By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:24 am:

I READ THAT PETE BEST THE ORIGINAL DRUMMER FOR THE BEATLES OR THE OUARRYMEN AS THEY WERE KNOWN AT ONE TIME,IS WRITING A BOOK ABOUT HIS TIME WITH THEM AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE FLATTERING!ANY IMPUT ON THIS?

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:54 am:

Pete was never thrilled with being cut out of the Beatles. I can imagine why. However, the truth of the matter was he simply was not that good of a drummer.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:12 am:

OHHHHH!!!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:20 am:

R&B:
Pete Best was the Beatles drummer from the time they were formed as the Quarrymen until 1962. When Brian Epstein took over managing the Beatles the trio of John-Paul-George wanted drummer Richard "Ringo Starr" Starkey (who was in the band Johnny & the Hurricanes) to join the group because Pete Best wasn't playing up to par with the band and Richard was a much better drummer. Pete was then dropped from the Beatles and replaced with Ringo.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:23 am:

SO IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS CLAIM THAT HE DISTRACTED WOMEN FROM THE OTHERS?

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:31 am:

There was reportedly also the small matter of Pete's popularity with the group's female following, which - it was thought - deflected attention from Paul and John. Ringo was considered less "competition" in the good-looks department. There were scuffles at several of Ringo's debut gigs with the Beatles (known as the "Pete Best Riots") and on the first photo-session with the new line-up, George had to try and conceal a black eye he'd suffered during one such "riot".

Much of Pete's resentment stemmed from the way he was dismissed - by Brian Epstein. The group passed on the task to him, being unable to bring themselves to face him personally with the bad news.

By the way, Ringo played with Rory Storm & the Hurricanes, (I'm sure that's what you meant, Kevin) and was well-known to the boys already. Both groups had played together at the Star-Club in Hamburg, and Ringo (aka Ritchie) had sat in with the group on a couple of occasions when Pete was unwell.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:36 am:

Thanks, Ritchie - my mind was on the blink about the Hurricanes.
You're right on about Pete's resentment. Brian reportedly felt that John/Paul/George should have told Pete themselves that he was out but took the task upon himself because the rest of the group felt that it was Brian's job to do the dirty work. Not many fans were thrilled with the change in drummer but soon got over it.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By stephanie (64.63.221.99) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:42 am:

Pete
Must want to make some money because in limited interviews he spoke about the Beatles but he NEVER capitalized on them so my props go out to him. He could have been paid major money to talk about them....
Stephanie

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:43 am:

R&B - I think Pete Best put out a book already. It's not very long. I read it in under 2 hours at Border's Books a few years ago.

If you listen to Pete Best's recordings on Anthology 1, everyone will come to the same conclusion: Ringo was a better drummer than Pete.

In retrospect I wouldn't feel sorry for Pete Best...no one ever tried to shoot him, stab him, threaten to kidnap his children, etc. Plus, he did actually have a big payday in the mid-90's for appearing on the Anthology 1 album.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:13 pm:

ACTUALLY..."THE BEATLES" WENT THROUGH SEVERAL DRUMMERS BEFORE RINGO TOOK OVER...INCLUDING TOMMY MOORE AND NORMAN CHAPMAN...IN ADDITION TO PETE BEST!!!...STUBASS

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:34 pm:

I would suggest that his US-only album (whose misleading title "BEST OF THE BEATLES" was printed in large type, and the artist credit "the Pete Best Combo" in very small type) constitutes something of an attempt to capitalise on the Beatle connection...

By the way, I've never heard of Tommy Moore and Norman Chapman. Where do those names come from?

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:41 pm:

PS - let's not forget about the OTHER "other Beatle" - Stu Sutcliffe.

By FrankM (81.152.61.89) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:47 pm:

Paul Mccartney had invited Pete Best to the Liverpool concert on Sunday but any coverage went to his settlement of the row with Yoko over Lennon/McCartney or McCartney/Lennon.

Polydor got Bernard "Pretty" Purdie to overdub Pete Best's drums on the US issue of the Bert Kamfert sessions that produced Aint She Sweet.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 01:09 pm:

RITCHIE: A BRIEF BIT OF "BEATLES" HISTORY!!!...IN THE MID 50'S...PAUL MCCARTNEY JOINED JOHN LENNONS BAND..."THE QUARREYMEN"...FOR WHAT WOULD BECOME THE FORERUNNER TO THE "FAB FOUR"...LATER CHANGING THEIR NAME TO THE "SILVER BEATLES"...THEN "THE BEATLES" AROUND 1960!!!...JOHN AND PAUL WERE THE GUITARISTS WITH STU (NOT STUBASS) ON BASS...AND THEY USED SEVERAL DRUMMERS INCLUDING MOORE AND CHAPMAN...BEFORE SETTLING ON PETE BEST!!!...WITH THE DEATH OF STU...THE JOINING UP OF A 13 YEAR OLD HARRISON...AND MCCARTNEYS SWITCH TO BASS...THE BEATLES EMERGED!!!...WHILE BEST CLAIMS HE WAS DUMPED BECAUSE HE WAS SCAMMING ALL THE WOMEN....BRIAN EPSTEIN WANTED A BETTER DRUMMER...AND WAS THE ONE LEFT TO GIVE PETE THE "ZIGGY"!!!...ACTUALLY...SEVERAL RIOTS BROKE OUT OVER BEST'S DISMISSAL...INCLUDING ONE THAT LEFT ONE OF THE BANDMEMBERS WITH A HUGE BLACK EYE...COVERED UP FOR A PUBLICITY PHOTO!!!...HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION!!!...STU

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 01:30 pm:

Sorry, Stu - I thought you meant those guys fitted in between Pete and Ringo!

From the very early Quarrymen days, there was also Colin Hanton, drummer between 1957 and 1959. Prior to choosing the name "Quarrymen", the group were known as "the Black Jacks", whose occasional tea-chest bass player Ian Vaughan earned his place in history by introducing John Lennon and Pete Shotton to Paul McCartney!

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 01:47 pm:

Speaking of "Stu" and "bass". I was surprised when watching the Beatles Anthology on video how little they talked about original bassist Stuart Sutcliffe. He was a close friend of Lennon's, but not much of a musician. He quit the band to study art in 1961, and he died of a brain hemmorrhage in the spring of 1962.

Regards,
Ken

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 01:54 pm:

GLAD WE GOT THAT STRAIGHTENED OUT RITCHIE!!!...TO ALL BEATLE HISTORY ENTHUSIASTS...THERE WAS A FILM PUT OUT BACK IN THE EARLY 90'S TITLED..."BACKBEAT" WHICH GIVES A LOT OF HISTORY...INCLUDING THE BEATLES FORAYS INTO GERMANY...AND A LOT OF THE STU SUTCLIFFE STORY!!!...STU(THE OTHER ONE)BASS

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

It is interesting about Ringo Starr. When the Beatles were hitting all over the world, he was much maligned as a drummer. And there were even rumors that George Martin replaced some of his drumming on some of the Beatles songs. However, over the years there seems to be some revisionism. I have heard several highly esteemed drummers say that they thought Ringo was a great drummer and that they find it difficult to duplicate his playing style. Now discuss...LOL!!!!

By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

Ringo had his very unique way of shuffleing the 8th notes on his hi-hats that was very evident if you watched his right hand. The right hand had a sweeping motion back and forth or side to side with a loose hi-hat that created a unique groove. I have found if you emulate the right hand motion you can capture a bit of Ringo's groove. Ringo IS a great drummer just like Charlie Watts and Stevie Wonder. They are all unique in the sense of their groove. The closest Stevie Wonder sounding drummer would have to be Raymond Pounds. Just give a listen to 70's Stevie. In fact, can anyone on the forum share any backgroung on Raymond?

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

My only reservation about Ringo was sometimes I wish he'd been a little lighter on the ride cymbal. It must make noise-reducing the Beatles' masters a real headache!

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:47 pm:

WHO WAS A BETTER DRUMMER AT THE TIME...RINGO OR PETE???...TONY SHERIDAN...THE BIGGEST STAR IN HAMBURG GERMANY AT THE TIME THE BEATLES USED TO PLAY THERE...AND USED TO SHARE THE STAGE WITH THE BEATLES RECALLS THAT...HE USED TO SCREAM AT BOTH OF THEM FOR MISSING A BACKBEAT...ALTHOUGH RINGO HAD MORE DESIRE TO BECOME A GOOD DRUMMER!!!...ALSO...RINGO WAS JUST A BETTER "FIT" WITH THE BAND...BOTH ON AND OFF STAGE!!!...STUBASS

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:51 pm:

Ritchie:
That's why Sir George Martin oversaw the remastering of the Beatles' catalog...If anyone was gonna make sure the music sounded right (even Ringo's crash cymbal) he'd be the right man.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Mark (69.0.8.15) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:54 pm:

I may be off on this, but the way I remember it was that once Pete and the others got into the studio, George Martin, or whomever succeeded him, didn't like how Best played and recommended replacing him. They all knew Ringo from the club circuit, and he was supposedly the best drummer around, and got the gig.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:06 pm:

Ringo is a left handed guy playing drums in a right handed manner. His dominant hand is hitting the snare. The end result is his unique playing style.

Likewise, Paul McCartney plays drums in the same manner (right-handed) as Ringo.

According to The Beatles Complete Recording Sessions, Ringo played drums on the majority of Beatles songs. Here are the exceptions:

Paul- Back In the USSR, Dear Prudence, Ballad Of John & Yoko & and possibly Martha My Dear

Andy White (Studio Drummer) - Single of Love Me Do/P.S. I Love You

I think the Hamburg Star Club Recordings display the power & appeal of Ringo in a club setting.

Other would be Beatles: According to the book The Beatles Gear (sorry I don't have it next to me), a British piano player sat in with the band for a couple of weeks in Hamburg in the spring of 1962. Brian Epstein (the Beatles manager) offered him a position in the band. Needless to say he turned Brian down.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:18 pm:

Roy Young reportedly played with the Beatles in Hamburg.

By Herman the German (217.14.178.76) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:16 pm:

Mein Gott Vitchie,
you are just Wunda-ba!!!
Ve must meet von day,Ja'
is vis gut!
Guten Tag Mein Herr.

Baron Von Ven Some(click of the heels)

By Manfred Von Richthofen (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:30 pm:

Achtung! Rauchen verboten!
Mein Hund hat keine Nase.
Ich bin ein Flugzeug.

By Caleb (171.75.84.153) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 07:21 pm:

Went to a drum clinic and saw Bernard Purdie.He said Ringo didn't play on any of the Beatles records.That there were 3 drummers that played on all of their tracks.He said he played on 21 of them,Gary Chester played on alot and didn't say who the third drummer was.Wonder if there's any validity to this.

By FrankM (81.152.61.71) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 07:36 pm:

There's none what so ever Caleb. Capitol did a lot of work on their versions of the early albums but I have not seen any evidence that Ringo's drumming was replaced or over dubbed. Dig out the capitol abums and play them against the CD's. The differences are minor.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 07:37 pm:

And presumably, Carol Kaye played bass?

By Caleb (171.75.81.34) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:15 pm:

I think though there were some at the end that had Gary Chester on them.Sergeant Pepper album which had some almost intregate drum work on there,one tune in particular,I can't remember the title now.I would say that it's very possible that there was someone else playing drums on some of those records towards the end.

By FrankM (81.152.61.71) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 01:10 pm:

Here's an excerpt from Max Weinberg's book "The Big Beat" where he interviewed Bernard Purdie:

MW: You played on the Beatles' tracks?
BP: Twenty-one of them.
MW: Do you remember which ones?
BP: Ummmhmmm.
MW: Which ones?
BP: That's information I don't disclose.
MW: Why won't you name the tracks?
BP: Because, if I need that information to get me some money, then I'll
have what's necessary. I also played on songs by the Animals, the
Monkees--
MW: Everyone knows the Monkees were a fabricated band, but the Beatles--
BP: Ringo never played on anything
MW: Ringo never played on anything?
BP: Not the early Beatles stuff.

Anyway, Weinberg takes him to task on it and the up shot is that he says Brian Epstein was the one who arranged it and also paid him off to keep his mouth shut. I had the opportunity to talk to Max Weinberg about Purdie's claim and his reply was that he felt embarrassed for him.

In Ringo's chapter in the same book, Weinberg bring up Purdies claim and Ringo's reply is:

"Well then, what was I doing in the studio? I've heard that rubbish before. Everyone was expecting me to come out and fight it. You don't bother fighting that shit."

Thanks to Bill Larsen

FrankM

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 01:16 pm:

How unfortunate that Mr Epstein is no longer around to corroborate his claim ;o)

By Caleb (171.75.80.201) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 01:39 pm:

Thank you for that post Frank-confirmed what I heard there.It didn't sit well as being truth.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:58 pm:

Frank is correct about the Capitol albums. They really added a bunch of reverb and echo to the tracks as that was the style of the day. It took me years to realize(When the CD came out) that "I Call Your Name" didn't have an organ on the track just a heavily reverbed guitar.

Caleb - I believe that Ringo would overdub additional drum parts to sweeten the song.
Examples: And Your Bird Can Sing (Hi Hat), Hey Bulldog (Extra snare hits), You Won't See Me (Hi Hat), & Lady Madonna.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

There's no reference to any Beatles involvement on the Gary Chester website...

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 02:35 pm:

Mannfred:

Achtung! Rauchen verboten!
Mein Hund hat keine Nase.
Ich bin ein Flugzeug.

Pay attention, Smoking is forbidden
My dog has no nose
I am an airplane.

What does this mean? Did I miss something?

By Herman the German (217.14.178.3) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 02:38 pm:

Ja
das ist correct.
mein gott Vitchee
wor ist?
baron von ven some.(viv monacle Ja)

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 01:09 pm:

YEAH,AND HAPPY VOLTSWAGONS TO YOU TOO BUDDY!

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 01:14 pm:

OH FARFETNUGEN!!!...YAVOL HERR COMANDANTE!!!...SHTUBASS

By Kaiser Willy IV (209.69.165.10) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 11:47 pm:

Mein Gott, more Germans, no doubt salivating at the thought of pouring syrup on their hasenpfeffer.

By Von Zeppelin (217.14.178.18) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 03:42 am:

Vun-Da-Ba!!!!!!!!!!
Apfel Korn
all avound to my Leider Hosen
thigh slapping Comrades Ja!!!!!!

Baron Von Straussenburger.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 11:41 am:

AN I'LL TOP THAT OFF WITH A HAPPY BARON VON FRANKENSTEIN OR FRANKENSTEEN!HEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEHE!!

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 11:52 am:

HOW IN THE WORLD DID THIS THREAD GO FROM PETE BEST AND STUART SUTTCLIFFE...TO... "SIGFRIED AND ROY"???...

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 12:01 pm:

On the subject of those "Beatles" tracks that Bernard Purdie says he played on. I've always suspected that the tracks he's talking about are those German recorded ones that Atco issued as a cash-in album - can't remember the album title but the single was "Ain't She Sweet".

I'll admit I've never heard these tracks - and have no great desire to do so - but it would make sense if you take into account the fact that Purdie was doing lots of R&B sessions in NY at the time (64) - he must've been known to Jerry Wexler and Ahmet Ertegun. My guess is that when they heard the tapes they thought "We can't issue
them like this" and got Purdie to do new drum tracks.

I don't believe for a minute that Purdie's on any of the Parlophone / Capitol era tracks - he never mentions titles to mislead people into assuming he means the hits.


Davie

By dashing dasch-hund (217.14.178.38) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

StuBass
You Scwein-Hund.
Vis is all Vundaba-Ja,
StuBass, Ja,Ja.
gut StuBass.
guten-tagge.

Velcom R&B,
Vos ist this R&B??????????
Explanen ist you pleasen Ja.

passen mein tankard of fine hops.
and meinen schnapps dumkopf.

Cheers mein komrades.

Berlin Dieter
who reads the meters.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 12:24 pm:

OH S*&$!!!...HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!...

By Steve LItos (209.100.86.4) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 01:46 pm:

Davie - "My Bonnie" which is Tony Sheridan backed by the Beatles is a pretty spirited song! Sheridan was an Elvis wannabe who really didn't sound too much like Elvis! However he has a pretty good voice. Sheridan also played a mean guitar solo and George H. handles the fills while Sheridan sings.