By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:47 pm: |
On WDAS-FM's website, Patti Jackson mentioned in her 411 column that there will be a Sounds of Philly concert at Penn's Landing on July 5 -- with Jean Carne, McFadden and Whitehead, etc. And it will be a salute to Gamble and Huff. Does anybody have any info on this?
By PhillySoul (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:49 pm: |
Linda...It will be a salute to G&H....
By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:57 pm: |
I plead the fifth!!!
By Ian W (194.75.128.2) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 07:26 am: |
Great symphony Bobby, I'll plead the ninth then!
By Eli (151.197.123.83) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:29 am: |
Cool Ian...I like that!!!
In my case , the "fifth" is the fifth ammendment to the constitution whereby one refuses to answer due to fear of incrimination!!!!
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:54 am: |
C'mon, Bobby! Tell us how you really feel!
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By Eli (151.197.123.83) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:58 am: |
I'll give 'em a salute all right!!!!
By stephanie (64.63.221.243) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:18 pm: |
Can someone help the ignorant here which is me?
Which one Gamble or Huff is in the ministry now and do they still get royalties? I read somewhere one of them wants nothing to do with the music business is that true?
Stephanie
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:25 pm: |
Stephanie:
Minister Kenneth Gamble converted to the Muslim faith many years ago. He rarely speaks about his music, being that is focused on using his royalties and monies he raises to build housing for the disadvantaged, community centers and mosques within Philadelphia.
Bobby Eli & Weldon MacDougal can shed more light on this.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By Eli (141.151.79.28) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:35 pm: |
Brother Lucman(as he is now known) although we do not address him as such, is doing something positive(for a change).
He is using his (and everyone elses) royalties and other peoples money to build through his company, Universal Properties, low income housing and other institutions. Who are the REAL beneficiaries
I do not know, but I am sure that there are some underlying motives which are not so philanthropical. Capice?????
By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:21 pm: |
Thanks for the enlightenment. I never knew that Gamble and/or Huff were such scoundrels. I still LOVE the music (no day is complete without it) -- so I will still honor folks like Mr. Eli and Mr. McDougal who made the music. Along with my favorites -- The Sweethearts. I'm in touch with Carla and am going to ask her if she'd visit the forum.
By Eli (141.151.79.28) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:46 pm: |
Linda.. It has got nothing do do with the music as they were masters at their craft( with more than a little help from our little band)
They paid our group well because in all honesty they needed us.
When it came to paying the artists and writers, well that was a different story.
Teddy was the only one who got anything close to an honest accounting.
Even us, MFSB saw very few royalty statements.
I think I remember just two.
As I had said, musically they were great but as buisinessmen they were dishonest aand then some.
When Little Sonny of the Intruders was on his last leg, kenny was his only hope but he was flatly turned down and several days later he commited suicide.
There have been many instances where help was needed but to no avail.
Thom Bell was the only one who was a real human being and he stood alone in his convictions.
He wants nothing to do with them either.
But at the end of the day, I was happy to have been a part of such a MUSICAL legacy.
By DF (24.90.11.4) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:39 pm: |
Eli,
One of the things I admire about studio cats like yourself and the cats at Motown and Philly is the complete lack of ill will directed at your former bosses, Berry Gordy and/or Gamble and Huff. You indicated that you were still happy to be a part of such a musical legacy (yes, I do know you capitalized "musical").
Watching the documentary on the Funks, I saw the same lack of ill will towards Berry Gordy, even though Motown 1) instituted illegal moonlighting rules; 2) put them on clock 24-7 (aren't there union rules now regarding maximum work hours?); and 3) left them without notice. And I'm sure there are more!
I know that some of the practices that went on have been very troubling (to a lot of cats in the 60s and 70s studio scene). But what is remarkable is the fact that you guys were still glad you were there. That shows a lot of character. For that, I am impressed. Peace.
By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:30 pm: |
Billy Paul won his case against G&H and he got $500,000 for royalites not paid since 1994. I read that Billy said they still owe him $27,000 for last year alone
By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:35 pm: |
Karma's a b*tch. All those that could have been helped and weren't, and all those mistreated ... the universe will even it out.
By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:16 am: |
I had the sneaking suspicion while watching SITSOM that there may have been things said about Berry,but not put in the movie as he allowed for the use of the music in the film.However the one thing about all of these great musicians is that they are all paid PROFESSIONALS and act accordingly.
By Ian W (194.75.129.2) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 08:19 am: |
Hey Bobby, re. pleading! After watching lots of American TV cops series and films - especially 60s and 70s, we British Philly & Detroit fans probably know more about your legal system than our own. As our own comedian Frankie Howard once said, "I'm a miserable pleader"! LOL!
By Eli (141.151.83.102) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 08:40 am: |
Yes, as I have stated I couldnt have asked to have been placed in a better "musical stew" that the one that was cooking in Philly in its heyday.
G&H&B were just one ingredient and a fraction of the total recipe.
There was Norman Harris , Ronnie Baker, Vince Montana,Richie Rome, Stan Watson, Bunny Sigler, Phil Hurtt,Dave Crawford, Van Mc Coy and myself and ahost otherswho each had their own distinct musical ingredient indigenous to that "stew"
We did not have a "conveyor belt" approach to the way we worked. If a song took one hour or one day to record than so be it.
We were about quality not quantity.
Unfortunately there were some with less than perfect business tactics as there were in most of the "regional" recording centers.
But we as "studio cats" did O.K.
By RD (63.188.33.238) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:18 am: |
The busy studio musicians did well in the '60s, they were the backbone; it was the recording artists who got screwed; and at Philly Int'l the songwriters as well. I posted some time ago about a friend who refused to sign long term after interning for two or three months w/partner at Philly Int'l because the terms were so insulting. They might have went for it if they lived in Philly but they both resided in Cleveland and couldn't live on $75 a week, and no royalties for two years, in Philadelphia.
By Eli (141.151.83.102) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:33 am: |
Kenny learned the "business" from Jerry Ross who was a known thief so apparantly it rubbed off.
But in Jerry's case he screwed the musicians as well!!
By DF (208.27.111.121) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:22 am: |
Is it really true that in studio circles, the singers/artists are the low end of the totem pole in the music industry? Is that why they get screwed?
Barry White touched on this in his autobiography, explaining his reluctance to come up front (and, instead, stay in the background as a studio writer and arranger). He changed his mind because he was persuaded (I believe by Gene Page) that he, the Maestro himself, was the only one who could sing his songs. And the world has been blessed by his decision. Peace.
By Scratcher (65.238.127.195) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:40 am: |
Seemingly singers to record company execs are like fullbacks and tight ends in Madden's Football Franchise Mode--insignificant; you can have a fullback or Tight End with a 99 rating and the games intelligence values him less than a offensive linemen with a 75 rating.
By Eli (141.151.83.102) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 11:01 am: |
The only people that the "artists' are important to are the "artists" themselves.
To the record companies they are nothing but "pieces of product" and a catalog number.
The might as well be refrigerators or television sets.
Fortunately, we the consumers think otherwise but the downside is that we contribute to the "artists" massive egos.
In most cases, the publishers and writers get paid first notwithstanding any advances that may have been paid to the writers.
The "artists" have a ton of recoupabable items in their contracts some of wich are holdovers from the "tin pan aley days".
The are tons of illegal clauses that one must lok out for and remove, whenever possible.
Most novice performers know nothing about these clauses and are happy just to hear their song on the radio.
By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:07 pm: |
I found this quote somewhere on a discussion board (could it have been this one??) on the internet. I copied it because it has a unique perspective of the music business. I hope it really isn't this bad, but guess I wouldn't be surprised.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
--Hunter S. Thompson