 pm:

Forgive me if I've posted this here before (the mind is the first thing to go!). On Dr. King's birthday last year, I was searching around the radio dial on my way to work. I chose the local African American owned radio station. This is a station that is still independently and privately owned and they are rightly proud of that fact; they stress positivity to the kids, but it's surely a mixed signal. Well ... here it is ... Dr. King's birthday and what is playing? Tweet, with her Missy Elliott hit about masturbation. I wondered what Dr. King would have to say about our kids being exposed to that crap on his birthday (or any other day)?

And now it's "Magic Stick" everytime I turn. Don't even get me started on that ...

By Eli (141.151.85.235) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 12:56 am:

I am so glad that you all concur with my feelings
on this subject.

One day while I was on the train coming from NYC, I saw and overheard a conversation between three "fifteenish" girls.
One of them pulled out a strip of condoms, must have been thirty or more and she loudly said that she planned to use all of them and then some on that particular weekend!!

By Nish (66.119.34.39) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 09:12 am:

I do have to completely agree with you, Eli, and everyone else here. - I think it's interesting to note that all Black music prior to this current state of affairs stood alongside some particularly important political/social principle. May not have always been evident in the lyrics, but it was always underlying.
The Spirituals - functional use as codes for the slaves seeking their freedom in addition to being songs of worship.
Gospel - pretty much the same.
Jazz - stood alongside the cultural flourishing of Black America. When I think of jazz I not only think of jazz' great maestros, but I can't help but think of the Harlem Renaissance, Lena Horne's break into Hollywood, Zora Neale Hurston, etc.
Blues - essentially telling the lament of Black life in the south at the time. It's Black America's folk music, I always say.
Doo-wop - although amateurish, it was the first time young Black inner-city America could produce art on its own terms, that in itself makes it amazing. But these guys (and a few girls) were finding their expressive voice.
Soul - Soul music is the story of the Civil Rights/Black Power Movements, integration. Black artists became political actors as well. Supremes on Sullivan - statement. Marvin Gaye and C. Mayfield's output - statement. Black men like Sam, Marvin, Smokey, the Tempts, etc. being wanted by all girls and being mimicked by all types of young men - statement.
I'll bet most of these artists in these genres never intended to be blatantly political, they didn't know that the mere act of creating relevant and timeless art is in itself a socially useful act.

My point is, Black music in the past has not only reflected the political/social landscape at the time, to some extent it has affected this landscape - POSITIVELY. And the words or message didn't need to be blatantly political for this effect to take hold. The more we move into this empty, vacuous, messageless direction with the music, the more hopeless the situation for youth will become, because without a solid popular artistic base, the message will be one that hurts, rather than one that helps. Unfortunately, these videos showcase that with frightening clarity.

By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 09:39 am:

So Let's Do Something.....Let's put our heads together and utilize all this experience available from the participants of the forum and make a change. We have great guitarist, great bass player's, great keyboardist, great vocalist and great drummers. We have industry writers, producers, engineers, etc. I will be the first to offer not only my drumming, vocals and writing abilities but also financial input to work toward creating a musical project/endeavour. I know it sounds ballsy but if any body wants to take a shot let's go. I can offer a rock solid groove foundation for anybody that's ready. You can let me know if you want to connect off line to pursue this further. I know I've had enough of todays shit and am tired of jerking around. Someone has got to do it.!

By Nish (66.119.33.170) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 10:07 am:

Dag Horse! your resolve is contagious.

Ummm... i haven't much to offer except singing and some lyrical and melody writing abilities, for what it's worth.

Maybe I can be the documentarian or something. It's always made me wonder why no one has ever tried to revive Jerry Butler's awesome concept of the songwriter's workshop to have the master's teach us young one's what music making - SERIOUS GROOVING MUSIC MAKING - is all about.

By Vonnie (141.151.71.70) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 10:35 am:

The greatest moment I remember in musical soul history was viewing The Supremes on the Ed Sullivan Show. Mary, Flo and Diana dressed in elegant gowns, they were beautiful to look at as well as the beautiful music they sang. I saw a show where Oprah discussed seeing The Supremes for the first time on the same show. She said "everyone was calling each other, because they were so proud to see Black Folks looking so elegant". All of the Motown groups were examples of elegance in their dress. The girl groups were dressed in the finest gowns and moved with a grace that even Queen Elizabeth would consider tastefully done.

The male groups were dressed elegantly in matching tuxedos or suits and their dance steps were in unison and smooth. Today the males are all dressed in whatever they feel like wearing on that particular day, there is no coordination at all.

Dance steps were pivotal in groups such as the Temptations, they were smooth, coordinated and flawless. Groups today have no smooth movements everyone does their own thing, mostly spasmic gyrations and lewd movements.

Songs were related to certain dances. If the song Hitch Hike was played, dancers would do the Hitch Hike dance. If you heard the Drifters sing Dance With Me, dancers would Cha Cha. I can't think of any dances elicited by the music or current artists of today.

As for the baseball players scratching and adjusting their cups, all I can say is if you have an itch, the natural response is to scratch it, and if your cup runneth over adjust it.

Vonnie

By drums (155.91.6.72) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 12:11 pm:

I hear you all and guess what.....

I AM DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!! This Saturday, I have put together a meet and greet in this area for people to get together and jam out a bit at Sony Music in PA.

I am extremely happy because Bobby has confirmed his appearance as well as a number of up and coming artists. We are also making a documentary DVD called

Return of the Funky Drummers Vol. 1

The 8 Unknown Drummers of Philly!!!

The same people that shot Jill Scott's concert video will be there to videotape the event and the best part is this:

NO BOOTY GIRLS!!

So if you are in the area, and want to hear some great new music get in touch with Bobby and he will give directions

Daren Metz
Sony/Studio 4

By Wonder B (80.14.145.74) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

Well, I have to say I am in total sync with you Bobby.
The fact that all these videos 'HAVE' to have those booties in the close up shots, shows how far the world has gone in the wrong direction...
But let's not forget that this was child's play compared to some of the artists of yesteryear... LOL I mean of course they didn't have no videos to show all this back then but if they could have, then it would have been something else...
Just imagine someone like BLOWFLY on video! LOL
Just checking the LP covers make you go 'damn!!!!'
And what about the famous 'stoop down baby and let your daddy see' by a famous artists... LOL
And if Donna Summer had recorded 'LOve To Love You Baby' today, what kind of video would have been shot to illustrate her moanings... LOL
Still I have to say that this 'hoe' stuff is really getting to my nerves and when they start showing those Snoop late night parties I swiftly punch another channel on the remote control...

Wonder B

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 02:15 pm:

HEY ALL!!!...I HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE BASIC CONTEXT OF THIS DISCUSSION...IN THAT...IT SEEMS THAT MANY PERFORMERS OF THE DAY FEEL THAT THEY HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE...AND SHOULD LAY IT ALL OUT THERE...ON THE LINE!!!...THIS...OF COURSE FITS IN WITH THE CULTURE OF THE DAY...SHOCK JOCKS...REALITY T.V. AND THE LIKE!!!...
WHAT WE MUST REMEMBER...HOWEVER...IS THAT DURING *OUR* DAY...ELVIS PRESLEYS PELVIS GYRATIONS WERE JUST AS DISTASTEFUL AND SHOCKING TO OUR PARENTS GENERATION AS TODAYS ARTISTS ARE TO US...AND ED SULLIVAN COULDN'T EVEN CONJURE UP THE NERVE TO SHOW THE LOWER HALF OF ELVIS'S BODY!!!... HELL...MANY OF OUR PARENTS COULDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND "THE BEATLES" HAIRCUTS...AND THOUGHT THAT HAIR LIKE THIS WOULD CORRUPT OUR SOCIETY!!!...SO I GUESS MY POINT IS...SOMETIMES WE JUST HAVE TO GULP HARD...AND LET THE PRESENT GENERATION DO THEIR THING...REALIZING THAT THEY DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND OUR CULTURE FULLY...AND WE...PROBABLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THEIRS!!!...STUBASS

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 02:32 pm:

In the spirit of classic answer records, maybe we could call for a 1 year moratorium on MTV booty shots with a record called "Pack that Thang Up".

Regards,
Ken

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.60.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

I absolutly abhor all things vulgar.

That's why I always get drunk before I shoot off my mouth.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 02:41 pm:

Folks:
I said I wasn't gonna comment anymore on this - well, I lied.

I'm with Horse - to quote James Brown: "Get On Up! Get Into It! Get Involved!" I started Libra Records because I want to serve the adult audience with real Soul/R&B music and I'm busting my hump trying to finance this venture as well as look for investors (anybody interested? ). Bobby Eli has his Friday's Child Productions and is trying to shop his stuff to the majors. Hey Bobby! - To hell with the majors! They won't look at new talent unless they have a track record either in touring or independent releases. Clay McMurray has Pree's CDs he's pushing as well, Ralph Terrana has Teddie Morrow and Dennis Coffey has a smokin' contemporary jazz album that would put the Yellowjackets & the Rippingtons to shame.

Bottom line is that we here in the Forum have the love & desire for real music so why not form some kind of support network for folks like Bobby, Clay, Ralph, Dennis & myself so that we can get this music out there to the masses. Hell, my seven year old niece wants to sell lemonade on her block to help her Uncle Kevin (her idea - not mine!).

In conclusion, gang - instead of bitching about what little clothing Li'l Kim is wearing this week on BET, let's focus on helping each other in our endeavors to change and reshape the music industry. It can be done and believe me, it will scare the wits out of the powers that be.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 02:50 pm:

Kev,
I like and agree with what you are saying. Any thoughts on how we can pull this off short of storming the majors and physically wrenching control from the idiots? ( Which to my hot tempered Italian nature has much merit) In all seriousness though I'm trying to put together this Pete Rivera thing, all the while thinking " Am I wasting my time trying to do this? " Maybe I'm just a little tired, who knows.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:07 pm:

Ralph:
No, you are NOT wasting your time with Pete or Teddie.

With kids flocking to the internet to get their music, record stores are gonna need product to sell. Adults prefer shopping for music in stores because of the "instant gratification" thang. Distribution is NOT that hard to obtain if you can show the distributor that you have a decent line of recordings you plan on releasing and your cash flow is cool (hell, one of my label bosses offered to distribute Libra Records & I'm financing this out of my own pocket!). More importantly, the RIAA have published recent findings that adults buy more music than teens and they are buying more rock music by older artists. They've also found that African-Americans have bought more music last year than in years prior (check it out on www.riaa.com). Granted, maybe commercial radio may not embrace our stuff at first but hey -send Pete Rivera on a radio interview tour and trust me the music will get played (let's not forget community radio stations as well!).

Like I said - let's support one another in getting these ventures into REAL music off the ground. They are enough of us out there who post on the Forum. I'm ready to pass around the Offering Plate (as I did as a young church deacon)for all of us to benefit if someone is willing to stand at the other side of the bench & help.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

(PS - If anyone needs someone to write liner notes for CD booklets as well as put together text for releases I offer my services in exchange for future favors!!! Bobby-Ralph-Clay-Dennis, do ya' hear me!?!)

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

Amen Kev & Ralph,

How can I reach you guys offline for further talk?

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

I hear you Kev. Sounds kinda like a Godfather thing. <:

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:14 pm:

Horse,
I can be reached at Ralph@soulfuldetroit.com

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:17 pm:

Thanks Ralph. I'll get with you in the next 24hrs.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:17 pm:

To answer Ralph's question:
Let's see....we take Ralph's Terra Shirma company, Bobby's Friday's Child, Kevin's Libra Records and anyone from Detroit who wants to participate and form a "Soulful Detroit Music Group" (note to David Miekle - this is just an example!) or RBK Music (Ralph-Bobby-Kevin). We take our rosters, put them together as one music group, create "offices" in the USA (UK involvement always welcome!)- Berkley, Philly, NYC and Detroit, develop a marketing/promotion plan,radio/video budgets (no hoochie videos!)a mission statement, business plan, budgets; find investors for this venture or raise capital ourselves(hint-hint!), form a music publishing company (gotta protect the copyrights!), apply for distribution (not that hard - I have contacts!) and launch this sucker to the sky.
This may sound facetious on the surface but it can be done.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:18 pm:

Horse:
kevingoins@juno.com is where you can reach me.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:31 pm:

Kevin,
I like the concept in theory, but there is much that would have to be worked out. I am willing to talk about this though if Bobby, Clay and others are interested in talking also.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:37 pm:

Ralph:
The emails will go out to all parties concerned by Friday morning.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By drums (155.91.6.72) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

Did anyone get my message about saturday?

Daren

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:54 pm:

Drums,

Sounds like there is going to be some serious groove happening. I wish I was in the area to catch it. You be sure to groove big time and show them what it's all about. Let them know who the unknown drummers are. There are a quite a few who need the tale to be told. I'm assuming Bobby will be there with axe in hand. Wish I could have been there to jam.

By drums (155.91.6.72) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:59 pm:

You would be a welcome addition to the DVD that I am releasing!!!

I feel the same way that most if not all of the board members do. I financed the video shoot personally and I hope that people will support it when it is released in the fall!!

Thanks
D

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:59 pm:

Kev / Ralph,

Thanks for the email info. Please include me in Fridays list. Reach me at sabrenomad@hotmail.com. As Ralph stated, a lot would need to be thought. It's a plan.

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

There are lot's of lost little sheep that need people like you guys to tell them MTV and Clear Channel are not their shepherd.Continue to try and change the "norm".We all know that today's industry has very little to do with music and more to do with product.From the CD itself to the merchandising, brand of clothes,jewelry,alcohol,vehicle,shade of skin,acceptable phrases,etc.They are using videos and even lyrics to market something far more lucritive for them than just the "artist".These are not singers,they are spokespeople for a wide assortment of not only products,but agendas as well.Kids so desperate to share the lifestyle that they see in the video's that they will sell their souls and bodies to sign on the dotted line.You could put out the finest music in theworld and it wouldn't sell because most people aren't buying music anymore,they are buying images and illusions.What kind of F**Ked up world are we in when not only is N**GER used casually in all types of songs,but people rush to defend the use of it anytime someone complains about it.It sometimes feels like we are taking steps backwards instead of forward.This "just reflecting the real world in my song" defence is crap and is part of the destruction,not construction of a better world.Sorry.Rant mode off.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 04:41 pm:

FunkyDollar:
It's all good. Thanks for the rant!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.98) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 04:57 pm:

Thaks Kev!Are you the same Mr.Goins that used to sing in a group that starts with the letter "Q"?

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 05:27 pm:

FunkyOne:
Nope....I wish I was! But no, I'm a lover of music who has turned it into a living.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By medusa9e2003 (66.73.7.204) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 09:20 pm:

This Is 4 'Horse'

Horse, I don't play any instruments, but I can sing pretty good, if I may say so myself...LOL!
(I'm not a real celebrity like U Guys R, but I can carry a tune a long ways, if U know what I mean)...hahahaha...and I love this forum and everyone here!

By Horse (68.62.85.66) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 10:44 pm:

Medusa,

I have an open ear to any individual who's trying to tell me something. All of us have knocked on may doors where no one would listen. Communication is the key to success in all facits of life. Tell It..!

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.60.46) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:03 pm:

This Damn thread started by Bobby Eli expressing his loathing for Music videos that were nothing more the a "shaking of teen aged booties."

After all, these are simply physical functions for the human body that tend to be attractive.

I suggest that all of the songs in this century, from Bing Crosby (or even back to 1900) to the present time, are about the process of sexual interaction between humans.

Music will find a new focus after the audiance gets tired of adjusting from the concepts of Queen Victoria, and on to a world where it is clear, to all, that love is beautiful, and cheap sex is crumby.

It is typical of the present outlook that this thread degenerated into a discussion of how to take over the record companies, when the original thread was about an important issue.

I worked with Berry Gordy Jr. He was the most focused, ambishus (SP?) man that I have ever met. I can tell you that he would have never have let a thread like this drift off into a new subject.

He would have shut it down! That includes Bobby Eli with his moaning about the dirty booty shaking.

If booty shaking was the norm, Berry would have made delightful art of it that would have sold records.

What's wrong with booty shaking? It is as normal as changing a baby's diaper.

Mike McLean

By stephanie (64.63.221.95) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 01:06 am:

Mike Mclean Tech
When this stuff gets off of the ground YOU are going to be the engineer!!! OK Now we can get some classical stuff in there too...I cant write music but I can write words if you want KevGo or Eli I can email you some words I have a song Im working on now that I think is good,,
Stephanie

By Tommy (64.159.100.51) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 01:29 am:

Amen Mike. How come nobody ever complains about hula dancing? If you don't like booty shakin' don't watch it.

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 06:23 am:

LOL...you see, topics like the one being discussed in this thread are the reason I keep coming back to this forum...I really can't add anything that hasn't already been said.

I love good music. I love being a part of good music, in any capacity. But as a young woman, for me to see the way a lot of today's young entertainers are being exploited to the point where, as someone already stated, "they as musicians aren't the ones being marketed, but a product, a lifestyle", I'd just as soon not even bother. I guess you could say that's why I took to playing the bass, as oppose to singing (what I've really always wanted to do). I'd rather help create real music out of the spotlight than be someone's puppet for adding to this chaos people call a music industry today.

Good luck to those of you helping to resolve the situation, Lord knows you have your work cut out for you )

By R&B (138.238.41.154) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:25 am:

YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD ELI,I'M NOBODY'S PRUDE BUT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BACKGROUND DANCERS AND WOMEN JUST PUTTING ON A SEX SHOW,IT'S DISGRACEFUL TO WOMEN IN GENERAL AND ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMEN,EVEN MY 12YR OLD DAUGHTER DOESN'T LIKE IT,AND SHE'S AS MUCH A RAP FAN AS THE NEXT KID.

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:44 am:

Mike McLean,

No body is talking about taking over the major labels and what you label as dirt is simply a discussion regarding the possibility of creating an alternate musical product which would shed some positive light to indiviuals who are not being musically fulfilled. The fact that big business is craming shit down our throats and dictating what we are suppose to like as music doesn't mean we have to accept it. I myself am simply opting to take a shot at creating music with a great groove and hook that tugs at the heart everytime you hear it. Isn't that what Motown did? I believe it can be accomplished and believe there is a definite market for it. It's not like chlorine bleach, 1 formula under 10 different names like the current shit for music thrown at us day after day, video after video. You were very fortunate to be part of creating a great musical era. I'll just about bet you put your best foot forward when doing your thing because that's what moved you. Bottom line was the end product. With all the talent and experience here, I KNOW there's is something great to offer. Too many followers and not leaders have brought us to the current bullshit status the music is in today. I know as a drummer, it takes quite a bit to move me and if I'm on my groove and feeling great, I know the house is rocking. The proof is on the floor. and when a 3 year knows the hook to your song, you are on the right track to moving people. I don't need a big ass booty in my face via video to convince me that the song is good. This train is about to leave the station. Peace

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:50 am:

Mike,
You're missing the whole point. Berry would have done exactly what we would like to do. Change thngs. That's what he did years ago. And his concept was to make music to be proud of. He did that also. So I think you are not seeing how a thread dedicated to the abuse of " booty ", and very negatively so, is evolving into something much more positive and uplifting by focusing on the problems and exploring the possibilities of change. Rather Berry Gordy-ish I think.

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:54 am:

Well Stated Ralph..!

By girlbassplayer1961 (208.8.159.215) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:55 am:

Motown produced the most classy acts of all time, Marvin Gaye always looked so clean cut and handsome, his voice sold the songs forget his looks!!! I must say its nice to hear and read all these posts regarding the inappropriate use of sex to sell music!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 10:02 am:

My mother is 83 years old. she compares what she sees in todays music to Motown. In her words, " Motown artists showed class ". She always liked the way they looked on stage. So well dressed and polished. Yeah mom, you're right. They had class.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 11:08 am:

Hey Gang:
Let's not all get on Mike McLean's case. He may have misunderstood what we've been saying so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

I will say this, though - the reason why I tossed the hat in the ring and asked certain others to rise to the challenge relates to what Mike mentioned in his post. Instead of bitching about the image of the industry (which has been done before in Forum posts too many to mention), get up off your a-- and do something about it. I had a meeting with a music manager who represents new & upcoming artists. These talented folks are clean-cut, classy and can sing their tails off (they write good material, too). Her artists were influenced by the soul legends of the past and want to continue in that tradition, which is why we're teaming up.

Ralph has Teddie Morrow who I hear is a great singer. Bobby Eli has a production stable of fine talent (lay off the hip-hop artists, Bobby - you're much too talented for that genre!)and Horse (from what I hear) is a talented drummer with great ears. I feel that with the combined years of experience from these and other Forum members we can, to paraphrase Berry Gordy from his autobiography - CREATE the music by guiding new and legendary talent, SELL the music to the adult audience who have outgrown their hoochie stage and COLLECT monies so that everyone gets paid!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 12:50 pm:

HEY STU,ABOUT THAT CROTCH GRABBIN,OL PETER SAYS THAT BACK IN THE BUNNY HOPPIN DAYS,DRUNKEN RABBITS WOULD GRAD THEIR COTTONTAILS TURN AND SPIT CARROTJUICE ALL OVER THE CABBAGE PATCH FLOOR,AND THEN START CHASIN AFTER THE GIRL BUNNIES,SO SEE IT AIN'T JUST USE HUMANS!

By Eli (151.197.64.135) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 01:06 pm:

RB..
Its no wonder!!
All these clowns do is screw like rabbits and go on and rip off the government collecting money for their welfare babies and either "smoke up the profits" or buy sneakers for themselves.
I have seen it first hand so many times and it is a travesty.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 01:20 pm:

Hey Bobby!
I need to talk to you! Look out for an email later on this weekend!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Eli (151.197.64.135) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 01:43 pm:

RE: My last post, I was only speaking the truth!!

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 02:35 pm:

No need to pull punches Bobby. Tell It Like It Is.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 02:38 pm:

Hey Horse!
Did you get my email! I gotta jet to a meeting but I'll check my emails later for a response from you.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 04:09 pm:

KevGo,

Can't get to my personal mail from here. Will check tonight and respond.

By M.McLeanTech (66.159.206.111) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 07:25 pm:

Holy cow!

1. It is clear that strict church on Sunday is less fun then shaking booty.

2. I first started watching the popular music scene in 1947. I remember when Johnny Ray caused a wild outrage with his 1952 hit "Cry." This was because it had some raw emotion:

If-A-Your-Heartaches seem to.....hang around.....too Long-A-Long.....

What was wrong with this?

3. In the 19th century, folks depended on the church to set moral standards for their children. There was no TV, Etc. These standards change slowly. Each generation learns a little bit from their parents. In my case, in the fifties, the moral game was be nice, don't go all the way, and go steady. You could have a lot of fun, parked in lover's lane with the feedom that was left from that set of rules.

4. The basis of morality for the church was to prevent the creation of children that would not be will cared for. After all, if we screw and the woman has a baby and dumps it in a trash bag, and it is recovered by a tramp, there is a possibility that resentful feelings will cause the child to grow up to be a killer.

5. The invention of the birth control pill caused everything to change.

I could go on and on, but what is the use. We are frozen in time. Everybody is hopelessly frozen in the present stage of evolution of the perception, by the public, of what is proper and normal about sex.

Some day, in a way a bit like we hear about in the "Scandanavian (SP) countries," we will learn to be actually hip and sophisticated (SP?) about this sort of thing.

My point is that music was long ago sold down the river to the highest bidder. The teens drove the charts from 1955 on. Now, the art of popular music is almost bankrupt.

No matter. Just as the stock market recovered from the great depression, I say that popular music will return, better then ever, for the young professionals that need the same fresh fun that classic popular music has always provided.

I would like to suggest that frank speaking about "taboo" subjects, where tasteful, will be the norm in the new art.

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 07:28 pm:

Tasteful being the operative word here Mikie.

By Sue (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 07:33 pm:

Twelve-year-old (or younger) girls wearing next-to-nothing in the classroom, and "humping" boys on the dancefloor isn't sophisticated, it's as Bobby said, making sex out to be nasty and pornographic, instead of beautiful.

I don't think that's what the Scandinavian countries are all about, either.

By M.McLeanTech (66.159.206.111) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 08:06 pm:

Sue,

How would you like to be arrested for nursing your baby.

Is that tasteful?

A properly taught teenager will go to a "HOP" and, because they are properly taught, do all this stuff that is as "awful" as Johnny Ray was in 1952, and it will be all right.

It always kills me the way that animals, if left alone, take care of their sex urges with almost no problems (see an animal doctor: I am so drunk that I can't think of the proper name) yet we humans argue endlessly about the simple act of being in heaven.

Some day we all will be in heaven.

Mike McLean

PS: VENTRILOQUIST! THAT WAS IT! HE SPEAKS TO THE ANIMALS LIKE DR. DOOLETTLE! NO, IT WAS A TAXIDERMIST! NO! IT WAS STU! NO! IT WAS VETERANIAN!

AND ANOTHER THING TOO! STU!

I feel that love should be the common denominator between all who have contributited to this forum. I mean this sincerely. Now for another drink!

Mike McLean

PPS: I have been trying to tone it down. I hate to offend people. It is just that you are such easy pickings. You think like cows. Do you realize what a bunch of fools you are, as you slobber over this forum?

You flood in, and next thing you know, the forum looks like the old homes in the pre-civil war "old south."

I remember the "Old Forum" when instead of silly games, we had folks like Bob DeOrleans making posts.

What happened to Ed Wolfrum's cause? I know that I wanted to try to make something out of that issue, as far as the merits of the CD soundtrack of SITSOM was concerned.

Ralph smuggly dumped that forum into the trash basket of being something that could hurt the success of the film.

Politically incorrect.

Now where are we?

All the hip people have exited. I know how they feel. I exited also.

We now have nothing left but the new bunch. They will rise from the mists, and I will be waiting for them.

Now that I have learned to type, wait until you see how I talk them into being fans of classical music.

Your friend,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (66.159.206.111) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 08:10 pm:

Bobby Eli,

I am sick of moralizing! Yet! I know how you feel.

Please forgive me for forgeting that you introduced me to beautiful Annie.

Mike McLean

By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 02:28 am:

I hope some day that at least a few of the "new" bunch will be able to earn your respect Mike.It will be my life's work from here on out.Sorry we couldn't all be here at the start and aren't all deep enough for you.Guide us please.Oldie-One you're my only hope!

By new kid on the block (141.151.73.11) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 12:06 pm:

Mike, my brother do I have to put you over my knee and give you a spanking? Why in the heck would you expound on unrelated topics? Reading your post was like reading the musings of an alien from Mars. I am a very learned person but I have no clue for what your point or reasoning is for your particular post.

You need to leave the bottle alone and concentrate on perserving your realtionship with that Annie Lady. I respect the fact that you helped shape the music scene of yesterday but today is another day and we need people to guide us in a positive and productful way. Maybe some of the old crew don't check in anymore because they are embarassed by your tirades.

A New kid on the block

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 12:33 pm:

Mike. Some food for thought from a new kid on the block.

By paulie3shoes (141.151.90.50) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 09:20 am:

now dont get me rong,(over here)i luv me sum nocked out broads, get my drift, but its even too much for ol' paulie (over here)
i don know whuts rong wit da yout' of today
i mean, dey aint got no, ummmm how you say it, ummmm yeah dats it morals.
give me a classy dame any day as long as she gets me a beer evry now an den, capice??@#$%^&*()_

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 04:27 am:

Hi Mike

Having used some of Bob d'Orleans material for the GW story, I know for a fact that he was only around for three of four weeks.

Thanks to all who contribute to the forum because YOU are keeping the site alive.