By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 09:36 am: |
Any clues on this one? I just acquired a compilation CD of Detroit/related sixties tracks and one intriguing item is "The Burger Song" by the Shy Guys. Lyrically it's a dedication to Scott Reagan, and I have no further info - writer credit or label of origin. Anyone have any ideas?
By Keith Rylatt (217.137.90.36) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 09:54 am: |
Ritchie. Before I got my head tested, I used to collect ANYTHING Detroit and do recall having a couple of things on Palmer by them BUT I've just checked a Palmer listing and your track isn't there. There are quite a few gaps on the listing, could this be one of them or even a previously unissued job? There was also a group with the same name who backed Dave Banyase on the Solid Rock label, also out of Detroit. I have heard a few things from Scott's shows and guests constantly refer to `Scott Burger` etc. I always assumed `burger` was a reference to the large headphones on his bonse! Keith
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 10:04 am: |
Well, Keith - it's a bit of an oddity - the rhythm is a 12-string guitar, with electric lead and drums. Nice beat group -type harmonies. Short of transcribing the lyrics, there's not much more I can tell you!
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 10:16 am: |
Apart from this - it appears to have an alternate title: "We Gotta Go".
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 10:53 am: |
I don't think it's actually on Palmer - it's
on Burger but has a Palmer number (5005)
I'll check this letter but I'm pretty sure that's right.
The Shy Guys were a local garage band who had a few more singles but it gets confusing as there
seem to be two other groups called the Shy Guys
recording around the same time.
Davie
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:02 am: |
Ritchie,
I should have mentioned that "We Gotta Go" was the
original song. It's a similar situation to the
Edwin Starr "Scott's On Swingers" single.
Davie
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:06 am: |
Ah, Davie - that figures. There's little or no mention of "We Gotta Go" in the Burger version, as far as I can tell. Having played it about four times, I suspect it's the kind of record people might have tired of rather quickly ;o)
And, I just realised who the intro reminds me of - the Seekers!
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:24 am: |
Ritchie, you've probably played it more times than anybody else :-)
Davie
By mhc (172.167.76.64) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:33 am: |
I know the record that you're describing. The Shy Guys had a local (Detroit-area) hit in '65-'66 called "We Gotta Go", and it's a nice little Folk-Rock deal. "The Burger Song" is "We Gotta Go" with lyrics in tribute to Scott Regen of WKNR, whose on-air nickname was "Scottyburger". Maybe you've heard, or heard of, Edwin Starr's Regen-tribute version of "S.O.S. (Stop Her On Sight") called "S.O.S. (Scott's On Swingers)". The Shy Guys' and Edwin Starr's are the only Regen-tribute records that I remember, but there may have been others..
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:58 am: |
Hi Marshall
Thanks! I reckoned it was about '66, by the sound of it, so thank you for the confirmation. Oh, and Edwin's Scott's On Swingers is definitely well-known over here. (No prizes for guessing which Scotty tribute gets my vote!) ;o)
By Joe Moorehouse (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 12:12 pm: |
We Gotta Go was a big hit in Detroit--it went top 15 in late spring or early summer of '66. The Burger Song was pressed in very limited quantities, but there are still a few about. Davie is right that there are several other unrelated groups named the Shy Guys--the one that comes up most frequently is on Shamley, which is not a Detroit record. Keith, I believe the group on the Dave Banyase 45 is Sum Guys, not the Shy Guys.
By SteveS (68.41.246.95) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 12:23 pm: |
The Shy Guys were out of Oak Park High School, also the home of Don Fagenson and David Weiss (Was / Not Was) and Doug Feiger (the Knack). We Gotta Go was a big local hit in the Keener days, and the Shy Guys' success, although short-lived, inspired many Detroit garage bands.
By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 04:52 pm: |
If memory serves, the Burger Song was also used as an advertising gimmick by a local greasy burger joint (Nelson's)where I worked for a few months until they figured out I was 'enhancing' the blended chilli recipe with leftover meats etc...
And Steve S is quite right, the Shy Guys played some very local gigs while at OPHS. I don't recall them having any other 'food' titles.
By SteveS (68.41.246.95) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 05:08 pm: |
Jim,
I can only come up with the names of two Shy Guys, Marty Lewis and Mike Finn. Who were the others?
And what exactly was the "etc." enhancement?
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 06:50 pm: |
Rusted Chrome has a bit of a biography, along with a where are they now.
Ron Lefko, lead
Stu Howard, rythem
Marty Lewis, bass
Mark Finn, drums
The song was played during the Keener Weekend, and I believe is on the CD segment that discusses the Burger Club. Somewhere in the dim and distant part of my memory, I remember a Bob Seger Regen tribute, but I may (probably) be wrong.
By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 07:01 pm: |
If only I could find my OPHS yearbook...I think it had info about the Shy Guys. Was it Steve Blum on drums? And Lee, or Leo, Fortin on guitar?
Well, at Nelson's (which was located on 9 mile at Coolidge)...there were numerous 'health code' violations, it seemed the inspectors were in every week. They would inspect samples of prepared foods and once they found but couldn't identify shreds of a leafy plant in the Chilli.
But I quickly gave up on the mission to elevate the consciousness of my fellow citizens.
There were also a higher than acceptable number of rodent hairs, droppings, etc in the burgers.
I don't remember Nelson's being closed for these violations but the management started to keep a close eye on the food preparers, especially those with long hair.
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 07:36 pm: |
Surprisingly enough, there's no mention of all this in the song ;o)
By SteveS (68.41.246.95) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 09:28 pm: |
Douglas,
There's trouble in paradise! My exhaustive research has yielded data that conflicts with your rusted chrome information - Stuart Hirschfield was a member of the Shy Guys, not Stu Howard.
Is there a music historian in the house?
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 10:49 pm: |
Hmm Stu Howard of the Moe and Curly Howards, perhaps?
The Shy Guys cut "The Burger Song" for Scotty Regen. This isn't exactly obscure Detroit radio lore, for those outside of Detroit: Scott was the most popular dj for a few years here, in '66-68.
The Edwin Starr "Scott's on Swingers" and the Shy Guys' re-do of "We Gotta Go" were just two of many songs that were recut for Regen and Keener, Scotty burned me a CD that has a lot of the others on it. I'll listen for a quick reminder and post them.
The tag "Burger Club" came about because a kid called up Scotty one time and called him "Scott burger," told him all the kids were saying that. They weren't at my school, not until it started up on Keener anyway. So Scott started the Burger Club, complete with identification cards and everything. He got to know the Shy Guys pretty well and tapped them to do a theme song for him ...
Then again, maybe I won't post it, I get the feeling I'm doing research for somebody's book.
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 10:49 pm: |
Kidding!
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
...Or maybe not!
By Scott W. (66.177.66.117) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:23 pm: |
Scott Regen was a phoenominon in Detroit. He grew up in New York listening to William B. Williams and cut his teeth in the Tampa Bay area, before moving to WFUN in Miami. Just prior to Keener, he was working in Kansas City as Rock Robbins. He picked Scott Regen out of the phone book after the Keener brass thought that Rock Robbins sounded too much like Robin Seymour, another Detroit radio star who had recently left WKNR. Scotty had a knack for connecting with both his audience and the artists. He was a regular at Motown and actually has a couple of writing credits there under his real name, Robert Bernstein. We Gotta Go (retitled Scott Regen Show and better known as the Burger Song) and Scott On Swingers (Stop Her On Sight) were the two most famous custom cuts done for Keener. Stevie Wonder did an impromptu custom live on the air for Scott when he premiered Uptight on WKNR.
Customs were common place in the late 60s and Keener had a slew of them. The Beach Boys, Mitch Ryder and the Grass Roots all did special versions of their hits for WKNR. The station had a special connection with the Beatles and the Monkees, too. But thats off topic.
For the complete WKNR story and air checks of Scott Regen, visit www.keener13.com.
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:32 pm: |
Oh, and Stu Howard and Stu Hirshfield were the same person.....
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:41 pm: |
Scott W is Scott Westerman, curator of the Keener 13 site and fellow Spartan.
A "custom" -- that's the radio term I was struggling to remember. I well remember the Grass Roots' custom that they did for Keener.
And Stevie Wonder also "taught" Scotty Regen how to sing one memorable night on WKNR ....
By HW (68.37.216.164) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 11:45 pm: |
BTW - Scott Regen was a registered Jobete songwriter and Motown producer. A few tracks he wrote and/or released - like Billy, Come On Back As Quick As You Can by Gladys Knight & The Pips - are under his stage name. He produced the group Magic, and as most know wrote liner notes for a couple of Motown albums.
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 07:06 am: |
Sue - I only posed the question to glean some background to an interesting track I just acquired. Don't worry - I have no plans to author a book about burgers in Detroit ;o)
By Keith Rylatt (217.137.88.41) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 07:53 am: |
Sue Hope you were kidding, I am in the final throws of a book called `This Is Motor Town` and I rely on all of you guys for info. after all the UK is a long way from Detroit. I have promised David M all of my research, after publication, for use on the site, if he thinks fit. Re info on Scott, John Lester met and spoke to Scott quite recently and also I can highly recommend `Rockin` Down The Dial` by David Carson published by Momentum Books, that and the Keener 13 Web site are packed with info on this fascinating topic. Keith
By VIc Doucette (68.73.23.82) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 09:06 am: |
Must agree that Carson's book is wonderful, as is the Keener Web site. Hey, Scott (not "Burger," but "Huggybear") -- any chance of a repeat of the Keener weekend for the Dream Cruise?
And I wish I could find my 45 rpm copy of "Wing Nuts," by Astigafa ...
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 09:09 am: |
Scott....
....a question about the Grass Roots custom. Those singers over the open were done by a commercial jingle house without the clearence of either the record company or the Grass Roots, weren't they? I remember vaguely a lawsuit over them......
By Sue (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 09:52 am: |
Yes I know the Keener website guys, Carson's book, and Scotty himself quite well, Keith.
By Russegal (165.247.217.142) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 10:13 pm: |
OK.. wasn't Scott Regan also known as "Wooly Burger" on KNR??? I do recall the "Shy Guys"..mostly because my dad knew Ron Lefko's parents due to an orchestra they all played in.
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 10:41 pm: |
Hi Russegal,
Actually, the "Woolie-Burger" was a Gary Stevens 'staple' he had associated with his (energetic) antics while at WKNR, mostly during 'drive time' hours... that was during much of 1964, and right up thru the early part of 1965, before leaving "Keener" that year for a major radio stint in New York City, on (the legendary) radio station WMCA, as it was back then, better known as the "home of the good guys."
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 10:54 pm: |
Hey, Scott W!
As far as I can recall, this is the very first time I had read one of your threads on this soulfuldetroit forum. Hope to read more of your input as only your time would actually permit.
Nevertheless, we extend you a most welcome on this site my friend!
By HarchOhio (65.60.146.21) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 11:57 pm: |
Scott W. addresses the Keener Custom phenomenon in depth on the most recent update of keener13.com !
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.15) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 02:02 am: |
The Shy Guys
were
Mark Finn on drums and vocals.
Stu Howard on guitar and vocals.
Ron Nelson on lead guitar and vocals.
Marty Lewis on Bs and vocals.
played together for about 3 years from 1965 to 1967.
opened for
Dave Clark 5 and Sam the Sham and the phaaroahs in Detroit around 1966.
Recorded
Burger Song on Burger records no.5004.
Lay it on the line/we gotta go on Palmer no.5005.
also recorded the above on the Panik Label no.5111.
A love so true/where you belong on Palmer no.5008.
Without you/feel a whole lot better on the Canusa record label no.503.
Thats what I know about them etc.
any errors my apologies.
Mel(big 1/2 pounder)
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 04:30 am: |
Mel((today it was big 1/2 pounder),
Thank you for your added researched input on the local Detroit teenage band (as they were back then, in 1966) who pride themselves as... the Shy Guys!
They-- I believe they hailed from Oak Park High?
Another brief local band sensation around that time-frame were the 'TIDAL WAVES' who had a *BIG* WKNR "Keener" hit in the early part of 1966, titled "Farmer John", which appeared on the same record label as that of another local band sensation at that particular time who called themselves the 'UNRELATED SEGMENTS' (I understand that both these bands were from Grosse Pointe High at the time), and they had a *BIG* "Keener" hit in 1966 as well, a totally 'enerized', frenzy of a hit called, "STORY OF MY LIFE."
Also I might add in brief, another local band in Detroit was making the waves around town months earlier, in late 1965, with their *BIG* WKNR "Keener" smash hit by the 'UNDERDOGS', with their song titled, "THE MAN IN THE GLASS", released on the local HIDEOUT record label, of that which ultimately produced a younger BOB SEGER into Detroit prominatant lore (and this was in the early part of 1966) just the same. BOB SEGER & The Last Herd, had their first *BIG* Detroit record hit as it was titled, "EAST SIDE STORY", which was released on the same (local) HIDEOUT record label as well.
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.39) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 04:48 am: |
Hey Jim,
always good to see your postings,
sorry to hear about your little bout of illness recently mate.
I hope you are now fit and well again,
take it easy Jim.
your uk buddy
mel(andthensome)
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 03:55 pm: |
Mel,
The Shy Guys on Canusa are one of the other groups called the Shy Guys - possibly from
Connecticut, East Coast anyway.
For completeness sake
The Shy Guys on UNI and Shamley appear to be the same group.
There's another later (68) Shy Guys on M-U,
they're from Florida
There's an earlier Shy Guys group on Trump (in '59) who were produced by Norman Petty.
So that's (at the latest count) five different groups of Shy Guys
Davie
By mhc (172.146.158.113) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 04:02 pm: |
Actually, I remember seeing the "We Gotta Go" Shy Guys doing a very bad version of "I'll Feel a Whole Lot Better" on the Robin Seymour show, so I think that the Canusa record is them also..
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 06:31 pm: |
Thank you, Mel!
My 'soulful' good friend... way over there, across the way--
Like the song title (by that '70s group who bore the name CHICAGO) would aptly imply, let it be known I'm "Feeling Stronger Every Day", yup... and you 'betcha!
By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 09:45 pm: |
mhc, are you sure that it was the Shy Guys doing I'll Feel a Whole Lot Better on Swingin' Time, and not The Four of Us? The latter group recorded it for Hideout and did appear on that show. But of course it's entirely possible that more than one local group covered it.
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 04:31 am: |
"Hello Scotty my old friend,
I've come to talk to you again... "
I recall hearing that little WKNR promo when it was cut by Simon & Garfunkel ("Sounds Of Silence") for the "Scott Regen Show", on "Keener 13" in early 1966.
There were many other artists who cut these little Scott Regen 'promos' for his show on WKNR as well, including the Beatles and the Supremes....
Scotty Regen... YOU were MY FAVORITE Detroit Disc Jockey in the 1960s-- period!
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:20 am: |
For what it's worth....
.....interesting discussion. Norton Records has a CD with The Underdogs, Doug Brown and the Omens, The Four Of Us (I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better), the Pleasure Seekers, and others called "Friday At The Hideout--Boss Detroit Garage 1964-1967", including copeous liner notes on the scene at the time, and the history of Hideout Records.
Besides, a friend of mine thinks he's on one of the cover photos.....
By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:24 am: |
Yeah and that's me on the cover trying to sneak in with a fake I.D.
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:53 am: |
I've got it in front of me. Which picture, Sue?
By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 11:03 am: |
Kidding, Doug.
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 11:16 am: |
As an aside....
.....taken from the view of a white suburban kid, this discussion is fasinating. There's a whole parallel universe in the Detroit music scene that almost makes me wish someone would start a "Non-Soulful Detroit" site.....
By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 11:33 am: |
Doug --
I can't separate the two -- soulful or non -- because for me it all was one vast, very cool music scene that cross-pollinated. I know you see it as more separate than I do -- but I was and am a huge soul/R&B/Motown fan, and I was able to do that in my little parallel universe because that's what pop radio played.
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 04:36 pm: |
Douglasm,
The particular above CD you had made good reference to, do you know whether that HIDEOUT CD is currently available at this time?
And also, is the above aforementioned song title "The Man In The Glass" by the 'UNDERDOGS, by any chance is that cut listed on the CD as well?
By the way, while we're on some discussion on local Detroit/Michigan garage 'bands' of the mid-1960s, who could ever forget the 'sound' that came out of Flint... with 'Terry Knight & The Pack', or the 'Scott Richard Case', and of course, what about Ann Arbor's very own, who went by the name... the 'Rationals'?
I use to just love hearing these numbers by 'Terry Knight & The Pack'... "I Who Have Nothing"; "Better Man Than I"; "There's A Change On The Way"; all three were *BIG* WKNR hits, beginning in late 1965, and thru the early part of 1966.
Of course, eventually Terry Knight (who, was also a disc Jockey on CKLW in 1964) left 'The Pack' for personal ambitions, and even went on to eventually manage the interests of the 'Rolling Stones', this was in 1968, and in 1969.
In the meantime, 'The Pack' was beginning to succumb into local obscurity and eventually faded away as they went nowhere, with Terry having left. This was after doing several (regional local) hits, and just two albums on Flint's own LUCKY ELEVEN records, and of course, while Terry Knight WAS with the band.
But as fate would only have it-- by late 1967, Terry Knight had walked away from the very band he had created... but the 'Pack' would re-emerge to much GREATER fame during the 1970s, under the band's new name... 'GRAND FUNK RAILROAD'.
And that my friend, as they would say, the rest is history....
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.122) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 05:55 pm: |
Jim,
I have read all about everything you state
and have had material on the scene you refer to in Detroit for quite a while now.
Anyway,
I also have a lot of the various indie Labels that were around at that time,and a hell of a lot to.
And I am referring to all the local labels and none to do with Motown.
To get to my question Jim,
I have a good few artists and 45s etc on the
Prophonics Record Label
which I am told is a country and western style type of label.
But theres 1 on that label
that was the biggest and rarest sound for a while called
'I dont like to lose'
by The Group
with Cecil Washington.
Prophonics no.2029.
This 45 is just so good.
Everything about it screams Rare Soul Dancer.
I saw a copy a good 5 years ago,
anyway can you give me any info regards the 45 and the Label please.
Cecil is known to me and the group
just so/so.
The 45 was covered up for about 2 years in the late 70s early 80s I think.
maybe later.
Still a rare as rocking horse sh..e.
Many thanks Jim.
Mel(can hear that horn and brass section slowly building up to that huge creschendo before blowing the windows and roof apart as the dancers are going hell for leather to keep with it)
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 09:46 pm: |
Jim....
....apparently it still is. I checked at www.nortonrecords.com and it is listed in their online catalogue. I got it without any problem last year here in Wenatchee, WA. from the local record chain.
Here's the cut list
1) UNDERDOGS--Friday At The Hideout (Judy Be Mine)
2) DOUG BROWN AND THE OMENS--TGIF
3) FOUR OF US--I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better
4) PLEASURE SEEKERS--What A Way To Die
5) UNDERDOGS--Don't Pretend
6) T.R. AND THE YARDSMEN--I Tried
7) UNDERDOGS--The Man In The Glass
8) HENCHMEN--Livin'
9) DOUG BROWN AND THE OMENS--Youth And Experience
10) UNDERDOGS--Get Down On Your Knees
11) PLEASURE SEEKERS--Never Thought You'd Leave Me
12) FOUR OF US--You're Gonna Be Mine
13) UNDERDOGS--Little Girl
14) TORQUAYS--Shake A Tail Feather
15) HENCHMEN--Please Tell Me
16) MUSHROOMS--Burned
17) UNDERDOGS--Suprise Suprise
18) FOUR OF US--Baby Blue
19) FOUR OF US--Batman
20) DOUG BROWN AND THE OMENS--Northwest Lounge radio spot
21) FUGITIVES--Friday At The Hideout
Bring back any memories?
There's also a 26 page booklet that basically delenates the history of both the Hideout and the early Hideout Records releases. The pictures are fantastic, and it's worth the purchase. Norton Records #287.
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:12 pm: |
Also...
...somewhere here I have a Terry Knight and the Pack greatest hits package that Alen Klein released on Lucky 11.
Terry went solo, releasing at least 2 singles on Capitol (saw him once at the Chessmate) before embarking on his "Grand Funk" era.
Sue....
.....I tend to see them as separate but equal, but that's due to the presentation. I spent a lot of time in Punch Andrew's teen clubs when I was growing up, not to mention places like the Royal Oak Farmers Market, the Kimball ice rink, and other venues where the acts tended to be "white" rock. In Midland, where I went to college, the local club catered exclusively to "white" teens, so after Dave Schafer stopped doing shows at Riverside Rec, I saw very little live soul, and by the time I got down to the real world at Eastern, the "progressive" movement was in full force, with me riding along with it.
BUT radio (and especially Keener, not to forget my parents an their love of WDTM) exposed me to many varieties of music, and that diversity has stayed with me and nurtured me and helped guide me and my tastes for the past 35 or 40 years. I cherish that diversity, and feel sorry for the kids of today who, due to marketing, hear nothing that would expand their cultural horison.
By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
Doug,
That wasn't my experience -- the Motown acts played the State Fair, the Fox, the Roostertail, and a lot of us saw them in those venues, either with parents or - for the older ones -- on their own and with friends.
We didn't dance to the Underdogs, we danced to James Brown, Stax and Motown at parties -- it was more fun! And while the "white" rock was what our friends and classmates were playing in bands, a lot of it doesn't age well; it's the soul, R&B and Motown that still sounds good.
By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 11:00 pm: |
Midland -- say no more! I went to State, where I spent four years dancing to Sly and the Family Stone, Temptations, all the good stuff.
By Bigjime (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 02:27 am: |
Jim,
Regarding Terry Knight and Grand Funk Railroad:
In 1968 I saw Terry alone on Swingin' Time performing a SONG called Grand Funk Railroad! So there was a song with that name before The Pack changed their name to GFR.
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 04:45 am: |
Hi Bigjime!
[ClearChannel Communications],
Well you certainly ought to know, you were right there spending 'time' along with "Swingin' Time" in 1968-- the CKLW Channel 9 television studios were within the same complex as that of the (now legendary) CKLW radio in Windsor, Ontario... and you were there as 'Big Jim' Edwards on 'THE BIG 8" at the time... starting in 1967!
It's has been awhile, but it's good to hear from you again, this time on this 'soulfuldetroit' forum, and we welcome you, and... stay right here with us!
"...And now, ladies and gentleman, Big Jim Edwards" ....
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:52 am: |
Sue....
....let's agree to disagree on our origins, but we both got here somehow, and it's the different backrounds and tastes of the participants that make this place so interesting.....
Jim....
.....Hope the information helps. Norton also catalogues a couple of other Detroit garage band CD's, including the Iguanas and the Hesitations, not to mention a large collection of Northwest (as in Pacific) early rock. I've got to get their Wailer's CD.
By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 09:45 am: |
Doug,
It's not a disagreement on origins, it's different origins. Your experience is your experience ...it just wasn't mine, or those of my friends who grew up in the 'burbs.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 09:59 am: |
Welcome to the forum Big Jim.
By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:56 am: |
Is that the real Big Jim Edwards?
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 01:10 pm: |
Mel, Prophonics wasn't actually based in Detroit.
It was from Mount Morris - but I'm not sure exactly where that is - out in the suburbs probably.
Prophonics was really a one-shot name for the
Cecil Washington record, the label's real name
was Coconut Groove. Most of the releases I've heard of, there's about a dozen, look like
they're by rock bands rather than country singers.
Davie
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 01:17 pm: |
Douglas,
There's more Terry Knight solo singles - there's two, I think, on Cameo and another two or three
on Capitol. The ones I've heard are pretty awful wimp-pop like "Lizbeth Peach", then there's one
about Paul McCartney called "Saint Paul" - haven't heard it and am in no hurry to do so.
If you're interested in Terry Knight's history there was a huge interview with him in "Discoveries" about two years ago. Well worth reading if you can find a copy. Let's just say he is less than complimentary about Mark Farner.
Davie
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 01:20 pm: |
BigJimE,
You're right about the band being named after
the Terry Knight song - as far as I know it
didn't make it to vinyl unless it was part of a
shelved album he did for Cameo.
Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum.
Davie
By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 01:23 pm: |
Davie,
Mark Farner returns the compliment to Terry -- in spades.
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 01:35 pm: |
Sue - shouldn't that be "with a spade" ? LOL
Davie
By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 01:47 pm: |
Terry was in the witness protection program for a while -- not sure if he still is.
By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 01:49 pm: |
Davie, Prophonics wasn't a one-shot label for Cecil Washington--there are a bunch of releases on it, mostly country, but some garage (including the good and expensive James T. and the Workers 45).
Terry Knight's St. Paul single is a bizarre exploitation piece, featuring plenty of weird effects and a chorus singing "Hey Paul" to the tune of Hey Jude. It clocks in at 5:05 or so if I remember right, which is about four minutes too long. But it got local play when it was released, and I liked it enough then to buy it.
I think his best records are his first Lucky Eleven single (I've Been Told b/w How Much More) which is a legit garage piece, and This Precious Time, which is a perfect take on the P.F. Sloan song. Better Man Than I, Numbers, and Come Home Baby all have things to recommend them, too. But yeah, Lizbeth Peach is dreck, as are several other of his most heinous tear-jerkers. I think of him as a poor man's Kim Fowley--always ready to take advantage of whatever trend looked lucrative, no matter how silly.
Suffice to say he became extremely wealthy as manager of GFR, and the bitterness between he and Farner runs deep.
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 02:00 pm: |
Hi Joe, thanks for your input about Prophonics
- that was written from memory - I should've checked first. I'll check my listings later but
I've a feeling that Prophonics catalogue numbers fill in the "missing" numbers inCoconutGrooves'listing (or is it vice versa ?) - I'll check anyway ..
I agree with you about the first Terry Knight and
the Pack single - when I finally got to hear it
I was pleasantly surprised about how good it was
- I really wasn't expecting too much of it as all
I'd heard by him were a few of the later solo
singles.
The poor man's Kim Fowley ? - I know what you're saying but I just bet Kim wishes he had Terry's
bank account :-)
Davie
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 03:26 pm: |
Davie....
....Mount Morris is just north of Flint. And I agree with you about Terry's singles. I believe he did "Mud", the Michael Flanders/Donald Schwann song, an overproduced piece of eerrrrgghhh in his hands. The sad part was that as a solo performer, he wasn't that bad.
By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 07:50 pm: |
Douglasm,
Thank you for adding more to the HIDEOUT CD, you previously had mentioned. I will see to that I myself, will obtain a copy of that one.
Mel(it was a big 1/2 pounder on tuesday, so what was it today),
Mt brother, you got me stuck 'dead' on the Prophonics record label, geez...that one was to no avail, completely foreign to me!
I was glad to see Davie Gordon add you some imput on that one, and I hope that was something 'new', which Dave might have added in regards to your own query above....
By Bigjime (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:01 pm: |
Jim,
Sorry about the case of mistaken identity, but I'm not the Big Jim Edwards of CKLW fame. I started in radio 25 years ago in my hometown of Ann Arbor, and even though my middle name is Edward I didn't want to use that name to avoid any confusion with the former Big 8 jock. Many years later, a program director in Grand Rapids convinced me to use the name there...and believe it or not, the Big Jim Edwards you remember (who's real last name isn't Edwards) was working in G.R. then too, managing another station! I was told he was flattered that I was using his old on-air name, which I was glad to hear.
By Russegal (165.247.215.57) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:50 pm: |
Jim,
There is yet another early Detroit garage rock CD put out on "Hideout" records by Dave Leone who co-owned the Hideouts with Punch Andrews. I got this a few years ago but as there is no date on the liner notes I don't know how far back this was made. I assume that Dave was still alive when it was released. Anyway this one has alot of early Seger including such rare and notable cuts as "Ballad of The Yellow Berets" and "Sock it to Me Santa" where he puts down a pretty damn good Mitch Ryder riff...I imagine it's still available...I don't remember where I got it...
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:14 pm: |
Russegal....
....do you have a label and number for your Hideout collection?
I know "Sock It To Me Santa" has been released by Alan Klein to CD. I have it on an otherwise boring Christmas collection.
By russegal (165.247.211.50) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 11:10 pm: |
Doug..
There is no identifying number on the CD whatsoever....but I did a search on Google and came up with: http://www.psychotronic.com/ioam/hideout_records.htm
perhaps you may be able to get it from there...Good Luck!!!!
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:33 pm: |
Fasinating. Thank you.